I'm interested in knowing what "free energy" designs use wires made of magnetic materials, such as iron, steel, or even PM's. I'm more interested in the designs where the "free energy" may come from the magnetic wires.
I think the TPU is one, right? Any others?
Thanks,
PL
Not ferrous, but I'd think Craig's device would be right up your alley Paul.....
http://www.rexresearch.com/craig/craig.htm
Also, I've had some very promising results using bismuth in tandem with Terfenol-D
http://www.etrema-usa.com/products/terfenol/
TS
The "Hall Effect" is made up of plates of bismuth stacked on top of each other with wire placed between each plate and then it is covered with sulfur with the wire coming out of the top.
This acts in a way like your "Smoking Gun" does. I wonder how diodes or triodes made up of bismuth would work in a array like your Smoking Gun.
As you had pointed out before, all matter has a thermal value and the higher the value, the higher the potential. Does bismuth have a higher thermal value then most and if so, can it be used in a diode and or inbetween diodes?
What matter has the highest thermal value and can it be made into a wire?
G'day all,
Isn't what you guys are playing with nothing more than a thermocouple?
Hans von Lieven
in order from highest to lower::
zinc
lead
magnesium
aluminum
tin/brass
silver
zinc wire @ 60-70cents / foot
http://www.rotometals.com/ZINC-WIRE-DIA-091-Per-Foot_p_0-1840.html (http://www.rotometals.com/ZINC-WIRE-DIA-091-Per-Foot_p_0-1840.html)
MSDS http://www.sciencelab.com/xMSDS-Zinc_Metal-9925476 (http://www.sciencelab.com/xMSDS-Zinc_Metal-9925476)
Quote from: hansvonlieven on December 07, 2008, 02:16:57 PM
G'day all,
Isn't what you guys are playing with nothing more than a thermocouple?
Hans von Lieven
Hi, Hans!
Yep, The Seebeck effect is a "FE energy", as long as there's a temperature gradient providing the real energy source... Or, Inverse, Peltier-Seebeck....
The modified thermocouple is a thermopile (combining many of thermocouple metals in a "pile"...)
Quote
"The output of a thermopile is usually in the range of tens or hundreds of millivolts."
Oops, looks like it will not power Led's....
Ok, the diode arrays are not novelty. And they will not produce any usable "power" or "energy" all by it's own. Johnson's "noise" works only if the diode is biased with another electrical source....
If there's any "DC" detected, it's actually a consequence of all the junctions (wires/semiconductors) acting like a (very inefficient) thermocouple...
Exposure to heat gradient helps a bit, but still...
Far from being usable...
Quote
"The output of a thermopile is usually in the range of tens or hundreds of millivolts."
Not quite correct. In Russia for quite a while radios were available that used a thermopile as power source. You simply put the thermopile on top of the stove or above a kerosene lantern and off you went. This was meant to service areas where electricity was unavailable and where batteries were difficult to get or were simply unaffordable.
For a rundown on high efficiency thermopiles including a photograph of the Russian Lamp Generator see:
http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/POWER/thermoelectric/thermoelectric.htm#rl
Hans von Lieven
Quote from: hansvonlieven on December 07, 2008, 03:00:13 PM
Quote
"The output of a thermopile is usually in the range of tens or hundreds of millivolts."
Not quite correct. In Russia for quite a while radios were available that used a thermopile as power source. You simply put the thermopile on top of the stove or above a kerosene lantern and off you went. This was meant to service areas where electricity was unavailable and where batteries were difficult to get or were simply unaffordable.
For a rundown on high efficiency thermopiles including a photograph of the Russian Lamp Generator see:
http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/POWER/thermoelectric/thermoelectric.htm#rl
Hans von Lieven
OK, the quote was for a "classical thermocouple wires", based on original Seebeck effect....
If one uses a Peltier (plate/area contacts) , then the situation changes...
The "thermopile" with Seebeck or Peltier differs in construction..
Any portable Peltier refrigerator could work as an electrical energy source (if exposed to a suitable thermal source/drain)...
Btw, the Russian site talks about Peltier type devices. Very nice!
Hans, I think you are on to something with that question. The reading we get from a thermocouple is really nothing more then energy reading. I think Paul has came up with a way to tap and collect the natural energy that is in the parts of a diode. A thermocouple taps radiant energy that is in the air or trapped in matter for us to get a reading and I think Paul has led us to away to use a thermocouples as a usable power source.
I wonder what would happen if we took some common thermocouples and attached a diode to each end of each one and connected them in parallel, if we could create a usable power source?
