Hello fellow reverse engineers.
I have been following this forum, watching the videos, and pondering how the TPU works. I think it is an authentic freedom energy device.
I consider myself very much a novice in electronics, but maybe my conjectures could shed some new light on the "guess what answer I am thinking of" game we are all trying to play here with SM. Please, pardon any major electronics dumb statements I make that reveal my inexperience in this field. I hope my thoughts are not too disorganized and hard to follow, also.
I would like to start by commenting about the "rotating magnetic field" mystery. I have been thinking a lot about that. What I think is happening is SM has set up sets of inductive coils that are oriented in two, possibly three different directions. On his small device there is the collector coil, which is wrapped around the circumference of the main circle. I think he has wrapped the collector coil around the circumference several times, but since the wire strands are packed in with no kind of wrapping orientation (the strands are not wrapped side by side along a core or hollow tube), the magnetic flux lines look like they would be for a single strand. However, he has augmented the collector coil with other vertical coils, which seem to be wrapped around metal cores (and on which he placed the magnets in one video). These windings could be extensions of the collector coil and connected in series with it and each other. The input coils are oriented in such a way that their flux lines are 90 degrees to the output coil and vertical coils. Again, I think the collector coil is somehow wired in series with the vertical coils. Other sets of coils, which I don't see in any of the pictures could be oriented as if the windings were wrapping around imaginary wheel spokes.
I also think this device is harnessing and augmenting the radiant energy surges that come from very quick, high voltage pulses. I remember Bedini or Tesla or Bearden saying that the more resistance across the voltage spike, the more electrons that piles up on the negative side of the circuit being excited. The trick is to let the electrons pile up and then switch them into the circuit without destroying the dipole . The inductive coils seem to be perfect for this. The voltage spike hits the input coil, the high inductive reactance resists electron flow and then as the magnetic field builds and collapses, the electrons move. I think he has all of the coils attached to capacitors to create resonant tank circuits. Also, I think he might have a diode in series with the capacitors of the tank circuits so that the current can only flow in one direction (maybe not, though). No current is ever allowed to flow when the pulse hits the coil. The kick hits a back-emf wall when it occurs, pulls in the radiant energy current surge, and then lets the current flow in the input coil when the induced magnetic field is building and decaying. With the current flowing in the input coil, its magnetic flux induces a current and flux in the collector coil. Using the flux created in the collector coil is one of the secrets, I think.
I also think he is using a small battery in all the devices to run the pulse control circuitry. I imagine there are a few 555 ic's that are driving some kind of fast, high voltage mosfet driver to make 1 to 4 sets of very fast, short on-time pulses, which are harmonics of each other. I would suggest doing pulse ratios that are in the Fibonacci series or each pulse being the previous pulse times phi. However, the pulses may be tuned to a chord, like a major chord - root, fifth, octave, tenth (just a thought). He has written about striking the right chord, correct? I also think he has a solid state diode/cap circuit to step up the voltage from the battery for the pulses. I remember reading about how to do this using diodes, caps, and pulses - it is basic stuff, which I don't know how to do yet.
When the fast, high voltage kick hits the first input coil and inducing current, its flux lines build and cut through the collector coil, causing current to be induced in the collector coil. It also induces current in the vertically oriented coils that are adjacent to the first input coil. I imagine that these are wired in series with the collector coil. The magnetic flux has just spun 90 degrees and moved over from input coil 1 to vertical collector coil 1. I also imagine that the adjacent vertical coil is wrapped in such a way that it induces a current (and thus magnetic flux) in the second input coil. So when the now faster (1.618: 1 faster?) kicks hit the second coil, there is already current moving and flux building. The second input coil is also attached to a resonant tank circuit which is tuned to have its resonant peak at the frequency of the pulses. I think the collector coil and its vertical coils have caps in series, also. They form part of a LC resonant tank circuit but also store the voltage to power any attached load. It think the collector coil with the vertical coils is tuned to have its resonance at the lowest fundamental frequency, and the input coils are harmonics of that - possibly odd order harmonics, Fibonacci series, phi, major chord, or empirically tuned by watching the behavior on a scope.
When the kicks on coil 2 pull in the radiant energy current surge, that induces current and flux in the collector coil and the next adjacent vertical coil, which is wrapped in such a way that it induces current and flux in the next input coil (3). This continues around the circle with the magnetic field cork screwing around the circumference of the main collector coil circle. When the magnetic surge makes it round the circuit, it acts as positive feedback for the first input coil. I also think this cork-screwing and spinning of the magnetic fields pulls in more radiant energy, which causes the current to keep flowing in the same direction. If the pulses and resonance were optimized, the tpu would quickly pull in too much voltage and cause catastrophic arcs through the wire insulation or capacitor insulation. This is why SM tunes the circuit off frequency slightly. You can also see he has put fuses on the big tpu device.
I do not think the earth's magnetic resonance is critical to the operating of the tpu. It is a radiant energy device pulling its energy from the vacuum. I think you can pick different sets of frequencies. In his first small device, maybe SM thought the earth's vibrating magnetic field played a role, but the later devices vibrated much faster. By setting up his device to resonate at 7.3 Hz, maybe there was a significant braking effect from the earth's flux that happened when he turned the device upside down. The magnet on the small device probably just triggered a magnetic switch that turned on the device. He has said that the magnets are not critical to the operation of the device, correct? On the larger device where he turns it on by placing two magnets, I think that he purposely underwound those two coils so that they would not produce enough flux to keep the positive feedback building. The magnets were used to augment the flux of those two coils and allow the turbine effect to build.
Also, I think that high ohm leakage resistors are placed in parallel with each capacitor in the various tank circuits. On the large tpu it looks like he has resistors across the pair of vertically oriented caps. These dissipate the voltage on the caps when the device is turned off as a safety measure. They also serve to bleed some of the current and create some extra ac "hash" on the dc current, which causes additional resonance in the tank circuits. It also causes the vibration of the device, which also contributes to the flux of adjacent coils inducing more voltage and current much like a guitar pickup picks up the vibration of a metal string. Maybe all of the coil wire should be ferrous? Has SM said anything about what kind of metal the wire is made of? This vibration and the current drawn from the device when it is powering a load are what cause the device to heat up. I imagine having a bank of several units wired in parallel to abate overheating issues.
On the big tpu device the inductive coils in the center might be there because he needed a certain amount of induction for his vertical collector coils, but he did not need all of the coil to be close to the input coils creating the positive magnetic feedback. It may have been a way of maximizing the LC tank resonance but reducing some of the positive magnetic feedback.
I think the gyroscopic effect comes from the cork-screwing magnetic field that is constantly circling around the circumference of the device. This also seems to match his statements about the tpu acting as a turbine or an accelerometer.
Please, let me know what you think, everyone (including you, SM). I have to study a lot more before I can draw up a possible circuit to test.
Hello all,
@dfro
you have a theory and so you have a setup in your "memory". In this forum I learned that a picture is 1000 words worth. Show us a picture and THEN we - myself can discuss.
Im not so good with theories but when I see a picture then.....I made a lot of coils, not to mention TPUs and I hope I learned something in this almost 2 years.
Otto
Edit: again my f...g feeling in my heart. A warm feeling. PLEASE, a PICTURE!!!!
Did you see this experiment by JLN Labs.
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/lmdtem.htm (http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/lmdtem.htm)
TEST N?2) LMD Transmission Line:
The LMD (Longitudinal Magneto-Dielectric) line is the analog simulation of longitudinal EM waves propagation in space coming from two parallel wires, this is the unconventional flow of the EM radiation.
The output power is >3 times input power just using coils and cap's
Geoff
Hello Geoff,
yes, I saw it a looong time ago. Again yes, tank circuits and yes, again the controls I also see as extensions of the collectors or the opposite.
To say it in my way: if I want a working Mobius I have to connect this Mobius in series with the controls. If not connected in this manner they dont work. In a lot of tests I had a very nice light and then I disconnected the Mobius and saw that the light was the same! This means, the Mobius didnt work. When you connect everything in series then the Mobius is forced to work because the current MUST go through and arround the Mobius. Yes, arround Mobius and all the wires because I can hear the particles swirling in my cork "isolation". Its a specific sound.
Otto
Hello Otto
I would like to thank you for all the great work you have done on this project, you deserve all respect.
Unfortunately I don't have your experience or expertise!
I guess I am really looking for something much simpler to build for myself, definitely not RF, I had my fingers burned with RF many years ago!
Watching the SM videos, for the 100th time, did I really hear him say that he could feel a vibration at about 5kHz?
I don't know if that is possible, 50Hz I could feel but I don't know about 5kHz.
I'm sure your work is on the right lines but, as SM said, there are other ways to do it.
I think, from the video's, he shows 3 different types of machine, would you agree?
Regards
Geoff
Hello all,
@Geoff
thanks for your kind words.
Im burning my fingers almost every day. You know how it is: a lot of wires arround the TPU and it happens that I touch 1 of them....
Yes, there is a vibration at, say, 5kHz and again yes, there are a few ways to build a TPU. We know about the open - 4 segments - 2 metal plates as collectors or something like this and in the videos we could see TPUs builded in other ways...
You mentioned that you want to build something much simpler. HA!!! The TPU is sooooooo simple to build. Forget about loooooooong coils and such crap. The TPU needs SHORT coils. In this moment I really dont know how short but on Monday, I hope, I will know it.
As our master said: just a wire for a collector and another wire wound arround this collector and I say not too much wire. Its easy. The RF is not such a problem. You have only to be carefull.
Otto
@dfro
Your knowledge does not sound as weak as you suggest it might be. Agreed, there must be at least three major types given by SM. The confusion is where his words do not seem to apply to any specific type. When his words fit one device it seams to be opposite in another device.
Since my short time trying to build each of the types (as I have been able to understand them) I have come up with nothing worth sharing on this forum. Why? Because words are useless without graphics and drawings. The photos supplied are incredibly poor quality.
Otto seems to be one of the most dedicated to finding the answer. He has shared much but also had results worth sharing. If nothing else I will have learned a great deal since joining this forum. I must say I thought my knowledge on these matters was virtually complete when I joined. Now I laugh at myself for such ignorance!
Please, provide a graphic of your posted text. Mistranslation of more words is not going to help here. From your words I think you have a great deal to aid in this quest.
BEP
Hello all,
@BEP
today is Monday I this week I will read dfros 2 posts 1000 times, if needed. Try to make a drawing from dfros words. He uses other words for the coils but who cares. Just take your time and think about what this great man said to us.
Its the first time that I have his 2 posts on my PC desktop because you never know.....ha,ha.
BEP, lets analyse every word of this guy. Lets try to make a drawing, let us finnish the game!! .....my feeling....
@All,
this weekend I wanted to work on my TPU but I made something totally different: I made a 50 turns control coil (like the ECD, for learning purposes only) and a Mobius as collector, just 1 turn and then 5 turns and ended with 9 turns for the collector.
I knew it already but wanted to see it again: the more turns for a collector, the more shit, oh, sorry, the more hash you have in your windings. The hash adds or multiplies in the collector windings and thats logic.
Then I was thinking about cutting the lenght of my collector to get the right frequency. But whats the working frequency of a 6" TPU?? Nobody knows! What to do in such a situation??
I used 245kHz like the 15" TPU and the other frequency was from 10 - 70kHz. The 3rd frequency I had to tune so I had just 2 frequencies to play.
I saw that the 245kHz are OK but I had to tune the other 2 frequencies. Result: with a magnet on my controls everything was vibrating at say 5 - 6kHz. How???
Its easy. A long time I know that at a high frequency of arround 250kHz I have a lot of noise on my radio. I was all the time ignoring this frequency because I didnt want the noise on my radio. I was wrong!!
At this frequency happens the noise. Its 245kHz. Im talking of an exact frequency. Now, the next frequency should be 35kHz. Yes, with this 2 frequencies I can see that sine waves begins to form and my power supply starts to pump. On the radio is a lot of noise. But when the PS pumps I have also a vibration of my control coil!!! and the Mobius!!!!
Dfro said that a coil is needed for stability. On Friday I didnt understand what he meant but today I know it: the stability of the 5 or 6kHz vibration. My vibration is unstable, a lot of noise on my radio, the PS pumping.....remember SMs words? The worst frequency scenario!!
For the guys that dont know about and for what we need a vibration: when I tipp with my finger on my newest TPU I can clearly see that the little vibration causes big kicks in my coils. Of course, NOTHING connected to the coils, no PS and no oscillators.
This means that a vibration gives us a lot of extra energy.
While I was building my little coil setup I had my scope connected on my TPU. Every thing was disconnected but the coils connected. What I saw: just little signals, not worth to mention, in mVs. Then I saw this signals growing, getting bigger and bigger and then a "bang". There was a kick, like a cap was dischargend and the signals again, little, not worth to mention and this "game" repeated again and again....The kick was a big one, in volts.
As I didnt even touch my newest TPU this week, if I have the needed time, I want to wind at least 1 additional feedback coil to have 2 of them. I want to use my knowledge that I got this weekend and see what will happen.
Yes, I know that with only 1 little ECD coil it was impossible to get a runaway but with a TPU and this crazy frequencies and crazy pumping its really a mess because a runaway happens sooooo fast you cant imagine.
It seems that this was a looooong post. Sorry guys.
Otto
@Otto
I hope I'm not offbase here but here goes:
The speed of sound in a fine stranded copper conductor depends upon a lot of things but basically it is around 2300 m/s for highly flexible wire that is fairly free to move(vibrate).
Adding more loops in the collector causes slower current as flow velocity is highly dependent upon creation of the mag field created by current flow. The more turns = slower current flow + increased hash (turn to turn inductance).
Vibration frequency is also dependent upon flexibility
Vibration is from - a current carrying wire in a magnetic field experiences a force at right angles to both the field and current direction. (magnetostrictive LIKE effect but for any conductor)
How many control coils will you finally have and will they be driven in quadrature? With this I can suggest low and high frequencies. The best I can say of the third frequency is it will be the result of the other two.
As an example: If you will have four control coils (2 sets driven in quadrature- push-pull or totem-pole) I would suggest trying 87.5kHz and 612.5 kHz. Depending upon structure the collector should vibrate in the 3k and 5k range with a difference of vibration frequencies of 1800Hz.
I could go on but I think I already look like a fool.
The above is extrapolated from what I am seeing on my current coil set (NO OU - Yet!)
Hello all,
@BEP
the last few days Im playing with my little ECD like control coil connected to a 1 turn Mobius and then to a 5 turn Mobius.
To be honest I was wrong: the hash is the same in 1 turn or in 5 turns of a Mobius. I dont know why. Its not logic because the hash should be added or multiplied in the near windings of a Mobius but....I really dont know whats going on.
You say more windings = slower current + increased hash. Hmmmm .....NO!!
I saw another effect: imagine my 3 oscillators can give me a nice square wave at 100kHz but everything over this frequency is a big nothing. I mean, the signals - square waves are a s..t.
Now imagine when I pulse my TPU I can see veeeeery nice kicks at 250kHz and much more!!! They are perfect.
It looks like the kicks are speeded up in the coils.
About the frequencies I use: just 245kHz and a lower kHz frequency. When I mix this 2 frequencies I have almost a runaway because my Ampermeter on my power supply jumps from 2 - 5A. But this jumping of the Ampmeter needle is at low frequencies.
In this moment when a pumping starts I can hear on my radio a very fast "knocking" signal. My magnetic needle hanging over my TPU or bulb was jumping....and I see that a sinus is forming but as I have only 1 ECD coil I hope I cant have a runaway.
This morning I connected just 1 cap into my setpu and saw that the kicks are now sine waves. I did it a few months ago and it was OK. My favorite was a 22nF/400V cap.
How many control coils?
Just look at dfros description: he mentioned 3 controls, I think and then he says about the magnetic flux at 90?.
I was a long time thinking about my runaway. How did I connect my controls? It seems that I had 4 controls connected in series. 3 coils pulsed and the result was "collected" in the 4th control. Im not sure.
I will try to post a picture.
Hello all,
I think that this picture and the description is OK. Yes, you see only a 1 turn collector but who cares. And you see only a 1 segment control. Its easy to have 3 or 4 segments, no problem.
Do you see anything else??
Otto
Hello all,
its nice here: Quite!!
First I have to say that my new TPU is wound as in the picture. Its a nice TPU.
The last few days I was playing with my ECD 1 control TPU and as I already posted, at 245kHz + an additional frequency there is a pumping.
Yesterday I connected my new TPU on the oscillators and my 1. frequency was 245kHz. I wanted to see if I can have the same pumping with my TPU as I had it with my ECD.
I only can say yeeeeesssss!!!! 245kHz + a lower frequency gives me a pumping at arround 5 - 10Hz. The pumping is not stable because I have no feedback coils and everything is connected in a wrong way.
I have to print dfros words on a paper so I can have his words on my workbench.
Have a nice day.
Otto
Hello
I would say hello all but as Im allone I can only say
Hello myself
yesterday I had not much time but I worked on my 1 ECD coil TPU. As mentioned before, it seems that the 245kHz frequency is a "magic" frequency. I found no other frequency mix that gives me a pumping signal. So, 245kHz is needed and 2 other frequencies.
As I had my pumping I saw that the wires are a little vibrating and so I took a neodym magnet and placed it to the control coil. The vibration was much stronger.
Our master said "all arround..." and I streched the ECD control coil over a quarter of the circumference of my TPU. The wires vibrated.
That means that my new TPU is wound totally wrong because I have a pumping but NOT a vibration.
Its logic why I dont have a vibration and what I have to do: just to build my TPU like in the picture!!!!!!
Otto
@otto
Hope you are well.
Also, 258 is square root of 67k which is speed of Earth travel through space.
258 is not far from your 245.
Also 5607 is good.
I also like the 41 to 121 range mixes are so freaky sounding and have powerful vibrations.
I have tried in many places on the CC with a magnet at the end also to check the vibrations.
@all or @z_p_e
On the large TPU he has two yellow caps that remind me of crossover capacitors for audio. From your experience on the size of those caps, are they generally used for low frequency woofer, midrange or for a high frequency tweeter?
@wattsup
Im OK, thanks.
Now I remember. Yesterday I measured the 67kHz.
Otto
Hi otto, good work.
It sounds like you are mixing two frequencies close together and getting a beat frequency (or difference). Am I understanding you correctly?
I like the fact that you have vibrations, vibrations are good :)
What about power output, how do you tap that?
EM
Hi EM,
1 frequency is 245kHz exactly and the other is, I think 67kHz and with the 3rd Im playing. Output is a s..t because I have only 1 ECD coil streched over 1/4 of the circumference of my 6" "TPU". The point is, I wanted a vibration and I got it. This vibration is at 5 - 6kHz but unstable because my coil is unstable, my MOSFETs are unstable, my oscillators are a s..t......as I have to work every day all the days long I have NO time to build tube oscillators....
For the weekend I want a new TPU that vibrates and has a "interacting" coil structure. I mean, all the coils are acting together. In the horizontal AND the vertical direction. The picture showes it clearly. I also want to use "dfros" description as much as possible because I saw that his description is very good.
Im tapping the output with a "Mobius" or something like this. Im thinking of the collectors because a Mobius is OK when connected in the right way. There are a few ways to do this. Not like in the ECD.
Otto
Quote from: otto on December 06, 2007, 01:22:18 AM
Hello
I would say hello all but as Im allone I can only say
Hello myself
@Otto
You are not alone. It sounds like we are thinking the same. I'm busy blowing things up! If I can get past the reason for the damage I may make some progress.
It is a little slow for me as I must build each control as I go.
BEP
Hi BEP:
I have been trying to figure out just where to put this and this seems like the best place. You being a ham radio guy, you will know where I am at thinking on this. I have been mulling over the pages and pages of this. On thing that keeps comming up is the post stating 35.705 and the hi frequency is 249.935 both Khz. This is for the 15" version. Circumference of the circle is very important. OK. Circum of a 15" is 47.1238.
Now we take that 249.935 and convert to wave length, and its wrong. But wait, there is more, 249.935 (MHZ) converts to a wave length of 47.244. He did say you cant tune to the absolute center. And .12xxxx is not far off. So wonder if saying KHZ was a way to say MHZ in ruse. Cant come out and say what freq it is and isnot. Just how does the 5K fit in.
So whats your feeling here? This just keeps hacking at me.
thaelin
Quote from: Thaelin on December 06, 2007, 05:25:43 PM
Hi BEP:
I have been trying to figure out just where to put this and this seems like the best place. You being a ham radio guy, you will know where I am at thinking on this. I have been mulling over the pages and pages of this. On thing that keeps comming up is the post stating 35.705 and the hi frequency is 249.935 both Khz. This is for the 15" version. Circumference of the circle is very important. OK. Circum of a 15" is 47.1238.
Now we take that 249.935 and convert to wave length, and its wrong. But wait, there is more, 249.935 (MHZ) converts to a wave length of 47.244. He did say you cant tune to the absolute center. And .12xxxx is not far off. So wonder if saying KHZ was a way to say MHZ in ruse. Cant come out and say what freq it is and isnot. Just how does the 5K fit in.
So whats your feeling here? This just keeps hacking at me.
thaelin
Oh my!
I'm not sure where to begin. You may be right about the a ruse between kHz and mHz. I don't think that is the case.
If you do a spectragram of the sound made by the 6 inch TPU you'll find there are two dominant audio frequencies. The difference between them is 1800 Hz. Between those two you'll see 5 minor lobes in increments of 200 Hz. 1800/5=360. Not interesting?
With that and quite a bit of other work I'm down to this:
Vibration caused by 90 degree fields impressed upon a current carrying wire. This vibration will travel as a sound wave at the speed of sound for that conductor (about 2300 m/s for stranded copper loosly bound - tested). What this does is explains the 5kHz (vibration) and the information about load lights not dimming with more load. Apply more load/cause more vibration. Disconnect the load and the 'hash' takes over and provides HV like an unloaded current transformer.
basically you can make a loop resonate at much lower frequency than conventional calcs because we are dealing with longitudinal waves and different speeds. My 9 inch coil is resonating quite well at 35 kHz but it also will resonate in the HF bands. That 35 kHz with 245 kHz applied to another section generates an audible vibration that ranges from 2.5 kHz to 4.8 kHz (parametric?)
I may still be completely off my rocker and mHz may be required. I'm still working on that.
Much more behind my thoughts but it is very late here and I've been on the bench now about 21 hours.
Hello all,
@BEP
my favorite radio station is at 104 MHz were I can hear all my knocking and hash from my coils. I hope my neighbours dont hear it, ha,ha.
Im happy to NOT be allone. Other will join, be sure.
Otto
Its only my feeling.
@ BEP:
Thanks for the reply. That has been bugging me for a while now and just wanted to air it and see where it went. Never know where a new piece of the puzzle will come from. Onward.
thaelin
@Otto
I must be doing something wrong. I have no 'good' results yet. All is interference related. You have your knocking at 104 mHz? Mine is all of the FM broadcast band. It appears best when listening for frequency modulation on any band my general coverage receiver can see where FM is a mode. Really stong on 6 meters.
Pretty weird considering the highest frequency I'm injecting has been 300 kHz.
Anyone ever listen to the OrbComm downlink? It sounds like that except very unstable.
I start seeing the carriers as low as 155kHz CW. There are definite lobes. Vertical frequencies are very different from horizontal radiations. I had to move my test setup because it was almost directly under the family TV. I drop my HT in the center and there is nothing. Maybe I just stumbled upon an active Farady cage or really nasty Helmholtz coils.
Jeez - I wish I could get back to where I can pop light bulbs. I've done enough jamming work.
Since mine sounds dirtier than yours and my signals aren't strong outside my basement you probably won't have problems with the neighbors. Hopefully ;D
Alright! I think I need to stop violating FCC rules and make something useful.
Here's a picture before hookup so folks don't think I'm dreaming...
The coils are much closer to the mid coil now and all are covered with stacked vertical coils (added CC covering bottom and mid - added CC covering bottom mid and top). So I have five possible points of injection. Cores (collectors to most) are one loop folded and fed into each coil so current flows the same direction in all coils. This llop is a closed circuit. The cores are inserted to allow for easy vibration.
I think the tpu runs on fairy dust, it seems as likely as anything I have heard. ;D
@allcanadian & @Thaelin
Here is a snippet that I think applies to my arguments about resonance and the supposed impossibility to resonate at these low frequencies without risking the loss of my Ham ticket to a raging mob at the next HamFest:
S. I. Berezina1, V. E. Lyamov1 and S. M. Shandarov1(1) Tomsk Institute of Automated Control Systems and Radioelectronics, USSR
Received: 15 December 1975 Revised: 7 May 1976
Abstract The propagation of elastic waves in piezoelectric and magnetostrictive materials is considered theoretically. It is shown that an elastic wave in a piezoelectric can create not only a longitudinal electric field parallel to the wave normal (longitudinal piezoactivity) but also a transverse field of electric induction (transverse piezoactivity). The presence of a transverse induction field leads to the appearance of a magnetic field perpendicular to the direction of the wave normal and to the induction vector; therefore, the transverse-piezoactive wave is accompanied by a transverse wave having the structure of an electromagnetic wave and propagating with the speed of sound. Transverse-magnetostrictive elastic waves in magnetostrictive dielectrics are accompanied by a similar wave.
Translated from Izvestiya Vysshikh Uchebnykh Zavedenii, Fizika, No. 10, pp. 32ââ,¬â€œ36, October, 1976.
I don't have more. The abstract was enough for me.
