How can i vote against the bill? I had a phone call and the option to help, but i couldn't hear and it messed up.
How can i help to say no?
Any links that could help me help the ones voting no to this bill? We need as many as possible to help end this!
Too late... the deal is done!
Over 90% of the calls to our representatives were against passing this bill, but they voted for it anyway. So your call wouldn't have mattered anyway.
Aint that something ...
For the people by the people?
So much about the "democratic capitalism" being the best system. Capitalism is not working and it never will. Who has not learn the lesson from the previous "great depression", is a stupid idiot. What strikes me is that every time the big private companies stuff up, they turn to their governments for bailouts.
Governmental intervention is absolutely foreign to a supposed "democratic capitalism". If you drown, you drown on your own. No government should save you.
Of course, who on earth actually believes any more that US is a democracy anyway? After so many imperialistic wars against their "enemies" all over the place, even Hitler looks like a beginner tyrant. Hence, in the nazional socialism, of course that Forrest Gump will do anything save his sorry arse from floating down the toilet. And the ordinary citizens who have already paid their taxes, will foot the bill of saving the big business. Naive sheep. Fleece them, silly ignorant animals.
That country is a shitty joke. And will drown down the dunny anyway. Some "analyst" on the Wall st. and the Vietnam war criminal (aspiring presidential candidate) just said that themselves. I agree. I only wish I could pull the water to speed it up a bit.
The question you guys should be asking:
Who has got the 700 billion that are missing?
Hans von Lieven
Hi All,
Here is the 750 Billion United States "BAIL OUT" bill - :o
http://www.latimes.com/media/acrobat/2008-10/42687187.pdf
Take note of -
Section 211
Section 308 (??) Rum >:(
Section 316
Section 317 (??) NASCAR >:(
Section 321
Section 322
Section 325 (??) Wool >:(
Section 502 (??) Movies >:(
Section 503 (??) Arrows >:(
Section 602
JUST A FEW !!
We've been sold out "PERIOD" by the executive and legislative branch of the USA government ..... dog eats dog ..... 300 Billion maybe but this ..... WTF ?? Just for votes ??
CHEERS (drink up now or puke)
Fuzzy
and nobody even thought about that something like this http://therealnews.com/t/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=2450&updaterx=2008-10-04+04%3A02%3A56 (http://therealnews.com/t/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=2450&updaterx=2008-10-04+04%3A02%3A56) could have happened inbetween, but it did.
I even saw the same principle used in one of the 'simpson'-episode once - and it works over and over again.
615 billion for the military - if it wasnt that sad it would be funny
Quote from: hansvonlieven on October 04, 2008, 04:41:47 AM
The question you guys should be asking:
Who has got the 700 billion that are missing?
Hans von Lieven
hans, nobody has it - we all just have more debt, we have to work for and pay back as taxes
http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=6433985877267580603&hl=de (http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=6433985877267580603&hl=de)
the upper one percent does'nt need money, they're immune to this illusion :D i guess
If the U.S. was run by Americans instead of Jews, there would be no 911 or stock crash. It's no accident!
Jews manipulate all high positions of American society....why?
Answer = parasites
http://www.realjewnews.com/?p=133
http://www.jewwatch.com/index.htm.
http://www.adelaideinstitute.org/LEGAL2006/Jewish_supremacism.htm.
Quote from: ResinRat2 on October 03, 2008, 08:48:36 PM
Too late... the deal is done!
Over 90% of the calls to our representatives were against passing this bill, but they voted for it anyway. So your call wouldn't have mattered anyway.
Democracy in action.
The dam wall has started to crack. Hold tight to your asses!
Quote from: sevich on October 04, 2008, 07:25:13 AM
If the U.S. was run by Americans instead of Jews, there would be no 911 or stock crash. It's no accident!
Jews manipulate all high positions of American society....why?
Answer = parasites
It's actually worse than that, my friend. It's that "american" crap that has screwed up the USA, and the rest of the world along the way, with their masonery and religious bullshit, convincing the masses that only capitalism is good for them. As if. Masonery has destroyed the world in the name of their own power-hungry "ideals" and clinically proven insane ideas about how the world should function. The "profit", the basis of the "democratic capitalism" as glorified by the rich and their Forrest Gumps (USA presidents and respective governments) is in reality unsustainable as our earth is of finite size and you can only have the "economic growth" up to the certain level. After than there is no growth and the caos takes place because the earth will become so overpopulate, and so exausted by humans that the only option will be another world war. To "defend" somebody's "way of life" and that is not even the stupid and illiterate majority in the USA. Only the rich minority who will never relinquish their power and money.
