has anyone seen this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGR9JNH90_4
is this different from the others?
eden
another more exciting clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2LiHkefxwY
hmmm did mike run out of ppl to sell his mag motor too? ::)
Yet another Perendev's UFFO ???
'Unsoldable' Fallacious & Fantastic Object :o
More seriously: if there is no Meyer/Lawton-type circuit, the volume of hydrogen production sounds huge according to the claimed amps consumption.
Best
He should be producing way more than that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsNUgwcDrbU
DallasGoldBug
Hi DallasGoldBug,
Actually, your unconventional and exotic design looks very efficient.
Few questions please:
How many amps are your consuming?
There is no electronics (and not yet a spinning turbine) in your device?
Where did you get your stainless steel cups from? Camping gear?
Best
DALLAS thats WILD !!!! POST More !! Chet
Thank you for the comments.
The cups are 4 for $1 at Walmart. (hard to find, next to the kitchen strainers bottom shelf) They are a real drill bit killer. I had to make a jig out of wood so I could hold them for drilling. Every position and clamp I tried would bend them. Ended up turning them upside down, then put a board with a hole cut in it over the cup that slid down to the rim. Then I stood on the sides of the board and drilled down.) Im sure theres someone out there with a better way of doing it. Dont try to hold them, they will bind up and hurt you >:( The other difficult thing is getting all the holes in the exact same location on all the cups. They wont stack straight otherwise.
The rest of the unit minus the plastic came from Home Depot. (stainless nuts, washers, threaded rod, plastic spacers, plastic washers, and RTV). No electronics other than the car battery disconnect switch. Ive been testing different materials for possible electrodes for many years now. These cups with the rounded lip produce more gas than anything Ive seen. You can add more cups to increase the resistance and gas production.
The battery is a Exide Technologies 12v motorcycle battery YB12A-A rated at 12ah. My multimeter has a 10amp limit so I cant give you exact numbers on the amps. Just for a estimate Ill visit homedepot tomorrow and pick up some fuses to throw in line.
I have hooked it up to a hacked 400watt computer power supply. Just google "hacked computer power supply" for the instructions. The 5V put out 40amps and the 12v 20amps. Testing the unit on each produced about the same as Im getting with the battery.
DallasGoldBug
A DALLAS BOOSTER SWEET . maybe worthy of its own pdf 4 cups for a dollar ' that works' low current high volume nice please keep us updated much appreciated Chet
BALLS Some how I missed your video 100watts is producing all that? have you /is there a formula to calculate BTU per litre hydroxy gas I see a furnace/water heater here Chet
DALLAS have you tried slitting fins in cup lips and twisting into a fan configuration to achieve vortex effect spiraling/ spinning from the bottom up Chet
A while back, I was building a cell and accidentally bought the wrong size pvc pipe to use with the cups. I thought no prob, ill just trim them down. After I cut about 1/4 off the top I began to wonder if that would effect its efficiency. I decided to test it in a mason jar like I do whenever testing new electrode material. Makes it easy to observe through glass. (funny note, I remember in earlier units epoxying small glass port holes in the side of the pvc to observe bubbles and liquid level.)
I learned this alteration killed the unit. Part of the efficiency has to do with the rolled rim at the top combined with the v shaped sides of the cups. The cylinder shape to the cup was the basis for the entire design. In prior posts I talk about the sound wave theory and how only round speakers are able to produce true sound, other formats like 6x9 cannot due to distorting the sound wave. I wanted to treat the electrode in a similar manner as speakers. My theory is that current flows from positive to MOST negative (path of least resistance) we all know this. Therefore the shape of the electrodes must be shaped symmetrical, in order to allow the electrons to flow outward from the connection point evenly, like the ripples in a pond move out in a circle. Cells that use rec plates, In my opinion produce less gas approaching the corners, and/or create hot spots due to the electrons bunching up as it narrows to a point. Heat reduces the gas production while increasing the temp of the electrolyte, both bad.
I understand your thoughts to create the vortex naturally with the upward motion of the bubbles guided by slits. If you do this the slits will break the dynamics of the, almost airfoil effect, and loose the bubbles ability to collide and dislodge the bubbles from the surface on the above cup. But by creating a vortex from the bottom with something like a turbine propeller, and keeping the smooth rounded shape of the cup will spin and suck in the bubbles tight to the smooth surface.
My opinion only. You may be correct.
Something else I notice on other cells is they place the power connections for the plates far apart. I place mine parallel and close enough that they effectively produce gas as well as the cups. Just adding to the gas production.
Like I said...These are my opinions only, and would love someone to school me.
I would be very interested to speak with someone who could produce a thermal image of the electrodes in action, just to see if there are uneven hot spots. Another interesting test would be to observe the magnetic field it produces. That would show areas with poor electron flow.
Again..
These are ONLY my opinion.
Thanks for everyones input, Im getting tuns of good feedback.
Oh yeah look at youtube did a liter per minutes test....2ltr/min
DallasGoldBug
Very good and usefull information
Do you know about the milage on your Bike?
helmut
Mileage on bike? Im confused. Might be my h2o on the brain.
Just did a amp test not satisfied with the results so Im going to throw a 15amp fuse in line and see it it blows. The multimeter was showing an open when clearly it wasn't. Then it jumped around an stayed on 14a for a sec the jumped to 19a then 10a. Volts ranged from 7-11.
Dallas I also saw somewhere A motor cycle associated with you maybe in the U tube description However IM interested in finding the most efficient possible way to do this mostly to use in home heating you bring together some cool ideas' thermal imaging ' similar elec field detection device RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW information COOL I've been looking at thermal Image cameras for some time and completely agree with you [never thought of it myself my app is for business] would be a huge advantage in this field as well as others here[forum] I would like to assist in this /your train of thought I have ness tools to try the cups in vortex left and right config tell me how many and template for holes and I will make them and send them to you so you can determine if this is realistic Chet PS of coarse I will need the part #
While on the subject of different energy measuring devices, Wilhelm Reich developed an Experimental Life-Energy Field Meter that may prove useful:
http://www.orgonelab.org/cgi-bin/shop.pl/SID=1206469145.87429/page=ylemeter.htm
The Experimental Life-Energy Field Meter meter works along entirely new principles quite different from any other measuring device currently on the market. Is entirely different from ordinary "EM-field" meters. It is not responsive to electromagnetic fields, nor to static magnetic or electrostatic fields. An electrostatically-charged plastic comb or wand, for example, will show no reactions to the Life Energy Field Meter, other than what would occur from the same plastic comb or wand without the electrostatic charge. This is quite different from the usual voltmeter, which reacts strongly to electrostatic fields. Likewise, no greater readings will be developed between an ordinary piece of metal, or the same piece of metal stronly magnetized.
INDIANA thanx I don't have enough time right now but will definately look at this later thanx for the post Chet
Dallas........sweeeeeeeet setup.
I stand corrected, your unit looks like it produces more than mine.
Have you had a chance to measure the output?
I'm running at about 20-25 inches of water column at 30 amps nonpulsed.
My setup is 6 -1 1/2" tubes around 1- 1 1/2" tube all silversoldered together, then 4 more tubes within those.going down in size at 1/4" increments from 1 1/2" to 1 1/4", to 1" to 3/4" to 1/2".
It looks like a gatlin gun, so I call it Darbees gatlin.
Unlike people wanting to sell this info, like you I give it away for free. What irks me more than anything are people selling these things like they are a 1 size fits all setup. When piping it in people need to know if they have a wide band O2 sensor, a narrow band, (with narrow band 0-1v, with 1v being rich, and a wide band is 0-5v with zero being lean) if its a 2,3,or 4 wire setup, if they have dual exhaust manifold sensors or just pre-and post catalytic sensors. It'll make a huge differance on what kind of gas mileage they get when adding in the HHO setup, and could make the gas mileage worse if they dont trick the ECM.
Which varies from manufacturor to manufacturor.
Looking for a schematic for a dual LED air/fuel meter, know where I can get one? Or how I can build an LED indicator that reads 0-1v dual?
I'd greatly appreciate it.
Thanks and have a great day
Darbee63
Hey indiana, where you from?
or maybe you can help me on my LED 0-1v schematic
Thanks
Darbee63
Quote from: DallasGoldBug on March 25, 2008, 12:38:42 PM
Mileage on bike? Im confused. ......................
@DallasGoldBug
No need to be confused
Somehow i saw your work related to a bike.
So my idea was to ask you what succsess it brough.
Since some time i think to supply a Hydrogen producer on my small bike.
As the price on the pump will hit the 2.5? per Liter in germany,the individual
mobility will collapse.People will start to do own experiments and perhaps
open there mind to free energy.
Thats the time to be prepared for.
So if you have any result or knowledge about practice in driving a engine
by hydrogen,please do not forget to post here.
Your electrolyser is very efficiant and many of us will replikate.
Thanks for share and open source it with us.
helmut
hi
whilst actually just mucking about with the kids the other day we came across this it worked so well we put it on you tube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95ThCLkzi0I it solved two problems one knocking the bubbles off and the other easy stacking of cells we are now going full out to develop a lager version . the gravity is 1200 batter y was a nearly discharged 12v 12.5 amp ,(dont use a fully charged one without regulation as currant is too high for one cell)what we used was two tea strainers in stainless , pleasee disregard the discolouration as that is from a previous experiment using copper .which was far too messy. the acid to water ratio is about 30 of old batt acid to normal calcinated tap water (we live on chalk) have fun ! ps we found large bubbles forming under the mesh so decided to invert the cell and it worked faster . with more current it really belts out hho at great rate.
all the best
Keith Sinclair
S.E.R.L. (Were into research into free electricity via overunity and gravity) but we may change direction lol
Kieth thanx great idea lots of surface area with minimul actual stainless in soup should cut down on heat plus its shaped like a cup sugested in this thread to be important I am looking for use in home heating so i was wondering if you had any info on BTU of these gasses anything i end up building i will provide to this forum thanx Chet
DALLAS I see your point regaurding the cups in VORTEX perhaps a vortex collar {abs plastic] would do the job and still not compromise your acoustic effect but still scrub off the bubbles I saw your vids last night very high production thanks again Chet
Hello all, sorry for my delayed response. Its been busy around here Im getting over 1000 views a day on the youtube videos. I ran test yesterday using a shunt so i could get a reading on my multimeter.
Massive results, data is being reviewed and Ill attempt to document it better tomorrow. .5 ltr in 15sec
from a 12v 12ah small motorcycle battery amps is estimated just over 40a Running the battery straight into the cell has not created any thermal problems and the electrolyte temp is surprisingly holding steady.