I am not sure if that makes to you all but I tried. LOL
@ PaulLowrance
Check out Tesla's US Patent 381970 "System of electrical distribution" where he mentioned "Winding over the coils with a layer or layers of insulated Iron wire".
It may not be OU but has been related to SM's TPU.
Regards,
Paul
On the idea of iron wire...
A magnetic field (circling?) the wire is created with current flow in that wire.
If you could make a magnetic field circle a conductor in the same way as the one normally created would that induce current flow in that wire?
If this is possible (why not? many functions are reversible in electromagnetics) then this would explain the application of an external magnet as some form of starting mechanism.
On the use of iron wire as part of the construction of a coil or transformer I've seen reports of 'no core' pole transformers used during shortages during the great wars and in antique radios. Most of this information came from other researchers of this forum.
the reciever coil of a 'crystal radio' is wound out of iron (magnetic) wire, with an air-core
that alone, with a good anteanna and solid earth ground can power a small speaker.
you'll need a diode, otherwise the collapsing field produces an equal but opposite current to flow in the wire and nothing will happen.
Quote from: sm0ky2 on December 07, 2008, 06:40:44 PM
the reciever coil of a 'crystal radio' is wound out of iron (magnetic) wire, with an air-core
that alone, with a good anteanna and solid earth ground can power a small speaker.
you'll need a diode, otherwise the collapsing field produces an equal but opposite current to flow in the wire and nothing will happen.
Really? I've built more than my share of these radio sets and never used iron wire. I suppose it could work but the wire resistance would change things a bit. All the ones I've heard of used magnet wire (not magnetic wire). Since magnet wire is usually copper and never magnetic I had no problems.
None would drive a speaker directly. Maybe I need to find some magnetic wire?
Interesting thoughts on what the diode does :)
Quote from: spinner on December 07, 2008, 02:48:08 PM
The modified thermocouple is a thermopile (combining many of thermocouple metals in a "pile"...)
Oops, looks like it will not power Led's....
I think there are modules which can put a decent amount of power out. I think thermoelectric generators have a tremendous potential. There are so many things we have which waste heat, even the sun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rt1BcxJRfmE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNwZ4vi_02U&feature=related
Bmw sees the potential..There's also a company which about a year ago developed an 80% efficient module..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkP7v8yYivQ
Hard to find any good ones on the web, this is pretty much all I could find atm.
http://www.shop.customthermoelectric.com/product.sc?categoryId=12&productId=110
http://shop.ebay.com/items/_W0QQ_dmdZ1QQ_sopZ12?_nkw=peltier+cpu+cooler&_sacat=0&_fromfsb=&_trksid=m270.l1313&_odkw=peltier+cpu+cooler&_osacat=0 (http://shop.ebay.com/items/_W0QQ_dmdZ1QQ_sopZ12?_nkw=peltier+cpu+cooler&_sacat=0&_fromfsb=&_trksid=m270.l1313&_odkw=peltier+cpu+cooler&_osacat=0)
these work great as generators, and run from $10-15, output around 4-7v per module
if you can keep the cold side cool, you can make all kinds of power from any heat source around.
i have 4 of them i used for my candle-generator,
I see thermocouples as a form of diode, as it requires to dissimilar materials. The thermocouple is caused by thermoelectric effects. Well, as far as I'm aware, semiconductors have the highest thermoelectric effects. On a molecular scale, natural vast temperature gradients exist, which causes Johnson noise. And Johnson noise causes temperature gradients. Who knows which one came first, it's like the chicken and egg question. Here's a cool video that shows thermoelectric effects with a diode array -->
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXA4I-1kbBc
These Thermoelectric devices are designed for an external source of power. In terms of converting natural ambient thermal energy into usable energy, it would be difficult to detect with such Thermoelectric devices as shown in the youtube video since they're not made with that many diodes, and such diodes are unsuited for the task. A far better diode is the SMS7630.
I've used the SMS76301 diodes, which have produce over 0.2mV DC with 156 in-series from passive diodes made with palladium and silicon. These are single diodes meant to be soldered. I would agree that it would require a diode array *chip* made with microscopic diodes to provide proof2 that given enough diodes (microscopic) would produce usable amounts of power.
PL
References:
How Thermoelectric devices are made:
http://www.alibaba.com/catalog/11214927/Thermoelectric_Module.html
http://www.laserfocusworld.com/articles/302489
SMS76301:
http://greenselfreliantenergy.com/forum/index.php?board=15.0
Evidence2:
http://greenselfreliantenergy.com
TechStuf, may I ask how much the Terfenol-D cost. Sounds like some great material to experiment with.
sm0ky2, thanks for ebay link! That's amazing those units are so inexpensive now. I'm buying one. What a deal.