Let us not forget how the "democratic capitalism" came to power: through bloody revolution against the feudal system. By the now already lame and banal mantra "liberty, fraternity, equality" they mobilised the peasants and the opressed to fight for them against the royals of all colours, to throw them out of the power seats. The rich capitalists then simply sat in and never left the power to be shared with the plebs.
Plebs + you and I, the stupid sheep fighting someone else's wars as always, because it is the "law" that forces us to be obedient to our "motherland". How idiotic that is, huh?
I'll digress here: ask yourself how come Osama is still free to roam the pakistan and the Afghan mountains and Saddam was found in no time? Because the nazists in power (the "democratic capitalists") do not want to find their friend. Osama has nothing to do with any of the bullshit Forrest Gump is doing and has done to his own people. I mean, so much drama over a couple of PRIVATE banks falling over and yet not a whisper about the military budget of the almost same size, which by the way gets to be voted in without a single vote against.
And who is so powerful and dangerous to the US to warrant such a mamooth budget? Who is attacking the USA that they have to fight it all over the world?
Last time I was checking NOBODY!!!!!!!!
Nazist regime that is now trying to enslave the world, and so many stupid idiots are volunteering to be enslaved. Of course we need a revolution of the ordinary working people who are still in the chains and now are working more than ever before in the history ( in feudalism you only had to work 4 months max per year to be able to feed the family). And a bloody one, which is extremely sad. Horrible really. But what can one do with such stupid idiots who believe people are still believing their lies and propaganda about "terrorists" and "motherland" being in grave danger.
The only danger is the governments and the capitalism.
A democratis one, of course. We all have the right to be slaves to the rich poofters. And that no one can pay for. For everything else there are their credit cards you have in your wallets (Icoz your money is in their hands).
@ Dr Tesla
I hear a gentle inner voice pleading me to stock up on all non perishable foods along with hundreds of litres of distiled water.
Maybe soon ? ;D ;D ;D
;D
Not me amigo. Although I just ranted like one of those conspiracy buffs, I am not one of them. What I said is what I read in the news, and it does sound like conspiracies from above and below, but the situation is that in a case of a world war, no stockpiles of non-perishable food may be your salvation.
Think nuclear fallouts...and how they happen in the first place...
I am honestly tying to sound optimistic. But I realise that may not be apparent from the above.
:D
Still, I like to vent my dissatisfaction with the liars in the govt. It feels like I am the only one who is voting for someone else. Can it be true that there are so many brainwashed idiots who believe that some religiously motivated arab freak is behind the WTC? With Forrest Gumpo himself saying that he saw the first plane on the TV, when that footage came out the NEXT DAY?
(ok, now I am considering stocking the vitamins too...)
;D
What the hell is up with this bill?
SEC. 503. EXEMPTION FROM EXCISE TAX FOR CERTAIN
21 WOODEN ARROWS DESIGNED FOR USE BY
22 CHILDREN.
23 (a) IN GENERAL.ââ,¬â€Paragraph (2) of section 4161(b)
24 is amended by redesignating subparagraph (B) as subparagraph (C) and by inserting after subparagraph (A)
2 the following new subparagraph:
3 ââ,¬ËœÃ¢â,¬Ëœ(B) EXEMPTION FOR CERTAIN WOODEN
4 ARROW SHAFTS.ââ,¬â€Subparagraph (A) shall not
5 apply to any shaft consisting of all natural
6 wood with no laminations or artificial means of
7 enhancing the spine of such shaft (whether sold
8 separately or incorporated as part of a finished
9 or unfinished product) of a type used in the
10 manufacture of any arrow which after its as
11semblyââ,¬â€
12 ââ,¬ËœÃ¢â,¬Ëœ(i) measures 5â„16 of an inch or less in
13 diameter, and
14 ââ,¬ËœÃ¢â,¬Ëœ(ii) is not suitable for use with a bow
15 described in paragraph (1)(A).ââ,¬â,,¢Ã¢â,¬â,,¢.
16 (b) EFFECTIVE DATE.ââ,¬â€The amendments made by
17 this section shall apply to shafts first sold after the date
18 of enactment of this Act.
WHY THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT INCLUDED!!
sorry for the language but, i just can believe this stuff is in there
@ Sevich
I abosolutely love the Illuminati earrings on hillary!(she doesnt deserve capitalisation) ;D
hahahahahaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh
We are in deep poo poo! :o
@ Fuzzy Tomcat
Have you sat down and read this whole thing?
I didn't really want to but, given the bullshit you pointed out I guess i"ll have to. :-[
To all Americans in this forum:
DON'T VOTE!