BEP
Quote from: wattsup on December 06, 2007, 01:47:53 AM
@all or @z_p_e
On the large TPU he has two yellow caps that remind me of crossover capacitors for audio. From your experience on the size of those caps, are they generally used for low frequency woofer, midrange or for a high frequency tweeter?
Those caps aren't likely any larger than 10uF or 22uF max. They could also be much lower in value but with a higher voltage rating, however, I would assume that as SM has dabbled in loudspeaker/cross-over design, they are probably between 1uF and 22 uF.
The two larger electrolytics we see near the ring perimeter are likely for output filtering, and the components across them bleed-off or equalizing resistors.
Hello all,
@BEP
just look at the 3stack.jpg and look very carefully!!! What do you see??
Dont say you see only 3 collectors with controls!! Take your time and look!!! Think about that the TPU is 44mm high, or for our US friends 1 3/4".
I must say that I builded my 3stack TPU and it works fine but I made a mistake and have to do it again.
Otto
Quote from: otto on December 10, 2007, 01:36:27 AM
...
just look at the 3stack.jpg and look very carefully!!! What do you see??
Hi Otto,
I see this:
Quote from: SM
About the collector:
It is three separate coils of multi strand copper wire laid one on
top of the other, not interleaved.
Three is important.
You can do many things with three coils.
You can run them in parallel, you can run two in series and one in
parallel, or etc.
You can run a separate frequency into each coil for better control
on large power units if need be.
The control wiring is vertically wound in several segments around
each of the horizontal collector coils.
Other control wires are wound around all of the horizontal
collector coils together.
But please tell us what exactly YOU see. Please, no guessing games.
Bitte Otto, keine ratespiele, wenn's nicht unbedingt sein muss.
Viel erfolg, und mach hinne ... ;) :)
Hello all,
@Gustav22
maybe this time I can post??
Look at the distances between the collectors and at the distances between each collector and control coil.
Otto
If you look...
Hi Otto,
Quote from: otto on December 10, 2007, 03:39:57 AM
....Look at the distances between the collectors and at the distances between each collector and control coil.
I looked again at 3stack.jpg in
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3660.msg62585.html#msg62585
I would not have noticed, but you are right:
The distance (a) between the lowest collector and the middle collector is smaller than the distance (b) between the middle collector and the top collector.
golden rule i.e. phi !?
a/b = 1/0.618 !?
And the lowest control winding (black) is wound tighter than the middle one (blue). And the red CC-winding is wound loosest.
Was this just for easy drawing or does it have meaning?
Hello Otto, All,
Here is a chunk of text I wrote earlier, but since noone has answered Otto's question to his satisfaction, I thought I'd throw this out here:
I have a theory on the 15" TPU--I've actually had most of it kicking around my head for quite a while, but the final piece snapped into place yesterday night based on Otto's coil setup:
What Otto has done is, in effect, given each primary coil a different wave propogation velocity. That is the key! If one has three different propogation velocities, then one can launch a pulse down the slowest coil first, let it get maybe halfway, then launch another pulse down the medium-speed coil, and finally a pulse down the fastest coil. Now what will happen, if everything was timed right, is that the medium-speed pulse will catch up to the low-speed pulse just as they get to the end of the primaries. The fastest pulse would also catch up at the same instant, and you would have the superposition of all three magnetic and electric fields at that instant at the end of the collector wire. This fits perfectly with so many of SM's words; I had been thinking about this very mechanism for quite some time, but had not figured out a way to velocity-inhibit some of the primary coils. Otto's idea is sheer genius! ;D
Now what SM has probably done is set up three separate segments around the collector, each wired in exactly the same way as described, at 0, 120, and 240 degrees. Now what he does is fire one (feed in the pulse sequences described above), and at the exact instant that the fields superimpose he fires the adjacent segment. This causes the bubble of electrons that was assembled from the first control segment firing to "ride the wave" of the second control segment's firing, and so on until the output is reached. This may cause all sorts of vibration and interesting inertial effects, BTW! ;D
This does not explain the operational principle of the first open TPUs, but those may not have worked very well, or may have hidden windings to allow this principle to work.
Now for SM's words to justify this theory: ;)
First of all, frequencies probably do not mean sine waves, and may actually mean differently-phased pulsed signals.
QuoteThe frequencies are directly related to the circumference of the collector coil
If the pulses are not phased (timed) correctly, the above scenario will not happen.
QuoteBy the way, have you seen the video of the compass turning violently in the center of the unit while in operation? Notice that when I first turn the unit on that the compass starts to spin very slowly. it speeds up faster and faster until it just stops. When it stops the unit is always operating at about it's design maximum.
The control unit may fire the control coils in sequence slowly, building up more and more energy so that it can fire them faster and faster. The compass would stop as the DC current flowing throught the collectors generates a powerful vertical magnetic field that acts to jam the compass (trust me, those things are extremely sensitive to vertical magnetic fields!)
QuoteYou know, it is very similar to the idea of a long garden hose. Picture a hose with water in it. If you pick up one end and move along the length of the hose you will move the water constantly along in the direction you are moving. You could also squeeze the hose in the direction to move the water along as well. And you could do both to control the movement of the water more precisely. You can think of the movement of water as the movement of electrons through the collector coils.
Self explanatory :D
I couldn't find SM's words on 245KHz and 35KHz, but I do remember the gist of them.
Say we put sharp, narrow pulses at a rate of 35KHz into the slowest winding. If you look at the way that the coils are wound, the slowest winding's length is related to the fastest winding's length by a ratio of 7:1. Sound familiar? By extension, the middle speed winding's length is related to the fastest winding's length by a ratio of 5:1, so we should pump 175KHz into the middle winding. Jiggle the phases around a bit to make the pulses "combine at the output into one big kick" (SMs words from memory) and it should work!
Sorry I don't have any graphics to go with this right now.
Let me know what you think! Feel free to poke holes in it, just do so gently, please. ;)
Eldarion
a picture
look's good 8)
(Disclaimer: No offense intended)
That image is not Otto's. Perhaps the person that drew it wants to reamain anomynous.
Based upon my experiences I understand it this way:
The compass stops because once vertical dielectric current flows at
the maximum rate there is no magnetic field in the center.
Propagation velocity changes with different surroundings for a
conductor. Just bury your coax for the transmitter and see what it
does to transmission line performance. I think there was mention of
undersea cables, also. I'll never forget those delays.
Now run current through a shield or winding surrounding a conductor.
You increase or decrease the delay. I don't know if it can be used to
speed things above a 'conductor carrying current' with no external
influence.
The three layered TPU graphic shows four levels of velocity factor
influence over the bottom collector. Three only if you figure there is
at least one control coil fired at all times.
The middle layer then would have two and the top one...
So, yes. I would agree with waves riding the backs of others and
arrival times being different even though the lengths are the same.
Just my two cents...
QuoteYou can try to estimate by calculating 1/4 wavelength of control coil and apply this distance.
I was thinking for some time in this direction ... the problem I encounter is that any frequency in kH range has very long wavelength ...
For one of the mentioned ones, 245kH, the wave length comes to 1224.49 meters so any idea trying to utilize 1/4 wavelength in a TPU design bumps to a wall in my imagination. The other option, that is quite possible I have to admit, is that I am missing something important in the big picture.
Yeah...
Quote from: Grumpy on December 13, 2007, 01:52:45 PM
Yeah. Even in the MHz range 1/4 wavelength is long.
For whatever reason, the control coils don't appear to be directly against the collector.
Sounding more electrostatic or may have no relation to the frequencies.
Grumpy,
Steven has never ever used the words
control coils one single time.....
He did however speak of,
control wire
control wires
control wiring
control unit
control units
control device
control devices
control system
control circuit
control circuits
control frequencies
Control apparatusThrough the different control wire and coil wire arrangements you can keep complete control of the unit most of the time.When he talks about coils, he is always reffering to the collector coils...
Now how come evreybody thinks the perpendiculair control wires are coils??
Marco.
"..The control wiring is vertically wound in several segments around each of the horizontal collector coils. Other control wires are wound around all of the horizontal collector coils together...."
Since control wires are wound, whenever we wind a wire round and round, it's what we would call a coil :)
I'm not sure why we are debating little things again. We know the geometry pretty much we are looking for the frequencies now. But you need to know the composition of the wires. Horizontal wire is IRON, or some other magnetostricitve (and also magnetic) material. IT NEEDS TO VIBRATE.
So why does it need to vibrate, just for the fun of it?
So it can cut through the EARTH MAGNETIC FIELD, and move ELECTRONS IN A WIRE, "...THAT WAS USABLE ENERGY..."
EM
Guess they can be "run or wrapped vertically over the horizontal collector wires".
I am new but I think I was able to figure out how it works and where the energy comes from. I believe frequencies are the energy source and the magnetic field is the collector and the pulsing of the frequencies in the magnetic field is what is used to move the electrons in the wiring. I did find out that different frequencies require different wire or materials to get the best results. I did post these things in "Sparks New TPU Design" thread but the following is what I posted in that thread.
Re: Sparks' New TPU Design
? Reply #16 on: Today at 02:29:59 PM ? Quote Modify
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is some interesting information if not known already. I can see how this concept could possibly be modified to produce usable energy.
http://www.magnet.fsu.edu/education/tutorials/java/fticr/index.html
This information added with the information in the High Permeability Wires - 1936 Article thread,
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3747.0/topicseen.html
makes me believe this could possibly work.
Re: Sparks' New TPU Design
? Reply #17 on: Today at 02:51:03 PM ? Quote Modify
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is some more information that may help.
Because lightning strikes are pulses, they contain many different frequencies and because the Earth is a resonator it takes these harmonic-containing spikes and filters them into multiples of the Earth's resonant frequency. Therefore, frequencies of 7.8Hz, 15.6Hz, 23.4Hz etc. are all supported by the Earth's resonator.
http://www.angelsuniverse.com/schumannresonance.htm
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I think that if anyone is attempting to build this, they should read those articles in the links I provided. The same should go for those attempting to build a solid state design. I am also starting to think that a electron is nothing more then a pulse of frequency in it?s own magnetic field. I am also starting to think that the earth is a positive and the atmosphere is the negative. Let me also add this idiotic theory, everything evolved from the compression of frequencies.
Maybe I am just insane in the membrane. LOL
From a NASA Tech Brief:
ââ,¬Å"A whistler presents the curved signal and is the result of a ââ,¬â,,¢spheric that has been modified during its journey to the receiver. The curvature indicates that higher frequencies of the whistler reach the receiver before the lower frequencies. This is a property of the propagation of low-frequency radio signals in a magnetized plasma (a gas of charged particles with an imbedded magnetic field ââ,¬â€ in this case, the magnetic field is that of Earth). The whistler waves propagate more or less along the magnetic field, and the longer they propagate, the larger will be the difference in arrival times between the high and low frequencies.ââ,¬Â
@Otto,
The current distance between my ââ,¬Ëœcollectorsââ,¬â,,¢ is 44mm. Not because of what you said ââ,¬â€œ because there is where I get the best interaction between the coils and the 1800 Hz cyclic variation between the 3kHz and 4.8kHz vibration.
I suspect: each layer has a different velocity factor. The bottom coil being the slowest because it has the combined magnetic fields of all three ââ,¬Ëœcontrol coilsââ,¬â,,¢. That would mean the bottom collector would have the lowest resonance while the magnetic field of the control coil is applied. Since the bottom collector has the most magnetic field applied it means this collector would have the highest ââ,¬ËœQââ,¬â,,¢.
I just found this video using TPU as a search and clicked on the most recent and found this next video link. It looks as if I maybe right but I can't say how they built theirs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsZ0EC2VeJw
Quote from: nightlife on December 13, 2007, 05:28:43 PM
I just found this video using TPU as a search and clicked on the most recent and found this next video link. It looks as if I maybe right but I can't say how they built theirs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsZ0EC2VeJw
His name is Jason. LOL ;D This is an old video of a test of Otto's and Roberto's ECD. It IS NOT what you think. The video, that is.
Keep searching, but not youtube, please. Watch SM's video's for clues. That may actually help.
Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
btentzer, thank you for confirming that it is not what I was thinking it could be but the concept still could hold truth as to using two frequencies, one being a lower level the other, instead of just one. It would make for a interesting test to see if it is true. Not only that but maybe even adding two or more frequencies to the test would be interesting.
Hi Nightlife :)
yes watch the video,s and LISTEN also, there are a few clues in the audio of each, especially in video
#5 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5483558279656482347&q=steven+marks&total=5657&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=4
Dirt
and if you simply want to light bulbs the cheap and dirty way is to do this:
The really poor-man's version of a scalar system that attempts to get some power into the field uses the energized parallel wire concept. Looking at the spool of wire on the right, that happens to be a spool of 250 feet of #20 gauge lamp-cord, the end of the spool of wire is shorted out. The application of a sufficiently low voltage, but high amperage current of either AC or DC is applied to the free end. CAUTION: High Voltage KICK BACK can happen when the source of voltage is removed due to field collapse. Typically a variac is used to drop the line voltage to something that doesn't blow up or smoke out the coil. Alternate methods have dropped the variac, and instead of the short, placed a 250-500 watt light-bulb (fixture) in its place. The spool is made of plastic
but it is not an amp that runs with gain, it just looks like it does.
all of this is from the bob dratch site: http://bob-dratch.org/#Part1
joe dirt, thank you for that link, it did make for a very interesting reading session. Although quite long, LOL.
I am not exactly sure how to take a lot of what was said but I will go back over it and research it more when I have the time.
I did go back over those video's you gave me a link to. I have seen them all before but I didn't know they were all linked together. Yes, they do all have to do with frequencies as I thought they did. Based on that, I was probably on the right track with my assumptions of the design a lot of people are trying to duplicate. Thanks again for that information.
As for the scalar effects, did you research these accusations? If this is truly a hazard, then I would have to say that it cant be that bad do to all the technology around us being used 24/7. Then again, I haven't researched this yet to say one way or another and again I must thank you for providing me with that information.
You have to excuse my ignorance do to my lack of education but please note that I am problem solver in the automotive field with 27 years experience. I dropped out in the 9th grade to work and I have never went back to school. I do feel that I have a pretty good sense of common sense and that is really about all I have to offer except for life experiences. I own several company?s including a auto repair company and a large upscale restaurant and night club.
Quote from: joe dirt on December 14, 2007, 01:12:02 AM
Hi Nightlife :)
yes watch the video,s and LISTEN also, there are a few clues in the audio of each, especially in video
#5 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5483558279656482347&q=steven+marks&total=5657&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=4
Dirt
but the sound is bad
so what kind software wound make better sound for these video's?
i have to ask this
so you have toroid transformer with low retentive iron core
but if take little piece away and but some high retentive metal into core "steel"
what will happen ?
jep i think this was what Macedonia dude was telling us ?
but maybe iam wrong
nightlife, I have a spool of wire just like that, same color and all :)
All, here's a tid bit from wikipedia:
"...The first superheterodyne circuits used the self-resonance of iron-cored interstage coupling transformers to filter the intermediate frequency, and this is why the Intermediate Frequency tuned circuits were still referred to as IF "transformers", long after they had been replaced by proper tunable coils...."
has anybody used the SELF-RESONANCE of IRON-CORED INTERSTAGE COUPLING TRANSFORMERS laterly? LOL :)
EMdevices
Hi Nightlife :)
To be honest I,m not convinced that the tpu actually works, I originally thought that,s what this
forum was about, to see if this thing could be back engineered and thus proven false or true,
but as time goes by, the life of this project dwindles and leans toward false.
Since you own an auto repair company i would suggest you get a copy of this
http://www.sae.org/technical/papers/2002-01-0829 and see what they have designed and use it
with the material found on this thread http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2057.0.html mate
these two ideas together, maybe improvise something of your own and who knows what you could
do with it.
As for all of the other things (scalar, tpu, dark energy etc..) it,s all vieled in misssteryyy , like a fog
around the mind and unfortunately i,m not "qualified" nor do i have the equipment to do any serious
research, so i am actually dependent on those who can and their opinions.
Edit: zapnic toward the end of the video somebody asks "What are the extra components" and he
was speaking of the large one and in reply I think what is said "there is no differrence between
the two" (paraphrasing a little) essentially the large one is probably four smaller units in
parallel.
As for theory "you disable the effects of the flux"
Quote from: joe dirt on December 14, 2007, 06:58:21 PM
Hi Nightlife :)
To be honest I,m not convinced that the tpu actually works, I originally thought that,s what this
forum was about, to see if this thing could be back engineered and thus proven false or true,
but as time goes by, the life of this project dwindles and leans toward false.
I think that the principles are simple, little known, less understood, and we all blew right past it.
joe dirt, thank you for that link but because that may come in handy but the HHO stuff on this forum will not. I am more interested in using frequencies and magnetic fields as a power source. If I ever chose to go with HHO, I would build injectors for the splitting so there wouldn't be any waste and it would be available on demand.
I am still unsure of the alleged scalar effects from altering frequencies but I just cant see that being an issue because of all the frequencies we use today as well as in the past. I can understand some frequencies maybe being bad and or even deadly for us bur I cant see any of your natural ones being bad for us.
I am not sure which way I want to go yet and that is one of the reasons why I am here in this forum. I am considering the TPU and or a magnetic pulse motor to experiment with but I am open to all suggestions.
Quote from: Grumpy on December 14, 2007, 10:22:28 PM
Quote from: joe dirt on December 14, 2007, 06:58:21 PM
Hi Nightlife :)
To be honest I,m not convinced that the tpu actually works, I originally thought that,s what this
forum was about, to see if this thing could be back engineered and thus proven false or true,
but as time goes by, the life of this project dwindles and leans toward false.
I think that the principles are simple, little known, less understood, and we all blew right past it.
Totally agree.
Quoteif this thing could be back engineered and thus proven false or true
Sorry to say but ... if a group of engineers can not engineer a nuclear device does this proves that a nuclear device can not work ... :-X Anyway this is not a forum with name 'if the tpu works" but "how it may work" ...
@ E1
semantics, history, water under the bridge, nothing more. I also revised my post
epwpixieq-1, from what I have read and seen on this topic as well as others, I don't think they are focusing on the ordering of certain frequencies by using a pulse.
Everyone want to create something that will produce "electricity" but yet I don't think anyone or anyone searching, knows what electricity even is. First you have to know what it is and what it is made of before you can produce and or collect it.
I will start a new thread "What is electricity" to help properly start our quest to finding free energy.
@emdevices
Said another way ,
Another application of the resonant transformer is to couple between stages of a superheterodyne receiver, where the selectivity of the receiver is provided by tuned transformers in the intermediate-frequency amplifiers.[28]
Quote from: dfro on November 26, 2007, 07:43:29 PM
Hello fellow reverse engineers.
I have been following this forum, watching the videos, and pondering how the TPU works. I think it is an authentic freedom energy device.
I consider myself very much a novice in electronics, but maybe my conjectures could shed some new light on the "guess what answer I am thinking of" game we are all trying to play here with SM. Please, pardon any major electronics dumb statements I make that reveal my inexperience in this field. I hope my thoughts are not too disorganized and hard to follow, also.
I would like to start by commenting about the "rotating magnetic field" mystery. I have been thinking a lot about that. What I think is happening is SM has set up sets of inductive coils that are oriented in two, possibly three different directions. On his small device there is the collector coil, which is wrapped around the circumference of the main circle. I think he has wrapped the collector coil around the circumference several times, but since the wire strands are packed in with no kind of wrapping orientation (the strands are not wrapped side by side along a core or hollow tube), the magnetic flux lines look like they would be for a single strand. However, he has augmented the collector coil with other vertical coils, which seem to be wrapped around metal cores (and on which he placed the magnets in one video). These windings could be extensions of the collector coil and connected in series with it and each other. The input coils are oriented in such a way that their flux lines are 90 degrees to the output coil and vertical coils. Again, I think the collector coil is somehow wired in series with the vertical coils. Other sets of coils, which I don't see in any of the pictures could be oriented as if the windings were wrapping around imaginary wheel spokes.
I also think this device is harnessing and augmenting the radiant energy surges that come from very quick, high voltage pulses. I remember Bedini or Tesla or Bearden saying that the more resistance across the voltage spike, the more electrons that piles up on the negative side of the circuit being excited. The trick is to let the electrons pile up and then switch them into the circuit without destroying the dipole . The inductive coils seem to be perfect for this. The voltage spike hits the input coil, the high inductive reactance resists electron flow and then as the magnetic field builds and collapses, the electrons move. I think he has all of the coils attached to capacitors to create resonant tank circuits. Also, I think he might have a diode in series with the capacitors of the tank circuits so that the current can only flow in one direction (maybe not, though). No current is ever allowed to flow when the pulse hits the coil. The kick hits a back-emf wall when it occurs, pulls in the radiant energy current surge, and then lets the current flow in the input coil when the induced magnetic field is building and decaying. With the current flowing in the input coil, its magnetic flux induces a current and flux in the collector coil. Using the flux created in the collector coil is one of the secrets, I think.
I also think he is using a small battery in all the devices to run the pulse control circuitry. I imagine there are a few 555 ic's that are driving some kind of fast, high voltage mosfet driver to make 1 to 4 sets of very fast, short on-time pulses, which are harmonics of each other. I would suggest doing pulse ratios that are in the Fibonacci series or each pulse being the previous pulse times phi. However, the pulses may be tuned to a chord, like a major chord - root, fifth, octave, tenth (just a thought). He has written about striking the right chord, correct? I also think he has a solid state diode/cap circuit to step up the voltage from the battery for the pulses. I remember reading about how to do this using diodes, caps, and pulses - it is basic stuff, which I don't know how to do yet.
When the fast, high voltage kick hits the first input coil and inducing current, its flux lines build and cut through the collector coil, causing current to be induced in the collector coil. It also induces current in the vertically oriented coils that are adjacent to the first input coil. I imagine that these are wired in series with the collector coil. The magnetic flux has just spun 90 degrees and moved over from input coil 1 to vertical collector coil 1. I also imagine that the adjacent vertical coil is wrapped in such a way that it induces a current (and thus magnetic flux) in the second input coil. So when the now faster (1.618: 1 faster?) kicks hit the second coil, there is already current moving and flux building. The second input coil is also attached to a resonant tank circuit which is tuned to have its resonant peak at the frequency of the pulses. I think the collector coil and its vertical coils have caps in series, also. They form part of a LC resonant tank circuit but also store the voltage to power any attached load. It think the collector coil with the vertical coils is tuned to have its resonance at the lowest fundamental frequency, and the input coils are harmonics of that - possibly odd order harmonics, Fibonacci series, phi, major chord, or empirically tuned by watching the behavior on a scope.
When the kicks on coil 2 pull in the radiant energy current surge, that induces current and flux in the collector coil and the next adjacent vertical coil, which is wrapped in such a way that it induces current and flux in the next input coil (3). This continues around the circle with the magnetic field cork screwing around the circumference of the main collector coil circle. When the magnetic surge makes it round the circuit, it acts as positive feedback for the first input coil. I also think this cork-screwing and spinning of the magnetic fields pulls in more radiant energy, which causes the current to keep flowing in the same direction. If the pulses and resonance were optimized, the tpu would quickly pull in too much voltage and cause catastrophic arcs through the wire insulation or capacitor insulation. This is why SM tunes the circuit off frequency slightly. You can also see he has put fuses on the big tpu device.
I do not think the earth's magnetic resonance is critical to the operating of the tpu. It is a radiant energy device pulling its energy from the vacuum. I think you can pick different sets of frequencies. In his first small device, maybe SM thought the earth's vibrating magnetic field played a role, but the later devices vibrated much faster. By setting up his device to resonate at 7.3 Hz, maybe there was a significant braking effect from the earth's flux that happened when he turned the device upside down. The magnet on the small device probably just triggered a magnetic switch that turned on the device. He has said that the magnets are not critical to the operation of the device, correct? On the larger device where he turns it on by placing two magnets, I think that he purposely underwound those two coils so that they would not produce enough flux to keep the positive feedback building. The magnets were used to augment the flux of those two coils and allow the turbine effect to build.
Also, I think that high ohm leakage resistors are placed in parallel with each capacitor in the various tank circuits. On the large tpu it looks like he has resistors across the pair of vertically oriented caps. These dissipate the voltage on the caps when the device is turned off as a safety measure. They also serve to bleed some of the current and create some extra ac "hash" on the dc current, which causes additional resonance in the tank circuits. It also causes the vibration of the device, which also contributes to the flux of adjacent coils inducing more voltage and current much like a guitar pickup picks up the vibration of a metal string. Maybe all of the coil wire should be ferrous? Has SM said anything about what kind of metal the wire is made of? This vibration and the current drawn from the device when it is powering a load are what cause the device to heat up. I imagine having a bank of several units wired in parallel to abate overheating issues.
On the big tpu device the inductive coils in the center might be there because he needed a certain amount of induction for his vertical collector coils, but he did not need all of the coil to be close to the input coils creating the positive magnetic feedback. It may have been a way of maximizing the LC tank resonance but reducing some of the positive magnetic feedback.
I think the gyroscopic effect comes from the cork-screwing magnetic field that is constantly circling around the circumference of the device. This also seems to match his statements about the tpu acting as a turbine or an accelerometer.
Please, let me know what you think, everyone (including you, SM). I have to study a lot more before I can draw up a possible circuit to test.