I had a half backed idea, which is reason for starting this thread. Basically, if the magnetic wire is circumferencially annealed, then the preferred atomic magnetic alignment occurs when current is flowing through the magnetic wire. Energy is released when this occurs. Normally such energy has nowhere to go, except by means of heat-- MCE, Magnetocaloric effect. This is a well known effect. When the field is applied, the material heats up. When it's removed, it cools down. This is used in deep freeze coolers. I was thinking that if the current is extremely low, and rises at a slow rate, then it may be possible to capture the MCE energy that occurs in bursts due to magnetic avalanches. IMO it would be difficult to overcome the net losses. The idea is to increase the current so that an avalanche occurs -->
http://chaos.utexas.edu/research/mag/mag.htm
Then remove the small DC current, and wait until NATE (natural ambient thermal energy) does its thing, disorder. Since the material is annealed with a net alignment matching the DC current, this is the magnetic materials lowest energy state. What is meant by "lowest energy state" is the ferromagnetic atoms are where they want to be. You could think of this as a pebble that's 10 feet off the ground. When the pebble is at 10 ft, it's in a higher energy state. When it's on the ground, it's at the lowest energy state, the ground state. So when NATE causes disorder, the magnetic atoms go to a higher energy state, meaning that NATE is converting thermal energy into potential energy, which is why the magnetic material would cool down.
The attached image is just an experiment. I did not do it yet, but if done correctly you should see a single avalanche when the switch is turned on, then when the current is removed you should see a reverse avalanche in the opposite polarity. The reverse avalanche could occur instantly or take hours or longer, depending on the type magnetic material. Also, for best results, the magnetic material should be 50% saturated, which could be difficult to set up. The wire could be circumferencially annealed by rapidly apply a lot of current where the wire is glowing red hot, then cooled down. Repeat until it's sufficiently circumferencially annealed.
PL
Edit: added pot to the circuit.
Edit: had the energy states backwards.
I got mine from Etrema products, a research division of Iowa State University for $20.00 Of course, the selection is a little sparse if one is only buying scrap pieces. I'd be all over the stuff if I could afford custom pieces. It is very brittle and quite difficult to shape, but it can be done.
The stuff is wild.
Materials Science is about to go postal on us all, I'm thinking....
TS
At $20 I'll buy some.
I'm all for advancing science ... well, with a few exceptions, such as -->
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_goo
PL
LOL! Or Ice9.....or GMOs....or Clothinanidin killing billions of bees...or Chemtrails being used partially for population control/reduction....Big pharma....Chinese Melamine....Psyop Cwhoreporate Media....or morally bankrupt politicians....Oops, all but the first on this list and who knows what else are already being done to death.
Peace,
TS
Quote from: PaulLowrance on December 07, 2008, 11:00:55 AM
I'm interested in knowing what "free energy" designs use wires made of magnetic materials, such as iron, steel, or even PM's. I'm more interested in the designs where the "free energy" may come from the magnetic wires.
I think the TPU is one, right? Any others?
Thanks,
PL
The guy that created Coral Castle was reported to have said " I have made lots more electricity with steal than I ever did with copper. " I believe that the magnetic fields are attracted to iron . ...in theory this attraction should increase the energy level a little ........ If I am right about this ......the ideal wire for OU motors and such might be a soft iron wire heavily plated with copper.( for lower resistance .)
gary
@ Res : that there is exactly why some inductors are coiled around a ferrite core.
placing the core 'inside' the wire itself would be WAY more efficient!! great idea
@ PL, those thermoelectric "CPU coolers" are almost perfectly reversable.
the power used to create a temperature difference is the same as the power produced when you sustain the same difference in temp on the two terminals.
in either case, you have to transport the heat energy away from the device.
heating: you must take away the cold air from the cold side
cooling: you must take the hot air from the hot side
generating with heat: you must take the heat away from the cold side
generating with cold: you must take the cold away from the hot side.
as long s these variables are maintained properly
then Power in = Power out with 2 identicle devices, one used for consumption, the other production.
minus applicable losses
these same type of modules are used to make TEG generators, in a ring 3inches tall, 1.5 in thick and about as big around as a basket ball, they fit around the Exhaust Stack on 18-wheeler trucks, and produce about 1KW continuous electricity which is used to power some of the electronic systems in the truck
Quote from: resonancemanThe guy that created Coral Castle was reported to have said " I have made lots more electricity with steal than I ever did with copper. "
Love it! I have to use that quote somewhere at my website and forum! Not only is the quote from a great mysterious man, but what he says is so true.