The no-vote is not a solution because one ends up with a republican or a democrat as a prez. Everyone should come out and vote for someone else. Anyone. Just not for the two mentally deranged parties. That is the only way to exercise some kind of "democracy" and send the message to the two dinosauruses that they are out of touch and out of credit with the people. I mean, what is the difference between the two major parties anyway?
None. Zero. Niks.
RON PAUL REVOLUTION WHY DID HE NOT MAKE IT HE HAD TONS OF SUPPORT AND STILL DOES!!!
Wish voting would actually get people in office to make RON PUAL president would be nice to if it would get him in the office.
Seeing as how it wont do much vote OBAMA instead at least you do not take away votes from a possible good thing.
Ron Paul seeks to reinstate the constitution as it was ment to be give people back there freedom.
Why is Ron Paul gone from the running?
Did not a one of you watch Ron Pauls speeches he is the only one I know who had anything differnt to say in the race for canidates.
Why do all these stiffs like McSame consistantly get elected into office? It does not make since. Its like its all setup.
Obama will do better then McSame I'm sure of it but.... If our vote actually counted for anything I would vote ron paul... Seing as how are votes only count as a small contribution to the electorial votes I aint voting or I'm votin Obama cause I dont wanna see McSame in office he is the worst case scenerio I lived Alaska for a while you think the prices of fuel and food here are poor Ms. Palin did nothing for the Alaskans to even out the playing feild with the lower 48... Instead she squandered more money from the people via outrageous prices so that she could pay people there divedend checks every year for the pipeline basically it was the people paying for it think of it for a while. The lower 48 flys there goods accross many states constantly everyday to be exact so what is the differnce if you fly goods to alaska or from alaska not much really its all a big illusion created by government that its a big deal to do this and thats why it costs more when in truth it costs a lot more to fly across the country ... Not to mention she has already been caught in the act of some horrendous crimes. She has done unthinkable things that you or I would have been imprisoned for years for and sued to high heaven. Proven fact. She is a manipulator, and master at the art of blackmail.
Ballot box or not we do not want more of the same.
Vote No Curruption no McSame!
I would love to see Ron Paul but... I do not know weather this is possible.
The electorial vote is the only thing that counts and the votes are made by people who are educated by our system thus influenced and brainwashed to make decisions on what the government wants for the government it is no conspiracy the government pays for the education and the education given to these people are made by the government and for the government so they can brainwash the people to spread there structure. Dont believe me read up on instructional design or becoming a leader these books will show you how to create a social structure within your business it is the same thing but on a more massive scale.
Educate yourself then look into things you will then learn I am not spewing utter BS.
So my vote is Obama because giving no vote or voting for someone else will take away a vote for at least a half assed chance at reestablishment for the people.
Quote from: reada on October 04, 2008, 06:52:54 AM
hans, nobody has it - we all just have more debt, we have to work for and pay back as taxes
http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=6433985877267580603&hl=de (http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=6433985877267580603&hl=de)
the upper one percent does'nt need money, they're immune to this illusion :D i guess
@ reada,
You miss the point. The reason for the 700 billion dollar bail out is that there is a shortfall of 700 billion, money that should have been there but isn't anymore. So who has got it?
Hans von Lieven
Hi all,
you should read this here :
http://www.tbrnews.org/ (http://www.tbrnews.org/)
This will oper your eyes. The money can not just vanish or go lost. It is as Hans says : It has been shipped to ...
Regards
Kator
Quote from: hansvonlieven on October 04, 2008, 06:37:39 PM
@ reada,
You miss the point. The reason for the 700 billion dollar bail out is that there is a shortfall of 700 billion, money that should have been there but isn't anymore. So who has got it?
Hans von Lieven
Most of the 700 billion is in defaulted home loans .
A few years ago I heard that the majority of new home loans in the upper class neighborhoods in this area were interest only .
Planning to pay only interest for 5 or 10 years works great if the economy keeps going up .....but if it declines even a little it is financial suicide .
Another big part of the puzzle is that the banks that were making the loans knew that they would not be the ones holding the loans in the long run .
Because the loans were being sold to other companys , the banks really didn't care if the people getting the loans were really qualified .
gary
I see no logic in voting in a rigged election.
To do so is redundancy by definition.
Regards...
Quote from: hansvonlieven on October 04, 2008, 06:37:39 PM
@ reada,
You miss the point. The reason for the 700 billion dollar bail out is that there is a shortfall of 700 billion, money that should have been there but isn't anymore. So who has got it?
Hans von Lieven
There is no real money in the first place they just made it up on paper.
Quote from: Reformator on October 04, 2008, 11:01:31 AM
To all Americans in this forum:
DON'T VOTE!
i really have to ask, does your vote count?...i think not, just a show to make you feel better about the bullshit your about to get into.