@dfro
After reading a bit here in what i have been missing in the tpu threads i find it interesting that you're the only poster who backed up my theory for using the phi increment and the Fibonacci seq. My theory leads me to believe that the phi ratio is the golden "interval" that allows your kicks to add together creatively and the chord pulse train chosen will create a high velocity repetitive cycle.. When the right harmonics of a chord are played at the golden interval from each other they seem to add to each other and become ever smaller in size yet greater in speed. This is the vortex theory behind phi spirals and what some see as the makings of life . Crazy where that dam ratio leads ya. Why do some power chords make your amp feed back more than normal when the distortion is turned on a little .........?
dfro,
A nice "summary" of some of the theories put forth so far over the last year and a half. Nothing really new here, sorry.
There are some problems.
- No induction occurs to the collector at 90?.
- Electron flow begins before the magnetic field builds.
- Diodes in a tank effectively kill the resonance effect.
- Synchronizing can not be done with 555 timers. Also precisely tuning each pulse width would be difficult as well.
- Flux cutting through the collector will not induce current in the collector. The orientation is out.
- Driving a resonant tank at harmonics above its resonant frequency will kill the resonant effect. The frequencies must be below the tank's resonant frequency.
- What do you mean by "different sets of frequencies" ? The frequencies ARE related to the device, that is a given.
- It is highly unlikely that the devices are set up to electrically resonate at 7.3 Hz. This 7.3 Hz vibration is likely a byproduct of other resonances.
You have hit on some good points, most of which have been mentioned several times in the past.
Keep up the good work.
Quote from: z_p_e on December 21, 2007, 08:35:54 AM
dfro,
...
There are some problems.
- No induction occurs to the collector at 90?.
- Electron flow begins before the magnetic field builds.
- Flux cutting through the collector will not induce current in the collector. The orientation is out.
...
These comments are incorrect.
Grumpy
Would you care to expand on your comment
AM
Why does the physical shape of a sine wave have anyting to do here ive seen that sneaky wave guide shape on bep's, and recent model and when dfro says wind like your going around spokes .... As well grumpy's right induction will happen at 90 degress from the control coil so dont make this sound like dfro is off his rocker ... dfro's post broke down some key things a little further.. and well im sure as hell gonna make a loop in aduicaty of 4 tones matching that description and when you go looking for the tenth make sure you count natural half steps or dont.. ha figure that one out if you dont know anything about music theory :) and see what intervals may be good to use... wait only golden ones will give results...
According to Maxwell, and practical applications, in order for there to be magnetic flux, there must first be electron flow. They occur at the same time.
Prior to electron flow, there is only potential.. no B-field. Electron flow begins after one time constant of relaxation time, and from our perspective, that's almost instantaneous.
But feel free to indulge us and explain yourself grump. I am especially interested in your thoughts on 90? magnetic flux induction.
@zpe ive got a few ideas on how to prove it i'll be back with examples tongihte :)
Alright...Was that a trick question... the torridd.jpg explains how that happens... 3 layers one sandwiched in the middle controls wound on top and bottom but clockwise on one and cc on the other that way the magnetic pulse is left in the ring and the second winding on the lower ring same wire sends the pulse in the opposite direction...?
Quote from: AhuraMazda on December 21, 2007, 09:42:30 AM
Grumpy
Would you care to expand on your comment
AM
Doesn't seem like you'll get an answer AM. I wonder why?
Quote from: z_p_e on December 22, 2007, 12:56:56 AM
Quote from: AhuraMazda on December 21, 2007, 09:42:30 AM
Grumpy
Would you care to expand on your comment
AM
Doesn't seem like you'll get an answer AM. I wonder why?
I do not care to expand my comment except to reiterate that your comments are incorrect and you should verify them for yourselves.
You guys already know everything there is to know. You are experts in the field of "anomolous energy production".
Sweet, so let's all just build what otto suggested and get some real results! It looks good to me! Can't wait to get those frequency generators!
Quote from: Grumpy on December 22, 2007, 10:47:35 AM
Quote from: z_p_e on December 22, 2007, 12:56:56 AM
Quote from: AhuraMazda on December 21, 2007, 09:42:30 AM
Grumpy
Would you care to expand on your comment
AM
Doesn't seem like you'll get an answer AM. I wonder why?
I do not care to expand my comment except to reiterate that your comments are incorrect and you should verify them for yourselves.
You guys already know everything there is to know. You are experts in the field of "anomolous energy production".
That's rather evasive grump. Don't you think that those making claims that go
against conventional knowledge are the ones who must explain themselves if their ideas are to be accepted?
I do not need to verify this. I have done the
conventional experiment with two 90? coils....have you?
There is no magnetic flux coupling with this setup.
Can one cause the collector to "oscillate" by pulsing the toroid coils around it? Yes. Is it induction via magnetic flux? NO.
What value is added here by being coy and evasive? You can do better than that.
okey some night time reading again
rest are here http://magneticcurrent.blogspot.com/
@Zapnic
Leedskalnin's experiments were great, but his theory while supporting and explaining his experiments is a useful working model for some limited uses only, but nowhere near the true 'reality' of the situation, just like current electromagnetic, relativistic and thermodynamic theory isn't, you don't want to be taking his words to literally...
and look here, if you haven't already: http://www.coralcastlecode.com/index.html
A
Quote from: z_p_e on December 22, 2007, 11:26:44 AM
Quote from: Grumpy on December 22, 2007, 10:47:35 AM
Quote from: z_p_e on December 22, 2007, 12:56:56 AM
Quote from: AhuraMazda on December 21, 2007, 09:42:30 AM
Grumpy
Would you care to expand on your comment
AM
Doesn't seem like you'll get an answer AM. I wonder why?
I do not care to expand my comment except to reiterate that your comments are incorrect and you should verify them for yourselves.
You guys already know everything there is to know. You are experts in the field of "anomolous energy production".
That's rather evasive grump. Don't you think that those making claims that go against conventional knowledge are the ones who must explain themselves if their ideas are to be accepted?
I do not need to verify this. I have done the conventional experiment with two 90? coils....have you?
There is no magnetic flux coupling with this setup.
Can one cause the collector to "oscillate" by pulsing the toroid coils around it? Yes. Is it induction via magnetic flux? NO.
What value is added here by being coy and evasive? You can do better than that.
I had a nice long informative post, but deleted it. Perhaps I am being rather cynical, just a drama queen, or just don't give a rat's ass...
It's a big world out there - bigger than Maxwell, and bigger than magnetic induction - where the hell have you been for the last 100 years?
Look it up - that's what I did.
Grump,
You gave enough of a rat's ass to chime in and bluntly tell me I was wrong. Is a reason why too much to ask? Why even respond in the first place then?
No follow-ups, no hints or suggestions, no elaboration as AM requested, nothing except an evasive and now cynical and empty response.
Well, next time I won't bother asking.
Quote from: Grumpy on December 22, 2007, 11:12:41 PM
It's a big world out there - bigger than Maxwell, and bigger than magnetic induction
Grumpy,
I agree with you. So you don't want to show us your TPU design and you don't even want to share your ideas.
Perhaps next you will be removing all you past posts. Shame.
AM
Quote from: z_p_e on December 22, 2007, 11:46:52 PM
Grump,
You gave enough of a rat's ass to chime in and bluntly tell me I was wrong. Is a reason why too much to ask? Why even respond in the first place then?
No follow-ups, no hints or suggestions, no elaboration as AM requested, nothing except an evasive and now cynical and empty response.
Well, next time I won't bother asking.
Here is the point that you just made for me:
You stated something as fact and I pointed out that it was incorrect. Rather than explain, I told you to look outside of Maxwell and that there are other forms of induction (just like there are other means to couple two things together). You won't even expend the effort to do this, so why should I explain anything?
Many just want a "free energy" device. They do not want to learn anything, to discover anything, or to understand anything - especially if they have to work for it. Sure they chat on the forum, they build a few circuits, wind a few coils, but they never come to a true understanding of electricity.
dfro quotes:
QuoteWith the current flowing in the input coil, its magnetic flux induces a current and flux in the collector coil. Using the flux created in the collector coil is one of the secrets, I think.
QuoteWhen the fast, high voltage kick hits the first input coil and inducing current, its flux lines build and cut through the collector coil, causing current to be induced in the collector coil.
dfro,
This simply just does not occur with coils oriented 90? from one another. Fundamentally, this is incorrect, but if you have any thoughts on how this happens, by all means please express them.
QuoteThe magnetic flux has just spun 90 degrees and moved over from input coil 1 to vertical collector coil 1.
This sounds wonderful and would be great if it acted this way, but you failed to mention how or what causes the flux to rotate 90?.
QuoteWhen the kicks on coil 2 pull in the radiant energy current surge, that induces current and flux in the collector coil and the next adjacent vertical coil, which is wrapped in such a way that it induces current and flux in the next input coil (3).
"Wrapped in such a way" is the key here. This is the 90? rotation you speak of, but again merely saying that it can be done is not enough.
Many things can be "said" to make one's theory fit the mold, but unless there is something more concrete to back it up, it is just a wild theory, especially when it flies in the face of conventional bench-top practical experience.
But again, if you (or anyone) have some thoughts on how these actions may occur, please feel free to elaborate on them. We would sincerely be interested in your perspective.
Cheers
@z_p_e
I may not me the brightest EE around but I do know mag fields and you are absolutely right about coil to coil, will NOT transfer anything. You need an interface between them to transfer. People, just try it. Wind a bifilar air core and pulse only one of them. Nothing on the other. Now put an iron rod inside the core. Pulse, now see what happens.
If it was possible, then conductors in all electronic equipment would have to use shielded wires because every wire would affect every other wire. Circuit boards would not work. IC's would not work, memory chips and cpu's would not work.
Seems simple enough to understand.
wattsup,
You should actually get some induction from coil to coil with a bifilar winding. It's simply just a loosely-coupled air-core transformer.
Adding a flux-concentrating core allows better coupling and hence better induction from one to the other.
The point I've been trying to make all along here is the 90? orientation of coil1 with respect to coil2 is what nullifies the induction effect.
Hi all:
Anyone herer take notice that his last time on was November 29. He made "2" posts on the 27th and then was gone. No more to be seen. Nice way to start a thread out.
thaelin
Hi folks!
I just got back from a whirlwind tour of Europe. All work, no play ââ,¬â€œ still suffering jet-lag but I see terms like ââ,¬â,,¢90 degrees nullifies couplingââ,¬â,,¢, ââ,¬Ëœbench experienceââ,¬â,,¢, and thoughts of no inductive coupling between perpendicular coils.
I canââ,¬â,,¢t be quiet here because I just had these arguments with Dutch, French and German EEââ,¬â,,¢s. While I cannot go into details on the circuits I had to fix because of the ââ,¬Ëœupgradeââ,¬â,,¢ efforts of these people I will tell you this:
90 degree coil orientation minimizes conventional inductive coupling. It does not nullify it. Typical reduction is 30 dB, in ââ,¬Ëœfar-fieldââ,¬â,,¢ RF terms. Of course, most do not think in ââ,¬Ëœnear-fieldââ,¬â,,¢ terms. Coupling adjustment can be obtained by varying the spacing between the coils OR the orientation OR the relative position. Ever hear of ââ,¬Ëœseries and parallel aiding or opposingââ,¬â,,¢ or just aiding and opposing coupling? How about the fact that in near-field the magnetic component is dominant NOT the electric component? Old radios made in the early part of the 20th century that used variable orientation between coils to control resonance for tuning? No? I suppose not.
Conventional thought on coupling is to induce a like signal in the secondary. This is good when the coupled coils are parallel. Unconventional coupling is to induce a secondary signal unlike the primary. This secondary signal can only be the resonant frequency (and harmonics) of the secondary coil ââ,¬â€œ regardless of the primary frequency. This is done with perpendicular coupling.
Granted, the result is weak, especially when the designer continues to limit their thoughts by the book. There is nothing wrong or new about the physics. The book is only a starting point. It is NOT the answer.
The way to enhance the power from the secondary I see as the following:
The higher the primary signal voltage (not Amps) the stronger the induced ââ,¬Ëœringingââ,¬â,,¢ of the secondary.
If you control the primary pulse width to the point that the primary signal fall aids the ringing of the secondary instead of dampens it you enhance the ringing.
If the secondary is resonate at some harmonic of the primary the energy output of the secondary can be improved without increasing the power drawn through the primary.
It is no different than striking a tuning fork or ringing a bell. No matter what frequency you hit them they will vibrate at their resonance and over/undertones.
If you donââ,¬â,,¢t control the pulse width to aid the ringing it is the same as pushing a child in a swing and not timing your pushes to aid the swinging.
Yes, there is such a thing as perpendicular induction. Maybe there is some secret name for it other than induction. I donââ,¬â,,¢t know. Keep denying it and some poor slob will be forced to fly during holidays and fix the problem.
Every time I see implied ââ,¬ËœLaws of Physicsââ,¬â,,¢ it pisses me off. There are no laws ââ,¬â€œ only our interpretations of what was written and the interpretations of the observer. Too many seem to think the observations made decades ago just canââ,¬â,,¢t be incorrect or incomplete OR EVEN WORSE ââ,¬â€œ applies to all variations of phenomena. To that I say ââ,¬â€œ stay where you are comfortable ââ,¬â€œ enjoy the show. Iââ,¬â,,¢ll be glad to set my bench afire just to learn more. It is already charred.
Bench experience? Yea, right. Have you ever run into an odd signal in a line of amp stages that just didnââ,¬â,,¢t fit the band intended to be amplified? Usually near the BFO or mixer stage? Well guess what. The coils in these ââ,¬Ëœseparate stagesââ,¬â,,¢ are usually oriented for ââ,¬Ëœnullifying the couplingââ,¬â,,¢ between them. The signal is coming from somewhere. It ainââ,¬â,,¢t just ââ,¬Ëœnoiseââ,¬â,,¢.
When you strike a bell with a hammer the sound of the bell is so much louder and longer than the hammer strike. Also it isnââ,¬â,,¢t transverse.
Simple solution to any argument: Prove or disprove on your own bench. Make sure you look close. Do this EVEN if the book says it is true or false. If you did it before under tutelage, try it again and look closer.
I donââ,¬â,,¢t know the secrets to this thing but Iââ,¬â,,¢m having a blast learning more. Iââ,¬â,,¢m over half/century for some time now and the learning is even more fun.
I canââ,¬â,,¢t wait to see what the South Americans think of some old lunatic running around flushing toilets and recording which direction the water twirls! Only now I also have my little piece of resin to twirl on the desk. So far everywhere in the Northern hemisphere it prefers to go counter-clockwise. This is not possible according to ââ,¬ËœThe BOOKââ,¬â,,¢.
While I have great respect for work done by many hereââ,¬Â¦.
BOOK thumpers can eat my shorts :)
I wish the rest the best of enjoyment of whatever holiday is current or coming for them! After some eggnog Iââ,¬â,,¢ll be exploding some caps for goof measure.
BEP
BEP, that was a great post and it couldn't be any better said. The things you are finding out have already been found out but they have been hid from us. We are just now starting to collect all these things that have been hid from us and more up us are starting to use our common sense to understand things a bit better.
It is obvious that electricity is nothing more then a collection of vibrations created from frequencies which were created by a resistance between two objects. It could be wind, it could be other frequencies from the opposite direction, it could be from explosions from the sun, or it could come from a combination of all. Regardless where they are from, they are still frequencies and frequencies are what we need to collect and or create to produce electricity for us to utilize as a main power source.
:D
BEP,
When I later saw you were online, I KNEW you would be posting something here in an attempt to derail everything I've said here. I expected nothing less from you.
You can jabber whatever you want regarding your experience and my experience, and how much "outside the book" you know and have learned (or at least think you have), but the bottom line is as I already stated it twice now, and am getting tired of it, is magnetic coupling does not occur between two orthogonal coils...period! If you want to get nitpicky with perfection, go right ahead and fill your boots.....I don't think dfro was going to that degree, and neither was I.In general this is the case.There is a reason inductive components are placed orthogonal to each other when interference needs to be minimized.
Good grief, folks love to nitpick! Nullify, minimize....take a pill my friend. The world isn't going to end because these two terms were used to say essentially the same thing.
I have done your experiment with orthogonal coils.I have seen the resulting output on the other coil.I know about the timing and resonance.
Let go of the "you're stuck with your head in the books" idea about me. If it was so, I would not be here right? Perhaps you and others have completely missed the point (and also already destroyed it by now) that I was trying to coax an answer from the author of this thread. Trying not only to get him to think about it, but to respond as well. But as usual, these threads are hijacked and derailed by jack-asses that have nothing better to do than barge in and jump all over folks when they see an opportunity to flex their so-called esoteric brain tissue to prove they can think outside the box.
Well, you folks enjoy and revel in your all-knowingness. Meanwhile, I and a few other folks will just stand by and let y'all continue going in circles, as it seems you so much relish doing.
Merry xmas
QuoteMany just want a "free energy" device. They do not want to learn anything, to discover anything, or to understand anything - especially if they have to work for it.
well captured :) ... I am wondering if there were no TPU will be people willing to learn, I hope yes ...
Hansvonlieven posted this link on another thread and you all may want to check it out before continuing to argue as some are.
http://www.mondovista.com/meyers/
Quote from: BEP on December 23, 2007, 02:45:10 PM
Hi folks!
I just got back from a whirlwind tour of Europe. All work, no play ? still suffering jet-lag but I see terms like ?90 degrees nullifies coupling?, ?bench experience?, and thoughts of no inductive coupling between perpendicular coils.
I can?t be quiet here because I just had these arguments with Dutch, French and German EE?s. While I cannot go into details on the circuits I had to fix because of the ?upgrade? efforts of these people I will tell you this:
90 degree coil orientation minimizes conventional inductive coupling. It does not nullify it. Typical reduction is 30 dB, in ?far-field? RF terms. Of course, most do not think in ?near-field? terms. Coupling adjustment can be obtained by varying the spacing between the coils OR the orientation OR the relative position. Ever hear of ?series and parallel aiding or opposing? or just aiding and opposing coupling? How about the fact that in near-field the magnetic component is dominant NOT the electric component? Old radios made in the early part of the 20th century that used variable orientation between coils to control resonance for tuning? No? I suppose not.
Conventional thought on coupling is to induce a like signal in the secondary. This is good when the coupled coils are parallel. Unconventional coupling is to induce a secondary signal unlike the primary. This secondary signal can only be the resonant frequency (and harmonics) of the secondary coil ? regardless of the primary frequency. This is done with perpendicular coupling.
Granted, the result is weak, especially when the designer continues to limit their thoughts by the book. There is nothing wrong or new about the physics. The book is only a starting point. It is NOT the answer.
The way to enhance the power from the secondary I see as the following:
The higher the primary signal voltage (not Amps) the stronger the induced ?ringing? of the secondary.
If you control the primary pulse width to the point that the primary signal fall aids the ringing of the secondary instead of dampens it you enhance the ringing.
If the secondary is resonate at some harmonic of the primary the energy output of the secondary can be improved without increasing the power drawn through the primary.
It is no different than striking a tuning fork or ringing a bell. No matter what frequency you hit them they will vibrate at their resonance and over/undertones.
If you don?t control the pulse width to aid the ringing it is the same as pushing a child in a swing and not timing your pushes to aid the swinging.
Yes, there is such a thing as perpendicular induction. Maybe there is some secret name for it other than induction. I don?t know. Keep denying it and some poor slob will be forced to fly during holidays and fix the problem.
Every time I see implied ?Laws of Physics? it pisses me off. There are no laws ? only our interpretations of what was written and the interpretations of the observer. Too many seem to think the observations made decades ago just can?t be incorrect or incomplete OR EVEN WORSE ? applies to all variations of phenomena. To that I say ? stay where you are comfortable ? enjoy the show. I?ll be glad to set my bench afire just to learn more. It is already charred.
Bench experience? Yea, right. Have you ever run into an odd signal in a line of amp stages that just didn?t fit the band intended to be amplified? Usually near the BFO or mixer stage? Well guess what. The coils in these ?separate stages? are usually oriented for ?nullifying the coupling? between them. The signal is coming from somewhere. It ain?t just ?noise?.
When you strike a bell with a hammer the sound of the bell is so much louder and longer than the hammer strike. Also it isn?t transverse.
Simple solution to any argument: Prove or disprove on your own bench. Make sure you look close. Do this EVEN if the book says it is true or false. If you did it before under tutelage, try it again and look closer.
I don?t know the secrets to this thing but I?m having a blast learning more. I?m over half/century for some time now and the learning is even more fun.
I can?t wait to see what the South Americans think of some old lunatic running around flushing toilets and recording which direction the water twirls! Only now I also have my little piece of resin to twirl on the desk. So far everywhere in the Northern hemisphere it prefers to go counter-clockwise. This is not possible according to ?The BOOK?.
While I have great respect for work done by many here?.
BOOK thumpers can eat my shorts :)
I wish the rest the best of enjoyment of whatever holiday is current or coming for them! After some eggnog I?ll be exploding some caps for goof measure.
BEP
Best post of the day! Keep it up BEP!
well i would like to help you all out but
as grumpy mentioned things come only with hard work
i have said many things on this site and many things i said were wrong how ever
also many things i have done and said are so verry true lol
there does not have to be 90 deg to get this to work ;) does a nuke spinn? lol
go do your home work as i have done mine
i had NO free hand outs on this journey and i learned far more than i really would have though in the process of learning
just too wild!
ist
@Those who believe The Books are bull.
If you had a brain tumor that needed to be removed whom would you choose to remove it.
(a) A trained and qualified neurosurgeon who had studied a whole heap.
or
(b) Someone who has casually picked up some nice sounding medical terms from Readers Digest
and intends to use 'common sense' as the basis for brain surgery.
ERS
thanks nightlife, very interesting and relevant. I see he uses iron wire.
every time I hear people talking about Meyers, I thought they were talking about Stanley and his water cell, so this is a surprise for me.
In figure 8 of his patent is the simplest device by which he discovered the effect. So simple to build. Did anybody build this and try it?
EM
Quote from: nightlife on December 23, 2007, 03:33:17 PM
Hansvonlieven posted this link on another thread and you all may want to check it out before continuing to argue as some are.
http://www.mondovista.com/meyers/
@EM
4549raymond said he tried it with no success ... A friend and I recently built Roy Meyers accumulator but we could not get it to work
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3403.345 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3403.345)
He's still around so maybe send him a PM ....
tak
thanks guys,
I just played around with some iron wire and magnets and copper wire, and digital voltmeter, and I can see a small voltage (0.5 V) when I touch things with my hand. It's definitely galvanic action (chemical), and different metals make a difference.
So, I'm thinking this is simply a galvanic action type of a device, even though he says in his patent that it's not motional or chemical, but I think it's chemical all right, but not in the sense of a lead acid battery like what Meyers was probably thinking. Dissimilar metals with different electro-negativities will produce a voltage at their junction, and he is using iron and zinc, and what do they use zinc for? to prevent rusting through galvanic action.
It would have been nice if it was some sort of generator based on the earth magnetic field, etc.. :(
EM
hummmm
zink not much mention of that material at all
lol anybody know what the resonant freq for zink is?
what might happin if you set it into resosnance
i have not played with zink at all
however if you know anything about zink you would know there is free engery there all the time in the form of electricty
hummmmm
ist
i have done 0 reserch on zink perhaps the time is now!!
Zinc (pronounced /ˈzɪÃ...‹k/, from German: Zink) is a metallic chemical element with the symbol Zn and atomic number 30. In some historical and sculptural contexts, it is (or was) known as spelter.
Zinc is a moderately reactive, bluish-white metal that tarnishes in moist air and burns in air with a bright bluish-green flame, giving off plumes of zinc oxide. It reacts with acids, alkalis and other non-metals. If not completely pure, zinc reacts with dilute acids to release hydrogen. The one common oxidation state of zinc is +2. From 100 ?C to 210 ?C (212 ?F to 410 ?F) zinc metal is malleable and can easily be beaten into various shapes. Above 210 ?C (410 ?F), the metal becomes brittle and will be pulverized by beating. Zinc is nonmagnetic.
History
ZincIn ancient India the production of zinc metal was very common. Many mine sites of Zawar Mines, near Udaipur, Rajasthan;-Zawarmaala were active even during 1300?1000 BC. There are references of medicinal uses of zinc in the Charaka Samhita (300 BC). The Rasaratna Samuccaya (800 AD) explains the existence of two types of ores for zinc metal, one of which is ideal for metal extraction while the other is used for medicinal purpose.[citation needed] Zinc alloys have been used for centuries, as brass goods dating to 1400?1000 BC have been found in Israel and zinc objects with 87% zinc have been found in prehistoric Transylvania. Because of the low boiling point and high chemical reactivity of this metal (isolated zinc would tend to go up the chimney rather than be captured), the true nature of this metal was not understood in ancient times.
The manufacture of brass was known to the Ebi by about 30 BC, using a technique where calamine and copper were heated together in a crucible. The zinc oxides in calamine were reduced, and the free zinc metal was trapped by the copper, forming an alloy. The resulting calamine brass was either cast or hammered into shape.
Smelting and extraction of impure forms of zinc was accomplished as early as 1000 AD in India and China. In the West, impure zinc as a remnant in melting ovens was known since Antiquity, but usually discarded as worthless. Strabo mentions it as pseudo-arguros ? "mock silver". The Berne zinc tablet is a votive plaque dating to Roman Gaul, probably made from such zinc remnants.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc
Quote from: EMdevices on December 23, 2007, 10:09:45 PM
thanks guys,
I just played around with some iron wire and magnets and copper wire, and digital voltmeter, and I can see a small voltage (0.5 V) when I touch things with my hand. It's definitely galvanic action (chemical), and different metals make a difference.