The construction of the cell im sure can withstand a good long production period. But since Im in my condo Im hesitant risking a bang. Neighbors already wonder about me as it is. Carrying massive servers to condo up 3 flights of stairs at 4am, purchased from Dallas First Saturday swap meet. (starts at 10pm on Friday and goes till 5am crazy stuff for sale. A wonderland where the mind can run as free finding treasures galore for a buck or two. It sensor over load like an apartment kept dog let loose to run on his weekly park visit. run run run dallasgoldbug run run fall down from exhaustion.
Any way....
Cell performed great but bubble buster failed and test had to stop when electrolyte filled trap and entered volume test chamber
Darbees gatlin funny!
a LED air/fuel meter, you mean like a digital flow gauge? to be mounted where? Like a NOS plate inserted between intake manifold and your Massive DUAL CHROMED EDLEBROCK 4BRL? sorry got carried away.
Yes tricking the ECM and cant forget retard the timing.
helmut - yes intend on putting the other cell in video in my car 97 Mitsubishi eclipse should do well only 2.0 nonturbo. Friends from weatherford TX are hounding me to build cells to strap on the back of their 1ton pickups. The large cell I planned out will double as a HHO cutting rig/HHO fuel to run truck. Lots of room to mount units on pickups. These friends have ranches and are Oil and Gas company men that want to look cool to others when they start cutting with HHO torch while are hauling around OXY Aced Tanks.
Chet yes thermal Image cameras are something Im keeping my eye out for at the swap meets.
I can think of a few ways to incorporate my HHO cell into the home heating market. We can chat later.
Chet you in US?
Yea the motorcycle thing was thinking out loud about how this cell would look cool with two cylinders in v formation on a totally stainless bike. Running HHO / electric together. Check out killacycle http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDHJNG2PngQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDHJNG2PngQ)
Heres something for everyone http://stinet.dtic.mil/srch/search?searchview=A1382701929DEBB3581BB62F8C5CE863B102D138B56258C8&changequery=1&c=06595E6113B0DB96&c=92BA3BB444F54185&q=hydrogen+fuel&template=/search-results.html&submit=Search (http://stinet.dtic.mil/srch/search?searchview=A1382701929DEBB3581BB62F8C5CE863B102D138B56258C8&changequery=1&c=06595E6113B0DB96&c=92BA3BB444F54185&q=hydrogen+fuel&template=/search-results.html&submit=Search)
Good hydrogen info I have never heard of.
Lots of goodies
Im trying to keep up
DallasGoldBug
hi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95ThCLkzi0I
see our vid will be updated as soon as we can already a nother video added
Ladies beware of our video! as your flour strainers etc will vanish without trace as mine have lol
update to our video is we found massive amounts of hydrogen trapped between the two walls of our now name d "Sinc Cell"and it shal be called thus hereafter .
so please on your top of the cell drill four 3/8 holes equidistant about 1/2 inch from top fittong this allows the hho to escape easier to surface as surprisingly enough even though its a mesh it likes to colllect unde the first wall then rocket all to the surface in one big bubble
have fun
samantha
Cool design Dallas, I was thinking of building a smacks booster for my car but I like your design more. But I was wondering how did you connect your cups to the power, meaning are only some actually connected and the others are insulated with plastic spacers or something, and what cups are grounded and what ones are power and where are the connections. Hope this makes sense.
DALLAS Im in the northeast USA alot of people here could use help with their heating bills mostly no computers on these units Liability yes so what people are freezing and it would be very possible with a little engineering and commonsence marketing [ kit form like ultralight aircraft in USA or not for profit org etc etc ] Chet
Thanks again,
Every other cup is the same polarity. Making the number of cups more one charge than the other will get you either more hydrogen or more Oxygen.
I revised the design and cut small 1/2 lengths of 316L tubing I had laying around here and used them instead of the Teflon spacers. So the entire electrode minus the washers is SS. You can see the updated 9 level monster here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yH4tKZazIQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yH4tKZazIQ)
Let me tell you, when this thing starts up, it really moves the electrolyte. It makes a vertical jet stream of bubbles and sounds like a bunch of Alka-Seltzer in a glass. Im going to do more test on it today, but just an estimate Its producing 2.5 Liters a minute from the 12v (actually 10V needs to be recharged)
It weighs about 5 pounds and is very sturdy. Im selling it and 5level TwisterHHO electrodes on my site now.
Dying to hook it up to a solar panel.
NorthEast? I grew up in Philadelphia, moved to Texas when I was 19 after illustrating two best sellers on the JFK Assassination (High Treason, and The Killing of a President) High treason was used by Oliver Stone to make the movie. So I spent a lot of time here in Dallas, and just decided to move here.
I miss the cold winters and SNOW. Man, I can smell the White Castle from here.
Anyway, home heating unit. Honestly the way this electrode is performing (still waiting for the 200a ammeter to arrive) we have estimated its efficiency in the 90% range. Unbelievable, but until the ammeter get here I can give absolute data. But just by observation Im confident in its ability.
So to answer your question yes, I would just stack say 20 in a column. The other thing Im working with is taking the volts up to 48. Ill spend some time today killing a few brain cells trying to fugure out a solution to the heating problem.
Dallas thanks figure it out ILL send you some white castle Chet PS my brother did some freelance for oliver also
Hi DallasGoldBug,
Definitely amazing!
About 2.5 liters/min (150 liters/hours) without any electronics sounds great.
Best
Awesome! I have built the watercell
device from
http://www.overunity.com/hho.htm
(coils of stainless wire on a plexi core, very low output) as well as one I made from stainless wallplates (good output, but high current draw i.e. 15amps@12VDC).
Have you measured the current draw on the device? I have seen other devices with a center negative plate, two outer positive plates and the rest are disconnected i.e. neutral. I wonder if the hydrogen production would be similar with less current draw. Also, I missed mention of what you are using for electrolyte.
hey dallas, remember the you tube video hydrogen tony? where you asked the psi rating of my cell?
well if you havent checked back on it, it is rated for 135 psi, although i only got it to 27 psi before i got bored. keep it up...
as far as the prendev video..........lame... just seems like some jackas with alot of money and no intellegence, are you guys sure its the same guy with the magnet motor???????
So I built one of Dallas vortex cells, found the cups at walmart, I built one using 7 cups and have it in my car. I'm just using distiled water right now so HHO production is low, still waiting for my koh to get here. once it gets here I'll try and do a lpm test and see how efficient it is.
Quote from: Ioku on April 18, 2008, 06:06:48 PM
So I built one of Dallas vortex cells, found the cups at walmart, I built one using 7 cups and have it in my car. I'm just using distiled water right now so HHO production is low, still waiting for my koh to get here. once it gets here I'll try and do a lpm test and see how efficient it is.
Couldn't find these cups at Walmart here in Canada, however I was able to locate them at a chain called "Superstore". These ones are pretty thin metal.
I have one installed in my vehicle, using distilled water and baking soda as electrolyte. However, it is really sucking the current - started with a 20A fuse, which it blew almost immediately. Even a 30A fuse blew fairly quick. Going to have to use a larger scale fuse, and higher current rating, or switch to a circuit breaker.
From what I have read you have to get the mix of electrolyte down enough so you don't pull so many amps, I also read that baking soda is not so good because it can cause a coating to form on the electrodes, thats why I am still waiting on the KOH, and has anyone here bought KOH from biodiesel barn I ordered some about 2 weeks ago and it is still not here.
Hey Dallas,
I contacted you on Ebay about your Cell being the best one out of all the others on Ebay and that I have done a similar setup as yours with the cups.
Anyways, my first setup didn't contain any holes and I used the lips of the cups, or as I would say "the love handles", as my positive or negative connection for each cup and then I would use zip ties for my spacers between each cup. I used Gorilla Glue to attach the Zip Ties to the inside of the cup in a triangle of 3's and by using Gorilla Glue the glue would expand to where it will create a firm wedge between the two cups holding it in place. After testing, that created a very good amount of bubbles and then I decided to make another cell with a hole in it.
So on my 2nd setup I wanted to drill a hole in the cup to allow the bubbles to have more than one way to rise and drilling that sucker was a pain in the butt. It was like Superman's chest was right at the tip of my drill bit. I used a small PVC pipe grip to hold the cup in place and then used my waist to keep the PVC pipe grip from spinning and put my whole body weight down on the cup. After doing that and adding a bilge pump to suck the bubbles out and shoot it back in the PVC canister, it looked like it was creating massive amounts of HHO.
I tested to see how many amps a 5 cup setup would draw and it took about 6-7 amps on a 12v battery and it created some crazy amounts of HHO with a little baking soda. I hope you do very well on Ebay my friend. I will probably sell my first HHO Unit soon on Ebay. Keep up the great work.
I have kind of given up on this setup - current draw is melting insulation on heavy guage wires, blowing 30A fuses.This was with 9 cups. I reduced my "cup tower" down to 6 cups, still drawing unmanageable current. Fantastic HHO output, until the fuse blows or the wires gets so hot they start smoking.
I guess its time to experiment with a more exotic electronics setup than just straight 12VDC off the battery.
Quote from: FosterVS on April 26, 2008, 10:50:47 PM
I have kind of given up on this setup - current draw is melting insulation on heavy guage wires, blowing 30A fuses.This was with 9 cups. I reduced my "cup tower" down to 6 cups, still drawing unmanageable current. Fantastic HHO output, until the fuse blows or the wires gets so hot they start smoking.
I guess its time to experiment with a more exotic electronics setup than just straight 12VDC off the battery.
Start without a catalyst and then add a small amount of baking soda or whatever the electrolyte is until you get to the desired amp draw.
Quote from: 2goodbucs on April 26, 2008, 11:02:09 PM
Start without a catalyst and then add a small amount of baking soda or whatever the electrolyte is until you get to the desired amp draw.
Good point - never thought of that. Having a hard time locating KOH here in Canada.
Something else I am thinking about - what about adding a "dryer" inline i.e. a container packed with dessicant, or a premade inline dessicant dryer made for use with air compressors? Would this not help to remove water vapor?
Dallas,
did the youtube address change?
I just noticed this thread today and the link takes me to the general page with everybody's favorites, but not this???
it sez you deleted it???
jeanna
Hi Jeanna
Looks like that video is gone or was changed. He does have 7 other videos out there though, at least I think these are his,
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dallasgoldbug&search_type=
Edit:
I think this was the one you wanted,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yH4tKZazIQ
Cheers
Steve
Quotehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yH4tKZazIQ[/color]
Steve
Thanks Steve :D 2 liters/min wow
For the peoples that look for stainless steel cup like Dallas are using, if you lived in Canada, Quebec. In the dollarshop (dollarama) they have this cup, they sell it 4 cups for 1$!!