Quote from: Cap-Z-ro on October 04, 2008, 09:03:08 PM
I see no logic in voting in a rigged election.
To do so is redundancy by definition.
Regards...
Quite a good point. I keep forgetting how did the retard got the power in the first place. Screwing up "democratic capitalism" to "democratically win" the "voting".
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.despair.com%2Fproducts%2Fdemotivators%2Fpropaganda.jpg&hash=0995e3ac5c3cb6b29574a952997f1c086b2049e5)
I have a great idea..
Let's give more fuel, matches and some explosives, missiles to the arsonists and the process that created and protects them.
The only people who actuallly do anything have always been blue collar workers...
Investors DONT DO ANYTHING.
Perhaps its a battle about the people that talk and the people that do
The emperors new clothes is the parable that aplies here ..
I'm just a dumb auzzie..."It wont effetc us" our arsonists have said so many times ...just not so often of late.
Remember that if you are actually doing something usefull in your work ...please keep doing it whatever happens.
Interesting times us aussies are right behind you
Lindsay
You miss the point. The reason for the 700 billion dollar bail out is that there is a shortfall of 700 billion, money that should have been there but isn't anymore. So who has got it?
Hans von Lieven
Hi Hans;
First off the name Vonwolf is the registered name of my Labrador, he was my best friend so no offence.
I am a certified general contractor in Florida up until 2 years ago I mostly was a Construction Manager for different Large Builders. The Higher end homes weren’t much of a problem, the people with money mostly knew what they were getting into.
The new “investors†were unbelievable. I say investors but they were just Rubes at best. The Builders salesmen were out of control, Real estate “salesmen†namely anyone who could take some online classes were out of control. Land that 7 years ago sold for $3500 was magically a steal at $85,000?
Not only were these fools buying a house for themselves @ $278,000 but they were investing in 2 more of these Jem’s? So were talking about some clown out of Miami or Michigan all of a sudden their Land Barons with over ¾ mill of assets, oh boy.
I would stand there looking at a house here and a house there and all around were empty lots as far as the eye could see. This happened time and time again. It was really sad we could see our careers dyeing.
The Bank that my wife was an officer was heavy into Construction Loans. Any time they needed more money the sold the hell out of T Bills with better rates. 2 years before the bottom fell out the State came in and made them close there construction loan division down (thankfully) but that was the beginning of the end, Florida knew it 3 years ago.
So you ask where’s the money? Swamp Land in Florida and god only knows what other hot properties around the Country.
Constructions dead oh well I only have 30 plus years invested in it, there’s always the Lottery
Pete
Quote from: PYRODIN123321 on October 04, 2008, 10:50:12 AM
I abosolutely love the Illuminati earrings on hillary!(she doesnt deserve capitalisation) ;D
oops ........forgot to give recognition to >>> http://www.rense.com/ <<< for the pic as well as other informative news.
infringer
Yes would have voted for Ron Paul if I was an American Even here there were many of us hoping that people in the U.S.A. would wake up.
If Ron Paul had won the Race he would be another JF Kennedy.
Them Guys (owners of the Fed. Reserve Bank and companions) don't fool around.
Money buys life and death.
professor
Quote from: infringer on October 04, 2008, 11:45:32 AM
RON PAUL REVOLUTION WHY DID HE NOT MAKE IT HE HAD TONS OF SUPPORT AND STILL DOES!!!
Wish voting would actually get people in office to make RON PUAL president would be nice to if it would get him in the office.
Seeing as how it wont do much vote OBAMA instead at least you do not take away votes from a possible good thing.
Ron Paul seeks to reinstate the constitution as it was ment to be give people back there freedom.
Why is Ron Paul gone from the running?
Did not a one of you watch Ron Pauls speeches he is the only one I know who had anything differnt to say in the race for canidates.
Why do all these stiffs like McSame consistantly get elected into office? It does not make since. Its like its all setup.
Obama will do better then McSame I'm sure of it but.... If our vote actually counted for anything I would vote ron paul... Seing as how are votes only count as a small contribution to the electorial votes I aint voting or I'm votin Obama cause I dont wanna see McSame in office he is the worst case scenerio I lived Alaska for a while you think the prices of fuel and food here are poor Ms. Palin did nothing for the Alaskans to even out the playing feild with the lower 48... Instead she squandered more money from the people via outrageous prices so that she could pay people there divedend checks every year for the pipeline basically it was the people paying for it think of it for a while. The lower 48 flys there goods accross many states constantly everyday to be exact so what is the differnce if you fly goods to alaska or from alaska not much really its all a big illusion created by government that its a big deal to do this and thats why it costs more when in truth it costs a lot more to fly across the country ... Not to mention she has already been caught in the act of some horrendous crimes. She has done unthinkable things that you or I would have been imprisoned for years for and sued to high heaven. Proven fact. She is a manipulator, and master at the art of blackmail.