So, I'm thinking this is simply a galvanic action type of a device, even though he says in his patent that it's not motional or chemical, but I think it's chemical all right, but not in the sense of a lead acid battery like what Meyers was probably thinking. Dissimilar metals with different electro-negativities will produce a voltage at their junction, and he is using iron and zinc, and what do they use zinc for? to prevent rusting through galvanic action.
It would have been nice if it was some sort of generator based on the earth magnetic field, etc.. :(
EM
Weird man... Something possesed me to try that the other night a small 2 inch by 2 inch square of copper and a zinc skrew gave me like .7 v. and started climing i wonder what the resistance of it is and if theres any current ..... would sure make that whole Egyptian septer thing a little easier to stomach. Imagining all the pictures i've seen im my life and reference in stories throughout historyof some thing holding an object similar to a wand with both hands and a gem in it..........
Ancient cultures may not have had led's and autos but they did have control. Think of how the pharo was viewed? As a god himself, or at least one step down the ladder.
All it would take it to have bolts of electricity/lightning and it would scare the hell out of the common masses. May have been crude, but effective.
thaelin
@ Grumpy
I found this in another frourm from peter lindman .. this guy filled in a few gaps for me.
The most important thing to understand in all of this is that all of these phenomena follow ELECTROMAGNETIC INDUCTION LAWS. Currents are induced in relationship to the strength of the magnetic field and voltages are induced based on the rate-of-change of that flux. In standard transformer operations, voltages in the output winding (secondary) cannot exceed the voltage in the input winding (primary) times the turns ratio between the primary and the secondary.
The appearance of the very short duration, very high voltage transient, when the current powering an inductor on DC is shut OFF, does not follow these Laws, especially on CLOSE OBSERVATION. John Bedini has spent 30 years studying this situation and has articulated most accurately the conditions to maximize the production of this voltage spike. I refer to this situation as the energy of "the inductive collapse", since that distinguishes it from other varieties of CEMFs. The voltage producing phenomena produces a different QUALITY of electricity, according to the "Method of Conversion" described by Tesla. In fact, charging and discharging an inductor is the FIRST STEP in Tesla's "Method of Conversion" and the first step in the process of producing PURE Radiant Energy.
According to Tesla, the "fast transient phenomena" is a Longitudinal Wave, a time compressed zone of electrostatic charge or pure voltage, traveling ahead of the electron current. It appears BEFORE the current starts moving and is separate and distinct from it..... This answers how something could beat the electrons there .
This view was also very helpful
Dollard used large vacuum triodes for his Magnifying Transmitter, and glass enclosed hydrogen spark arresters for the other BSRF demonstrations.
But let's start at the beginning. What was Tesla trying to do? He was trying to produce a simple DC square-wave pulse train. But he didn't have ANY electronic control devices. No 555 timer chips. No transistors. No vacuum tubes. He only had coils, capacitors, mechanical contacters, and spark gaps.
So, what does Tesla's longitudinal electrostatic wave-front look like? It looks like a DC square-wave pulse train where the pulse repetition rate is one million impulses per second, the duty-cycle is 10% On and 90% OFF, and the voltage in each impulse is 50,000 volts DC or more. This is what Tesla wants the circuit to do. This is what he wants to create by the discharge of his capacitor stage in the circuit.
So, if the spark gap is his "circuit controller" then he only wants a "single crack" each time the capacitor discharges. Just a single, unidirectional impulse of electrostatic charge to proceed forward before the circuit shuts off again. Then, the capacitor can charge up again for the 900 nanoseconds the spark gap is quiet and then discharge all of the stored energy again in 100 nanoseconds. Then repeat indefinitely.
****NOTE WELL****It creates a "staccato of electrostatic bursts." NOTE WELL*** Don't make this mysterious, because it is not. It is no more difficult to understand than the output of a 555 timer chip. Its just that we are talking about very high voltage DC, and very high pulse repetition rates. What is difficult is finding the circuit components that allow you to create these conditions without self-destructing!
In my Tesla's Radiant Energy DVD I go through all of Tesla's patents and discuss the various methods he used. They included spark gaps quenched by magnets, spark gaps quenched by blasts of hot air, spark gaps in insulating oil, spark gaps across rotating contacters. All of these methods work to one degree or another.
In the 1920's, as vacuum tubes started becoming available, John Bedini and I are convinced that Tesla went to Lee DeForest and had him build the first experimental Thyratrons. This is a family of circuit controlling devices specifically designed to conduct a unidirectional impulse, only when triggered, and then automatically shut off when the voltage drops to ZERO. This is most easily seen today in the function of the Thyrister, the simplest of which is the SCR. The problem with SCRs today is that they are not designed to shut OFF fast enough for the purposes of these circuits.
This seemed to be pretty relevant
Joe
@Zinc/Copper Powder know as KDF
We use this in our water treatment industry to promote ferrous iron, sulfur and manganese oxidation into ferric form in order to then filter these from the water source. This is also used to neutralize chlorine plus this is a bacteriostatic media that prevents the growth of bacteria inside the media. Actually I have some of this on hand and am wondering if the OTPU rings could be made with this material using a binding agent since there develops an electro-potential between these materials.
Link http://www.kdfft.com
@wattsup
The KDFFT info is very welcome here. Thanks. We live in a small community with a community well. BAD rust problems but not filterable until you agitate the water. I'll be contacting them.
---------
As far as the brain surgeon analogy - it is correct. I should have limited my post to something like 'If you don't know or believe or aren't sure then prove/disprove it to yourself'.
Unfortunately I was still ticked from putting the supposed tumor back so the patient could be revived then pointing the real problem out to the brain surgeons. They still don't believe me but the patient (communications system) is back to normal there.
I meant no disrespect to any individual or their work. My experiments in 'ringing the bell' with perpendicular induction follow current physics but I have never seen this in physics or electronics books. The method is being used in read/write/erase heads and sensors. I hope to apply it to power conversion.
BEP
hummm
0 control joe
hummmm
lol
ist
@BEP (sorry if off topic)
With over 25 years experience in water treatment I can give you some guidelines to identify the iron type in your well since there are three major types, ferric, colloidal and bacterial iron.
Basically if you draw your water in a good sized clear bottle and if the water comes out clear, then just leave the bottle somewhere for 3-4 days. Eventually the water will change color and do one of the following.
Ferric Iron - Iron falls to the bottom of the bottle as a fine power.
Colloidal Iron - Iron stays in solution as an orange color and does not settle.
Bacterial Iron - Iron settles to the bottom but is clumped together in filaments.
All these iron types require different ways of treatment.
If you ever get a complete water analysis done, send me the results along with the water flow rate required and I can give you an idea on treatment. Whatever you do, if the water has manganese, children in their formative years should not take showers since this is a heavy metal that when vaporized in the shower, children breath in and it goes directly to the brain. Long term effects can be learning disabilities and conditions related to tremor type physical effects.
@Innovation Station
The spark Gap is the brain ... there is control were do you see no control.
Quote from: Localjoe on December 25, 2007, 04:00:27 PM
...This is a family of circuit controlling devices specifically designed to conduct a unidirectional impulse, only when triggered, and then automatically shut off when the voltage drops to ZERO. This is most easily seen today in the function of the Thyrister, the simplest of which is the SCR. The problem with SCRs today is that they are not designed to shut OFF fast enough for the purposes of these circuits.
So, would any non-SCR Thyristor do the job, or are none of today's Thyristors able to shut OFF fast enough for the purposes of these circuits?
;)
when i have spoke of control in the past
what was ment was shit control
i list
tubes
solid state
relays
switches
hummmmmm
control oh i think so
when you look at ORBIT where is the control lol
there is no need for control
and hummmm a spark gap use it if you think you need it lol
in fact i have done many tests witch i will not share with any of you at this point
why
cuz i have seen no one at the same point as me when some of you finally get there then i will talk of the tests i have done and expose my tpu design with out control meaning not even a spark gap
isteam!!
catch up already
@Ist
Did you even grasp the things that i posted? If you are so far advanced why not discuss them and explain why your ideas or what not are so much better. Misleading comments in the dark help no one. Mine were thoughtful and informative.
Joe
why not start where you were told to start then read between the lines
hummmm
this is what i did and this is exactly where this idea came from
i will not give the answers
you must do it for your selfs
its all there in black and white if your eyes are open to see it
i almost cant be bothered any more with helping this site out anymore than i already have i am currently building what you see in the pattends what you all dont see in the pattends is what i have seen in real life and in my mind and what i have designed
so give up secreates that the world has not seen yet or if they have it is not spoken of
so why post it here so people can make guns that kill
ya i dont think so
ist
im outtie
@rosphere
Well its says The Thyratrons did the same function as the new scr's the only diff i'm seeing is it is a vacuum tube as opposed to solid state. The need to go to the quick off state is necessary because of the duty cycle timing 10 on 90 off and the "staccato of electrostatic bursts" that happen in the 10 percent thats on. Take those concepts and read this sentence twice ... i think we found our answer.
"Currents are induced in relationship to the strength of the magnetic field *** More wire .. larger feild**** And voltages are induced based on the "rate-of-change of that flux". Rate of change... duty cycle .. 10 on 90 off and a "staccato of electrostatic bursts" that happen in the 10 percent thats it is on.
Tell me what you think
Joe
Sounds like I_S has heard some gossip again.
He is correct that a spark gap is not required, nor are mosfets, or tubes, etc. - not that these would not work as they may.
Precision is required, however.
You are right grumpy but when i try to understand the workings of things i always like to follow the path once shown and take what wisdom i can from it. To then better understand how those ways were made better and the shortfalls that were experienced along the path... Just gives ya better picture in your head when your done... And if your so close minded IS that you cant see that gk's device could be used for many things other than matter disintegration then you should stay in canada and have fun with your teams and secrets hope it gets you somewhere. And when your outa cell pone range trapped somewhere i'm sure your going to be praying to god that you had one of gk's bfg's to phone home.
Quote from: Grumpy on December 26, 2007, 04:22:51 PM
Sounds like I_S has heard some gossip again.
He is correct that a spark gap is not required, nor are mosfets, or tubes, etc. - not that these would not work as they may.
Precision is required, however.
See its funny IS couldn't even tell me the inductance rating on a few of his coils he had built and i asked him if he had a cap tester or lc meter or if he could find something to measure the milli henry value and he told me that he had a little selection on his meter labeled ma.. i replied thats milli amps....He did not know what reading i was talking about and once i explained it hes insisted it didn't matter... Funny! How else would you make a piece of wire tuned to a resonate freq of an iron core without cutting the length, measuring inductance and then testing for resonate freq? I mean after reading what sm went through cutting the wire little by little you think he might have written down the wire gauge length and inductance rating so when he got it right he could do it again without guessing....
i know i am damm right
doubt it if you must
i have removed my doubt
ist
@ grumpy of course all of the above mentined things will work but agin none of them are required ;D
if some one knows what i am speeking of speek up
if not i guess you know what you must do
I am going to try to buid a tpu that uses no kicker windings. I experimented with these windings and what they do is setup a longitudanal electric field wave. So they initiate current in the attractor winding. By timing the pulses you start to get resonating energy release into the ring. It is just like a kid paddling water on the outside of an above ground pool. Pretty soon the water is going around and around like crazy from just introducing a little bit of energy at the right time. Mystical wave properties? Golden mean wave interference? No, just an electrical current in a closed loop conductor, this current built up by supplying and storing small amounts of energy. The real deal is when you look at what you have when there is an electric current in a ring conductor with no metal around it. Below is a picture of how a magnetic field would build up around a ringed conductor. This field would build-up with just pure DC supplied to initiate the attractor current. When ambient energy waves encounter the magnetic field around the tpu one of two things happen. First they could be guided by the mag shell to the inside of the tpu winding where they bend the magnetic lines of force enough to let their energy into the ring current. Or they react with the mag shell enough to distort it's field strength. Now what you have is a conductor (attractor winding) lying within a changing magnetic field, which always seems to result in an electrical current flow. There is a distortion of the magnetic field near the conductor. This is pretty much what happens when a prime mover moves a permanent magnet through the magnetic field around the output windings in an alternator. Or a primary winding changes the magnetic field in a transformer core around which the secondary winding is wrapped. CHANGE THE MAGNETIC LINES OF FORCE NEAR A CONDUCTOR - GET ELECTRICITY TO FLOW This is a very simple explanation of the TPU working dynamics but it is the best I have to offer.
There seems to be a significant amount of work going into Steven Mark TPU devices. Since
I know nothing about this dude I would be grateful for some information.
Who is Steven Mark?
Where is he?
Does he post here under another name?
ERS
Quote from: innovation_station on December 26, 2007, 05:57:31 PM
i know i am damm right
doubt it if you must
i have removed my doubt
ist
@ grumpy of course all of the above mentined things will work but agin none of them are required ;D
if some one knows what i am speeking of speek up
if not i guess you know what you must do
Why should anyone speak up?
Quote from: Evil Roy Slade on December 26, 2007, 10:01:36 PM
...
Who is Steven Mark?
Where is he?
Does he post here under another name?
ERS
The answers to these questions are not important.
You cant make jokes like that without even cracking a smile :o... Im roflmao.. silent humor kinda like how all the scientists in the last year had a conference on whether we should consider Pluto part of our solar system.... that should be a high priority .... instead of actually getting out there in a craft ... genius at work
well i guess it will remain un spoken
as it has for the last 100 or so years
no problem
the world is probaly better off this way any ways
as so few are ready 4 it
so be it .....
ist
Quote from: Grumpy on December 26, 2007, 10:26:58 PM
The answers to these questions are not important.
@Grumpy
If you don't know the answers then stay silent.
I will decide the importance of MY questions. You get your own dude.
ERS
Quote from: Localjoe on December 26, 2007, 04:34:13 PM
You are right grumpy but when i try to understand the workings of things i always like to follow the path once shown and take what wisdom i can from it. To then better understand how those ways were made better and the shortfalls that were experienced along the path... Just gives ya better picture in your head when your done... And if your so close minded IS that you cant see that gk's device could be used for many things other than matter disintegration then you should stay in canada and have fun with your teams and secrets hope it gets you somewhere. And when your outa cell pone range trapped somewhere i'm sure your going to be praying to god that you had one of gk's bfg's to phone home.
i might as well respond to this just cuz I CAN!!
lets talk about guns and there uses
first there is a super powerful purpulltion system patended far better cheeper and much safer then what you mention joe
and i think i read some where it has 1000 or was it 10 000 x the power of a jet engine hummm so agin why re invent the damm wheel and make it far more complicated than it ever needs to be yea....
well if i was into wepens i will tell you this i could with such ease invent the most powerful wepons this world has seen but why arent there enough guns already im sure there many and all the harm they have done why even think the word guns in canada we are peace keepers know why cuz we be burn'in thats why
in fact i may actually build 1 of my cannons verry soon it will fire lighting lol but will not be used as such a device it may have a more humaine use as mechanical work or shall i just out and say it as the motor of all motors
oh yea this too with out retatred control circuritry lol
no 3 freqs or any of that shit just push the damm button nevermind wateing to wind up and charge up and all that nonsence
hell just hold the button and have an electric laser the question is why
but i wont do this cuz this world does not need any more damm guns does it ?
i suspose i could even go so far as to make a whistle for the exact freqs of conversion you blow the whistle and see what happins somthing is telling me you will never even know what has happined
enough about what i really can or could do
what can you do ?? is the question can you study ?? can you even think of catching up ?? i know right now beond any doubt this that i have said can not be proven wrong
here is a picture of what guns do hope it makes you all feel like men and makes you proud to build guns >:( knowing right well what they will be used for
btw if it is a purpulson system call it 1 dont call it a big f**King gun Duh!!!
now if you are man enough look at this link and see what guns have done >:(
http://mindprod.com/politics/iraqwarpix.html
dont it make you HURT espically knowing there was absultly no reason 4 this to take place
yet we still build damm guns
if that wasent enough 4 you here are more
http://www.chris-floyd.com/war/
there so many more but the ones i show are more than most can handlle
in this picture i show here imagine it was your baby you are holding him and your family crying behind you
feel like a man now?? yea i thought so......... wise the hell up...... as i said b4 there 2 path we can walk we all choose our own but we all know there is only 1 right 1 8)
ist
Greed brought guns about and I am here trying to find away to help resolve our problems with big money greed by taking their power away and giving it back to the average like it should be.
I am against guns and all for education. It's hard to educate and then turn around and praise what we educate against. We are defeating the whole purpose of educating. I say we because here in USA, we the average are supposed to be in control but thanks to our greed and education, we are not in control nor will we ever be due to a select few of power hungry big money people that control our country as well as all country's. Big money thrives off our greed to be lazy.
We the people of the world, need to come together and put these greedy power hungry people out of business and the only way we can do that is to build free energy devices so we are not dependant on them and stop buying things from large corporations until they can operate fairly. When I say fairly, I mean paying their employees properly, using quality craftsmanship, using quality materials and operating under the same guidelines as the other corporations around the world have to.
These devices we are all trying to build and or have built have already been built but because of greedy big money, we are not privileged enough to have them to use because big money cant make big money off of them like they do oil and other energy producing products.
Please don't post any more pictures like that because those pictures just add to the hundreds of others stuck in my head and just makes me that much more upset with humanity. We could change things if we would just stop being so damn greedy.
yes the truth HURTS
those pictures are a damm WAKE UP CALL
i hope we are NOW awake
just waite
i know this countrys turn will come too as sad as that is it is the truth
with every action there are reactions
i beleave you could call this a chain reaction
so some of you here try to cut me up and say im close minded HA nope as i would call it wize minded
build your guns that wont ever work proper if this is your goal just know in the end where you will go
and also know you can never look me in the eye and tell me why i have just told you all why not to build guns
life is far to valueable to waste with guns
the funny thing is the creator of thease things does not have big enough balls to talk to me HE WILL NEVER LOOK ME IN THE EYE
he will be saying bye bye miss americian pie you cant get water from me cuz our wells are dry so good bye good bye little unsweetened americian pie our country has turned to a dessert cuz our wells are dry
so be it we all get what we deserve.......
this is the way life flows ~~~~~~ this is the way it all goes........
be wizer
isteam!!
1 more thing next time you put canada down just remember where your water comes form also who has the largest oil reserves copper and gold fresh water trees and all the good stuff you use every day with out a thought yes you all know who that country is it is canada
funny thing a town 45 min from me just so happin to set up a concentration camp in the last few days with 17' fences and razer wire in the name of terrosiom yet more lies that control our lives
now i see this in my country kinda makes you feel just how real all of this is
for thouse of you that thought you would not see this in this life think agin it is takeing place as we speek
wakie wakie did you get your eggs and bakie 2day ?
perhaps the time is now to stop and think ..........
Quote from: Evil Roy Slade on December 26, 2007, 11:50:50 PM
Quote from: Grumpy on December 26, 2007, 10:26:58 PM
The answers to these questions are not important.
@Grumpy
If you don't know the answers then stay silent.
I will decide the importance of MY questions. You get your own dude.
ERS
Knowing those answers will not help build or understand a TPU - they will just add to the soap opera.
@ I_S - ready or not it will come none-the-less
grumpy my friend this i know
there is no stoping this thease are the end days
i ask you all kindly to fight the good fight not the bad one
i need not say any more
ist
1 more thing creativity has the power to change the world or destory it ......
I have to add to this. I hate guns, but I think they are necessary. Weapons will always be around and if you pass laws to remove peoples guns the only people that will have them is your government and criminals who do not follow the law. Both of these groups are by nature bad so it is not only your right, but your duty to carry a gun to protect yourself and your fellow citizens from both criminals and the government.
How many lives would have been saved if just one person in the crowd had a gun in the columbine, va tech or omaha mall shootings? An example of a good outcome is the current colorado church shootings. There would have been many more killed, but the church had armed security guards that took out the shooter before he could do more damage. Do you see this in the media? No because they don't want you to know that guns can also used for good. If you do not see this you are in denial.
When it comes to government you want it to fear its people. Before any dictator takes over throughout history he disarms his people. This is the way it has always been and this is the way it will always be. Once again it is not only your right, but you duty to protect yourself and your fellow citizens.
So innovation station has clearly stated now that he will use gk's bfg for a gun not a communication device or rock boring apparatus..
You make from life what you will and all of that is your choice. But you go on thinking you have some secret with orbit current .. you sent me a diagram that you claimed secret people only 5 in the world knew ... just for that i should dump you hd and make it go click click click but i wont be vengeful as long as you stop acting like a big shot...
Everyone here is hard at work and if you choose not to be or hold back what you think you know .. great but this constant BRAGGING .. Then insisting that people hide things on this forum privately.. You were that kid in school who got screwed with and you have a little tension left over..
Get over it be real and share what you know ... The first time you told me to hide shit from people IS i thought you had a reason .. you dont .. your just some guy that has no money and gets yelled at daily for it by the wife.. not my problem so unless you have constructive comments for the real ideas ive posted here go piss up a rope. O I will continue to respond to you like this. mabey get a job and continue what your doing here and you wont feel that stress coming at you about hiding shit and the SECRET LIFE you think you lead.
yes all .......i can not lie i have lived a tough life
and continue to do so
playing the big shot that is not a goal of mine to help to point the way to the real answers is all i have done after i got done playing sm's games
so what ever ....... some people get angry when they were told to study others study and find answers others like the lazy ones just want the answers with out putting in all the hard work that some have
if they wanted the answers to be public im sure they would be
dont ya think
ist
Quote from: innovation_station on December 27, 2007, 12:37:21 PM
playing the big shot that is not a goal of mine to help to point the way to the real answers is all i have done after i got done playing sm's games
so what ever ....... some people get angry when they were told to study others study and find answers others like the lazy ones just want the answers with out putting in all the hard work that some have
You sound like you didn't like sm's "games" and you are telling others to study and find answers. If you really have the answers why put everyone else through the games. Why not simply open up another thread and start your own class to get others up to speed. At the same time you can give some moral advice and safety pointers if you like. If you really know what your doing you can have a whole free energy army out there changing the world for the better.
yes i did enjoy sm's games lol
ask your self why the games
i have many threds already here
many go a miss
by most the ones that know remain silent
for damm good reason
ist
How did that turbine you were going to be rich with go.. i seemed to remember reading all that and laughing at the failure... have fun selling all your ideas IS.. Hope they work eventually. To bad your too scared to post whatever you think you know so it can be debated... and understood.. or wait did you not take the time study and is that why you couldn't tell me what an inductance rating was and why i would want to know that mh rating for a coil... I must be the stupid one for asking those outlandish questions.
...and here goes another thread ... sinking into oblivion...
Well were my questions so out of contex about the thyratron and the fast scr shut off time .. im just trying to learn the paths people have gone down and IS is here telling me im stupid for doing that and he kows the answer .. so why would someone not carry on the intelligent conversation i started and addressed to you grumpy?
These comments are very close to things dfro posted in his first post on this thread so i will say again does anyone feel like discussing these things ..
Well its says The Thyratrons did the same function as the new scr's the only diff i'm seeing is it is a vacuum tube as opposed to solid state. The need to go to the quick off state is necessary because of the duty cycle timing 10 on 90 off and the "staccato of electrostatic bursts" that happen in the 10 percent thats on. Take those concepts and read this sentence twice ... i think we found our answer.
"Currents are induced in relationship to the strength of the magnetic field *** More wire .. larger feild**** And voltages are induced based on the "rate-of-change of that flux". Rate of change... duty cycle .. 10 on 90 off and a "staccato of electrostatic bursts" that happen in the 10 percent thats it is on.
Tell me what you think
@grumpy,
i tend to look at it like growing a garden. in all of my life i have never planted one where a weed doesn't grow. maybe there is a safe place for weeds. i think it is the place for debate thread. keep up the good work. as stephen marks said, " when you get the worst possible mix, that's when all kinds of things begin to happen." who knows.
lol
sam
Quote from: Gustav22 on December 11, 2007, 12:08:32 AM
Hi Otto,
Quote from: otto on December 10, 2007, 03:39:57 AM
....Look at the distances between the collectors and at the distances between each collector and control coil.
I looked again at 3stack.jpg in
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3660.msg62585.html#msg62585
I would not have noticed, but you are right:
The distance (a) between the lowest collector and the middle collector is smaller than the distance (b) between the middle collector and the top collector.
golden rule i.e. phi !?
a/b = 1/0.618 !?
And the lowest control winding (black) is wound tighter than the middle one (blue). And the red CC-winding is wound loosest.
@gustav and Otto
Dfro makes these statements
"I would suggest doing pulse ratios that are in the Fibonacci series or each pulse being the previous pulse times phi. However, the pulses may be tuned to a chord, like a major chord - root, fifth, octave, tenth (just a thought). He has written about striking the right chord, correct? I also think he has a solid state diode/cap circuit to step up the voltage from the battery for the pulses. I remember reading about how to do this using diodes, caps, and pulses - it is basic stuff, which I don't know how to do yet."
and then the 3stack drawing shows the physical ratios of Phi two conicdence's or not?
Joe
Why?
@ Grumpy
Thank you for answering :) So in hopes to keep this thread afloat since dfro isnt posting anymore, what would be a good topic to discuss, possibly and orientation of the control windings vs the magnetic feild of the earth and sun pic? Or what design would be the best for folks to be on the same page with the earlier or later models. There are a few tpu's here and it would be nice to relate a working concept to one design not 3 different designs . After understanding that one the other two should not be greek.