I will use them for my cell. so 5$ and 20 cups!! :)
Just an update on my work with this cell I got some electrolyte, NaOH, and was getting some good production but it was pulling too much amps and was blowing my 30 amp fuses so I reduced the electrolyte and tried again, I got it too not blow the 30 amp fuses but gas production was low only .15 lpm and the thing got so hot after only 4 mins that it started foaming up. You got any suggestions, how long have you ran this thing for at one time cuz it seems to overheat easily.
Hi Ioku,
Welcome to the 'OU' club...
I'm, at present, testing the genuine DallasGoldBug's electrodes with various
'feeding'. DC . DC pulsed, various frequencies and various duty cycles.
IMHO, this device does not care about freq, likes DC current and is
sensitive about duty cycle. I use baking soda.. It 'sounds' very efficient.
As I have not yet finished to build the cell, I'm not still able to measure any volume gas production.
(And I should get my mouth shut :P)
Anyway : '15 lpm' ? Do you mean 15 liters per minute? = 15*60 = 900 liters/hour???
If yes, this is an huge gas production.
Best
LOL no I wish it was 15 lmp I got 0.15 lpm or in other words it took me 3.5 mins to get one half liter, do the math and you get about 0.15 lpm I'd like to see what luck you have with this cell I think next I'm going to try to make a series cell with these cups, hopefully that will lower the voltage though each cell enough too keep it from over heating.
Hi Ioku,
OK. You mean = 0.15 liter/minute. So: 0.15 *60 = 9 liters/hour.
(or 0.5l / 3.5min * 60min ) =/= 9 liters/hour?
Whit (over) heating? This sounds weak.
As I told you, I'm not still able to measure any gas production! :-\
I have just purchased this very day, the parts I was missing.
Now, I'm able to build, ASAP, the cell, the bubbler and to make some
gas production measurement.
One picture:
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffreenrg.info%2FPic%2FWaiting_For_Assembly_1_small.jpg&hash=3d7bb48a0c57eefbe6adbf070437fdc2f2abd640)
Please note that 'ASAP' does not mean 'swiftly' to me... :P
Best
NerzhDishual,
Can you please elaborate on the construction method? It is difficult to see from the photos and videos what the two pipes are made of that stick up out of the top cup. Are they tubes that thread onto the threaded rods that connect the cups together? I have just about all the parts I need to fabricate one of these twister cells, I just noticed that those two bent rods are unthreaded.
I'd ask Dallasgoldbug but he hasn't been avtive on this site for nearly a month.
Thanks in advance for any input. ;)
Frequencies?
I heared that 14.3kHZ and 43.4 khZ Pulses at 1000v hits the water. is it right?
Quote from: Gage on May 21, 2008, 10:24:24 AM
NerzhDishual,
Can you please elaborate on the construction method? It is difficult to see from the photos and videos what the two pipes are made of that stick up out of the top cup. Are they tubes that thread onto the threaded rods that connect the cups together? I have just about all the parts I need to fabricate one of these twister cells, I just noticed that those two bent rods are unthreaded.
I'd ask Dallasgoldbug but he hasn't been avtive on this site for nearly a month.
Thanks in advance for any input. ;)
Hi, if you find the pics for the construction of this, please post them,,, I found a sketch of this, but still not sure how put it up together.
I just bought my materials today, and I am waitng for construction pictures...
Hope this helps
Hi Gage, Dani1, Gchagui and everybody,
Sorry for answering late.
Sometimes, I shut down my computer for a while.
Actually, I must confess that I purchased, about a month ago, the electrodes from DallasGoldBug himself. :))
I have not dismantled them... So, here is my understanding of the DallasGoldBug setup:
There are two 'wiredrawed?' (threaded?) long stainless steel 'bolts'.
The two 'bent pipes' are of any use (gas production-wise), IMHO.
I did not remove them because they are just 'nice' (IMHO again) :)).
These 'pipes' are just 'coupled'/forced into the 'bolts'. Sorry for my English.
I made a web page with some explanations and pictures:
http://freenrg.info/Exp_With_DallasGB_Elect (http://freenrg.info/Exp_With_DallasGB_Elect)
Others pictures:
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffreenrg.info%2FExp_With_DallasGB_Elect%2FDGB_Elec2.gif&hash=29fc19a1fef7667f34a6d074ab7b063aa2d3e5c6)
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffreenrg.info%2FExp_With_DallasGB_Elect%2FDGB_Set_Up.gif&hash=0f9ad3c52e6d4b3633de7466917292002668b29d)
Best
Quote from: NerzhDishual on May 22, 2008, 06:32:51 PM
Hi Gage, Dani1, Gchagui and everybody,
Sorry for answering late.
Sometimes, I shut down my computer for a while.
Actually, I must confess that I purchased, about a month ago, the electrodes from DallasGoldBug himself. :))
I have not dismantled them... So, here is my understanding of the DallasGoldBug setup:
There are two 'wiredrawed?' (threaded?) long stainless steel 'bolts'.
The two 'bent pipes' are of any use (gas production-wise), IMHO.
I did not remove them because they are just 'nice' (IMHO again) :)).
These 'pipes' are just 'coupled'/forced into the 'bolts'. Sorry for my English.
I made a web page with some explanations and pictures:
http://freenrg.info/Exp_With_DallasGB_Elect (http://freenrg.info/Exp_With_DallasGB_Elect)
Others pictures:
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffreenrg.info%2FExp_With_DallasGB_Elect%2FDGB_Elec2.gif&hash=29fc19a1fef7667f34a6d074ab7b063aa2d3e5c6)
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffreenrg.info%2FExp_With_DallasGB_Elect%2FDGB_Set_Up.gif&hash=0f9ad3c52e6d4b3633de7466917292002668b29d)
Best
Thanks for your explanation....
Are you sure there are 3 positives and 2 negatives?
Shouldn't just the center cup be neutral?
Quote from: gchagui on May 27, 2008, 08:10:44 PM
.......................
Are you sure there are 3 positives and 2 negatives?
Shouldn't just the center cup be neutral?
No, not sure at all. It was just a guess.
Could also be 3 negatives and 2 positives. :P
As DallasGoldBug was designing this electrodes with an uneven number of 'cups'
(5 or 9) the central one could indeed be neutral!
I have noticed no visual difference when swapping the wires.
Yes, a visual observation could be misleading....
The best way is to measure the gas production.
But I'm trying to do a lot of things at once..
So, more to come soon when I regain consciousness! ;D
Best
This cell rocks! Thanks for the drawings! Where are you finding the clear tubing?
Quote from: NerzhDishual on May 28, 2008, 04:29:19 PM
No, not sure at all. It was just a guess.
Could also be 3 negatives and 2 positives. :P
As DallasGoldBug was designing this electrodes with an uneven number of 'cups'
(5 or 9) the central one could indeed be neutral!
I have noticed no visual difference when swapping the wires.
Yes, a visual observation could be misleading....
The best way is to measure the gas production.
But I'm trying to do a lot of things at once..
So, more to come soon when I regain consciousness! ;D
Best
Just try to find out with the multimeter........ try touch the cups and the bolts, I mean when the multimeter beeps!
Are the bolts marked with red or black color????
@Gchagui
Quote from: gchagui on May 29, 2008, 01:36:32 PM
Just try to find out with the multimeter........ try touch the cups and the bolts, I mean when the multimeter beeps!
Yes, very good and clever advice! I will try this (and keep you informed). :)
Quote from: gchagui on May 29, 2008, 01:36:32 PM
Are the bolts marked with red or black color????
No they were not. I just put a red tape on one the two bold as a mark.
For the moment I do not care about polarity as I cannot measure any gas.
Changing the polarities do no 'show' any difference. (visually - wise) .
However, I'm now, more advanced in my setup and I soon will be able
to give more precises informations.
This is 'open source' but not fast/swift source (and reply!). :P
Best
@Athopi
Quote from: Athopi on May 28, 2008, 08:31:55 PM
This cell rocks! Thanks for the drawings! Where are you finding the clear tubing?
I found this 100mm Outer-Diameter Acrylic Tube after a tedious Goggle reseach! :)
http://gutzwiller.set.free.fr/tubepvc.html (http://gutzwiller.set.free.fr/tubepvc.html) (in France, sorry)...
TUBE PMMA D100 E3.0
I have also purchased a 50 mm OD tube (TUBE PMMA D50 E2.0) for making a bubbler.
They are very usefull because they perfectly fit with all these plumber common parts.
Pictures to come soon.
Best
What a Great Thread , this stuff is awsome !
Depending on how the DGB holds up long term, should be a snap to at least take a bite out of the home heating bills !
Hey Dallas, heres a link to some solar chargers
http://www.batterystuff.com/battery-restoration/24-volt/IS24L.html?c1=1&c2=52&c3=94&id=IS24L
A little work and I'll bet the cup design produces 3 L/M per cell..
( My wifes pasta strainer went missin ) lol
More Negative then Positive is better, because more H is released then O, N release H and P release O
@TheOne,
Thanks for these precious informations.
Best
Quote from: TheOne on May 31, 2008, 11:54:28 AM
More Negative then Positive is better, because more H is released then O, N release H and P release O
From what I understand that the Anode releases the Hydrogen and the Cathode *edit* releases the Oxygen. Also note that this design uses the inside and outside surface areas of the cups. I've seen tube designs just use one side of the tube leaving the other surface area side to waste.
I've seen a plate design that uses zip ties to space the plates apart and I've also seen electrical tape to space the plates. If you can space the cup design using either zip ties or electrical tape (maybe liquid electrical tape?) instead of using washers and nuts for spacing then you probably have the most efficient cup design out there.
Quote from: 2goodbucs on May 31, 2008, 03:08:25 PM
From what I understand that the Anode releases the Hydrogen and the Diode releases the Oxygen. Also note that this design uses the inside and outside surface areas of the cups. I've seen tube designs just use one side of the tube leaving the other surface area side to waste.
I've seen a plate design that uses zip ties to space the plates apart and I've also seen electrical tape to space the plates. If you can space the cup design using either zip ties or electrical tape (maybe liquid electrical tape?) instead of using washers and nuts for spacing then you probably have the most efficient cup design out there.
Diode ? Cathode ? No slam intended.
Quote from: ba2ho on May 31, 2008, 03:59:24 PM
Diode ? Cathode ? No slam intended.