Quotethe ideal wire for OU motors and such might be a soft iron wire heavily plated with copper.( for lower resistance
According to my half-baked idea, I was thinking that best would be ultra thin layers of copper, iron, copper, iron, etc. Also, if the iron coercivity is too low, then there's not enough MCE energy. If the iron coercivity is high low, then it will take too long for thermal energy to reset the material during each cycle.
On top of that, finding the correct magnetic material is half the job. The magnetic material must be set just right; i.e., the iron cannot be fully degaussed or saturated.
PL
magnetite
Magnadoodle
lol
Hi all....I noticed the quote from Ed Leedskalnin was not quite right, so I've included the relevent passage below....
"I told you that the coil is a magnet during the time the currents are made.
now I will show you. Get a small paper box to go in between the prongs of the
U shape magnet, put iron filings in it. Wrap six-inch long soft iron wire with
paper. put the wire in box in iron filings, now put the box between the U
shape magnet prongs. Raise the wire up, then you will see filing strands
clinging to the insulated iron wire. Raise the wire up slowly, then the filing
strands will sag and fail, take the box out. put the wire in the filings
again, raise up and you will see that the wire is no magnet. but during the
time it was between the U shape magnet prongs it was a magnet. This shows that
during the time the coil moves through the U shape magnet the coil becomes a
magnet, but its function is double. Some individual North and South Pole
magnets run through the coil's wire crosswise, and some run through the coil's
wire lengthwise.
Maybe you think that it is not fair to use iron wire to demonstrate how
magnetic currents are made, but I can tell you that if I do not use iron core
in the coil I can make more of the magnetic currents with soft iron wire coil
than I can with copper wire coil, so you see it is perfectly good to use iron
wire to demonstrate how magnetic currents are made. You can do the same thing
with the copper wire in using iron filings, but only on a smaller scale."
BTW To do the test the U magnet needs to be bend up, prongs down, N pole prong in compass N, South pole prong compass S. (that's the way Ed had it)
The wire is put in the box with the filings pointing E/W......
This is also to demonstrate why there is zero current in the coil when it is in the middle of the U magnet....but that's another story.. ;D
Ed Leedskalnin more details, http://www3.sympatico.ca/slavek.krepelka/exper/magcur.htm (http://www3.sympatico.ca/slavek.krepelka/exper/magcur.htm)
here is explained his view on generating electricity
with soft steel wire ,http://www.code144.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=154 (http://www.code144.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=154)
http://jnaudin.free.fr/dragone/dragone.htm (http://jnaudin.free.fr/dragone/dragone.htm)
The magnet permits to keep the current in the coil and is pulse to activate the flow , I believe Ed used his flywheel to generate the pulse, coil can be also used .
Steve Mark's used in the TPU a "Super Cobalt 404 magnetic material" I think that kind of material is also known as Samarian Cobalt.
Copper is an enemy in the free energy science, Positive energy is the 2nd enemy.
Ed Leedskalnin said that he got more energy using iron wire, than using copper wire.
Quote from: resonanceman on December 08, 2008, 03:55:16 PM
The guy that created Coral Castle was reported to have said " I have made lots more electricity with steal than I ever did with copper. " I believe that the magnetic fields are attracted to iron . ...in theory this attraction should increase the energy level a little ........ If I am right about this ......the ideal wire for OU motors and such might be a soft iron wire heavily plated with copper.( for lower resistance .)
gary
Copper plating is not practical but your getting warmer.
According to my magnetic theory, which is based on conventional physics, the free ambient thermal energy is best captured from magnetic materials, and does not directly come from the materials such as copper. Also, to this day I see absolutely no method of capturing such energy directly from PM's (permanent magnets) with the exception of one that I am aware of, and that is Alnico. Although PM's are magnetic materials, their permeability is too low, with the exception of Alnico.
That does not mean a "free energy" machine should not included copper wires or PM's! IMO, copper is the affordable choice for a solid-state "free energy" magnetic machine.
People should check out Marcus Wagner's free energy machine, such as his version 6. He uses twin copper wires, and claims to have (had?) a self-running machine. Marcus has shown all of the details -->
http://greenselfreliantenergy.com/forum/index.php?board=30.0
PL
I think Magnetism means some kind of order or alineation. We know that order means energy creation and disorder or chaos means energy dissipation.