Joe
Picking this thread back up from the dead...
Aside from the feedback of signals or energy - why would the collector be wired in series to the control wires?
Quote from: sparks on December 26, 2007, 06:32:39 PM
I am going to try to buid a tpu that uses no kicker windings. I experimented with these windings and what they do is setup a longitudanal electric field wave. So they initiate current in the attractor winding. By timing the pulses you start to get resonating energy release into the ring. It is just like a kid paddling water on the outside of an above ground pool. Pretty soon the water is going around and around like crazy from just introducing a little bit of energy at the right time. Mystical wave properties? Golden mean wave interference? No, just an electrical current in a closed loop conductor, this current built up by supplying and storing small amounts of energy. The real deal is when you look at what you have when there is an electric current in a ring conductor with no metal around it. Below is a picture of how a magnetic field would build up around a ringed conductor. This field would build-up with just pure DC supplied to initiate the attractor current. When ambient energy waves encounter the magnetic field around the tpu one of two things happen. First they could be guided by the mag shell to the inside of the tpu winding where they bend the magnetic lines of force enough to let their energy into the ring current. Or they react with the mag shell enough to distort it's field strength. Now what you have is a conductor (attractor winding) lying within a changing magnetic field, which always seems to result in an electrical current flow. There is a distortion of the magnetic field near the conductor. This is pretty much what happens when a prime mover moves a permanent magnet through the magnetic field around the output windings in an alternator. Or a primary winding changes the magnetic field in a transformer core around which the secondary winding is wrapped. CHANGE THE MAGNETIC LINES OF FORCE NEAR A CONDUCTOR - GET ELECTRICITY TO FLOW This is a very simple explanation of the TPU working dynamics but it is the best I have to offer.
I am quoting one of my own posts to try to get this thread back on track. I would like to see if any experimentors with running tpu's have explored the magnetic field around the tpu. Is it pulsing? What shape? If it is pulsing at what frequency? If you shut off the kickers does your unit keep a magnetic field up? Do you use a winding that is shorted upon itself to keep current circulation so as to maintain the magnetic field? What is going on magnetically near the inside diamter of the tpu. Are there differing magnetic poles set up on either side of the tpu? What happens if you direct energy like lightwaves or sound waves towards the tpu? How strong is the magnetic field? How big is the magnetic field? Is there a gravitational field present? If so where is it strongest? What happens when there is a scource of ions introduced near the tpu ? How much rf is the magnetic field of the tpu storing up or letting through or emitting, and what is the predominant frequency?
Please be a scientist of the world for the world and in front of the world.
@Grumpy
Series in this sense
Meaning into the collector then through the others out to the control windings then out of them to ground ?
or
from collector to control to collector to control to collector to control?
People have said both ways
I asked why would the collector and control wires be connected in series.
To give a larger magnetic shell/field , not sure any more discription?
Localjoe,
I like that you're sincere and seeking. I would just ignore the others that have nothing to contribute. Don't even engage them in conversation. These forums have a way of shaping egos like nothing else can. Everyone tries to sound like they know something, but I doubt they know anything useful or else they would be elsewhere doing something about it.
On the SERIES question, SM said that he uses a few collector coils (2 or 3) stacked, and he can run them in series or parallel, etc.. However, the question seems to be if you can put a CONTROL coils and a COLLECTOR coil in SERIES. Well, that's a good question, and SM said that yes you can. It's like a "...furnace that feeds itself.." to use his own words, and "... the signal becomes the source.." etc.. And to use common sense in closing the loop to see if you have over unity, you would in fact hook up the output to the source, and if there is a power gain then you got it, it will amplify and go into self oscillation.
At lest that's my take on it.
EM
;D
somthing tells me you guys gonna be at this a wile lol
ist
yup
Quote from: Grumpy on December 28, 2007, 09:38:38 AM
Do we conclude that the connection of the collector to the control wires is for closing the loop and self-running a TPU.
So, this connection is not "required" for operation.
I am, at least for a self runner. If a design with gain is found without the controls and collectors connected as a continuous circuit then a redesign will be required to make it a self-runner. Controls and collectors in series or parallel willl effect the resonance of each.
Also, I suspect any mixing and beats will be dependent upon this interconnection.
Although it would be an excellent step to achieve gain alone.
Quote from: Localjoe on December 27, 2007, 02:57:21 PM
Well its says The Thyratrons did the same function as the new scr's the only diff i'm seeing is it is a vacuum tube as opposed to solid state. The need to go to the quick off state is necessary because of the duty cycle timing 10 on 90 off and the "staccato of electrostatic bursts" that happen in the 10 percent thats on. Take those concepts and read this sentence twice ... i think we found our answer.
"Currents are induced in relationship to the strength of the magnetic field *** More wire .. larger feild**** And voltages are induced based on the "rate-of-change of that flux". Rate of change... duty cycle .. 10 on 90 off and a "staccato of electrostatic bursts" that happen in the 10 percent thats it is on.
Tell me what you think
My opinions:
Thyratrons were faster in on/off times and handled higher voltages and current. Althought the gap is either closing or closed by now. I find the 'off' time as most important. Both are also the 'rate of change', in my view.
'Rate of change' could also be seen as the change of potential over time during one pulse - not just the duty cycle. This would then allude to achieving a higher voltage for a pulse or P-P sine.
@grumpy
What other purpose than self running would you want the output of the controls hooked back to the input of the collector?
I mean i knew this one but i said nahhhh way to easy.. because as Bep said The resonate freq of the length of wire does change with length and gauge.
So how would one test with out them being wired together? Pulse the collectors and watch the scope on the control windings? Thanks for picking this discussion back up, So at least conscious debate can carry on.
Joe
Quote from: Localjoe on December 28, 2007, 12:51:51 PM
@grumpy
What other purpose than self running would you want the output of the controls hooked back to the input of the collector?
I mean i knew this one but i said nahhhh way to easy.. because as Bep said The resonate freq of the length of wire does change with length and gauge.
So how would one test with out them being wired together? Pulse the collectors and watch the scope on the control windings? Thanks for picking this discussion back up, So at least conscious debate can carry on.
Joe
That's why I asked the question.
Just seeing gain on a scope would be a start. But that most likely would be a voltage gain. The TPU would have to be loaded down with a resistor and then see if you have POWER gain. We can easily get voltage gain with a transformer, but not power gain. Perhaps the TPU in it's simplest configuration is a PASSIVE device with no "mass electronics.. just a knowledge of the coils and how they interact with each other.." (quote from video by SM about his first small TPU)
EM
Quote from: EMdevices on December 28, 2007, 02:26:21 PM
Just seeing gain on a scope would be a start. But that most likely would be a voltage gain. The TPU would have to be loaded down with a resistor and then see if you have POWER gain. We can easily get voltage gain with a transformer, but not power gain. Perhaps the TPU in it's simplest configuration is a PASSIVE device with no "mass electronics.. just a knowledge of the coils and how they interact with each other.." (quote from video by SM about his first small TPU)
EM
In SM's last video, he stated that the energy came from within the TPU itself - not from gravity or earth's magnetic field or electric towers or volcanoes or cosmic vortices - from within the device.
@emdevices,
So sticking with the passive design do you think its all copper or some steel wire and some copper wire? Or i guess a secondary wire that has a good permability. If this in consiquential dont mind me. So from i have been testing with i just have a 6 to 8 turn copper colelctor its 14g instulated stranded copper, and i used single strand wire from a cat5 bundle to wind controls i used the left hand rule for all of them and wired 3 in series equadistant apart 120 turns a peice. Where would i put a resistor? on the output of the control windings or wired in series between the collector and controls? And does this model have an iron toroid or just the wires. Thanks for all input
Joe
Edit: @Grumpy
Are you implying the power comes from a secondary transformer separate to that which we are talking about located within the device or in the center of it? THis would make much more sense i guess to me but im probably wrong
In the UEC video towards the end, and speaking about the little toroid, SM made a few points:
1) The device is NO LONGER dependent on the orientation relative to the earth
2) The device: ".. it is not over unity... not something magical. and in fact it uses common everyday principles.. .... the the use of a magnetic field... the use of magnetism.. to cause electron motion in a wire...it's something we use everyday..."
I would debate him on one thing only "OVERUNITY" Ha Ha :D
So what does it mean? Well, if you read his letters he describes the principles and they all require ACTIVE components to DRIVE IT, but he does say he learned how to start it with just ..."a swipe of the magnet" Those must be the small units totally PASSIVE I imagine.
EM
?
The magic is in knowing what "electricty" is and what a "current" is.
@EM
Your point No.2 in your last post says it all and touches upon a post I made recently located here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3779.msg65838.html#msg65838
The TPU is a glorified transformer. Transformers need a primary, an armature/core and one or more secondaries.
Primary is the control coil, armature/core is the bailing wire ring. Now here's where it varies. In the midst of a magnetic field, if you have the right type of wire and it receives a simple audio frequency, it will vibrate. So if you wind a coil over the bailing wire ring in such a way as to enable vibration, and if this coil has two or three individual conductors with frequency going to only one of them, then all three will vibrate together inside a magnetic field and the two other wires will produce energy. Now since you are creating a mag field that will not be 100% used for the coil vibration, you wind another coil over this to recapture the mag field in order to re-cycle the energy used to make the field in the first place.
Now since you have a bailing wire core that can hold a field, it may not be exposed to the normal eddy currents plus this permits you to pulse energy into the primary and while the pulse is off the bailing wire still holds the field. Tesla did this all the time in his patents whenever he used a rotating contact. So by pulsing the primary, you are using the least amount of energy to build the field, and with the third coil over everything else, you are catching the energy from the mag field to put it back into the loop (like a secondary). These two actions have to be the least energy consuming as possible.
If you took a regular transformer and wrapped a coil over the armature, you will catch energy that would have been otherwise wasted or not transfered to the secondaries. But there has to be an armature or core since this is the medium used or required to transfer and recapture the energy. Trying to do this wire to wire is very difficult and in my opinion, will not reach any level of efficiency to work in an OU system.
In the above case, SMs' magnet over wire analogy would happen twice. The mag field is pulsed so it is moving over a wire, and the wire is vibrating, so it is moving in a field. A double wammo effect.
transformer?
Holy Crap! This ship is sinkin' fast!
Have you ever heard of a ransformer that ran with "gain"? No! and you never will.
@Grumpy
I was expecting your typical Grumparian Brush Off.
Oh well.
Quote from: wattsup on December 28, 2007, 06:17:18 PM
@Grumpy
I was expecting your typical Grumparian Brush Off.
Oh well.
I expected you to ignore the facts presented - a transformer does not run with gain - it increases current or voltage at the expense of voltage or current respectively.
@Grumpy
I don't want to get into a shouting match with you. Your grand revelation of how a transformer does not produce any gain is so revealing, I think the world should stop turning. So new. So innovative. So helpful. As usual. If you cannot see past that, then OK, I understand.
Boys, what's happening to us?
Have we been TPUed to death? LOL :D
EM
P.S. The TPU is obviously a "transformer" of sorts that runs with gain, it "transforms" an input signal or signals into an output signal consisting of AC signals riding a DC offset.
The uniqueness here is the DC offset due to the rotation of the fields. Get rotation, get DC, no rotation no DC.
Interaction of magnetic-dipolar modes with microwave-cavity electromagnetic fields
E.O. Kamenetskiia, Corresponding Author Contact Information, E-mail The Corresponding Author, A.K. Sahab and I. Awaic
aDepartment of Electrical and Computer Engineering, Ben Gurion University of the Negev, Beer Sheva 84105, Israel
bCelestica Inc., 844 Don Mills Road, Toronto, ON M3C 1V7, Canada
cFaculty of Science and Technology, Ryukoku University Seta, Otsu 520-2194, Japan
Received 27 September 2004; accepted 29 September 2004. Communicated by R. Wu. Available online 12 October 2004.
Abstract
We discuss the problem of magnetic-dipolar oscillations combined with microwave resonators. The energy density of magnetic-dipolar or magnetostatic (MS) oscillations in ferrite resonators is not the electromagnetic-wave density of the energy and not the exchange energy density as well. This fact reveals very special behaviors of the geometrical effects. Compared to other geometries, thin-film ferrite disk resonators exhibit very unique interactions of MS oscillations with the cavity electromagnetic fields. MS modes in a flat ferrite disk are characterized by a complete discrete spectrum of energy levels. The staircase demagnetization energy in thin-film ferrite disks may appear as noticeable resonant absorption of electromagnetic radiation. Our experiments show how the environment may cause decoherence for magnetic oscillations. Another noticeable fact is experimental evidence for eigen-electric-moment oscillations in a ferrite disk resonator.
Quote from: wattsup on December 28, 2007, 07:46:11 PM
@Grumpy
I don't want to get into a shouting match with you. Your grand revelation of how a transformer does not produce any gain is so revealing, I think the world should stop turning. So new. So innovative. So helpful. As usual. If you cannot see past that, then OK, I understand.
oooh...touched a nerve...
Like calling the TPU a "transformer" is "So new. So innovative. So helpful."
Continue to delude yourself if it pleases you.
I'm being as "helpful" as everyone else here!
This comes to mind:
http://www.panacea-bocaf.org/files/Trans-verter%20R%20and%20D.pdf (http://www.panacea-bocaf.org/files/Trans-verter%20R%20and%20D.pdf)
Quote from: Grumpy on December 27, 2007, 04:22:19 PM
Why?
Sine waves - not pulses - at least not in this arrangment.
Tesla arrangement = impulses.
SM arrangement = sine waves.
Didn't SM allude to this early on?
Did he allude to sines? Are you certain?
QuoteNothing lasts longer than Energizer
What does the above well-known ad slogan mean to you?
I think SM always said "frequencies" - which could be either.
Quote from: EMdevices on December 28, 2007, 09:48:15 PM
Interaction of magnetic-dipolar modes with microwave-cavity electromagnetic fields
@EM
I understand you work with lines and radiators. This abstract reminds me of the pesky screwdriver that keeps magnetizing. I just point it East/West and whack it with a hammer to fix. Is it possible their problem only happens with certain antenna orientation? i.e. When it is aligned North/South?
If so, wouldn't it be interesting if they could fix it by pointing it the other way and banging it with the same microwaves ???
@All
The bunny is certainly a D.C. thing but the jury is still out for me on sine or square (or both). Of course D.C. can also be either or a flat trace. I suppose I'll finally know when the thing is actually working the way it should. Then I probably won't care.
SM mentioned two types of waveforms:
1) series of kicks
2) pure sinusoidal waveforms related harmonicaly (1, 2nd, 3rd, etc..)
By Fourier Analysis we can show that they are one and the SAME, albeit, if you use only 3 harmonics you get a truncated series that's not too bad, and represents a series of spikes pretty good.
What's interesting is what Libra has discovered in the other thread, he uses only one pure frequency and gets DC + AC output. It's the DC that's revealing and quite interesting.
EM
If you consider the time line of when SM talked about 1st and 2nd frequency, you will realize that at the same time, guys on the board were so adamant that the TPU had THREE stacked collectors without any actual proof. I always had the feeling he added saying "and the third" only because of the apparent fervor of a three collector system idea on the board and his attempt to not tip the hand too much.
The main problem is we are taking everything SM said as isolated instances when in fact everything he said was in the progression of discussions by board members. He had both the intent to give some info but to not give info that only an insider would know so his information was floated between the discussions at the time.
2 frequencies provide three.
3 frequencies provide nine.
You should not need more than two frequencies so right away you're saving 33% of the present energy required to drive whatever.
I imagine SM is always asking himself why the hell he ever had to say the third because this is sending us on the wrong track. At the time, ideas were being shot all over the place like a truck without a steering wheel and I think most of what SM said was to try and keep the truck on the road while it was zig-zagging at high speed.
So there is what he said and there is the context in which he said it. Probably understanding the context will be more valuable then what he said.
good point about the context wattsup, we definitely need to keep that in mind.
EM
What about...nevermind
Quote62. Listen, you need to make three coils or so one on top of the other. But the important thing is to wrap the control coils perpendicularly around the collector coils. There need to be three of them all the way around. Start them up one at a time each. First frequency then second harmonic component into the second, then the third.
63. When you eventually strike the cord look out. You will know what has happened at that point. In the mean time you can measure a slight output even if you do not strike the exact cord.
64. In many of our designs we use three coils as the collector. They can be run parallel to give higher current lower voltage output at excitation. They can be run in series to create high voltage, lower current when reaching the point of excitation. We have used other multiples of run of wire as well in various units contruction.
65. Most of the successful units we made had control wiring run or wrapped vertically over the horizontal collector wires. They were run perpendicular to the travel of the collector wires. They were run in multiple segments. Each segment could be fed a different frequency individually and or from a collector section to help perpetuate the oscillation and control.
We don't really know how to build the TPU coils (collector). SM never gave us a schem of HOW the coils are made.
Until we know this, we are shooting in the dark.
Regards,
~Dan
yawn...
Quote from: Grumpy on December 31, 2007, 11:30:29 PM
What about the statement by SM that the frequencies are "directly related to the circumference of the collector"?
and the comments about "exciting" the collector...
Ring resonator
What about the width of the ring (not diameter)?
Ring resonator tuned to reject even harmonics
A ring resonator an be a hollow toroid, it can be a solid conductor, it can be open with a gap, it can be a closed ring, it can be made of several sections that approximate a circle.
So, both the control windings and the collector could be "ring resonators" tuned to the same frequency - like two tuning forks.
EDIT: you can also create rotating fields in ring resonators.
I read that tubes only put out natural odd harmonics, and solid state, even.
Tube oscillators anyone?
That is what I believe SM meant when he said to just build a tube amp, much quicker all around. I do indeed think that we are looking for odd harmonics.
SM also said it would take 100 years for someone to find the correct frequencies. Let's hope not!
New Years Cheers,
B ruce
8)
those freqs were found months ago
lol
ist
i find it funny if you think you need 3 freqs to heterodyne
i have done this with 1 freq hell even a square pluse ;)
hummmm got ya thinking now eh!!
@ Is Tell us how your 2.5 hz square wve works out
@Wattsup
you wrote this
I imagine SM is always asking himself why the hell he ever had to say the third because this is sending us on the wrong track. At the time, ideas were being shot all over the place like a truck without a steering wheel and I think most of what SM said was to try and keep the truck on the road while it was zig-zagging at high speed.
Grumpy had a picture of an electron lattice diagram that dissappeared i cant find it now... Id say thats a pretty good description of it.. As well this page is worth the quick read http://homepage.mac.com/stevepur/physics/matter/matter.3.html (http://homepage.mac.com/stevepur/physics/matter/matter.3.html)
Joe
Edit: Found this in a physics fourm from a gentleman named zephir
The electron is composition of two perpendicular torsion vibrations of vacuum of the different radius ratio. The one helicity is the source of weak charge, the larger one is the source of EMG charge. The picture below demonstrates the relation between the electron and neutrinos. It can be expressed as the planetary system of photon and gauge boson, revolving each other in one closed loop. The spiral (knot) model is just a scheme of path of vibration motion, the real shape of electron is toroidal duality.
What is the "frequency range" of the tubes that SM referenced using when he found the chord (three freqs)?
well joe
2.5 hz in my cap charger seamed to work well
now i used a neo relay i made for this porpus
i plused the relay it made the magnet sing including the coil
it was still singing when the next pluse came round
infact it sounded just as my audio henge did with 3 freqs
and yes i could see feel and hear this effect
i DO NOT recomend anyone try this with the neo as radiation is produced in the expairments i have done
infact i burnt all of the coating off the neo
this can not be a good thing
did it work? yes was it right? no
however it tought me that 3 freqs are not required
i may produce a video of this on a lowwwww voltage scale to demonstrate the ringgggg so you can hear and see what i have seen in this setup
ist
i just thought i would drop this on the end i have always liked this song
if you could read my mind world what a tale my thoughts could tell ..........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97ZbiemJ1KU
if this dont work try the cash verson ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdCdSLS6c5M&feature=related
we will never be set free as long as there is a ghost that you cant see ........
Quote from: Grumpy on January 01, 2008, 03:12:08 PM
What is the "frequency range" of the tubes that SM referenced using when he found the chord (three freqs)?
"Solid state devices are too slow to find the three major intersecting you know whats..." (Frequencies, meaning more than 1.)
"
I am using 6BQ7-A tubes for the input and phase inverter because they are VHF amplifier triodes designed to operate in Color TV at very high frequencies and so you can imagine how crystal clear my high frequencies are in my stereo amplifier.
Yes, I know that they are hard to find so I have found that I can use any triode designed for color TV VHF use.
That gives me many tube types to choose from.
In fact I wouldn't recommend them because they are operated on a six point three volt heater so you could use another tube designed to use a 12.6 volt heater instead.
I prefer using triodes because they generate less distortion.
Any deviation from the original signal or addition to , Harmonic and intermodulation is not good for stereo enjoyment, you know...
Stereo? I have a three channel system I listen to.
Sometimes the three channels combine together to create the most magnificent sound you could imagine."
From the National Tube Museum:"The 6BQ7A is an all glass miniature VHF double triode and is internally screened.
A valve like this would be used for RF amplification,
or frequency multiplication. In the latter case
the valve is operated as a non liner amplifier. This causes
harmonics of the signal frequency to appear in the anode current. The anode tuned circuit is then chosen to resonate at one of the harmonics, usually the second or third. (The Collector(s) are the anode tuned circuit!)The thin glass tube envelope is 19 mm in diameter and excluding the B9A base pins the valve is 49 mm long."
I have not been able to find out the exact frequency range beyond "VHF" as of yet. I did find out that the 6BQ7-A was used in those old RCA televisions as part of the "Receiver and tuner" circuit. It made me think of the following:
"a General Electric color television
receiver had been the source of an explosion that killed a young black child in the apartment."
(It used the 6BQ7-A Tube/triode/ in the receiver!) AND
"His theory was that the TV while in operation, somehow managed to become
a receiver of more then just television waves and so for a millisecond in time became a receiver and the discharger of a huge amount of electrical and magnetic energy.This discharge of magnetic energy is vary similar to the discharge of magnetic energy during an atomic explosion. . .
Now that is something I have thought about a great deal."
I think the study of this tube and the electron circuit it was used in the RCA television would be of great importance and revealing. IMHO
Quote from: Grumpy on January 01, 2008, 10:24:18 AM
"perpetuate the oscillation"
"point of excitation"
"control wiring run or wrapped vertically over the horizontal collector wires"
"They were run in multiple segments."
"fed a different frequency individually and or from a collector section"
"you can measure a slight output even if you do not strike the exact cord"
This is the contex of a link user @marcels left in another post
Observation of single-point excitation and shocking of rotating acoustic waves. (A)
Peter H. Ceperley and Alon Koren
Depts. of Phys. and Elec. and Comput. Eng., George Mason Univ., Fairfax, VA 22030
In a cylindrically symmetric resonator or a ring resonator, the proper combination of standing wave modes results in a rotating wave field. Such a field has the appearance of a traveling wave chasing its tail, a constant field profile rotating in space. However, unlike traveling waves, rotating waves are limited to distinct modes. Rotating waves offer the clearest insight into angular momentum and rotary motion in wave fields. The following observations will be reported: (1) rotating acoustic waves in a concentric ring resonator and in a cylindrical resonator; (2) single-point excitation of these waves [P. H. Ceperley, ``Split mode traveling wave ring resonator,'' U.S. Patent 4,686,407 (1987)]; and (3) weak shocking of the wave fronts at acoustic amplitudes near 1 kPa. These all relate to one atmosphere, air-filled resonators. [Work supported by ONR.]
Seemed relevant
And we even get the famous dragon chasing its tail analogy come on acer i figured youd like this too
@Localjoe,
EXCELLENT!
~Dan
@all
Who remembers this post back on February 18, 2007.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,712.msg23740.html#msg23740
This is what I mean by a truck rolling without a steering wheel and SM trying to keep it on the road.
All the Best to All for 2008.
All your dreams WILL be answered for where there is a WILL, there is a WAY.
;D
WILL~I~AM
come on everyone lets go find the WAY
isteam!!
pulled
@Btentzer
I usually don't post about the replication process going on because I don't feel that I am qualified, but your post goes to the heart of a big debate going on about solid state devices versus tube devices. What does a tube have that a mosfet doesn't? Capacitance. The tube capacitance can be such that it provides the capacitance needed to create a resonating circuit with an inductor without any external capacitor. Therefore you can have a resonating highpower circuit with a tube output circuit directly connected to a load inductor. Another thing you can do with the tube is control it's capacitance through the grid circuits so it now becomes a variable capacitor also. This tunable device is also good at handling reflected waves
because of it's capacitance match to the load and resulting resonant frequency preference.
@ Local Joe
Good work guy. Now if we can figure out how that circulating wave gives rise to overunity my curiousity will be satisfied.
Newbie, testing
Hello
yup
@Dansway
You have to look at the thread in which this information was divulged.
"you need to make three coils or so "
Why say "or so"? Or so what? If you were running your TPU with two, but everyone on the board is yelling three, maybe you would think, well if it works with two, it should work for three. Otherwise why say OR SO.
"First frequency then second harmonic component into the second, then the third." Well. the third what? Triplet, third harmonic, Bflat? Why did he not elaborate like he did for first frequency then the second harmonic. Why is he avoiding to elaborate on the third. Always the third.