Ahhh yes it is. Thanks for the correction. I am just now enjoying my first cup of coffee. In a few minutes I will be typo free and typing 1000 words per minute. lol! Got the post fixed now.
Quote from: 2goodbucs on May 31, 2008, 04:04:17 PM
Ahhh yes it is. Thanks for the correction. I am just now enjoying my first cup of coffee. In a few minutes I will be typo free and typing 1000 words per minute. lol! Got the post fixed now.
LOL , No biggee , I just get confused easy,.. Just hit the dollar store and wallmart, they both had the little condement (sp) cups @ 4 for a dollar. 2.5 oz, Hope Dallas isn't running 40 A's,anyone know if thats that what Dallas is using ? I went and got some SS cups that were about 8 oz and am constructing a WFC right now, will post up how it produces..
note: couldn't find the chinese version, they had the chrome ones from india,..ended up with the bigger cups from the USA. And in the US, Bed bath and beyond has the pasta tubes for 5 bucks or 10 dollars depending on the size.
Quote from: ba2ho on May 31, 2008, 07:18:49 PM
LOL , No biggee , I just get confused easy,.. Just hit the dollar store and wallmart, they both had the little condement (sp) cups @ 4 for a dollar. 2.5 oz, Hope Dallas isn't running 40 A's,anyone know if thats that what Dallas is using ? I went and got some SS cups that were about 8 oz and am constructing a WFC right now, will post up how it produces..
note: couldn't find the chinese version, they had the chrome ones from india,..ended up with the bigger cups from the USA. And in the US, Bed bath and beyond has the pasta tubes for 5 bucks or 10 dollars depending on the size.
Dallas said on one of his videos that hes using 2.5 oz cups
Checked out his vids, looks like he's pullin a vac and boiling the water, so I'd take his 2 l/m with a grain of salt
Hello everyone. My apologies to all for being MIA, I will do my best to catch up and answer your questions.
As for the comment "taking the 2l/min with a grain of salt" its was actually more, but who's counting. Don't take my word try it yourself.
I had to remove the videos, per request from my business partner until the Twister HHO was patent pending. Ill be creating and posting new better quality videos later this week.
The new Twister HHO designs formation is able to split straight distilled H2O, no chemicals added. Ill post a video shortly.
Questions, ask away.
Again, sorry for the long absence, Ill try to not let it happen again.
DallasGoldBug ;D
No offence Dallas, sure hope none taken. That was not my intent at all. Ive seen some guys who use vac to increase production to the point of boiling off the water and thinking it was H1 or H2. If you do another vid, just light some up. Like the design a lot , congrats !
Get a Provisional patent , there quick and secure your ideas until you get a hard copy. Hope it helps and keep up the good work !
Yes, the uneven cup number is by design. Remember, cathode = Hydrogen, anode = Oxygen, so depending on your applications particular needs you can produce more or less of each gas. Ive also seen applications where people have separated the + and - in a "v" shaped cell allowing the gas to be isolated H in one half of the V and O in the other. This setup makes it safe to store the gas, and combine them only when needed. A much safer design, but doesn't produce as much HHO as does a cell with closely interwoven plate/cup configuration.
The use of neutral plates/cups:
Ive tested several variations and combinations of neutral surface material. I have not found any benefit by using them. That doesn't mean "neutral plates" in cells are not useful. They can be used to absorb the heat produced from the current, in combination with a heat sync can be very useful.
But overall IMHO, for this electrode, I haven't been able to benefit from them. Far be it for me to discourage anyone from testing it out.
DallasGoldBug ;D
Quote from: DallasGoldBug on June 02, 2008, 12:38:19 AM
Yes, the uneven cup number is by design. Remember, cathode = Hydrogen, anode = Oxygen, so depending on your applications particular needs you can produce more or less of each gas. Ive also seen applications where people have separated the + and - in a "v" shaped cell allowing the gas to be isolated H in one half of the V and O in the other. This setup makes it safe to store the gas, and combine them only when needed. A much safer design, but doesn't produce as much HHO as does a cell with closely interwoven plate/cup configuration.
The use of neutral plates/cups:
Ive tested several variations and combinations of neutral surface material. I have not found any benefit by using them. That doesn't mean "neutral plates" in cells are not useful. They can be used to absorb the heat produced from the current, in combination with a heat sync can be very useful.
But overall IMHO, for this electrode, I haven't been able to benefit from them. Far be it for me to discourage anyone from testing it out.
DallasGoldBug ;D
I wonder if that is why daniel dingle had two separate tube, coming out of his generator? one he said had o, one had h.
has anyone ever seen this posting
http://www.educate-yourself.org/fe/fewaterasfuel28jan02.shtml
just curious
peter
For the past few months I assumed that the Anode was the Hydrogen and the Cathode was the Oxygen. I had my design slightly wrong because of this. lol.
I got a hold of some 32oz. Stainless Steel cups and I just conditioned the cups last night. Hopefully it will create a whole bunch of HHO production. I'll test it later on today.
Dallas,
any thoughts when your store might be back up?
glassman
Quote from: 2goodbucs on June 02, 2008, 08:59:27 AM
For the past few months I assumed that the Anode was the Hydrogen and the Cathode was the Oxygen. I had my design slightly wrong because of this. lol.
I got a hold of some 32oz. Stainless Steel cups and I just conditioned the cups last night. Hopefully it will create a whole bunch of HHO production. I'll test it later on today.
Can someone explain the differences between making hho gas and making the two gases separately?
QuoteThe new Twister HHO designs formation is able to split straight distilled H2O, no chemicals added. Ill post a video shortly
Hi DallasGoldBug
Is the new twister using a PWM ?
Can you show measurements in the new vid or post them here ?
Thanks
pc
Quote from: 22350 on June 02, 2008, 02:03:08 PM
Can someone explain the differences between making hho gas and making the two gases separately?
I assume if your separating the gases then you are probably trying to create pure Hydrogen. I have no experience in pure Hydrogen but I know it costs more to create.
The mixture of Oxygen with Hydrogen is kind of like a catalyst of baking soda and distilled water for electrolyte. It just amplifies the gas to make it stronger.
Quote from: glassman on June 02, 2008, 01:09:17 PM
Dallas,
any thoughts when your store might be back up?
glassman
Dallas,
Yeah, whatever happened to your Ebay auctions? I don't see you offering your product on there. I bet you were getting a tremendous amount of orders and that's the reason your not on it?
Quote from: 2goodbucs on June 02, 2008, 05:07:10 PM
I assume if your separating the gases then you are probably trying to create pure Hydrogen. I have no experience in pure Hydrogen but I know it costs more to create.
The mixture of Oxygen with Hydrogen is kind of like a catalyst of baking soda and distilled water for electrolyte. It just amplifies the gas to make it stronger.
the reason i ask is because it appears that Dingel's cell was spitting the two gasses. Look at this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVlllvdmW2U
He specifically says that he is getting the gas separately.
What I don't understand is why everyone else is perusing the combined method?
Please post photos of your setup and Ill see if I can help.
LOL , No biggee , I just get confused easy,.. Just hit the dollar store and wallmart, they both had the little condement (sp) cups @ 4 for a dollar. 2.5 oz, Hope Dallas isn't running 40 A's,anyone know if thats that what Dallas is using ? I went and got some SS cups that were about 8 oz and am constructing a WFC right now, will post up how it produces..
Im running 19 cups in a water filter housing on my Dodge 2500Ram. Im putting 60 amps into it with no problems other than the electrolyte boiling after 10 minutes. Therefor Im installing a cooling coil in line today to cycle the liquid.
Start with Distilled H2o and put 1 spoon full of baking soda in this should get you about 10-15amps
if you use sodium hydroxide anything more than a half a spoon full will run your amps up to unmanageable and dangerous levels.
For a test run last week I hooked the cell up to a 200amp battery charger and used sodium hydrox, was working fine until i got a loose connection on one of the bolts. Started to sizzle and could see arching in the water. Just hit the off switch in time before it melted.
Fun while it lasted, but now im getting serious with an all stainless cell.
Store will be back up beginning of next week
Is the new twister using a PWM ?
No. I did however test with a golf cart variable motor control for a while. I wanted to have more control over the setup while we tested it on the Dodge 2500 Turbo Diesel
But for any other reason than what I mentioned, it really hasn't benefited at all using a pwm. These are just my findings, please let me know if anyone finds something to the contrary.
Can you show measurements in the new vid or post them here ?
Absolutely have a video I can post tomorrow.
Also, wanted to give a solid "Well Done!" to gchagui.
He has performed extensive testing on the electrode.
gchagui, Please let me know if I can post the URL. Thanks
DallasGoldBug
im pretty sure daniel dingle seperated his h and o because hes running 100% browns gas and
injects them seperately to controll the burn rate/rpm ... instead of all the tricky valving
im pretty sure daniel dingle seperated his h and o because hes running 100% browns gas and
injects them seperately to controll the burn rate/rpm ... instead of all the tricky valving
Hi Guys,
I have updated my main page: http://freenrg.info/Exp_With_DallasGB_Elect/ (http://freenrg.info/Exp_With_DallasGB_Elect/)
with 4 more pages and a lot of pictures.
I have not yet 'glued' my Dallas_Gold_Bug cell container.
However I'm now able to measure some gas production with my
"'poor man' gas measurement set" and other 'poor' devices . :)
More to come ASAP.
Best
yea whats up with the video
Hi NerzhDishual
Good to see your work
Hope all gos well on the PWM
have you tested with 24V ?
all the best :)
pc
Quote from: DallasGoldBug on June 04, 2008, 07:03:41 AM
Is the new twister using a PWM ?
No. I did however test with a golf cart variable motor control for a while. I wanted to have more control over the setup while we tested it on the Dodge 2500 Turbo Diesel
But for any other reason than what I mentioned, it really hasn't benefited at all using a pwm. These are just my findings, please let me know if anyone finds something to the contrary.
I may be mistaken but the PWM is to minimize the amps and boiling right? I'd be interested to know if you still get the output with a PWM as it seems like your system is pulling a lot of amps and getting really hot. Or am I missing something?
glassman
Quote from: DallasGoldBug on June 04, 2008, 07:13:15 AM
Also, wanted to give a solid "Well Done!" to gchagui.
He has performed extensive testing on the electrode.
gchagui, Please let me know if I can post the URL. Thanks
DallasGoldBug
Well... as an engineer.... curious...jejeje... I started by looking up info on doing hho ... bla bla bla... finding out DallasGoldBug twister's design was the most effective ( couple of weeks browsing through internet) so I started my own proyect.