I think that kind of order is related with polarization or paramagnetism or something similar. When using common/hot/positive energy, getting energy from the vacuum is impossible. But maybe, if we use Cold/Negative energy, we can get energy from the magnetic fields.
Remeber that ALL is magnetic. Plastic is magnetic, wood is magnetic... but we can compare Ferromagnetism with organic magnetism. Maybe the alineation inside magnets produces a Big Magnet (field), but magnetic field in other materials is little because there is almost no order.
When the ferromagnetic atoms are aligned then there's no PE (potential energy). When they are in disorder, then there's a lot of PE. That's why magnetic material actually cools down when the applied magnetic field is removed, because it requires thermal energy to break the atomic magnetic alignments, which increases the disorder state. Such change in temperature is known as MCE (Magnetocaloric effect). All ferromagnetic materials experience MCE, but at room temperatures it's difficult to measure such changes in temp.
Here's an outline of my magnetic theory, which is based on conventional physics -->
http://energymover.googlepages.com
http://energymover.googlepages.com/research
Regards,
PL
What do you refer exactly when you say Potential Energy? I know the definition, but I don't know if we're saying the same.
The magnetocaloric remembers to me the Thermoelectric effect that anyone can see in a Peltier Module. Energy dissipation in form of heat and cold. I believe that cold side means ordering and hot side means dissordering. Since, all is magnetic... the MCE and the Thermoelectric effect can be very similar theories...
A good way to understand PE (potential energy) in magnetic material is to imagine two PM's separated from each other, both are on pins to allow them to rotate/swivel. If the PM's, on swivels, are left undisturbed, they will rotated such that they are attracting. So it would require some force to rotate either PM. When the PM's are left undisturbed, where they are rotated such that they are attracting, then there's zero PE. If you rotate both of the PM's so they repel each other, then there's maximum PE. If you let go of the repelling PM's, then they will quickly rotate so they magnetically align. As they are rotating, they are gaining KE (kinetic energy), as they convert PE to KE.
In real ferromagnetic magnetic material, thermal energy causes a certain amount of disorder, such that at any given moment in time there's a certain percentage of broken or semi-broken ferromagnetic bonds, which equates to PE.
PL
Tesla had a coil that used iron wire , the stubblefielf coil was made with iron wire
and Stan Meyers VIC was made with stainless steel.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6398.0;topicseen
see this post and watch the video
Quote from: PaulLowrance on December 27, 2008, 01:51:50 PM
A good way to understand PE (potential energy) in magnetic material is to imagine two PM's separated from each other, both are on pins to allow them to rotate/swivel. If the PM's, on swivels, are left undisturbed, they will rotated such that they are attracting. So it would require some force to rotate either PM. When the PM's are left undisturbed, where they are rotated such that they are attracting, then there's zero PE. If you rotate both of the PM's so they repel each other, then there's maximum PE. If you let go of the repelling PM's, then they will quickly rotate so they magnetically align. As they are rotating, they are gaining KE (kinetic energy), as they convert PE to KE.
In real ferromagnetic magnetic material, thermal energy causes a certain amount of disorder, such that at any given moment in time there's a certain percentage of broken or semi-broken ferromagnetic bonds, which equates to PE.
PL
we must also acknowledge, this PE, and KE changes in magnitude as the square of the inverse of distance between the 2 magnets.
each material has its own permeability, this means a certain maximum number of molecules, (each having the specific energy value of their molecular arrangement) which are able to allign in the magnetic field.
which is a direct relationship to the energy (electrical or magnetic) required to reach the magnetic satturation-point (max permeability) of the material. <-- this is the energy PUT INTO the magnetic material, and by current thermodynamic law, should be all the energy we are able to "extract" from the PM, minus all applicable losses.
PE and KE of a magnet, in the mathematical sense, is almost identlcle to that of a common Spring.
except that you can instantly strengthen or weaken that spring by moving the magnets closer or further away.
Quote from: PaulLowrance link=topic=6258.msg142651#msg142651
http://chaos.utexas.edu/research/mag/mag.htm
PL
Paul,
Correction. I am glad I chased it up:
http://chaos.ph.utexas.edu/research/mag/mag.html
Quote
When a slowly varying magnetic field is applied to a ferromagnet, the response is comprised of a complex series of abrupt jumps, or avalanches, in magnetization. These rapid changes in magnetization appear as voltage spikes in a pickup coil wrapped around the sample:
Look at the first graph.
Isn't this how the TPU works?
Of course in the case of TPU the ferromagnet is the soft iron wire.
No wonder it gets hot after 20 minutes.