Ballot box or not we do not want more of the same.
Vote No Curruption no McSame!
I would love to see Ron Paul but... I do not know weather this is possible.
The electorial vote is the only thing that counts and the votes are made by people who are educated by our system thus influenced and brainwashed to make decisions on what the government wants for the government it is no conspiracy the government pays for the education and the education given to these people are made by the government and for the government so they can brainwash the people to spread there structure. Dont believe me read up on instructional design or becoming a leader these books will show you how to create a social structure within your business it is the same thing but on a more massive scale.
Educate yourself then look into things you will then learn I am not spewing utter BS.
So my vote is Obama because giving no vote or voting for someone else will take away a vote for at least a half assed chance at reestablishment for the people.
@ vonwolf,
good to hear from you. This is exactly the kind of stuff I have been talking about. If a country allows their citizens to be fleeced in such a fashion, lets the criminals get away with it, and then forces people to replace the money that was stolen in the first place it's not much of an administration.
And just to make things clear, the banks had to be in on it in the first place or they would not have lent the money.
They knew all along what the scam was and they cashed in on it. I feel sorry for the American people. And as usual the culprits go free.
Hans von Lieven
Quote from: PYRODIN123321 on October 04, 2008, 10:50:12 AM
@ Fuzzy Tomcat
Have you sat down and read this whole thing?
I didn't really want to but, given the bullshit you pointed out I guess i"ll have to. :-[
Hi PYRODIN123321,
I read it when I have time, the "Sections" I listed were the big flags that this isn't a Democrat or Republican issue as much as a "Legislative" government branch issue. There's got to be term limits on these SOB's in Congress and the House of Representatives. The President, Governor's "Executive" branch have term limits some of those idiots in the "Legislative" branch have been there longer than you probably have been alive (not being mean to you at all) vote them SOB's out, we need new citizens to take the torch thru this dark time, we need term limits.
There is wayyyyyyy to much pork in this bill that is now law ............... 100's of BILLION's
Best Regards,
Fuzzy
Quote from: hansvonlieven on October 04, 2008, 06:37:39 PM
@ reada,
You miss the point. The reason for the 700 billion dollar bail out is that there is a shortfall of 700 billion, money that should have been there but isn't anymore. So who has got it?
Hans von Lieven
@ Hans and orthers
Here in Germany
the news want to make us believe, that the summ vor the baiout is about 700Mrd and not 700Brd
Can anyone help out with realistik information and perhaps some reference.
helmut
Quote from: helmut on October 05, 2008, 04:47:54 AM
Here in Germany the news want to make us believe, that the summ vor the baiout is about 700Mrd and not 700Brd
| factor: | 106 | 109 | 1012 | 1015 |
| SI prefix: | M (mega-) | G (giga-) | T (tera-) | P (peta-) |
| (American) English: | million | billion | trillion | quadrillion |
| German: | Million | Milliarde | Billion | Billiarde |
See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SI_prefix and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_and_short_scales
Quote from: orbs on October 05, 2008, 06:54:25 AM
| factor: | 106 | 109 | 1012 | 1015 |
| SI prefix: | M (mega-) | G (giga-) | T (tera-) | P (peta-) |
| (American) English: | million | billion | trillion | quadrillion |
| German: | Million | Milliarde | Billion | Billiarde |
See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SI_prefix and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_and_short_scales
@Orbs
Thanx for the Update.
Quote from: helmut on October 05, 2008, 07:50:59 AM
@Orbs
Thanx for the Update.
I had missinterpreted the "Billion"
Very usefull Answer.
Thanks
hey Hans;
There is alot of blame to go around. These new "investors" were just plain greedy The Large Builders were greedy My Wifes former Employer was greedy. There was alot of that going on. There were also alot of foreign "investor" too. They got greedy too.
The State forced the Wifes Bank to close down the Construction Loans so alot of smaller builders had to come up with money so everyone was mad at the state.in reality the bank was saved by this move. still have hope for our stock options ah well kinda anyway.
Like I said it hurt watching the constructin industry die, we all saw it comming but it was done, over stick a fork in it. There all this land thats worth 5 mybe 6 thousand and all these moron investors snapped it up for anywhere beween $55,000 to over $100,000? Do the math someones going to have to take one hell of a bath before another stick of wood goes up to start any new home industry.
This happened all over the country, people that have no idea what they were doing becoming instant land speculatrs and screwning everything up. There was alot of blame to go around, there should have been more oversite no doubt but these people just couldn't wait to hold each others hands and jumping of the cliff. It was a wild ride I just hope ahh err?? well I can't even think of a end to that sentance I think I'll just stand in the corner^^^^ wake me when it over
Thaks for listening Pete
What do you mean the money is missing? Speak english. Break it down for the stupid!