Also when he put his hands together standing next to the LTPU, pantomining the gesture of two fields meeting. He didn't have three hands.
Here's the whole text on SM. Can't remember how I got this.
http://www.users.on.net/~lekh/stevenmark.html
Look at the posting dates, then search the dates on this forum for the context.
@all
Once SM concluded his results with tubes, he probably made the OPTU in the image of a tube. Look at btentzers tube photo, the two horizontal plates could be the top and bottom plates of the OTPU. He's talking about this indirectly in his post I eluded to above as if his TPU is a replication of a tube. A tube is in a vacuum to preserve the components and not to enhance the electron flow. You do not need a vacuum to push electrons from one end to the other of the tube process. So the OPTU could simply be creating electron hash that knows automatically where to migrate.
As for the LPTU....
Closest wiring diagram is here;
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3279.msg51205.html#msg51205
If you look at a build diagram here;
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3279.msg52409.html#msg52409
there a six horizontal wires that he described as being the control wires. There are two or three vertical coils wound that he calls the collector coils. He also said
1 - SS circuits need to be 1/2 above the circuit board,
2 - the board material is very important (military grade),
3 - the circuit HAS TO BE inside the TPU.
4 - SS control requires LOTS OF FEEDBACK and this is probably the two coils wound left and right of the zero point, either two or three layers after the collectors or less but over the collectors.
5 - The center coils are probably picking up magnetism from the outer coils. As the outer coil magnetism increases, the center coils increase in power to the circuit that increases in a loop. That's why he can start it with a magnet on the center coils.
Now which one gets what. Basically all you need is a North and South Field near the collector coils and then send a frequency into the collectors. If the collector is wound not too tight (notice top and bottom wood rings and soft core), in order to permit some vibrations, the collector itself will produce a DC voltage with a riding AC (from the frequency).
If you ask me, the LPTU is using only two frequencies (two yellow caps) and there are only two vertical collector coils wound 180 degress (or less) each. That coincides with his two hands coming together. I also do not think the LTPU was made in two or three stacked levels. Nothing in the informations or images support this at all and there is no real advantage to this. A simple tall coiled ring will send its field more to the center then three shorter stacked coils.
The control coil is wound horizontal and this provides a north or south field at the bottom wind, goes to the middle to make a north plus south field to simulate a regular coils center void, and a top wind to end with the inverse polarity of that being used on the bottom winds. This puts a magnetic field inside the collectors. This control coil can be pulsed DC which is recycled in the system via the center coils and the feedback coils both for the energy and for the impulse timing back to the control coil. The control coil could be regular lamp wire. The control coil could be pulsed and reverse polarity.
The two large black caps are in series and are probably in parallel to the collector coils which are in parallel to each other also. The collector coils are most likely Litz multistrand, since this is the wire also receiving the frequency.
I don't think anyone has tried sending a frequency into a TPU type collector coil that has a parallel capacitor on it. Wonder what it will do. I'd say the capacitors are acting as both a tank and as a voltage regulator.
As for the frequencies used, let's not get to strayed by the VHF of his tubes. In acoustics, woofers respond to low frequencies, midranges to mid frequencies, tweeters to high frequencies given their PHYSICAL sizes relative to their coil size. That's why he said the frequency depends on the TPU circumference. Size matters. It would go to say that a vacuum tubes diameter will permit it to function at VHF levels, something a woofer could never do.
LTPU - Woofer - Lower frequencies - known 7.5 hz
OPTU - Midrange - Mid frequencies - known 5000-7000 hz
DON'T FORGET, ALL THE ELECTRONICS HAS TO FIT INSIDE THAT SMALL BLACK BOX. If there were any tubes inside that box, the heat would have melted the plastic.
All the best.
Hello,
I am a newbie here. I found this site by accident and did not know about this TCU device. I am currently working on something completely different, however there may be some connection. So I am going to post it here to see if it helps.
My current work is complex and would be hard to explain here, so I won't go in to it, However when seeing the TCU video's,
However a coil of wire "tuned" to the proper sensitive frequency.
The inventor says, that what ever you do, don't tune the coils to the frequency dead on..
I hope this helps.
Newton
I guess it is TPU not TCU, this is new to me. Plus I am a newbie.
@Newton007
Congrats on your post and thanks. For sure the sun has much to do with it since it is the initial source.
Suggest you look at this on YouTube, but it's 1 hour long. Just great stuff.
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=4773590301316220374&q=Thunderbolts+of+the+Gods
Also, if you look at your post window upper right there is a modify icon. Click on it and you will be able to modify/correct your post instead of posting a new correction. Happens to all of us.
Ok, thanks, all these sites seem to work a little different.
I will look at the information.
Newton
Quote from: Grumpy on January 02, 2008, 11:54:08 AM
Quote from: Grumpy on January 02, 2008, 09:57:54 AM
VHF band is 30 MHz to 300 MHz
So, why is everyone else that is working with "three frequencies" using frequencies in the kHz range?
Did SM not indicate that he was working in the MHz range by speciifying the tubes in his equipment?
This freq range is obtainable in ring resonators of the diameters that SM has shown.
I think the reason, speaking for myself anyway, is that the two very, very specific frequency's given by SM are in the Khz range. His 35.705 Khz and 245 Khz.
I for one have always believed that the real power will come only in getting the three right frequencies. He said there would be "some power", even if we did not hit the right frequencies. IMHO we have yet to see that, even.
Perhaps 1 of his 6BQ7-A tubes, and used in an electron circuit that acts as frequency multiplication. Thus in theory, one tube could produce the three frequencies and all the odd harmonics needed. This would be easier perhaps to build, then three seperate tube oscillators.
I think the TV receiver circuit, in those 1958 RCA televisions, received for a millisecond, those correct frequencies, that SM alluded to, time and time again, in his letters. When it did, all that power and no outlet, so boom, implosion. Of course that explanation is oversimplified, but the jist is understood. IMHO I believe that the 6BQ7-A was the culprit for the explosions and is why SM hinted to us that specific tube. It is also still readily available.
;)
starting now at the very beginning gets us to the end
;D
ist
After reading the inventors notes, he seemed to make a point that several wires may be used in (parallel) although he did not seem to say that is how his TPU works. This may be a key of some sort. He may have done this.
I would like to hear any comments on this.
Remember he cut the TPU up to show people that there were no battery's inside. He would know where to cut as to not show the coil connection arrangements.
Here is something else,
Don't worry about the operation of the gas pedal if the engine won't even turn over.
think this one of the reasons the coil part has no patents. How could you patent a few coils of wire with all the patents out there now that have all types of coiled wire in all kinds of arrangements? It would be tough, I know as I hold two patents, and was rejected on one and it was a real good design too.
I think the "secret" is the coils of wire and the correct Length. The inventor seems to hint at this several times. If my theory is correct, then it's just a matter of finding the correct Length of wire wound in a coil to show a voltage difference between each end.
I think he said that they "crushed" about 300 of these coils before they got a good one. So some trial and error is involved.
But it is just coiled wire, not a $10,000 computer or some other sort of equipment they were "crushing" up.
They did not say they crushed up any other equipment, that I could tell any way.
It is just my thoughts.
Newton
Funny I was thinking about some AC power plants I used to work on that used saturable core reactors. The more voltage the alternator put out the less DC would be fed to the reactor which resulted in less field excitation of the alternator. Great voltage regulator no ss no tubes.
They also use these devices in magnetic amplifiers. Well anyway I went to a search engine and typed in saturable core reactors this evening and at the top of the list was this site called www.tpub.com. Coincidence I guess.
Divine inspiration less likely. Well anyway the site turns out to be a great scource for learning about alot of different stuff. It is put together I think for the navy or some military folks. Worth looking at. Easy for a builder to remember TPUb. Name even has one of the secret frequencies in it.
Then tonight gets even weirder. The post below by a fresh mind working on this site is talking about magnetic amplification and the tpu just about the same time I'm websurfing this site mentioning mag amps. I'm logging off and heading for the hay before today starts moving into the twilight zone.
Quote from: btentzer on January 01, 2008, 10:35:40 AM
Quote from: Grumpy on December 31, 2007, 11:30:29 PM
What about the statement by SM that the frequencies are "directly related to the circumference of the collector"?
and the comments about "exciting" the collector...
Ring resonator
What about the width of the ring (not diameter)?
Ring resonator tuned to reject even harmonics
A ring resonator an be a hollow toroid, it can be a solid conductor, it can be open with a gap, it can be a closed ring, it can be made of several sections that approximate a circle.
So, both the control windings and the collector could be "ring resonators" tuned to the same frequency - like two tuning forks.
EDIT: you can also create rotating fields in ring resonators.
I read that tubes only put out natural odd harmonics, and solid state, even.
Tube oscillators anyone?
That is what I believe SM meant when he said to just build a tube amp, much quicker all around. I do indeed think that we are looking for odd harmonics.
SM also said it would take 100 years for someone to find the correct frequencies. Let's hope not!
New Years Cheers,
B ruce
Actually, I need to correct the above statement of mine. It is the exact opposite.
"Technical observers report that when a tube amplifier is operated near its power limits that the distortion produced is the addition of even harmonics (even multiples of the fundamental freqency), while transistor amplifiers produce a distortion consisting of odd harmonics."
Sorry about dislexic moment! LOL
I was thinking about the exploding TV set. Back in the 1960s during 8 through 12 th grade I had my own TV repair shop. Yeah, I was the geek with the glasses and the pocket protector. Still am I guess. Anyway I would work on those old black and white sets all the time.
Usually it was just a bad tube or high voltage fuse. If that did not work then pull the chassis lay it over on it's side get out the VTVM and scope, cheater cord. Back then you used a schematic, called Sam's Photo fax. All you old time TV guys already know about Sam's. They were only about $2 and they had all the information about the TV, usually just a few pages.
Well when the first color TVs came out (expensive!) the Sam's were about $15-25 because they were like a book. Just taking the back off one of these could be something, the chassis were huge, with a pile of tubes and the yoke on the round picture tube was a huge coil of wires.
These first color TVs spent more time in the shop than in the home. Plus you had to have special equipment to work on them. Oddly enough the owners would pay and pay to keep them running even if the stupid thing had to be de gauss all the time. I was told they had to be de gauss because of the Earths magnetic fields.
Now that is something to think about.
Most of these sets did not make it out of the show room before they fizzled out. The pictures were poor, but it was "color" and that is what counted. Now you could brag to your friends about having the first one even if you had a green hair and blue skin picture to show to your friends.
Any way back to the exploding (imploding) color TV. With all those coils on just the yoke alone may have just for a split second, interacted with the Earths magnetic field creating enough magnetic force to do, well any thing.
I don't know, but many strange things have happened before and since that can't be explained. Some where in England I think there is a neighborhood where the wiring in the houses burn up even with the power disconnected. Why? All the experts don't know. So who knows?
Today if the TV craps out, in the dumpster, off to Wally World for a new one.
Just a quick note...this picture is very interesting.
Found it here while looking for info on the rotating standing wave gizmo: http://ite.gmu.edu/~omega/research.html
For what it's worth, I do think there has to be some large power buildup (and rotation of the built-up power) occurring somehow, and rotating standing waves would fit the bill perfectly. EM waves do have a slight amount of mass to them (this is a scientific fact--remember the old microwave propulsion system? It was too weak to be of much use, but it proved this beyond a shadow of a doubt)
Eldarion
Ok well I admit I am all new to this TPU thing, but I just went to another web site where a group of inventors claim that they have a working TPU. But looking at the shaking video (I am starting to think this shaking video thing implies success) and the schematic they are using, I don't get it.
There are power supply's, square wave generators, scopes, meters, a bunch of wires, coils and of course the ever present glowing light bulb all connected together on a work bench.
Don't get me wrong, I have to admire their drive and enthusiasm, but, I hope that they have taken the time to study the original information on the TPU. There was not (as far as I could tell) any power supply of any kind used in the original unit.
Like I say, it is going to take me a while to adjust.
Quote from: Newton007 on January 02, 2008, 11:00:37 PM
I was thinking about the exploding TV set. Back in the 1960s during 8 through 12 th grade I had my own TV repair shop. Yeah, I was the geek with the glasses and the pocket protector. Still am I guess. Anyway I would work on those old black and white sets all the time.
Usually it was just a bad tube or high voltage fuse. If that did not work then pull the chassis lay it over on it's side get out the VTVM and scope, cheater cord. Back then you used a schematic, called Sam's Photo fax. All you old time TV guys already know about Sam's. They were only about $2 and they had all the information about the TV, usually just a few pages.
Well when the first color TVs came out (expensive!) the Sam's were about $15-25 because they were like a book. Just taking the back off one of these could be something, the chassis were huge, with a pile of tubes and the yoke on the round picture tube was a huge coil of wires.
These first color TVs spent more time in the shop than in the home. Plus you had to have special equipment to work on them. Oddly enough the owners would pay and pay to keep them running even if the stupid thing had to be de gauss all the time. I was told they had to be de gauss because of the Earths magnetic fields.
Now that is something to think about.
Most of these sets did not make it out of the show room before they fizzled out. The pictures were poor, but it was "color" and that is what counted. Now you could brag to your friends about having the first one even if you had a green hair and blue skin picture to show to your friends.
Any way back to the exploding (imploding) color TV. With all those coils on just the yoke alone may have just for a split second, interacted with the Earths magnetic field creating enough magnetic force to do, well any thing.
I don't know, but many strange things have happened before and since that can't be explained. Some where in England I think there is a neighborhood where the wiring in the houses burn up even with the power disconnected. Why? All the experts don't know. So who knows?
Today if the TV craps out, in the dumpster, off to Wally World for a new one.
mmmh
good post
I have been reading a lot of posts here on this whole site and I am starting to see that this TPU thing is really gone wild.
It seems that it has really went so far out from the original concept that is has taken on a life of its own.
Here is something too. Just think of all the coils of wire that were ever made in the world. There must be billions made over the years in millions of different configurations.
I wonder how many of these unknowingly hit the "magic" frequency under certain conditions?
For example how many appliances, motors, TV sets, radios, automotive, anything electrical with coils of wire, for no apparent reason just burn out one day?
Or even a spool of wire at the hardware store that someone cut five foot off of and hit the "magic" length causing a fire one night of unknown origin?
To me induction is induction no matter if it is a transformer up on a pole or in the starter motor in my Ford.
If there is a alternating or pulsating magnetic field or fields strong enough, it can be, with the correct Length of conductor in the right configuration picked up and detected.
This seems the place to start when working with a TPU like device. To me any way.
Just wondering at 5:45 AM.
The concepts keep getting wilder and wilder.
Well right, I am saying that the correct length of wire will be inducted into from a source of electromagnetic radiation of the same frequency, (I think this is what I am saying)
Yes I am saying that is where I would start is with a long spool of wire in a coil and the cut off a little at a time to "sneak" up on the correct length.
I don't think just measuring at different points along the wire would work, but might at I think so too based on something else I am working on.
The inventor being a TV design engineer knows full well about horizontal output fly back transformers and how they work. If he did not, he would not be much of a TV electronics engineer to me any way. So I think some of that is incorporated in his design.
But that is later.
Just like he said you don't want to hit the correct length of wire dead on or you could blow your self up if the two ends of the wire were shorted out. Just like you would not want to climb a power pole and short a screw driver across the secondary terminals of a transformer. Even a volt meter could blow up with the right amount of over voltage.
Also too, he said to start out small, with small gauge wire so if you are experimenting around and happen to hit the frequency the coil wires would just burn in two, without exploding. The same difference between shorting out a small 9 volt battery with a screw driver and a distribution transformer with a screw driver on a power pole.
I am saying that this is what I think is going on with the inventors device. It is not everything thats going on, but it has to start here first.
The cart has to be behind the horse or it won't work too good.
I hope this helps.
Newton
What would happen if you had a coil for which XL = XC?
Eldarion, nice post.
If we get a hold of this paper we might learn something:
http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/product.biblio.jsp?osti_id=164989
EM
p.s. ahuramazda, all coils self resonate at a particular frequency (where xl=xc)
Ahh, I found zee paperÃ, LOLÃ, :) (or rather A paper)
I love the internet !!!
Here is something else too .
Not only is it interesting information to study, there were some really smart people back then too.
I think the inventor may have been one of them.
Hi Newton :)
Would you happen to know anything about the failure in the GE circuit's??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-ray_tube#Hazards_of_X-ray_production_from_vacuum_tubes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-ray_tube#Hazards_of_X-ray_production_from_vacuum_tubes)
M.
:)
Abstract-Traveling wave and standing wave fields are central
to microwave applications. This paper discusses a third category
of fields: ?rotating waves? which, while ocassionally utilized in
the past, are not commonly used or understood.
Rotating waves are composed of a particular linear combination of standing
waves, but have field profiles more similar to traveling waves. A
rotating wave can be pictured as a frozen field rotating in space.
An analysis is presented of rotating waves in cylindrical cavity
resonators. The TM1 rotating mode for a cylindrical resonator
is discussed in some detail.
make sure you read the paper, I see no one downloaded it yet. shame on you LOL :)
EM
double post
???
QuoteIn the 1970s it was found that a failure in the HV supply circuit of some GE TVs could leave excessive voltages on the regulator tube, causing it to emit X-rays. The models were recalled and the ensuing scandal caused the US agency responsible for regulating this hazard, the Center for Devices and Radiological Health of the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), to require that all TVs include circuits to prevent excessive voltages in the event of failure. This hazard was eliminated with the advent of all solid state TVs
Marco, that's very interesting, I wonder if this failure was related to that catastrophic explosion SM talked about.
Residual High Voltage, hmmmm?
Couple that with some resonating magnetic fields and maybe we have the .... GENESIS sytem !! LOL :)
EM
hey, i wasn't expecting that somebody would actually click on that link to see what it was about....
About 1% of the energy generated is emitted/radiated, perpendicular to the path of the electron beam ::)
make of it what you want :)
M.
EM,
your pdf of the rotating wave stuff doesn't work - corrupted - 0 bytes.
Please re-post.
more winding
Quote from: -[marco]- on January 03, 2008, 11:47:05 AM
Hi Newton :)
Would you happen to know anything about the failure in the GE circuit's??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-ray_tube#Hazards_of_X-ray_production_from_vacuum_tubes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-ray_tube#Hazards_of_X-ray_production_from_vacuum_tubes)
M.
Now THAT IS a good find! Thanks Marco!
Some how my last post was lost about TVs, said data base failure. Any way The TV question about GE color TVs. No I don't know about the GE failures and here is where I first learned about them exploding.
I worked mostly on BW sets. I worked mostly on RCA color sets. Like the GE sets there were X ray scares with all Color sets to some degree. How much of this was real and how much just newspaper hype I don't know. But I am still alive so I guess I did not get much exposure.
One thing you have to remember about these early color TVs is they were driven hard and the power supply's were almost maxed out, both the DC and the high voltage. The tube power supply's were failure prone. Later sets used selenium rectifiers which were not much better except that you could always tell when they were burnt up because of the odd smell they had.
A high voltage rectifier tube 1B3 was the "X ray" tube when driven hard. The B+ on these multiple power supply's was always low which caused all kinds of problems with their operation. They would pop a 15 amp house breaker some times. 20 amp was better.
When they told the kids to stay away from the screen it was, in retrospect a good idea.
At the time I thought it was silly, but now I don't. The last time I worked on a TV was 1968 so I am a little fuzzy on some of this.
I hope this helps.
Newton
Quote from: Grumpy on January 03, 2008, 11:50:59 AM
LC values for 7.3 Hz are around 475 microFarads with a 1 Henry coil - is using a cap cheating?
I'm curious about this one as well.
"bump"
Grumpy,
Yes this is close to what I am saying,
Thinking about this, it is some what similar to a fly back transformer in a TV set, something the inventor should know very well as he was or said he was a electronics engineer involved with TVs.
There should be some information on fly back transformers out on the web some where as there seems to be almost every kind of information on the web now.
don't think he ever claimed that it was "free" energy of any sort.
I think the term "free energy" is over used and some how comes out to something for nothing.
Like I said before I found this site by accident and was not thinking at all about TPUs or anything similar as I am working on something else.
Not to go back over what I said before too much, but
He even says this in the information.
This is what you have to tune into.
This guy did it, and I don't think he could walk on water any better than anyone of us could.
Also I hope somebody can make this thing work soon as my electric bill are really high in the summer with the AC on all the time.
Newton
Well yes and no.
Sometimes more, sometimes less.
I am just trying to be realistic about this.
I noticed the inventor always checked the voltage first before connecting anything.
At one point in one video he sounded disappointed that the voltage had dropped on his larger unit right before the demonstration.
Constantly charge the battery's in your electric car.
Pump the water back over Hoover dam for example.
I really do think you could pull out the electric meter and just pay a flat rate.
Or better yet put a scaled down unit in your basement.
Just some thoughts.
Newton
EM,
Thanks for digging up the paper! I will give it a good read-through and see if anything can be applied directly to our TPU.
Grumpy,
Also very interesting. I wonder if we add rotation of the standing wave to your concept if it would help?
Eldarion
EDIT: This just sounds so familiar:
"In a cylindrically symmetric resonator or a ring resonator, the proper combination of standing wave modes results in a rotating wave field"
and
"Rotating waves offer the clearest insight into angular momentum and rotary motion in wave fields." (The "gyroscopic" effect)
I really wish we could get this paper: http://scitation.aip.org/getabs/servlet/GetabsServlet?prog=normal&id=JASMAN000091000004002331000002&idtype=cvips&gifs=yes
(kinda lost)
Hi Grumpy,
This is because part the output of the fly back transformer is used for feed back to the input circuit as well as provide the output to the horizontal deflection coils, plus provide the heater voltage for the high voltage rectifier tube. The horizontal deflection coils must be at a perfect wave form out of the fly back transformer. (I think this what I am saying as the last TV set I worked on was in 1968)
This is why I say, to me any way, that the TPU and a fly back transformer are, or the principals any way, are the same in both.
The wave form of a horizontal deflection coil has a spike "kick" then a slope down on a scope. This is because of the horizontal sweep that the deflection coil provides to the electron beam.
The fly back transformer must match this wave form perfect or it won't work. If you can find a schematic on the web showing a fly back transformer circuit. you will see what I mean better than I can explain it.
Well the closer the better any way.
Also this may be why so many coils had to be made by the inventor before a "good" one was found and had to do with more than just wire length.
It very well may be because of the wave form characteristics of the coil, given the importance the inventor places on coil size and design.
Gee whiz people, put away the square wave generators, scopes and DC power supply's.
The inventor keeps stressing the safety aspect all the time in his notes and videos.
This is the signal and its power that needs to be tapped with the TPU.
Newton
Sorry, Grumpy, I did not mean to vent my views in my response to you.
Here is something too for what it is worth.
In the inventors notes he said that his TPU device worked in a plane at 15,000 feet.
Also he said that South of the Equator the TPU worked in reverse,
I am not sure what reverse means exactly, but I do find it interesting.
Talking about fly back transformers, you might try going to yard sales and look around for old tube TVs from the 50-60.
After about 1970 the designs changed and really went to cheap junk, so I would look for the older ones.
I see them now and then when people pull them out of their basements or attic.
Most don't work and you can get them almost for free or a few dollars. You want a old table top or console model.
Take it home and pull it apart and look at the fly back transformer. It will be in the high voltage cage.
Check out the design, take a few apart, get a feel for it.
Study the all the little things in there from a by gone analog age before computers.
Find some schematics of old TVs on the web or in an old book store.
Take some time to study these.
There just might be some pay dirt in looking at one of those old clunkers.
If you try to run it, be sure to discharge the HV anode before digging in to the HV section.
Put yourself in the inventors shoes for a while. See where he comming from.
Remember this was the inventors world, not the X box, big plasma screen world of today.
Just an Idea.
If the Earth suddenly dropped in to the Sun tomorrow morning, the Sun would not even hiccup. However I think my fire insurance would be up for a rate increase.
Just some thoughts at 3:37 AM
Newton
(I'm getting cought up in "why" or "how" the magnification occurs.)
Hi Grumpy,
Hey don't worry about not being an electronics engineer. I am not either. I am a retired Instrument tech after 35 years.
The best part about what everyone here is doing is that everyone here is INTERESTED.
You may be surprised how many electronics "experts" could care less and are out playing golf as this area of research is well, stupid and a waste of time.
I don't think any one here thinks what they are doing is stupid or a waste of time or they would not be here in the first place.
I wish more of these people would get off the golf course and come here to help, the planet is in trouble, no time for golf.
I have been told that: Research is what you are doing when you don't know what you are doing. I think this is true.
I guess I would like to see a little more direction and thought process is all. It is just me being me.
Gee, now I forgot your questions.
recanted
@grumpy
If you think of the Earth as a 3 dimensional Spherical Resonator wouldn't
Schuman's work apply. You have Earth the resonator with this huge iron core, space between the Sun and Earth the capacitance. And all sorts of energy oscillating back and forth between the two. This could be why the Earth exists at this orbit. The orbit is such that it creates the capacitance required to allow for a resonating energy system between the sun and the Earth. Without this match the Earth would just radiate itself away. This could be why the Gas Giant planets are so large and so far out. The orbits defined more by their spherical resonator makeup and relative position to the Sun than anything else. So you can think of the Earth as containing a bunch of standing waves confined by a magnetic evelope. And the Earth she is a spinning. Rotating standing waves? Isn't this sounding more and more like a tpu? Could the Earth's rotation be driven by distortion of the magnetic lines of standing wave containment by other non-resonating energy frequencies. Ionosphere charging on the sunnyside of the Earth by shortwave frequency absorption is one I can think of. Weather being driven by this distortion and resulrting wave circulation. This wave circulation in the atmosphere actually revolving the atomosphere which in turn drags along the more dense matter on the torroidal plane we walk around on.