I believe you should not waste any time searching on what is already invented, just star from there (if you know what you are doing) and keep on....... I got scared, when I saw DallasGoldBug's videos went offline.... well the ones that could actually show how this was build....
good reason ... getting the pattends.. Hope this can get you a lot of money instead of killed or dissapeared.. just kidding.
For now, I have a 125cc motorcycle, in wich my dream is to make it run only on hydrogen....
just to start, I have build a 4 cup 2.5 oz..... and it works perfect...it's kind of small, just for the motorcycle.I will get hydrogen through the air intake.... I will improve it, make it stable,,, and voila....... I WILL POST, ( I just hope I just won't dissapear) trust me on this, I will make this happen.... and as I said before... I don't need to waste time on whatever somebody else has... so.... if you have any concrete ideas... post....
Let's make this dream come true
Thanks to everybody
Quote from: dani1 on May 21, 2008, 10:35:09 AM
Frequencies?
I heared that 14.3kHZ and 43.4 khZ Pulses at 1000v hits the water. is it right?
http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/ElectrolyseAC.pdf
@Powercat
I momentally gave up PWM. I did not manage to get interesting results while freq. tuning
these Dave Lawton circuits.
Actually, all the devices I have tested (including a Meyer 'like'
Saintless Steel concentric tubes) seem not to care about the frequency
of the pulsed wave but only about the duty cycle of the said waves.
This duty cycle tuning can, however, be of any help to adjust the gas production.
The more the cycle is on the more production.
I should definitely have missed something about frequencies. :P
Perhaps, I'm not using the right transistor this BUZ350 ???
I have ordered (and received) these things and will test them.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Yes I have tried 24 volts and also 36 volts. Guess what (watt!) :)
V= R* I so I = V/R as 'R' does not vary with the voltage (it could have),
I just got a linear increase in the amperage consumption and in (the visual)
gas production, of course.
I have also started to make some gas production measurements with my
"poor man" gas measurement set. Please check:
http://freenrg.info/Exp_With_DallasGB_Elect/Other_Devices_Measurements.html (http://freenrg.info/Exp_With_DallasGB_Elect/Other_Devices_Measurements.html)
So, more to come ASAP.
Best
I would love to use a PWM in my system. Anyone know any good sites where they sell good quality PWM's? I know you can use less amps for the same amount of hydrogen being produced by using a PWM.
Quote from: gchagui on June 05, 2008, 04:00:05 AM
Well... as an engineer.... curious...jejeje... I started by looking up info on doing hho ... bla bla bla... finding out DallasGoldBug twister's design was the most effective ( couple of weeks browsing through internet) so I started my own proyect.
I believe you should not waste any time searching on what is already invented, just star from there (if you know what you are doing) and keep on....... I got scared, when I saw DallasGoldBug's videos went offline.... well the ones that could actually show how this was build....
good reason ... getting the pattends.. Hope this can get you a lot of money instead of killed or dissapeared.. just kidding.
For now, I have a 125cc motorcycle, in wich my dream is to make it run only on hydrogen....
just to start, I have build a 4 cup 2.5 oz..... and it works perfect...it's kind of small, just for the motorcycle.I will get hydrogen through the air intake.... I will improve it, make it stable,,, and voila....... I WILL POST, ( I just hope I just won't dissapear) trust me on this, I will make this happen.... and as I said before... I don't need to waste time on whatever somebody else has... so.... if you have any concrete ideas... post....
Let's make this dream come true
Thanks to everybody
Working on almost the same project. Getting a 125cc engine to fire.
On the Dallas gold bug design, what shapes have people been using? I see a couple of different cup shapes. These shapes vary from rounded cups to cone type shapes. What are you guys doing on shapes?
I really like this design. It just makes a lot of sense to me:
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pauloberman.com%2Fcoil.jpg&hash=bb2163ee5184532defca36c92c63196c0ee1e851)
What do you guys know about this company?
http://www.fuelfromh2o.com/customers.html
Quote from: 2goodbucs on June 06, 2008, 09:43:02 PM
I would love to use a PWM in my system. Anyone know any good sites where they sell good quality PWM's? I know you can use less amps for the same amount of hydrogen being produced by using a PWM.
http://pwmpower.com/ (http://pwmpower.com/) is selling PWM systems.
Their prices are not really low, IMO.... :-X
Best
@NerzhDishual
PWM
Maybe more amplifying can help on the cell
24V
i got good gas production as well
Iam now testing with stainless steel small camping mug (high-quality SS ) cut top off and got too cups in one whit 3mm gap.
Good gas production(visual) at12V 3 amps
pc
Regarding making that 125cc run on HHO... I've been trying to think of a way to do the same with a 10 horse Johnson outboard... But since it is 2-cycle, can't think of a good way to inject oil in there.
I'm worried that without the 2 cycle oil, it will burn up fairly quickly. Havn't seen anything on the 'web yet about running 2 cycles on HHO, except a vid of guy running a dirt bike on it; but it didn't address the oil problem. Anyone see anything on running 2-cycles? Some bikes have oil resevoirs, which would be OK but most and outboards do not ;(
Quote from: jibbguy on June 07, 2008, 12:12:32 PM
Regarding making that 125cc run on HHO... I've been trying to think of a way to do the same with a 10 horse Johnson outboard... But since it is 2-cycle, can't think of a good way to inject oil in there.
I'm worried that without the 2 cycle oil, it will burn up fairly quickly. Havn't seen anything on the 'web yet about running 2 cycles on HHO, except a vid of guy running a dirt bike on it; but it didn't address the oil problem. Anyone see anything on running 2-cycles? Some bikes have oil resevoirs, which would be OK but most and outboards do not ;(
What you have to take into consideration with 2-strokes is that they lubricate everything from the main bearings up, with the oil.
2-strokes won't work
Quote from: NerzhDishual on May 22, 2008, 06:32:51 PM
Hi Gage, Dani1, Gchagui and everybody,
Sorry for answering late.
Sometimes, I shut down my computer for a while.
Actually, I must confess that I purchased, about a month ago, the electrodes from DallasGoldBug himself. :))
I have not dismantled them... So, here is my understanding of the DallasGoldBug setup:
There are two 'wiredrawed?' (threaded?) long stainless steel 'bolts'.
The two 'bent pipes' are of any use (gas production-wise), IMHO.
I did not remove them because they are just 'nice' (IMHO again) :)).
These 'pipes' are just 'coupled'/forced into the 'bolts'. Sorry for my English.
I made a web page with some explanations and pictures:
http://freenrg.info/Exp_With_DallasGB_Elect (http://freenrg.info/Exp_With_DallasGB_Elect)
Others pictures:
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffreenrg.info%2FExp_With_DallasGB_Elect%2FDGB_Elec2.gif&hash=29fc19a1fef7667f34a6d074ab7b063aa2d3e5c6)
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffreenrg.info%2FExp_With_DallasGB_Elect%2FDGB_Set_Up.gif&hash=0f9ad3c52e6d4b3633de7466917292002668b29d)
Best
I am thinking ... in this design the natural vortex that could be generated by the stacked cups is being dis-engineered by having the electrodes in the middle. A more natural design seems to be if the electrodes are on a side and in the middle of the cups there is only one hole, with the steel around the hole little lifted in the direction of the cup above it. There also could be other designs with more cup holes in the middle in a different patterns. It seems that these type of designs will create a natural vortex effect. Not sure how it will be more efficient but it "feels natural" and in sync with the ideas of Viktor Schauberger.
Again this is only an idea ...
Very good and interesting work guys :)
SAS
Yes, your heading in the right direction.
the vertical placement of the cups is only part of several design aspects that create a natural flow thus more efficient production.
The slight role/lip at the top of the cup acts to draft the bubbles back toward the above cup helping to knock off the bubbles. This also creates a cycling of the electrolyte that helps to keep the them down.
The placement of the connection rods close to one another also utilizes their surface as part of the gas production area.
The symmetrical shape of the cups creates a more tuned environment for the natural movement of the electrons outward from the center of origin. The best way to visualize this effect is to look at a ripple in a pond that move outward equally from the center of origin (from say a stone thrown in) this outward ripple is also seen in sound technology. A speaker cannot create a true sound if its not round 6X9 cannot. a studio speaker say the most common Yamaha NS10 for example are round and create perfect true sound. The same goes for the path of the electron and shapes that have corners and thickness changes are areas create areas of less gas production/ and or heat due to resistance.
DallasGoldBug
So, then DallasGB,
do you think it might work better if the cups increased in diameter the way a joe cell does? maybe by combining your excellent idea with joe's will make the difference?
So many ideas... so little time!!!
jeanna
Hi DallasGoldBug,
Thanks a lot for your precisions.
I have not yet measured any gas production with your electrodes.:(
I'm now playing with my Davey's devices.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@Epwpixieq-1
I do agree with you about Viktor Schauberger.
Nature was his teacher...
And the DallasGoldBug electrodes look like some flowers.
This is not a scientific statement... :P
I have just made a web page about Davey Versus DallasGoldBug (should I dare!).
http://freenrg.info/Exp_With_DallasGB_Elect/Davey_Versus_DallasGoldBug.html (http://freenrg.info/Exp_With_DallasGB_Elect/Davey_Versus_DallasGoldBug.html)
Best
Quote from: DallasGoldBug on June 07, 2008, 03:47:26 PM
The same goes for the path of the electron and shapes that have corners and thickness changes are areas create areas of less gas production/ and or heat due to resistance.
Have you been able to test the electrode for long periods of time? What kind of temperatures are you seeing after what periods of time.
Very nice work NerzhDishual
Yes, I believe the shape plays a large part. The graduating outward slant and the rolled lip are important as well.
I noticed you tried the other electrode upside down. I tried that with my electrode and even with holes drilled in the cups to allow the gas to excape it still trapped a large amount of gas.
Im going to test the electrode with higher voltages this week and will post the videos when they are ready.
DallasGoldBug
DallasGoldBug,
Any updates?
Yes, the new cell is going into production this week. should be wrapped up shortly and ready for sale.
On a side note:
This request goes out to all HONEST HHO researchers. I have been quite open with my work allowing people to get inside and see how it operates, along with making myself available for those needing assistance, to answer their questions. Unfortunately there has been a person who now has turned into a thief, his lack of integrity threatens all researchers who share their work to others for them to try and better the HHO research field. Happyhydrogen.com is selling the cell I designed and that is PATENT PENDING, the lawyer will make quick work of him. But thats not the point, I'm asking everyone to give him a good slap for me. If people like this, continue to steal others work, sooner or later researchers will not contribute to sites like this. If that happens you will see the effects as those who create will have to take extra steps to protect their work and this will delay advances in the field.