@ Spewing,
How do you think a 700 billion dollar shortfall can occur?
For this to happen 700 billion dollars had to go to someone in real cash. Cash that the banks had but that is no longer there. Assets that were on the books and no longer are. Now, they well may hold assets that they paid a million for, that are now only worth a hundred dollars, but someone must have got a very real million in the first place. These are the things you should be looking at.
Hans von Lieven
It was like a huge piramid scam the ones that were luky enough or smart enough to get in and out fast made wads of Money. Obviously the large Real Estate firms raked it in big time The larger Devolopers made out like bandits The Banks made out and all the obviously corrupt assholes connected to them.
Last but not least the Dumb ass Newvo land barons who bought 3 houses at $275,000, they were sold the idea that they could sell 2 and live in 1 for free and all with no money down oh boy, its so easy!!? well not relly so in the end every one walked away. and all the banks and Huge Developers were stuck with all this land they had on the books worth (keeping it simple) $298.000 average house but it really is worth half that.
Then for some reason the bank decided to hold the country hostage just before the elections. O gee we have all this bad debt you have to save us? They have had that bad debt for over a year, the were still getting hudge bonuses but all of a sudden its a national emergency?
Two months later and they all go to jail but ya this is much better, now they can do it all over again.and the still get those bonuses.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0y70CAeNd4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g72BuIvMbWY
Quote from: helmut on October 05, 2008, 04:47:54 AM
@ Hans and orthers
Here in Germany
the news want to make us believe, that the summ vor the baiout is about 700Mrd and not 700Brd
Can anyone help out with realistik information and perhaps some reference.
helmut
It is $700 Billion raising our national debt to around 11.3 Trillion. But now the Feds are raising even more money to pay the interest and may be around $900 Billion separate from the first bill past. I read about that last night. I also saw, in addition to the T-bills another poster spoke about, that it began with the sub prime loans that people could not afford to pay for that ran amuck. The assets had to be assessed at a lower rate and thus there was a loss. There have been allot of people letting go of their homes and being bankrupt or foreclosure. The house then goes on the market for a lower price. The amount loaned is more than the amount the house is sold for. The bank loses. They had in turn sold these in a big package on the stock market, and even people over seas, who thought they were safe stock, bought them. The assessment of the house is down..and there was a domino effect going on there so it was a growing percentage of them, so the stock is worth less money, so the holder loses, and so on, and so on.
This exciting new idea that "It is Americans right that everyone should have a home." started under Clinton. The banks were given new rules on loaning, and loans were no longer based on 25% debt total, good credit, and a percentage down. People could have bad credit, or no credit, put nothing down, and get a revolving rate that goes up and up and up, out of control. The people who were getting these loans did not understand budgeting and mortgage issues. They did not push to get a fixed rate, sometimes got loads of credit cards from credit card companies with 0% interest (then in fine print 29.9% after the first 6 months) that then would hound them, just knowing they found a victim, then you have to pay escrow for the insurance and raising property taxes, then the house has to have upkeep, etc.
Bush continued this, because no one realized that it was chancy. Now this is not the ONLY thing involved here, but one of many. We also have been having a job loss for 9 consecutive months. Many companies have closed or moved over seas, outsourcing. Bush thought if he made it so other companies like China could compete with us better, we'd have better world economy. Well many of our companies reduced like Ford (who also outsources) or moved like Colgate, and China began importing more goods to us (often poisoned or poor quality). Then we promptly borrowed a trillion dollars from China. Also there has been the gas problem going up to $150 per barrel at one point. This raises the cost of transportation, and manufacturing and has a large effect on overall economy. There is a suggestion by Ken Deffeyes, Princeton University Geologist, and author of "Hubbert's Peak: The impending world's oil shortage" who suggested at $200 per barrel we would see a slow down of economy (10%) and at $300 (15% total economy) we would have total shut down. This has a little to do with it too.
Under the Reagan Administration 1981, in Maryland it was announced to the science researchers in the Dept. of Energy that There was no need to have newer technology for renewable resources because it would be at least 50 years before we needed it. My instructor who was a researcher there at the time calls this "The worse decision a President ever made." (He's not trying to be political, but just assessing the decision itself). We pulled out of the studies in Fusion and quit researching alternative fossil fuels such as tar sands and shale oil, and did not really push things like solar and wind. Even now, as I received a letter from my congressman recently, they are passing bills to send money for research for technology, (much to oil companies) but did not seem interested in trying to increase the use of the wind and solar that we presently have (understand everywhere can't have these sources, but we could put them where feasible such as wind turbines in the Midwest and solar in western states such as New Mexico, California, and Arizona, etc. He did mention his support in Biofuels though, but did not explain whether he backed corn, or other alternatives.