So maybe SM's tpu is a model of the Earth. His kicker coils instead of the ionosphere absorption. Electron flow instead of atmospheric flow.
OK, yes that is one of the problems,
But you don't have to reinvent the wheel. The inventor has given us a LOT of information.
Just like a jig saw puzzle, it has to be put together.
Some may ask, well why can't the guy just give us the remainder of it?
If I was him. I probely would not have given out half as much as he did.
As he said he spent a lot of time on this so we can spend some time on it too. It is only fair and I agree 100%.
But if everyone puts their heads together on it like here for example it should go a lot faster.
He wants us all to learn, and in the few days I have been here I am learning a lot.
At some point I will have to go back to my original project as I have been working five years on it and have to keep it going.
I noticed that he seems a little "gun shy" at times in the video when working with the large unit.
But seemed at ease working with the smaller unit. This means something.
But I don't know.
Right,
The inventor seems to talk a lot about these smaller lengths of wire in parallel so a coil of them may work also.
I don't see why it would not work. May be that is what he did . I don't know.
Thoughts?
Hi Grumpy,
I am trying to help.
Newton
@Newton007 and Grupmy
Excellent discussion guys !!!!!
Sorry for not being able to contribute ... but I am following your discussion with a great interest !!!
QuoteQuote from: Newton007 on Today at 06:35:29 AM
When I see all these TPU experiments trying to inject oscillations in to them, I have to wonder why?
The inventor never did anything like that.
The other devices shown were to provide regulation of the coils, or at least try to.
What about the video where SM turns on the first frequency and then the second frequency of the large ring on the table? (Curiously, the small ones all seemed to already be "on".)
Or it may be an easier point to start with and learn from ( although most likely not the correct one ). We put something we see something coming out it is quite easy even without having much knowledge. On the other ( probably the correct ) side we just make coils put them together adjust them and wait to get something without input from anywhere sounds little like ... simple kicks leading to TPU :LOL:
I always felt that pumping signals in the any TPU type of device seems to be a distraction from the real question where the kicks come from and how we can extract them. Your discussion seems to lead in this direction and I feel strongly that the solution for the TPU is along these lines.
Bet to us all,
Hi Grumpy,
I think you are on the right track.
He likes to talk about current going both directions in the same wire at the same time a lot.
Of course this is done a lot in electronics.
Some feed back built into the coils might be used also to get the current going the right direction. Don't know.
A resonance type effect, a part of the tuned coil effect.
When at a normal operating, condition the compass needle is stationary.
Newton
back to the bench...
yup...
No contact here, again.
Hi Grumpy,
Good ideas,
Well I am just taking a guess on this, so don't know.
SM has said many times that the control wire is horizontal to the vertical collector coils so it is not wound over the collector(s).
Newton007 and Grumpy, keep up the discussion. I like that you're discussion the DC aspects and current, etc..
Make sure you guys review the SM statements from time to time, but more importantly the videos.
In the video where the double stacked ring TPU is featured (the OPEN TPU) we hear him mention 6000 Hz and DC.
In the first video showing his spool with the two coils and one small ferrite toroid on top, we hear him mention a physical vibration of 7.3 Hz.
These vibrations might be BYPRODUCTS, and not necessarily the frequency he taps into, like others have mentioned before (otto, etc..)
wattsup, the control coils are wound VERTICALY, in sectors around the main COLLECTOR. It's the collector that gives the size of the TPU. Different frequencies are input into the sector coils (control coils) I know SM made one statement where he seemed to get mixed up with the language, but in other statements he was very clear about what is what.
EM
E M devices,
Thanks for the kind words and I will take your advice.
I have only been here a few days and there are some really interesting ideas and people here.
I admit I did not know even know what this TPU device was.
So I took an interest, if for no other reason than to try to find out more about what was going on in relation to my other project.
I will try to keep an open mind.
Newton
@newton
I calculated the wavelength of a 7.3hz signal and I'll be damned but it is pretty close to the circumference of the Earth. 25,529 miles. So now you have a resonator that pretty much is the same circumference as the wavelength. 1/2 the wavelengh n to an the distance from the north pole to the south. Or 1/2 way around the Earth at the equator. hmmm
@EM
I think the vertical / horizontal question should be answered once and for all since this fundamental mistake could cost too many more months of running after our tail.
Look at the first photo (medium-cut-4.jpg) when he cuts the MTPU, before he completely pulls out the slice, you can see the horizontal white wires.
Look at photo two (medium-cut-9.jpg) as he pulls out the slice, the wires slide out of the slice and stay on the left portion of the cut. This is because he cut right side first then from the outside bottom left, stopped there by chance and cut downwards, preserving the wires on the left side of the TPU.
Look at photo three (medium-cut-1.jpg) once the slice is pulled out, you can see the horizontal wires still on the left side.
Look at photo four (medium-cut-17.jpg) once the slice is pulled out, you can see the slice in his hand and there are no wires but you can see the channels where the horizontal wires passed inside the vertical winds. If you look on the floor below his pinky finger, you will see one of the horizontal wires that fell to the ground as he pulled out the slice and it has the perfect width of the cut. How is this possible if there are no horizontal wires.
This is concrete PROOF that the TPU had horizontals.
Now if you cut such a part out of such a design, why are there not any vertical wires flying all over the place?
Like I said long ago. People are not looking at what really is there but what they want to see. I think these questions of "reality" should be answered once and for all because these theories abound but are based on what "exactly".
Consider the importance of a horizontal coil in the TPU and this chances the dynamics of polarity potentials. The verticals need a horizontal north and south field polarity inside it to be able to respond to a frequency. Otherwise you are driving a dead goose.
QuoteHow is this possible if there are no horizontal wires.
wattsup, perhaps I confused you with my statement. I was just pointing out the terminology. You are absolutely correct.
Yes there are HORIZONTAL wires, and we call them the COLLECTOR wires.
Yes there are VERTICAL wires, and we call them the CONTROL wires.
EM
@ newton
Have you done any work on estimating the wattage one of these waves/proton pulses has in it. Knowing the sun it taint trivial. You could have a 25,000 mile wavelength and still have a shitload of wattage in it when you figure the electric field potential. Knowing the sun this will at the very least be in the gigawatts. I could never understand why it has been said that the lower the frequency the less the power in the wave. You can say this if you are thinking about little antennae's catching tiny waves and time compression but how bout a big old wave. A tsunami size wave compared to a ripple on a pond.
If you are in a boat the tsunami isn't even going to rock you, but you will hear the ripples slapping up against the side of the boat from a fish flipping nearby.
So if this wave is larger than the Earth's diameter the electric potential of the field could be passing through the Earth whilst the magnetic field running perpendicular to the wave does the same. The interaction of the magnetic field of the waves and the Earth's permeable iron core set up magnetic circuits and resultant electric fields. All this happening every .13 seconds as at the very least gigawatt electromagnetic waves pass through the Earth.
Could this be the Energy SM's telsa power receiver is sucking up?
I rememeber Tesla trying to oscillate with the earth and his car that used tubes to collect energy all around us .
deleted for stating the obvious
Sparks,
Interesting calculations, you may have a clue.
One other thing I can't help but notice is how the inventor seemed a little "gun shy" of his large unit, but carried his smaller unit around with out fear, like it was a baby.
I guess it really was.
Just thinking.
Newton
Here is something new on the other site.
Newton
Sparks, something else too, the inventor said that South of the Equator the TPU worked in reverse.
Upside down?
DC reversed?
Something else?
I don't know what reverse means exactly, but I find the comment interesting.
Newton
yup...
they work in reverse,
on the other side of the Equator it produces power when up side down.....
and offcource not when it is held like in the video.
M.
On the other side of the Earth or South of the Equator?
Newton
you know what i mean...
like this.
Ok, so the current in the coils reverse, so you have to turn the TPU over to make it work South of the Equator?
Does the TPU stop working until you turn it over?
Does the polarity of the DC output reverse?
I think that is what you are saying.
I am a newbie here so I don't know.
Newton
no, i simply mean the device will only work up side down on the other side of the Equator.
the polarity is always the same it cannot function the other way.
at least this was in the early models, he had it fixed in the newer models.
these can be two or more tpu's on top of each other, one straight, and the other up side down, so it will work no matter it's orientation.
only the early models stop working when flipped over, the newer models alway's worked at any angle to the horizon.
M.
Ok, I got it now.
Thanks,
Newton
Don't know, just a thought.
Marco is this what you are talking about with the diagram?
Newton
Yes , the earth's field is actually like that of two magents - this described by Walter Russell and confirmed by Davis and Rawls. I have an image showing this somewhere.
hmmm
???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqEd3KHuEHU
Quote from: Newton007 on January 06, 2008, 09:25:15 AM
Marco is this what you are talking about with the diagram?
Newton
Which diagram do you mean?
M.
Quote from: Grumpy on January 06, 2008, 12:00:52 PM
Isn't the rotation a by-product of th events in the ring?
that seems to be correct.
Quote from: Grumpy on January 06, 2008, 12:00:52 PM
He also states that they are frequency dependend or sensitive (can't recall).
Frequency sensitive as in we cannot feed it's output directly into standard aplliances, it needs the use of an inverter.
M.
Marco, the picture you posted of the world.
That picture is from the coriolis force which is responsible for the direction of large tornados/cyclones/vortices etc.
M.
Hi Grumpy,
It is a whole new way to look at the Universe.
The information about the magnetic fields of the Earth I got off the web some where, NASA I think.
Newton
Tesla did it with 1 pulse 1 freq
that is the truth
@ newton may i ask you a question
to what kind of work did you do in colorado?!?!?!?!?!
perhaps you were under ground there eh! ;)
let it be knowen the truth will not lead you astray ;D
know your god cuz this is what it all boils down to ;)
ist i will walk talk and teach the truth
~~~~~~~WITHOUT FEAR FOR I KNOW WHEN I LEAVE THIS PLACE OF LEARNING I WILL SIMPLY JUST GO HOME ;D ;D ;D ~~~~~~~~
Hello
LET THE TRUTH BE TOLD!!!
the time is now
for the sake of our existence i recommend all watch the 4 videos in my Sig.....
who's damn team are we on !?!?!?!?!
ist
@ newton i would well think you know exactly what this is ..........
Marco, I understand the picture now I thought it was something else.
Newton
Can't say as I do.
Is this a test?
I always failed those ink blot tests as every one of them looked like an ice cream cone to me.
Newton
let this be know en
in me posting this i got a very bad head ache ........ almost instantally
newton do tell me where that came from.......
isteam!!
i will not be controlled thank you!!!! i will be screaming freedom in the streets where the peoples meet!!
I am not sure how to respond.
Do you need some Aspirin?
in case he doesn't need it, I DO!!
feel some noise comming up again...
Hi Marco,
Thank you for the information. I am new here and have only been here a few days so, I am trying to get up to speed on this TPU thing.
I hope I can help.
Newton
Always best to ignore the background noise if you can't get rid of it.
Quote from: Chef on January 06, 2008, 03:22:02 PM
Quote from: -[marco]- on January 06, 2008, 03:15:10 PM
in case he doesn't need it, I DO!!
feel some noise comming up again...
Nice avatar! ;) Can it fly?
That would be the ultimate goal...
The sky is the limit ;D
Hi Grumpy,
I got your "message". I am still new here.
Wow, you found some fly back transformers.
The wave form comes from the horizontal control circuit, then that wave form signal @ (14,000 > HZ) is fed to the grid of the horizontal output tube the big one if you have the set..
The transformer does not shape the wave form.
The power from the horizontal output tube powers the fly back transformer.
This is done at about 600 volts off the plate of the output tube. It would be hard to operate without the rest of the circuit and the schematic.
There is a damper tube also to control the fly back transformer.
It all works together as a unit.
If you do try to try to power it up with some square wave generator amp set up, watch the high voltage! about 16K!!! RF before the HV rectifier.
I am doing this from memory (1968) so don't quote me on this information. But do be carefull. It will jump out at you!
Do you see the design?
Remember, this is where the inventor's head was at, at some point before he invented his device.
Newton
I'll have to figure...
I want to say, 14,000 something HZ, but not sure,
However it is a industry standard and all US made sets used this same exact horizontal sweep frequency.
In the same exact wave form. Spike with a slope. The vertical output was at 60 HZ., so this was no good for HV generation for the CRT.
But the AC line power was used to synchronize the 60 HZ vertical sweep. So if you had trash on the power lines, your set would go whacko.
The transformer is designed for just one frequency sort of like the TPU except the fly back transformer had to be dead on frequency or the set would get those strange horizontal lines.
See the one loop HV rectifier heater winding?
See the insulation?
It was at high voltage potential too.
Then the horizontal oscillator tubes would get weak the frequency would drift and the set would go out of kilter, even though you still had a picture of sorts.
However there hundreds of different designs to do the same thing usually in a effort to save costs so as time went on they, after about 1971 turned to crap TVs, not even worth repairing, the BW ones any way.
The fly back has a special iron core, design, the TPU has a air core, ahhh something?
The TPU has to be off to one side of the frequency or according to the inventor. Boom!
Newton
I just went to Wickapedia and there is a whole lot of information on fly back transformers.
15734 HZ. dead on. so I was not too far off. Hey on E bay there is a fly back tester and a bunch of TV stuff. I like the web.
Newton
more winding...
Grumpy,
No, I don't remember the book, sounds interesting though,
I just went to several sites.
Do a Google search on fly back transformers, there is a lot of good information. I am going to study this as it has been a very long time away from this information.
I want to look at HV rectifiers solid state units used in later fly backs after the tube era.
There are hv diode push type circuits, that push up the voltage in the coils a little at a time between coil windings with each pulse. There may be something here. Don't know.
There is much catching up here for me.
There are some sites now that have old technical electronic books 1900 to about 1970, they have to be torn up to scan, so the book is worthless as the pages are torn out, but the information is secure stored and backed up allowing any one to read them on the web. It is great deal and they are always looking for old books.
Good luck with your new coil.
Newton
Grumpy,
Here is something that might be worth a shot.
Using an automotive distributer, old time point type, from a auto salvage and some ignition coil (s). (cheap)
A old small 120 volt AC DC brush type (appliance) motor connected to the shaft, a variac for the motor speed control,
A 12 volt DC power supply for the ignition coil (s)
A spark gap antenna/coil/ transmitter type set up out of the secondary of the ignition coil(s).
Speed control set to to 7.3 HZ or close.
May have to file down the lobes or use capacitors on the primary to get the wave form you want on the scope.
I would say a spike with a slope or just a spike. (kick)
Use this setup for the transmitter.
Do a rough set calculation on your receiver coil for 7.3 HZ.
Place some what close together, tune (fiddle with) your receiver coil until something shows in voltage.
Cross fingers.
But don't tune dead on or you might find the real 7.3 HZ. signal!
See what happens when you drink too much diet Pepsi? Stuff like this happens.
Newton
I did try the pencil experiment.
Grumpy,
Contact me off line.
Newton
8)
may i perscribe some orbit energy ;)
ist
Orbit energy? what the hell is that?
There is energy in pulses - period.
Reading up on wave symmetry - kinda interesting.
Waves with zero-axis symetry have no DC component and generally means no even harmonics. (except under certain conditions such as d\first and secon in-phase). Odd harmonics always combine, regardless of phase, to form zero-axis symmetry.
Waves with 1/2 wave symetry have no odd harmonics.
Waves with 1/4 wave symmetry have all harmonics in-phase with fundamental and this is always produced by even harmonics and will generally n ot exist with odd harmonics present.
Marking page as this may be more interesting later.
Say this 7.3hz signal interacts with the electrons in a conductor in such a manner that some of it's power adds to the electron velocity in the outer valence orbitals of say a copper conductor atomic structure. Then come along the kicks. A small electrical field which is just enough to add to the already excited electron's velocity. This results in the electrons leaving their orbitals and they express their kinetic energy which is in excess of the energy the kicker field production required. Now comes the tricky part. If nothing else happens the electrons will get pulled into another atom where they will stay (no more collector current). All we would have is a 7.3hz pulse. So what if in addition to the kicks we produce an electromagnetic wave circulating through the ring collector. This wave has enough power to keep the kicked electrons from getting sucked back into the atomic orbitals. So now the kinetic energy of the electrons begins to manifest as a dc current flow with a wave riding around on it. The collector atoms are electron starved and put out a strong protonic attractor charge. On top of that the kickers are running out of valence electrons to accelerate. The 7.3hz sun wave is now exciting electrons in subvalence orbitals but it is going to take one hell of a kick to get these babies off the ground. So you start to get heating of the collector windings instead of electron flow unless we get some photons to enter the system. If the protonic charge of the collector windings is capable of doing this then we start to get an unlimited energy converter going. Control of this converter is simple: limit the amount of protonic attracted charges from getting to the unit.
Put it in a frigging box and feed it some light when it starts to slow down.
Below is a diagram of how I understand the unit would work.
Remember the movie "Dune" and how "vibration" - like from a thumper or a mining vehicle - brought the worms?
@sparks
I 've tried to understand your theory but the pictures with characters in your web pages are too small.
Quote from: Grumpy on January 06, 2008, 11:05:38 PM
I'm thining more loang the lines of Rife's cloudbuster and the works of Russell:
To get rain the cloudbuster transmits the vibration of water and recieves a great deal of water as rainfall. Rife's cloudbuster is OU - guess it's how you look at it.
So, we send out our "signal" and then get the goods in return - more than we sent out.
There are some other words to describe this.
Remember the movie "Dune" and how "vibration" - like from a thumper or a mining vehicle - brought the worms? Kinda like that in a distant wierd way.
@grumpy
Funny coincidence. The electron orbitals in a conductor are often described as an electron cloud. They are very loosely bound to the neucleus.
Copper molecular structure is amorphourous or in other words with no defined bond angles from atom to atom. Just an everchanging cloud of electrons randomly drifting between atoms.
Can't resist drawing one more analogy between the tpu and Earth. That is the vortex storms on Earth. If you can think of the kicker's as the construct that creates an electron cloud independent of the conductor from whence the electrons came from
then an analogy can be drawn between that and the radiant energy of the Sun lifting up trillions upon trillons of gallons of water from the oceans everyday. The energy in the clouds is not just the radiant energy that lifted them but also contains the energy that was in the Ocean's relatively warm water to begin with. They are in a field now that is independent of the oceans from whence they came. If the clouds start to travel in an orbiting pattern (the wave I mentioned in a previous post) a low pressure area starts to form. (electron depleted collector winding). Now there is a guide for the ocean's energy to flow directly from the ocean to the cloud system independent of the radiant energy of the Sun. (protonic attraction of energy towards the inside of the tpu) The eye of the storm is analogous (is that a word) to the inner circle of the tpu. (Just where SM tells us to put the controls if you want them to work or not be destroyed) The cloud heigth builds and gets cooled off at the top which now causes a vertical vortex in all planes. This vertical vortex picks up energy from the ocean as it lower's the pressure as it sweeps across the ocean surface. This allows more watervapor to enter the system. (This is what you don't want to happen with your tpu or you are going to have an emp that isn't going to be very friendly) The only thing that stops the hurricane is it goes somewhere where there is colder ocean or it migrates overland where it finds less water vapor to feed on. That's why I keep on preaching that the only way to control the tpu is to have someway of limiting the flow of energy towards the collector winding. I also believe that when SM said he crushed coils he meant he crushed coils when they were operating. I notice that he puts a channel in the wooden bases to keep the coil from folding-up on itself and then coats the whole thing in an effort to fortify the whole collector. I believe once the collector gets going it's gravitational strength can cause it to like impode.
Quote from: Newton007 on January 06, 2008, 07:37:05 PM
Grumpy,
Here is something that might be worth a shot.
Using an automotive distributer, old time point type, from a auto salvage and some ignition coil (s). (cheap)
A old small 120 volt AC DC brush type (appliance) motor connected to the shaft, a variac for the motor speed control,
A 12 volt DC power supply for the ignition coil (s)
A spark gap antenna/coil/ transmitter type set up out of the secondary of the ignition coil(s).
Speed control set to to 7.3 HZ or close.
May have to file down the lobes or use capacitors on the primary to get the wave form you want on the scope.
I would say a spike with a slope or just a spike. (kick)
Use this setup for the transmitter.
Do a rough set calculation on your receiver coil for 7.3 HZ.
Place some what close together, tune (fiddle with) your receiver coil until something shows in voltage.
Cross fingers.
But don't tune dead on or you might find the real 7.3 HZ. signal!
See what happens when you drink too much diet Pepsi? Stuff like this happens.
Newton
If you are wanting to use a HV ignition coil you might want to look at a GM control module for triggering it. THis will eliminate the mechanical points you mentioned. I have several of these modules and it is relativly cheap ($10.00 USD) and can be obtained at your local auto parts store. Takes 12Vdc in and you can trigger the module using a simple Sq wave generator at what ever Freq you like (with in operating parameters). I have a set up like that and it works great. I used the setup for a jacobs ladder. I even used 2 ignition coils, one wired in opposite polarity to increase output.
Hope this helps
sorry
I would think that you need to build a small receiver that is tuned to the 7.3 hz wave. Then you know when the pulses are coming at you. It becomes a feedback sensor. Then you work from there to initiate your kicks. You don't want to phase lock the kicks to the wave or you are going to construct a wave that is going to have a shitload of amplitude and most likely blow all your stuff up if not you. :(
The problem is the low frequency and tuning to it. You need a lot of inductance and a lot of capacitance.
Carl,
Thanks for the information.
Your Idea is better of course, but my idea looks more, well experimental in a traditional way of the old time inventors.
Some big knife switches also help this effect too.
Newton
Grumpy,
Have you looked at the tapes yet?
Newton
Grumpy,
Well that is one of the problems,
I don't think there is a way to duplicate it here exactly.
So some kind of set up like I proposed might work or something similar.
My thinking is, that what I have proposed might be a starting place any way.
Newton
@grumpy
Very true. What if you use a higher frequency oscillator and see how the big wave hetrodynes. Something in the khz region. (SM was an audio engineer). Then blank out the hf and get a look at this puppy. Or you could run a big old antennae 1/2 way round the earth and catch a 1/2 wave. ;D
@Newton
I don't know where in my past but a heliologist said there were low frequency waves produced by the sun. He explained their genesis a little differently though. He said there is a hemispheric counter rotation of the surface of the sun. This gives rise to magnetic vortices along the slip of the two hemispheres. This results in minor repeating sunspot like activity along the whole equator of the sun as the vortices act as dynamos with the resulting electrical discharge. Nothing like the big vortices that create sunspot discharges that can lift entire oceans into the atmosphere for a number of months. That old sun can pack a real punch.
Quote from: zapnic on January 06, 2008, 12:27:18 PM
hmmm
???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqEd3KHuEHU
SM:"By the way, have you seen the video of the compass turning violently in
the center of the unit while in operation?
Notice that when I first turn the unit on that the compass starts to spin
very slowly.
it speeds up faster and faster until it just stops.
When it stops the unit is always operating at about it's design maximum.
We never found out why any of this occurred.
It tended to reinforce what I observed as the turbine effect.
When the unit is shut off the compass starts to revolve again and slowly
comes to a rest."
"Has anyone ever done any research on what happens when we
create a magnetic field and revolve it faster and faster.
What changes and at what speed or frequency of the pulsed field
do things suddenly change?"
funny thing look that video
there is sweet spot in magnetic vortex
http://www.andrijar.com/teslahom/index.html
Well, thinking out of the box, I can experiment with the "concept" by using coils in a range that is easy to create.
Here is something else too.
Like a spark plug in a car.
It is the sharp hot spark you want for ignition. "kick"
If it is some fuzzy voltage and current combination, the combustion in the cylinder is incomplete and wastfull of fuel.
A lot of expense has went in to ignition systems over the years to get the spark just right.
The spaces between the sparks don't count as far as the power to the spark plug part goe
The coil seems to be a combination antenna and power processor.
Or something like that.
Newton
I'm trying...
Quote from: Newton007 on January 07, 2008, 01:47:14 PM
Carl,
Thanks for the information.
Your Idea is better of course, but my idea looks more, well experimental in a traditional way of the old time inventors.
Some big knife switches also help this effect too.
Newton
@Newton, YW. Just trying to provide a inexpensive way to get er' done. :-)
Carl
(aka Starcruiser)
@Grumpy
Or you could use a television set like SM does. See the intense white bands in the picture on the TV. I thought it was from the sync with the video camera but maybe it is a low frequency signal. Always seems that tv set is on when sm is trying to rev up his tpu. Cheap ocscop? Anyone see what channel it is on. :)
@zapnic
I think the magnet is following the wave needed to keep the vortex current accelerated. This wave is also necessary to cause induction into the tpu secondarys. Once this wave is chasing it's own tail at I believe around 5000rps the torroidal shaped magnetic field produced by the vortex current is the main magnnetic player. It acts as a waveguide on the inner and outer sides of itself and is torroidal in shape. Not present in the quiet donut hole.