I put my work out there for anyone to build a cell for their own research. But it is not intended for those to start up a business selling copycats.
Please ban him from your sites his name is johnevans27
Thanks
Dallasgoldbug
Hello.
I am the guy that dallasgoldbug was mentioning as a fraud.
I posted something about my car on craigslist about trying out a fuel cell out on my car. I am a hho enthusiast like some of you I'm sure. So dallas 'mistakenly' thought my name was john, called me a fraud, and immediately threatened me with lawyers his first contact.
Some things to note here:
Patent number - Dallasgoldbug could not provide it
Patent status - Dallasgoldbug - Is it Provisional? (you know it takes 2-4 years to patent this stuff)
Also, he didn't even define 'why' his lawyers were going to call me. He didn't even refrence the cell.
Dallasgoldbug must have a patent on using cups in fuel cells. I have a patent on cutting steaks in squares.
So, with no patent number provided, and no definition of a patent status he threatens people. Good luck to those of you that attempt to learn from this man. Just remember that he has a patent on stainless steel, cups, electricity, and baking soda and water...and he has a lawyer.
I would rather not have to do this, but I am simply a broker of cells, and don't feel the need to be publicly smeared across the internet by a person that cannot provide base information while threatening people with laywers. To infringe on a patent...there must be a definition of a patent in which to violate. I think those are the rules.
Second note: If you search for "cyclone" on ebay you will find a concentric cup cell that seems pretty decently constructed. I think they ripped off dallasgoldbug, but they are not suffering from any patent infringing lawsuits either. I contacted her today to check up and make sure. When people immediately threaten you, the notion to check with all people working with you comes to mind.
1. Dallasgoldbug has no website
2. Dallasgoldbug has no ebay products
3. Dallasgoldbug has no product to show or sell
But, Dallasgoldbug will smear your name across the web in discussion boards.
Newsflash - A shitty 40 dollar SS welding coil pair and a tupperware container can be a fuel cell. I saw one made out of a sock and a lint trap. I make my own for fun out of spatulas and chopsticks. No patent number. No patent. No enforcement of said patent.
Using a cup vs a plate is not the next coming of christ. Come to my site to see 'other' peoples cells that 'allow' me to post on my site.
We can all call each other frauds and have our lawyers talk to each other, becuase that is of course what overunity is all about....laywers and greed. right? ;D
I try the cup cell one year ago because that was the only thing I can find for a cell, that mean I made it before him? so that mean he cannot patent it?
Patent is stupid and a waste of time
I patented the sun. I also patented the phrase 'getting wood'. I'll send the paypal link if you want to pay royalties to me. I also patented drinking with your pinky out...I know it's kind of gay, but that royalty check is what keeps me going. I love money. I hate creativity. I hate competition too. But I do like lawyers. Did I mention I had a patent on them too?
I agree I mean what there to even patent, the use of cups, I'll give him credit that this is a cool design but the only thing different from other cells is the cups its still just electrodes in a plastic container built with off the shelf parts its not like he specially fabricated the cups. So cool design but if I want to build a few of these and sell them on ebay then I don't see why I can't.
what is a cup? i mean come on!! what is a plate? what is a box? these are are infinite in their variations.
let's all have a lawyer circle jerk
p
I have to side with Dallas on this one.
He has been very open to everyone about his design. He hasn't minded sharing his results and design and has been very open to helping people replicate his results. But if everyone ripping people off from the getgo, where the developer is open and shares, you are going to force people into a state where they don't want to share anymore. The information Dallas is sharing here is important to share in forums like this because it helps to eliminate the chance that these technologies will dissappear. But they will also disappear if we scare the innovators into a code of silence and they take the info to their graves. It's not like he is asking all of you to not make one yourself. He is only asking you to not steal his design to make a quick buck off of it. Just because the concept is easily replicatable doesn't mean you aren't ripping the guy off. You know you are ripping off his design.
I'm all for open source, but lets not force the innovators into hidding information either.
glassman
Kinda makes me hesitant to share my newest plate/cell set-up...
me too.... and my new design will shake the foundations of heaven. or it won't work.
looks like a bad point in time to ask for info. just joined the forum myself and have become very interested in hydrogen production for home use. (my home, my use)
I do find it very puzzling how we ask for the right to own a technology from a government that will not give you the right to prosper from it.... how long has this "free energy" concept been around? How many inventers can you name that prospered and became rich? how many can you name that went silent or just went away?
the only way this concept will spread around the world is through places like this, not e-bay. They can stop you from selling stuff but they can't stop the spread of information. The world will know who did what, or who invented what gizmo. and for the one that builds a system that everyone can duplicate and shares that with all, well, that name will forever be spoken throughout history.
I believe that in our lifetime, no one will not see such profits ($) from this idea, well, not as long as oil exists. the best thing that can happen is for every one to keep experimenting until in the end everyone is working on the same devise, same configuration, same results... perfection. Everyone will know where it came from.
I think that there is a nice balance that can happen if we are show some respect to developers. I don't know if anyone will get rich on any of these ideas. But maybe a developer could make enough to leave his day job and devote more time to development. But if other people take their developments and don't let those developers profit a little from their ideas, then they won't have the time and funds needed to continue developing and testing.
It's not so much about getting rich as much as it is about helping the developments to keep moving forward. And it takes money to do that.
glassman
Bull....!!! Not everyone has a shop set-up to make these. People living in apts., those who are mechanically disinclined, and people not interested in spending their time making one will need to have a source to buy one or six. Nothing wrong with a guy getting his dues if he's got a nifty spin on it and keeps it honest.
I'm also concerned with people not delivering what they say and giving the whole "industry" a bad rep. Outrageous, unsupported claims, poor communications and long delivery times will kill word-of-mouth business
I, and as I'm sure many of you, am really rather unimpressed with most of whats on Ebay. It's a good bit of the reason I'm trying to build something better. Something I'd like to buy for my car. Serious experimenting in this field can quickly cost you some big bucks. I don't begrudge anyone capitalising on the opportunity to cash in for their insight and hard work. But, I do hope, that someone is me!
Quote from: glassman on June 16, 2008, 10:41:38 PM
I have to side with Dallas on this one.
He has been very open to everyone about his design. He hasn't minded sharing his results and design and has been very open to helping people replicate his results. But if everyone ripping people off from the getgo, where the developer is open and shares, you are going to force people into a state where they don't want to share anymore. The information Dallas is sharing here is important to share in forums like this because it helps to eliminate the chance that these technologies will dissappear. But they will also disappear if we scare the innovators into a code of silence and they take the info to their graves. It's not like he is asking all of you to not make one yourself. He is only asking you to not steal his design to make a quick buck off of it. Just because the concept is easily replicatable doesn't mean you aren't ripping the guy off. You know you are ripping off his design.
I'm all for open source, but lets not force the innovators into hidding information either.
glassman
The government planned on closing the patent office in the early 1900's becuase everything that could have been invented...has been invented.
Information is great, action is better...Cash is king.
Let's think about patents for a second:
1. Two people come to the table with the same idea.
2. One person has more cash and lawyers
3. The probable inventor loses.
You might as well make your shit fast, make it cheap (within reason), and flood the shit out of the market. Consumerism is the past-time of the majority of Americans, and their consumerism is the definition of their acceptance. The person that sells the shit / widget / item...that is the person that is remembered...Most likely becuase he was able to dumb it down and aleviate fear and tame the mob. I don't give a shit who wins the race to a sustainable economy. I just want to be in it. If you think that inventors feel like they are being threatened...think of a random human on the street who talks to everyone he sees about this stuff trying to educate people, and of course sell them cells and get this movement moving...but someone is threatening that person with fraudelent claims of patent ripoff when one doesn't even exist...or wasn't provided in the complaint anyways.
What is the difference between the seller being harrassed and the inventor being copied? Neither of them knew the other person existed. Think about that. If a bear shits in the woods, does my mom smell it at home? Besides, it's not the point. The point is massive / broad acceptance of this technology, and proper safety and methods to apply it for consumer needs. The quicker that this technology permeates every corner till the point of even 'silent' acceptance that it works...then we aren't doing shit. So god bless the salesman, becuase though the inventor prints papers and fiddles in the lab...the salesperson is the one that gets called a 'warlock' and gets put the fire...becuase he is the face of the item.
And of course, Ideas are great, but they don't put food on your plate. ;D
Quote from: rbr_dc on June 17, 2008, 03:12:46 PM
looks like a bad point in time to ask for info. just joined the forum myself and have become very interested in hydrogen production for home use. (my home, my use)
I do find it very puzzling how we ask for the right to own a technology from a government that will not give you the right to prosper from it.... how long has this "free energy" concept been around? How many inventers can you name that prospered and became rich? how many can you name that went silent or just went away?
the only way this concept will spread around the world is through places like this, not e-bay. They can stop you from selling stuff but they can't stop the spread of information. The world will know who did what, or who invented what gizmo. and for the one that builds a system that everyone can duplicate and shares that with all, well, that name will forever be spoken throughout history.
I believe that in our lifetime, no one will not see such profits ($) from this idea, well, not as long as oil exists. the best thing that can happen is for every one to keep experimenting until in the end everyone is working on the same devise, same configuration, same results... perfection. Everyone will know where it came from.
I would always ask. Even when people have disagreements, it doesn't mean that they are trying to 'simply make a buck'...it might mean someone that is willing to devote himself and his own time to start to move these into people's hands. I will settle for a 5amp cell that I could change out for a fuel cell that has to be powered by multiple alternators. I do think it is cool when people pimp their cars, and they have to add like 4 alternators to power their stereos. Considering that there are 140amps per alt. on some of the good ones today. What if one day that these cells could be used to power steam engines. I mean, really. The only thing that this cell is good for is boiling the shit out of water with a quickness. Yes it boils that shit so fast that it defys the laws of physics and creates a gas that acts like a fucking star trek universal translator to burn temperatures. I figure that something with the power to melt tungsten at 6000 that if we don't find a physical use for this that I would have to consider civizilation retarded, and find a bunny ranch to hide out at. I have seen videos on the internet that talked about egyptians having electricity during their civilization, and then showed a working replica that made power the same way. If you think to yourself...why were the 7 great wonders of the world in existance before me? I think that alot...But I think that I am alive for the civilization created by the 8th great wonder of the world...transmutation...not like ninja turtles, like
Water>HHO>Steam>Heat/Pressure/Combustion/Water - Can't only the gods do this? We can seperate molecules with some shitty stainless steel plates that you can get at your local drugmart when you buy two spatulas and a bucket with some water and baking soda.