Bush pushed a mandate of 25% corn to be made into ethanol. This has a 1:1.3 ratio of fossil fuel input to ethanol output. Plus during fermentation it puts out carbon dioxide and takes some enzymes added to start the process. But Cane ethanol has a 1:8 ratio and starts fermenting as soon as it is cut. Also, there is not much going on to educate anyone about the distribution areas of it. I asked the local car salesmen where we could get ethanol for the flex fuel cars that are made to either take gasoline or a 85% ethanol mixture. Now we do have them and geological survey has an interactive map that you can check to find them but they are few and far in between and hard to find. The salesman had no idea. The GM (made and assembled in Japan, though an American Co.) cars they had were about $10000 more than the others and plus had about 23mpg average. Toyota has more, up to 45mpg, but I could not find those cars around here. Now, who is going to buy a car that has the gas mileage possibility of an SUV, costs more, and you have to use gasoline anyways because you don't know where to get the ethanol?
I told the congressman I'm going to pull out GIS, put the distribution points on it, (make road maps for each local site in each local county), make posters and take them to the car dealerships. Problem is, it may be too late.
Here is a link about oil: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/specials/chi-oil-side1-story,0,2965469.htmlstory?coll=chi-homepagepromo440-fea
And to about the $700 billion: http://home.peoplepc.com/psp/newsstory.asp?cat=business&id=20081007/48eadec0_3422_1334620081007-369442566erify the $700B number:
Corrections from above post:
http://home.peoplepc.com/psp/newsstory.asp?cat=business&id=20081007/48eadec0_3422_1334620081007-369442566
Sorry for the momentary brain farct: it's "variable rates," not revolving rates.
Oh did you see, AIG used $400,000 of the 85 Billion obtained from the government to send executives to a spa and now they are asking for 35 Billion more.
Guess they're trying to get money to get out of here because the taxpayers are mad. It might not do any good. Because of these out of control and irresponsible type of actions, the whole world is now caught in a domino effect of the flailing world economy. They might get rotton vegetables thrown at them if they travel. ( this paragraph is just a joke).
OPEC wants to reduce oil supply to raise the prices back up. It could be the straw that breaks the camel's back to destroy the economy. Can we throw rotten vegetables at OPEC?
Quote from: GeoscienceStudent on October 09, 2008, 09:28:41 AM
OPEC wants to reduce oil supply to raise the prices back up. It could be the straw that breaks the camel's back to destroy the economy. Can we throw rotten vegetables at OPEC?
Hi GeoscienceStudent;
I haven't heard that one yet, I guess this might give you a idea whos side there on. maybee we could throw some nuclear vegetables at them.
Only kidding of course
HOW BOUT WE JUST START KICKING THEIR ASSES WHEN WE SEE EM
TAKE OUR MONEY BACK RIGHT OUT OF THEIR FAT WALLETS, I MET SMITH BARNEY THE STOCK GUY FOR CITIBANK, I COULD OF KICKED HIS ASS, BUT I DIDNT KNOW WHO HE WAS AT THE TIME.
ACCIDENTLY STOOD HIM UP FOR A SIT DOWN TO BUY SOME STOCK, HAHA, I THOUGHT HE WAS JUST SOME ASS WORKIN FOR CITIBANK SO I BLEW OFF THE APPOINTMENT!
While Rome burns.......
The 700 Billion is not really gone. The money has been spent by banks to allow people to buy homes for which they could not afford for much more than they were worth.
Economics 101
For instance when you buy a home you promise to pay the bank X amount of dollars over X amount of time. The bank then pays the builder or property owner that money. Where that money goes from there is any ones guess (houses and lots, whore houses and lots of whiskey?). Anyway the bank then will take that paper and either keep it or sell it off for a reduced amount of principle plus mature interest that loan would collect.
now here lies the problem, when you don't make your payments on that house loan the bank has to kick you out of the house and then try to resell the property to collect on the note.. The bank then tries to sell that home. But at this current time this home is now worth much less than what you paid for and the bank now has to sell it at a loss, This bank would be fanny Mae or Freddie mac. the people who underwrote most of the home loans. Eventually with as many foreclosures as there are you go broke.
Now there are two people who caused the economic problem:
#1 The stupid shit making $30,000 a year who thought he could make payments on a $300,000 house
#2 The equally stupid loan manager who allowed the loan to go through.
It is the American "dream" to own a home but it is not a god given right. It is certainly not the governments obligation to help you make the payments on that loan you took out..