@all
I believe the smaller wattage units just work on the kick energy gain. This power conversion is limited by how much copper is in the collector winding. Plus it has an overheat problem when the kicks start to just add thermal energy to the copper. It is an awful lot of time and effort for 100watts of juice. So SM starts to scale up and hits upon the real deal when he starts to drive the vortex to higher energy levels. He could probably do it in a smaller one but there isn't much room for a control circuit and the unit is overheating when it runs out of valence electrons. At some energy level in the vortex rotation (SM refers to it as the frequency of conversion when it is really the level of electron circuation relative to the collector copper ) the electron deprived collector starts to suck in -energy forms. I believe the torroidal shaped mag field acts as a waveguide. (I noticed everybody here talks in wave language and not in photon packet language) But now he has the problem of energy charging the collector at all sorts of frequencies so at the very least you start to get an oscillation in the vortex speed and the wave riding atop it. This starts to raise all sorts of havoc with self-induction and the output becomes unstable. This is why I believe that the tpu needs a way to control the flow of energy into the system. In the smaller units yes the energy comes from within but to get the tpu in stable appreciable output there needs to be alot more refinement or abandon the whole design and regard it as what it is a discovery machine and make a better mouse trap.
I just lost my last post. I don't know where the H it went!!!!
Grumpy,
I think your e mail box is overloaded or something as I cannot contact you.
Newton
This site is not working right for some reason.
I'm a bit of a noob when it comes to electrical engineering. I'm able to read circuit diagrams and build some basic analog circuits so I do have a small grasp on what you guys have been discussing.
I'm hoping I may spark an idea in someone else, the collective intelligence here is amazing to me.
I've been reviewing Eric Dollar, and Konstanin Meyl's work recently, and I can't help but think the TPU is some form of longitudinal wave antenna.
Whether the energy is coming from the sun, or earths magnetic field, or the ionosphere, I have no idea.
But what I understand is you need a certain antenna shape to receive the frequencies you want.
Konstantin talks about 2 harmonics (term may be wrong) with his setup, 1 being the longitude wave, the other being the transverse (7.2 mhz and 4.6 mhz). This is very similar to what Eric Dollard talks about. Why these frequencies, I don't know, could be antenna shape, distance between transmitter and receiver.
These coils from old TVs Newton has been talking about recently, could have been accidentally tuned to receive the longitude wave. I believe he mentioned there were strange anomalies when color tvs first came out, a lot of sets "blowing up" (not a direct quote, I'm still trying to assimilate the vast amount of information on this message board).
I'm sure others have seen this video, but he does confirm a lot of Dollards work. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4615804709108706714&hl=de
I've also found another video by Meyl thats a bit longer with some different information on scalar vortices's. Only though bit torrent download though (not sure of the rules on this or I would post a link).
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kettering.edu%2F%7Edrussell%2FDemos%2Fwaves%2FLwave.gif&hash=e3d0f16426847ace08e5cdcc69d7f4021bad01d0) Looking at this simple example, I can see how there would be both AC and DC components to it.
I like to think this ties in to the "Electric Universe" and there is a connection between the sun and earth with vast amounts of potential energy in between.
Sorry to sound like a complete noob, I'll get back to lurking (and building a micro tpu!) now and leave this to the experts.
I've also go this gut feeling that its so simple its stupid, but without the proper knowledge its not easy to just "stumble upon" an answer.
Magroo,
Well that is the problem, as you say, "it is so simple it's stupid".
There is the problem in a nut shell.
Thanks for the input, we need it.
Newton
The
Another observation about the tpu construct. I believe that there is a flowing energy that tries to flow away from any concentration of itself. This is what gives rise to magnetic fields. It is the flow of this energy forced to flow in a path because of the space time construct of reality that gives rise to magnetism. Permanent magnets don't have magnetism in them they are just a construct that will cause flowing energy to take a predictable path. Well anyway whenever this flowing energy is caused to flow in a vortex it gives rise to an electrical potential through it's core. This energy is quite the opposite of flowing energy. It is driven by the force of concentration of energy The inverse is true whenever an electrical current flows it gives rise to vortex flow of "magnetic"energy. If you look at the tpu construct you have a funny thing happening. The normally vectored flow of electrical energy is taking on the form of a vortex. So now the flow type energy vortex around the collector has to deal with a unique situation. It not only needs to flow in a vortex around the tpu collector winding but also needs to flow so it doesnt concentrate flowing energy anywhere else. So it starts to create a magnetic field that is very much like the Earth's. Polar with a dead zone through the middle like the 22mile diameter dead zone at Earth's poles where compasses don't know what to do.
I believe the tpu is an antennae that is magnetic in nature. It isn't just a stick of steel at a certain wavelength or a tuned inductor. It is a magnetic antennae. It responds to the magnetic portion of an em wave and not the electrical field of the wave. It is a big sphere of magnetic influence upon which many em waves can react at many frequencies. It will react with a magnetic wave in a predictable manner regardless of the wavelength. Just like the Earth deals with all sorts of em waves emitted by the sun. The magnetosphere doesn't manifest itself for no reason at all. It is what Earth does to shuttle huge amounts of energy in and out of it's system. Without this magnetic system Earth would have been burnt into oblivion a long time ago. It transfers the em radiation from the sun into rotation. It drives an electronic vortex in the iron core of the Earth that fortifies itself. It traps ions that absorb other forms of em from the sun which keeps us from burning up. Man I like f**cking around with magnets. I don't know about you but the first time I saw them two little bar magnets pop apart I was hooked. ;D
I wrote two pages of information only to get knocked off when I tried to post.
Well OK.
Newton (ea.)
offtopic:
I have made a habit of always copying new posts to the clipboard before posting it. That way I still have the text when posting fails.
For windows: Hit Ctrl-A (select all), then hit Ctrl-C (copy to clipboard)
HTH
Quote from: Newton007 on January 08, 2008, 06:51:25 AM
I wrote two pages of information only to get knocked off when I tried to post.
The error message says that someone (not Me) has exceeded their storage space limit so I get knocked off.
100,000 something.
I am not a computer geek so, I don't know what it is talking about.
So I don't know what is going on.
Grumpy this is why I can't contact you.
This web site is screwed up for some reason.
No sense making a long post only to get cut off.
If it don't get fixed I will post my email address here so you can see it then remove it.
Newton
Hi,
You are experiencing the same problem like randomly some of us, this was reported already here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3893.0.html Forum Access Problem
Hopefully Stefan will take steps when he is back from holidays soon...
In the meantime I suggest you write your answers first in a separate word/text editor and when ready you can copy and paste your text into the Forum thread as if you were writing it in, ok? This way should it be lost, you can repost it again, no loss will occur.
Rgds, Gyula
EDIT: Just seen Marcel suggested also a good thing in the meantime I was typing :)
Thanks to everyone, May be that is what I need to do. Save the information first, then post until the problem can be solved.
I have a Western Digital unit sitting here next to my laptop in case my computer blows up.
I had a hard drive crash twice on me and 4 times at work so I learned (as usual) the hard way.
You mean the clip board on windows XP?
Newton
About the 7.3 or whatever hz. If you have one frequency F1 of 6000 and a second F2 of 6007.3, you will have a beat frequency of F2-F1 = 7.3.
The 7.3 is not necessarily the driving frequency. If you find the resonance freq of your coil for F1, then drive the second at F1 + 7.3. Slightly off.
But, frequency is dependent on TPU circumference.Now that I know the general terminology of control and collector thanks to EM's persistent patience with me, with thanks EM, circumference cannot relate to the vertical control wire since the control wire length is relative to the wire gauge and number of turns which is to much of a variable. The only coil relative to circumference is the horizontal collector. Although I am using the terms backwards in the following post, it does touch upon the relationships of the horizontal collector int he 17" TPU.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3279.msg52409.html#msg52409
But in a nutshell, I am cutting/and pasting some of that long post for brevity.
******************
The first meaningful thing SM ever said about the TPU was when he gave the Tesla style technique "apply a capacitor discharge to a wire, but stop the current before it could reach the end of the wire".
A 17" TPU has a circumference of 53.38 inches or 4.4833 feet.
I have identified that the TPU has 6 horizontal white wires. So if you had a continuous discharge wire going around the circumference for 6 turns, on the outside but in one continuous wire, this would give 26.8998 feet of wire (rounded to 27 feet) traveling horizontally over the TPU core.
Electricity travels at 185000 miles per second divided by 5280 feet per mile = 976,800,000 feet per second.
To stop the current before it reaches the end of a 27 foot wire, you will need to do this faster than 36,177,777 cycles per second or 36.2mhz. At this frequency with a 27 foot wire length that has control coil wrapped around it, the collector wire will eject perpendicular energy into the control coils.
Up till not, I have always wanted to test this as I know of no one who has done it yet. NO ONE. SM must be thinking what a damn shame. My lack of EE savvy is my reason. This TEST should have been clarified a long time ago, since day one in fact. If someone can explain to me how I can accomplish such fast pulsing, please tell me how and what I need. z_p_e is no longer around for me to ask him in the Faux Pas thread. If I don't have it, I will buy it. Just tell me how.
This one view of mine on the possible TPU workings is the reason why I always called the horizontals the control coils and the verticals the collectors. By stopping the current fast enough on the horizontals (control), the verticals will collect the perpendicular discharges (collector).
But from now on I will play this TPU terminology game as you guys are doing, but always with some reservation because if you take explicit verbiage of SM, you would have to come to another understanding. But I guess that's another story.
But think of this. Why do you think the new European Electron Induction Accelerator is sooooooooooooooo long?
retracted
What about the DC in the collector? (DC with some "hash" - not the smokable stuff)
Is DC the direct output?
Quote from: sparks on January 07, 2008, 06:23:36 PM
@zapnic
I think the magnet is following the wave needed to keep the vortex current accelerated. This wave is also necessary to cause induction into the tpu secondarys. Once this wave is chasing it's own tail at I believe around 5000rps the torroidal shaped magnetic field produced by the vortex current is the main magnnetic player. It acts as a waveguide on the inner and outer sides of itself and is torroidal in shape. Not present in the quiet donut hole.
5000rps
ha ha
look this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUOVhIxLKb4&feature=related
turbine goes 11000rpm
funny thing happens when use magnets on turbine
VAU ;D
why field goes zero and reverse ???
Way too nice a pic to pass by
Have you seen this?
http://utenti.lycos.it/fischerconsulting/testatpu.html
F_dyne
SM mentioned ""inertia" and "momentum" at one point while trying to explain the TPU - and also that high frequencies are the real catalyst.
Can a TPU be excited to a point of saturation or overdamped?
The reference to wing design and passing the sound barrier was an "analogy".
Perhaps he meant to imply something like this:
"Along the mach line the millions of small pressure waves add up creating a very strong pressure wave, with highly compressed (dense) air, called a shockwave."
@zapnic
I believe the wave riding on top of the dc vortex current is running around at
5000 rotations per second. This wave is used to induce current into the secondary windings of the tpu. Picure a little bar magnet getting whirred around at 5000 rotations per second.
I
Quote from: Grumpy on January 08, 2008, 05:47:48 PM
The reference to wing design and passing the sound barrier was an "analogy".
Perhaps he meant to imply something like this:
"Along the mach line the millions of small pressure waves add up creating a very strong pressure wave, with highly compressed (dense) air, called a shockwave."
Yes, YES and Yes! I stated long ago in my thread and hold to it this day that SM wanted us to understand "how" they discovered the correct configuration to break the speed barrier. Not try to take the actual wing configuration. IMHO.
These pressure waves, I believe are the accelerator of the electrons.
@ Otto
I think that if you wound your collectors as Litz wire, You would have greater success, if the "phenomenon of magnetic collection" is taking place by rotating the weak magnetic field, visa via the control coil pulses of the three "secret" frequencies.
I have ordered my Litz wire today. 35 ft of 675 strand, individually insulated. If it is a weak magnetic field causing some of the current in the collector, Litz is the way to go. Only for the collectors of course.
Cheers,
Bruce
QuoteElectricity travels at 185000 miles per second
Well I do not know what Electricity is ( leave aside the tech books ) and what is it's speed ... I have found this site in one of my searches and it seems to be relevant to give some light on the question: http://amasci.com/miscon/speed.html ... sorry that this may add more to the confusion.
...........
Thanks for posting SM, Chef.
"I want you to start and think of the generator principles the exact
same way that passing the sound barrier was accomplished.
Read how the engineers in this country finally developed the proper wing
design to accomplish super sonic speed in aircraft.
I hope it will give you a picture of what is going on inside the generator
and especially the collector"
How did they develop the wing? Using pressure waves produced inside of a wind tunnel. The collector is a circle. We know that for a fact! So what is going on inside the collector? Grumpy said it well. How? These three frequencies. We now have the proper circuit potential with the 3 stack tpu. IMHO
The only things I want to change, is:
a. Use Litz for the collectors. And perhaps for the feedback coil as well.
b. Use 1 tube, with a frequency divider to provide the pulses.
c. I do not want my control wires connected to the collectors. I want the current to STOP. ;)
Cheers,
Bruce
In acoustics waves have "pressure" and "displacement".
In electromagnetics waves have "voltage" and "current".
Respectively, so voltage is pressure and displacement is current.
How does kinetic energy fit in?
Quote from: Grumpy on January 09, 2008, 11:40:22 AM
In acoustics waves have "pressure" and "displacement".
In electromagnetics waves have "voltage" and "current".
Respectively, so voltage is pressure and displacement is current.
How does kinetic energy fit in?
Sound waves as we experience them aren't like em waves. They are totally dependent on the media through which they travel and the viscosity of the media. The kinetic energy of the speaker is transferred directly into the media. They basically broke the sound barrier by designing a quiet wing profile. Before that the kinetic energy of the "speaker" would get stored in a field that was increasingly compressed and amplified as the speaker started to travel closer and closer to the speed at which the sound waves were traveling. When the wing would enter this field the field would get shocked and let go it's stored energy with a vengence. (I lived near a base and remember the jets breaking glass in my pop's garage windows back in the late 50's early 60's.) Same thing happens in rocket engines also but this media is plasmic.
SM with his analogy to the wing could be warning folks about synchronizing the kicks with the wave created by the time displaced kicker currents. If the kicks synchronize with the wave it causes energy to be stored in the wave instead of doing work which is to create a DC type flow in a vortex type path.
The wave is just there for induction into the secondary output windings.
There is no reason why an electrical field can not be oscillating at an acoustical frequency. It is an extremely long wavelength though. The military built 30mile long antennaes in an attempt to transmit frequencies through the ground. It worked but what is interesting is that all sorts of pops and whistles were received from scources inside the Earth. There is longwave energy down there.
@Grumpy
Do em waves really have current? They provoke a current in a receiver but if they are in a vacuum they exist only as an exchange between potential energy and kinetic energy due to the play of magnetism and electricity. They are just another example of the play between the two fundamental forces of attraction and dispersion.
SM Quote
"I want you to start and think of the generator principles the exact
same way that passing the sound barrier was accomplished.
Read how the engineers in this country finally developed the proper wing
design to accomplish super sonic speed in aircraft.
I hope it will give you a picture of what is going on inside the generator
and especially the collector"
1)"I want you to start and think of the generator principles the exact
same way that passing the sound barrier was accomplished".---The sound barrier was broken by understanding the "qualities" of air under all conditions. In a generator we must understand inductance (L) ,Resistance (R) and Capacitance (C) and how they relate to the qualities of electrical energy produced.
2)"Read how the engineers in this country finally developed the proper wing
design to accomplish super sonic speed in aircraft."---The proper wing design was tapered and thin to reduce the shock wave which rendered rudder/aileron control ineffective. In a conventional generator current flow is always opposed rendering the generator ineffective, this process can be reversed by using an inductive discharge to overcome all opposition to flow, as the voltage rises through resistance. The inductive discharge can charge a primary coil and be stored in a capacitor for futher use.
3)"I hope it will give you a picture of what is going on inside the generator
and especially the collector"--- The collector is the primary coil, having no resistance to flow, all resistance or opposition is overcome through a rising potential.
@sparks
QuoteSound waves as we experience them aren't like em waves. They are totally dependent on the media through which they travel and the viscosity of the media.
Here is what Tesla has to say------
QuoteThe so?called Hertz waves are still considered a reality proving that light is electrical in its nature, and also that the ether is capable of transmitting transverse vibrations of frequencies however low. This view has become untenable since I showed that the universal medium is a gaseous body in which only longitudinal pulses can be prop?agated, involving alternating compressions and expansions similar to those produced by sound waves in the air. Thus, a wireless transmitter does not emit Hertz waves which are a myth, but sound waves in the ether, behaving in every respect like those in the air, except that, owing to the great elastic force and extremely small densi?ty of the medium, their speed is that of light.
Sound Waves you say ;)
We could also state that the qualities of electrical energy are dependent on the media through which they travel and the viscosity of the media because the conductor be it metal or air influences Capacitance, Inductance and Resistance. Here is what Tesla has to say about building an effective electrical generator----
QuoteThe essential parts of such an oscillator are: a condenser, a self-induction coil for charging the same to a high potential, a circuit controller, and a transformer which is energized by the oscillatory. discharges of the condenser. There are at least three, but usually four, five or six, circuits in tune and the regulation is effected in several ways, most frequently merely by means of an adjusting screw. Under favorable conditions an efficiency as high as 85% is attainable, that is to say, that percentage of the energy supplied can be recovered in the secondary of the transformer. While the chief virtue of this kind of apparatus is obviously due to the wonderful powers of the condenser, special qualities result from concatenation of circuits under observance of accurate harmonic relations, and minimization of frictional and other losses which has been one of the principal objects of the design.
There are at least three circuits in tune you say ;)
QuoteThroughout space there is energy. Is this energy static or kinetic! If static our hopes are in vain; if kinetic ? and this we know it is, for certain ? then it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheelwork of nature.
Hopefully sooner than later!
Best Regards
@all canadien
Sound waves do not exist in a vacuum. They need like ocean waves a media to pass through. EM waves travel through a vacuum because of their magnetic field propogation. I think Telsa was talking about his technique of using the Earth's crust as a huge antennae upon which he transmitted electrical oscillations he created by charging capacitors with dynamos and discharging them and creating an em wave that was in the thousands of horsepower strength. He used the Earth crust like a stick antennae. The wave propogation longitudinally because the antennae was longitudinal.
He was using between 10 and 20 thousand volts at 50khz or more to pump up this antennae. I don't think he would get permitting for this activity now adays. :)
It is interesting though the idea of a soundwave type propogation of an electrical wave. If the tpu creates an electronic media which consists of electrons freed of their atomic orbitals they create the media. Electronic air so to speak. Then yes a wave could be propogated and travel like a sound wave does through a push pull of the near media.
hmmmmmmm
Might want to have a look here: http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3960.0.html
Telsa was a master of the standing wave. By pumping more and more energy into a
standing wave he could produce voltage potentials that are awesome. At some point the potential would overcome the dielectric of the field and an electrical current would insue. In air this current would ionize the field atoms and you get lightning. But in the ground you get a stable electrical discharge. By controlling the amplitude of the Earth bound standing wave he could control the RF flash over current to create an oscillating electrical current in the Earth. As he stated the emwave energy is conserved and converted into current as needed.
The tpu creates a standing orbiting field whose energy is stored in spin velocity of the field.
This electrical vortex is analogous to an atmospheric vortex whereby diffused energy fields are collected and concentrated in the spin velocity of the storm. Once the tpu initiates the spin field it converts diffuse potential energy fields into spin velocity of the propogated electrical field. This energy is extracted from the vortex via inductive coupling of the field to output windings. Something like spinning a bar magnet around a winding at 300,000 rpm.
I'm not sure why yet, but something is telling me to post this link here:
http://www.geocities.com/ageofmagnetizm/index
Yes, weirdo is my middle name ;)
Hello all,
as the 1. post in this topic about TPUs is the most relevant I ever saw, Im posting here a big NOTHING because Im not able in this moment to work on my TPU AND I dont want the people forget dfros words.
Is somebody able to add 1 + 1 (dfros words and the pictures from Mannix) and build a TPU??
@Stefan Hartmann
if you read this post maybe you can place this topic on top of all topics in the SM forum.
Otto
Hi Sparks,
Being an uneducated guy, I often ask a question to which I never really receive an answer. You seem to know, so perhaps you would be so kind.
We are told that an atom supports the existence of a magnetic field, ie a magnetic field cannot exist on its own as it emanates from an atom, it is created by the atom/mass.
How then does a magnetic field radiate off through space which is devoid of any mass to support the magnetic field?
Regards,
Dave.
Quote from: sparks on January 11, 2008, 11:10:26 AM
Sound waves do not exist in a vacuum. They need like ocean waves a media to pass through. EM waves travel through a vacuum because of their magnetic field propogation.
Magnetism is an effect rising from inertial force. It resists change. I view energy as change always resisted by inertia. So those magnetic lines of force stretched out into space are an inertial force reacting to energy or change force. The magnetosphere propogated by an electrical vortex. The electrical vortex flowing because it made the magnetosphere. It's like magnetism holds up change or stops time and then says ok if you want to do that I'll make sure you do that, cause I'm going to do this.
That's why we can say energy is stored in a magnetic field. Energy having to become potential energy while magnetism get's it's ass in gear.
Hi guys,
I've discovered another thread on this forum discussing the Thrapp motor/generator (in the NEWS section , the "self running 900 wattt generator." thread) , and I realized some things and have been inspired regarding the TPU principles, and I proposed a concept. Check it out at this link:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3764.msg81280.html#msg81280
What do you think? We can discuss it here or there, either way.
EM
Hi EMdevices and All:
Is this kind of what we are looking at. Note - simplified illustration not to scale.
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.phonecotech.com%2FOverU%2FToriodal12.gif&hash=07679d73bd2f7f28c74925f3dc225b70554d7032)
A copper coil and an iron or soft steel coil. Copper coil receiving ping at proper timing to cause tuned resonate vibrations, in turn causing induced currents to flow.
This has been on my mind for a while and some I think have been hinting at something like this.
Thanks and take care.
nap
looks good slapper ;D
I guess the question remains outstanding...! I am sorry Sparks, but if that was meant to answer the question, it just sounds like every other I have been given, which is "I dont really have an answer, but here is my opinion".
Regards,
Dave.
Quote from: CTG Labs on March 04, 2008, 09:25:05 AM
Hi Sparks,
Being an uneducated guy, I often ask a question to which I never really receive an answer. You seem to know, so perhaps you would be so kind.
We are told that an atom supports the existence of a magnetic field, ie a magnetic field cannot exist on its own as it emanates from an atom, it is created by the atom/mass.
How then does a magnetic field radiate off through space which is devoid of any mass to support the magnetic field?
Regards,
Dave.
Quote from: sparks on January 11, 2008, 11:10:26 AM
Sound waves do not exist in a vacuum. They need like ocean waves a media to pass through. EM waves travel through a vacuum because of their magnetic field propogation.
@ctg labs
I guess I'll just simplify my opinion. :) Magnetic lines of force are inertial lines of force.
Hi Sparks,
Thanks for the reply. Guess I still don't get it. Force cannot be present without mass? No mass, no intertia? No mass, no possibity for a magnetic field to exist as what is producing it!
Regards,
Dave.
PS. Good to get someone who finally replys to my question, thanks!
Quote from: sparks on March 08, 2008, 05:39:35 AM
@ctg labs
I guess I'll just simplify my opinion. :) Magnetic lines of force are inertial lines of force.
"No mass, no intertia" I think you nailed it. Mass comprised of potential energy. The relative inertia of each body of mass being the force that causes energy exchange between the two bodies or inertial frames. Faraday's law states that an electrical potential will arise at the interface between two magnetic fields of differing flux or direction. Two cars moving down the highway one behind the other, no inertial exchange between the two-no voltage. One increases it's inertia by stepping on the gas ( we see it as speeding up when actually we just changed the cars inertia) One changes it's inertia by stepping on the brakes. If the relative direction of the two inertial frames is non-interfering: the car in front speeds up the car in back hits the breaks. No voltage. You know what happens when it is the other way around. All of a sudden the potential energy stored in the inertial frames is exchanged until they equalize their inertia and relative direction.
Magnetic field-Inertial frame same thing.
Just a comment on "sound waves" references and quotes from SM earlier in the thread...
Sound waves are LONGITUDINAL ! Regular EM energy (radio waves) are TRANSVERSE.
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geo.arizona.edu%2Fxtal%2Fnats101%2F6_4.jpg&hash=6aedbd31f85eacf52715e75e08240e673a6ab08e)
That's a slinky by the way. ;)
A longitudinal wave can be produced electrically by selfinduction of a coil experiencing high-frequency pulses. The energy inducing into the next turn instead of applying voltage across the whole coil and waiting for the current to flow. Each coil acts as a transformer primary and secondary. First coil emf manifests (more or less instantaneously depending on the reactance of the wire) with the applied voltage which induces a magnetic field change in the next coil and so on down the coil. You can see by this that the kickwindings turn has to be matched inductively to the preceding coil. Sometimes the emf never even gets to the end of the coil and you effectively choked the high-frequency from passing into the rest of the circuit. That's why you need a couple of frequency inputs in the tpu because of the transformation losses between each kick winding coil. SM may have used bailing wire between the coils of his kick windings so that this inductive distribution of energy is definitely going to happen. I am not sure if Tesla did this or not in his primary windings, but either way it's a good way to insure direction of the apparent magnetic field flow.
I can't wait to start experimenting with this....
sparks, what sort of high frequencies are you referring to? khz-Mhz ?
also, can you think of any good ways of measuring longitudinal waves?
thanks,
Feynman