I gotta tell you. Being the god of your own world, and deciding where you go in this world is the best damn feeling. Today I can change something, and I should because it is the right thing to do. Please feel free to share. We all have talents to share. Inside this board and in the outside world.
I simply say this. When you see the look on someone's eyes that finally gets it, it makes you happy to be able to help someone in this selfish ass world. I would rather devote this extra time I have to this than video games, and the latest ninja gaiden looked like the shit. I had a shitty cheese job, and would rather sell fuel cells at a flea market. It is fun to be part of this, and I encourage you to contribute in any way possible. Anyone can put an idea together in their head. But you have to have a fuel cell blow up next to your face to really be there. That shit is fun. I didn't sell that cell when I pitched it. But, I did get the 'use it on a steam engine concept'...a modern steam engine. Which instead of a cell was the best information i could think of. It does make the most sense that the motor with the torque to carry a railroad should be a good enough design for a modern car...If you can pull the water into gas, then you should be able to capture the two on the opposing higher plates...maybe with 2 different Power frequencies...Yeah, that is it.
So here is my idea. Tell me what you think:
A fuel cell that simultaneously creates gas and electricity by converting the same gas to a power current. I very much understand now when stanley meyers talked about it when explaining to the military how they could power jets with 12kw + the hydrogen being produced. That kind of power can again be available. So the trick is not...how to burn hho (but that shit is fun). It is how to convert the + and the - home..as happy gilmore said 'go HOME'. So that is what we should be discussing. Not...Just cells. How about lets see what we can get powered.
I just wanted to let you know that I am a scam artist, and plan to steal your idea....that's all. It's what I do. What can I say? Do you know that advertisers snoop around in teen chat rooms and monitor conversations to make a profit. They are stealing your kids ideas...So get your shit going now, before your kid invents it. So, all I am trying to say is...let's sell this shit and get on with it. If it is not theoretical it is logical. Does anyone here feel like a Knight Templar, like he knew something that made them powerful. I think I know what it was. The knowledge to change.
Quote from: Athopi on June 17, 2008, 03:55:13 PM
Bull....!!! Not everyone has a shop set-up to make these. People living in apts., those who are mechanically disinclined, and people not interested in spending their time making one will need to have a source to buy one or six. Nothing wrong with a guy getting his dues if he's got a nifty spin on it and keeps it honest.
I'm also concerned with people not delivering what they say and giving the whole "industry" a bad rep. Outrageous, unsupported claims, poor communications and long delivery times will kill word-of-mouth business
I, and as I'm sure many of you, am really rather unimpressed with most of whats on Ebay. It's a good bit of the reason I'm trying to build something better. Something I'd like to buy for my car. Serious experimenting in this field can quickly cost you some big bucks. I don't begrudge anyone capitalising on the opportunity to cash in for their insight and hard work. But, I do hope, that someone is me!
Here's to you winning! That will meant that someone would have gotten this shit over with. The quest for a 'perfect' cell is like the quest of the neverending constipation shit that you just can't shit out. It's all shit. Theses cells will be going through more upgrades than windows, which isn't a lot...considering all the shit that is still wrong with it. So we got some variations to work out. If you have a decent cell, let me put it on my site (same as the name). For every inventor...there is a promoter. I would like to be the Don King of fuel cells. Minus the lightning bolt afro. Mike Tyson bit a mans ear off. I wish I was that tough. Anyways I get some people at flea markets that swarm me when the see me lighting water bubbles on fire. If you want people to belive this technology. You have to shot it to them. Kind of like an on call doctor. The job is more of a service contract job that would involve monthly fees to upgrade the products and keep it up and running. The real person that will make the most money is the first purely mpg mechanic shop. I mean literally the title 'purely mpg' would stand out prety good. I took happyhydrogen, but there is a brand you might be able to use. It's got a clean tone to it. So, anyways...here's to making a quick buck!
all i gotta say is ill drink to both sides.......cheers 8)
I think I'll start a shop offering "mpg service" only. I think I'll call it HappyHydrogen...Of course, I won't be able to stay in business very long 'cause I won't have researched, and learned enough to offer good solutions to the customers- I'll only be a monkey copying someone else's idea and hard work without even a nod to them.
Quote from: Athopi on June 17, 2008, 10:41:51 PM
I think I'll start a shop offering "mpg service" only. I think I'll call it HappyHydrogen...Of course, I won't be able to stay in business very long 'cause I won't have researched, and learned enough to offer good solutions to the customers- I'll only be a monkey copying someone else's idea and hard work without even a nod to them.
You stating your perception of the depth of my research without even a question to me in regards to my knowledge is unfair, and your 'monkey' copying comment is inappropriate. To create is divine...to copy is human. If you can't grasp the simple fundamentals of human behavior, and that angers you...just remember that you are not alone in that regard. I question the human behavior of hoarding information, and the human behavior of ownership. It's a strange bitter comment coming from someone using a name used in Buddist Chants (which I think promote balance). I could be wrong though. So, let's bypass the constant bickering and get to business. If you people have the ideas, and you are intelligent enough to define something solid....let's start moving this stuff. You provide proper instructions, and lets build some trust in the movement of this technology into the outer world...outside of internet videos and chat rooms. Or is it that people making comments with this tone on this board lack the perception to:
1. Take an idea
2. Create an item
3. Get it to people
Don't fault be for being a snake oil salesman. I'm just pitching snake oil that works. The people here are not the only people that can create and perfect a cell. And of course, what better enviornment then in the actual place it belongs...in a engine or in use with an engine vs. pictures and diagrams. Someone earlier said that they didn't want the information to die out, and that ebay was not a suitable means (becuase they could stop people from selling it). What would be the difference if they removed topics with hho from boards? Then where is the information or the product. This is a 3 part deal:
1. Information gathering
2. Cell building / testing
3. Installation / Customer Service
If you think that it is not...then you have a surreal perception that defys the laws of business. Business is the manner in which this technology permeates the masses. Your idea without an actual physical item propogating to the masses is meaningless. I know that even the term 'sales' has a high scum level glued to it...but why does it have to. If I spend hours with a client doing tests with them, drive them around in my car with the spec sheet on it defining original miles...and then they see the real milage...calculated out in front of them...then what exactly is the premise for being a monkey who does not grasp this concept? I am not an electrical engineer, I am a tech support guy and a presenter and a tier 1 tech support person. Those are my skillsets. I simply use what I have to succeed. I assume you do no less, and hope the best for your research.
I grasp this: Proper amperage to the cell and the proper amount of electrolyte in the water create a sustainable (anywhere from 3-10 hrs) of hho production before overheating. Some people want more juice, so they might need a cooler. Wow! This technology is so ungodly complex that I can't believe anyone here got it. I mean this is real einstein shit, right? So my spatula cell isn't cool enough? I'm going to patent that. The spatula cell...yeah. Then I won't let other people sell that, and that will make this movement go even faster. I sell cells. I get them installed. If that is a job of a greesebal salesman / monkey...so be it. I will continue to be the most decent greeseball salesperson that I can, who is compasionate to people trying to grasp the fundamentals of this technology, and recieve the benefits of it. All the research in the world is shit if it is not used. Let's simply use it, and use it properly. Do you think I don't know how to measure amperage, or install a pwm circuit on a cell to keep the boil down. Try to ask someone a question to assess their knowledge...rather than purport that you are the definer of people's intelligence. That would be more in line with knowledge gathering.
Quote from: Athopi on June 17, 2008, 03:55:13 PM
Bull....!!! Not everyone has a shop set-up to make these. People living in apts., those who are mechanically disinclined, and people not interested in spending their time making one will need to have a source to buy one or six. Nothing wrong with a guy getting his dues if he's got a nifty spin on it and keeps it honest.
I'm also concerned with people not delivering what they say and giving the whole "industry" a bad rep. Outrageous, unsupported claims, poor communications and long delivery times will kill word-of-mouth business
I, and as I'm sure many of you, am really rather unimpressed with most of whats on Ebay. It's a good bit of the reason I'm trying to build something better. Something I'd like to buy for my car. Serious experimenting in this field can quickly cost you some big bucks. I don't begrudge anyone capitalising on the opportunity to cash in for their insight and hard work. But, I do hope, that someone is me!
I do understand what you are saying. My thoughts in regards to this technology are:
1. How do you recreate the 'capture' of the +/- like Stan Meyers did, so that electricity could be simultaneously generated while hho production is going.
2. What is the purpose of combining this with a gas engine, when the possiblity of a modern steam engine exists that would provide the torque needed to pull multiple alternators, or combined use with thermo-electric modules could allow for the use of all energy involved (Gas / Heat / Steam).
These are the byproducts of the process, and the existance of free floating electrons and protons that could be re-collected is the real goal here. If what is trying to be done is the 'full cycle system' that is great. I would think that some money would be needed for test equiment to create the scenarios involved for the 3 listed above. If I could eat a dozen apples and shit a fruit salad I would. But until then...I need cash. Please try to realize the fine balance between ideas and cash / materials to create them. I think you do. You just don't want schmucks smearing the beauty of this in the name of cash. It is possible to make money and not be scum. That is I think as good a goal as any other. When you ask a musician about feeling bad about making money while simply playing music, the are torn. Should I actually get paid to do something I like to do...as opposed to working a shitty cheese job? I think I like doing what I want to do, and living off of that. I think that is a good goal to strive for. So let's get to it.
You have to admit going to the point of calling it Cyclone (per my Twister) and using the same descriptions in the videos and mine, is going to far. I'm not a greedy person, not the least bit money hungry. The patent protection process is mainly to protect my work from a big corporation snuffing me out without having any way to defend my work. Great hand me a billion dollars, and that money will probably go right back to fund more alternative fuel research, not to a Ferrari. Well maybe a BIG TRUCK jacked up..oh sorry. back to the point. Hell if he had called me and worked out a deal to license the electrode it would have been fine (remember I'm not greedy) but to lurk in the shadows hiding until caught just got me fired up.
Anyway, I appreciate your actions, as I said in the personal email to you.
Now back to the mission:
Question, I'm seeing research on using DEMINERALIZED h2o in the cell instead of distilled. This off the top of my head seems like a better way to go, since the metals/minerals are harmful to the electrode and will cause all the funk in the cell we get from time to time.