Predatory lending my ass..
You hit the nail squarely on the head hakware.
It was the government's SOCIAL policies that "encouraged" (by policy) the banks to lower their stringent mortgage requirements and loan money to poorer and minority homebuyers. It was discriminatory to keep these people from owning a house in a good neighborhood. So they encouraged these people to buy houses too expensive for their incomes in the name of social justice. To hell with requirements! Give them the loans anyway!
So the result is this mess, perpetrated by socialists in my government, who stole the money for their failed social experiments from the pocketbooks of hard working citizens of the United States; and the Bailout was the fuel that will keep these policies going. This crisis was also the catalyst that now gave the government the power to buy up banks and failed loans. It is a power and capital grab like never before seen in the United States. The Nazi's are rising.
SICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
i guess if you give out money people will take it regardless of the consequences, stupid,
like putting candy in front of a child and saying take only what you think you need
-of course they will take as much as they can and wonder why their stomach hurts!!!
Yep, Sad times lie ahead.
Lending indiscriminantly is no doubt not viable in the long term. There are however what i see as deeper problems. I use to think it was logical that the banks loan out money that was entrusted to them by account holders and investors. I found out recently that the banks loan out much more than that. It is literally conjuration upon conjuration.
Money continues to be conjured up for as long as people continue to borrow. Due to the way it works, it is impossible for all the loans to be paid back.
check out the following. It is called "Money as debt".
After i saw the video, it dawned on me that a bank can actually pay their account holders/ investors, a higher interest rate than what they charge their borrowers(nothing to do with fees, but you will understand after watching the video), and yet still make a lot more money.
After you see it, tell me if you still think the crux of the problem is in indiscriminate lending.
The first link is rather simplified, but still good
http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/135.html
The 2nd link i looked at after Gheller J had posted it in another post on this forum. It goes more in depth with the banking system (i am not even half way through it, but it seems pretty good so far)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7065205277695921912
Quote from: johnyb on October 11, 2008, 06:56:32 AM
Lending indiscriminantly is no doubt not viable in the long term. There are however what i see as deeper problems. I use to think it was logical that the banks loan out money that was entrusted to them by account holders and investors. I found out recently that the banks loan out much more than that. It is literally conjuration upon conjuration.
Money continues to be conjured up for as long as people continue to borrow. Due to the way it works, it is impossible for all the loans to be paid back.
check out the following. It is called "Money as debt".
After i saw the video, it dawned on me that a bank can actually pay their account holders/ investors, a higher interest rate than what they charge their borrowers(nothing to do with fees, but you will understand after watching the video), and yet still make a lot more money.
After you see it, tell me if you still think the crux of the problem is in indiscriminate lending.
The first link is rather simplified, but still good
http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/135.html
The 2nd link i looked at after Gheller J had posted it in another post on this forum. It goes more in depth with the banking system (i am not even half way through it, but it seems pretty good so far)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7065205277695921912
Sure thing, ever since we went off the gold standard they were able to do fractional lending. A whole other box of rotten apples
Quote from: hakware
#1 The stupid shit making $30,000 a year who thought he could make payments on a $300,000 house
What about the stupid F$^&* companies that underpay that $30,000/yr employee
how about the ignorant F$%^s that are charging $300,000 for a house in the first place????
When you see what forclosed houses actually sell for (a better indication of their actual worth) at bank auction, you can see the REAL cause of the "bailout".
incessant greed drove the real estate market to record highs since 2002, outsourcing left MOST of us with salaries in the $30k range (IF we were lucky enough to even FIND a job after the NAFTA disaster)
These F$%^&*s with million dollar salaries needed to be drug out of their MILLION dollar homes and have a bullet to the base of the skull (on national TV) for mismanaging those funds away in the first place....
(NOT joking)
Get ready and watch the forclosures go NUTS when energy deregulation kicks in full force in 2010. . .
somebody should have dropped a 220v line in that AIG Spa... >:(
Here's one more straw for that camel's back:
http://www.nationalpost.com/related/links/story.html?id=866536 October 8, 2008
Not only do we have the world economy going into the toilet, but the OPEC cartel is planning to cut the oil supply in order to increase the prices. I guess Dubai has not made enough man-made islands. Time to pull out the rotten vegetables...on second thought, move off of oil, and throw the vegetables on any congressional member that does not support increasing renewable resources and the increasing the technology to make this ability come to fruition.
Here are some recent bills being introduced and tracking on how they and who is voting on them:
HR 6 http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=s2007-226
HR 364 http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-364
HR 547 http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-547
HR 635 http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-635
HR 6049 http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-6049
HR 6709 http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-6709
I don't have rotton veggies. Do you think Kitty poo will do?