I decided to use up a few more brain cells on this alternative. Ive previously mentioned about observing the electrode while activated with thermal and magnetic imaging equipment. Thermal, to expose hot spots, poor connections, and poor production areas. Magnetic to uncover the effects of hardening (if you drill holes, or use HHO to connect your plates, you will have some form of hardening at the edges) hardening, for those unfamiliar with this term, is a physical change that occurs when you heat stainless to very high temperatures. It is easily experienced when you are drilling and you see the edge of the stainless start to glow. At that point two things occur the stainless becomes molecurly changed/ sometimes gaining magnetic qualities, (after drilling notice the shrapnel clinging to the bit) and secondly, your drill bit is probably ruined (unless you resharpen it) There are tips to working with stainless speed, pressure, cutting fluid, etc that are discussed in other areas.
So what does this all mean, you ask? The hardening and/or magnetic qualities will now effect the way the electrons pass through that area, usually causing undesirable resistance (=heat). BUT, this magnetic field combined by the magnetic field produced by the current flow, unless viewed with MRI equipment can create feedback/eddy flows/electron choking/ and a host of other invisible effects.
For those using PWMs your probably familiar with some of these effects since you are pulsing the current to either conserve power consumption, or maybe trying to hit the "Meyers Frequency Sweetspot" and crack the h2o with ease.
My question then becomes, by using DEMINERALIZED h2o, does this get around some of the hurdles with PWMs making it easier to manipulate the electrolyte? Does it also mean that if we use other types of stainless (more magnetic grade, or use PMG material) will we enable the production to increase without degrading/reverse electroplating the electrode to its early grave?
DallasGoldBug :)
I saw something at my office that has always interested me. It's called living water. There's some magnet in a tank and then you put your jug of water immersed in water...and there looks to be an electro-magnet in the base of it, and the cylinder has a plug coming out of it to ac. I think this is strange. Is it possible to electrically / magnetically soften the water before it is introduced into the cell. I don't mean on a mineral level. I mean on a hydrogen or oxcygen activation level. Can you excite water molecules with ac and magenetism? If this is the case, and it does work...what does that water's new state mean in a cell? This could be a catalyst, or water state issue as much as a SS plate issue..all three play themselves out as you succintly put it. I wish i had a thermal imaging device. That would be the shit!
I'm going to snag some water out of the jug after it runs on it for a day and put it in my cell 'the ss and alloy cell'.
Dallas, thanks for the response. I feel like I am part of things again. When I initially got started about 9 months ago I had to sift through the discussion boards seeing animated gifs showing a bullshit meter, and it is great to get past that and to get to testing. I have a mechanic that is going to test out the cell with my car and his, and whatever we find out we will let you know. Sorry about the misunderstanding. I really never knew that you had all this stuff. My word sticks from our initial email. The second you got something concrete with agreements and all the good stuff I'll help in any way I can to move it off the shelf. Thanks for getting to business. Sorry for being immature...but I am..It's fun sometimes.
No prob.
The device you describe sounds interesting, ill do some digging myself. But you mentioned "snag it our of the jug" is it a delivered jug or one thats connected to the buildings water main? If its delivered, a problem you may run into is if the original water bottled is not pure, especially if it contained biological contaminants, then the water quality will continue to degrade regardless of the storage container or conditions. Even if the water itself is pure, a plastic container may leak chemicals such as phthalates, or Bisphenol A into the bottled water. Many bottled water companies also add sulfites to their water in order to enhance the flavor, claiming that the water tastes fresher. If its tap water it may contain various types of natural but relatively harmless to drink but will rip your electrode apart from the inside out. Contaminants such as scaling agents like calcium carbonate in hard water and metal ions such as magnesium and iron, and odoriferous gases such as hydrogen sulfide just to name a few.
Taken from web site http://www.csicop.org/si/9801/powell.html (http://www.csicop.org/si/9801/powell.html)
Magnetic Water and Fuel Treatment: Myth, Magic, or Mainstream Science? by Mike R. Powell
Magnetic treatment has been claimed to soften water and improve the combustibility of fuels. A literature review reveals that these claims are not well supported by data.
Note that only the "effective" or "subjective" hardness is claimed to be reduced through magnetic treatment. No magnesium or calcium is removed from the water by magnetic treatment. Instead, the claim is that the magnetic field decreases the tendency of the dissolved minerals to form scale. Even though the dissolved mineral concentration indicates the water is still hard, magnetically treated water supposedly behaves like soft water.
DallasGoldBug
Interesting Info
FYI
I pulled it from DTIC's website
Accession Number : ADA171214
Title : Effect of Hydrogen on the Mechnical Properties and Fracture Behavior of High Purity Aluminum.
Descriptive Note : Technical rept.,
Corporate Author : ILLINOIS UNIV AT URBANA DEPT OF MATERIALS SCIENCE AND ENGINEERING
Personal Author(s) : Zeides, Felix ; Birnbaum, Howard K.
Report Date : JUL 1986
Pagination or Media Count : 131
Abstract : In this study of hydrogen effects on 99.999% pure aluminum, hydrogen was introduced by a corrosion process. Two corrosive media were used; deionized pure water was used for dynamic hydrogen charging during mechanical tests and an alkaline solution for hydrogen precharging. Hydrogen was found to change the response of the material to plastic deformation causing softening and plastic deformation localization on the macroscale and slip line coarsening as well as an increase in their waviness on the microscale. Hydrogen did not cause an earlier onset of the macroscopic plastic instability, i.e. necking. Hydrogen modified the fracture mode from a totally ductile, chisel point type to a more brittle transgranular or intergranular fracture. Fracture started only after onset of necking. The hydrogen induced fracture modification is believed to result from the plastic deformation modification and from the effect of hydrogen on microvoid nucleation. Some fracture surfaces were covered with a film that was occasionally fragmented by a network of cracks which is believed to be a post fracture effect caused by adhesive wear between opposite fracture surfaces. Hydrogen charging resulted in formation of bulk vacancy clusters, linear dimensions shrinkage and grain growth which were interpreted as evidence for vacancy production during the corrosion reaction and for a significant hydrogen-vacancy binding enthalpy.
Descriptors : *CORROSION, *HYDROGEN, *ALUMINUM, PLASTIC DEFORMATION, MECHANICAL PROPERTIES, TENSILE PROPERTIES, THESES, FRACTURE(MECHANICS), PURITY, CRACK PROPAGATION, DUCTILITY, VACANCIES(CRYSTAL DEFECTS), ABSORPTION, HYDROGEN EMBRITTLEMENT, ENTHALPY, SHRINKAGE, ELECTRIC CHARGE, REDUCTION OF AREA.
Subject Categories : PROPERTIES OF METALS AND ALLOYS
MECHANICS
DallasGoldBug
And another http://books.google.com/books?id=lkuTWiE5TBwC&pg=PA249&lpg=PA249&dq=hydrogen+o+rings&source=web&ots=hrmwXoZGbY&sig=EVy0XEXwdta-gOsm5hLTFbANC8M&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=40&ct=result#PPA63,M1 (http://books.google.com/books?id=lkuTWiE5TBwC&pg=PA249&lpg=PA249&dq=hydrogen+o+rings&source=web&ots=hrmwXoZGbY&sig=EVy0XEXwdta-gOsm5hLTFbANC8M&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=40&ct=result#PPA63,M1)
FYI
DallasGB
Dallasgoldbug,
Any updates? Do you know what kind of amps your system is pulling?
glassman
Quote from: DallasGoldBug on July 10, 2008, 08:19:56 AM
Here's how smart John Evans (Cyclonehydrogen) is he copies my electrode and calls it Hurricane.....hahahahha The dumb ass was probably told by his son that a hurricane simply blows (like I'm sure John does in reality) and has nothing in common to a spinning TWISTER. Soon after that, the tool, changes its name to cyclone. hahahahah gota love it.
I have no idea about this thread, haven't even read it yet. I was just here because it showed up on the Main Page as the latest thread with activity. So, I am not commenting on anything regarding the discussions in this thread -- except for the comment quoted above.
You obviously have not had the eye of a hurricane pass over you. On one side of the eye winds are blowing one direction, after the eye passes over they are blowing the opposite direction. There is most definitely spinning involved in a hurricane. Actually, a hurricane is a cyclone. So, changing the name from Hurricane to Cyclone (which from your comment above is what happened, I guess) is basically no change at all.
we were referring to the vortex comparison
I'm moving forward...why don't you?
Quote from: gchagui on May 21, 2008, 11:51:22 PM
Hi, if you find the pics for the construction of this, please post them,,, I found a sketch of this, but still not sure how put it up together.
I just bought my materials today, and I am waitng for construction pictures...
Hope this helps
Hey, from my reading. This is what I've come up with. Someone let me know if I'm wrong.
Check out the attached pic.....
Parts neeeded:
2 Stainless steel threaded rods
Stainless steel sauce cups (2.5 ounce)
Stainless steel nuts (match size of rods, ie- 5/16)
Stainless steel washers
Plastic washers
Plastic spacers
Stainless steel tubing
1. Start off my drilling 2 different size holes in each cup. One just large enough to fit the rod through, and the other larger so that the rod doesnt touch the cup in that hole. Make sure to leave adequate room for your washers.
2. Put 2 nuts at the bottom of the rods with 1 plastic washer on one rod and 1 stainless steel washer on the other. Then put your first cup onto the rods resting it on the washers and nuts at the bottom. (make sure the large hole is on the plastic washer)
3. Then place another washer on each rod (the same as the one at the bottom). Then stainless steel nut, then nylon plastic spacer, then stainless steel nut.
4. At this point you would switch the washers on the rods. Put a plastic washer on the rod you just put the stainless steel washer on and vice versa for the other rod. Then place your next cup on the rods. (making sure the large hole is on the plastic washer)
5. Continue this configuration for the rest of the stack. This is how you get your + - + - +.
6. After adding your last cup, leave a gap between the the stainless steel nut that holds it down and then add 3 more stainless steel nuts (as shown in the picture). Leave some thread above the last nut, as this is where you will push the stainless steel tubing down onto.
I'm not that versed on electrical currents and continuity, there may need to be a neutral cup. So if I'm wrong on anything here, please let me know!
Thanks, hope this helps!
Quote from: rtsurfer on March 07, 2008, 07:50:35 AM
Ok now what about a regulator or PWM to stop the excessive drain.
This is the pwm i use in my hho setup. I bought it here http://www.extremehho.com . I have noticed the excessive heat at the terminals is now gone and it can finally control it. The built in amp gauge is what sold me on this one.
My next step is to hook up a temp gauge for my cell and i also plan on buying a Scangauge II.
The TwisterHHO Fuel Cell will be ready for sale next month. Heres a preview