The first order of business for freedom from fossil fuels is to produce synthetic fuels. Direct replacement fuels for fossil fuels. No CARBON please. Like hydrogen dissolved in a liquid carrier like water. We got atomic we got wind we got sun we got geothermal what we don't have is something to keep the frigging oil and natural gas down in the ground where it belongs. I'd pay 10.00 US a gallon and use it wisely if it helps to move this concept into reality. If it can't be done in a very timely manner like NOW simply outlaw fossil fuel burning all together and believe me it will get done. In the mean time the automotive people better start making electric engines to replace the archaic smog producers they got going now. Maybe somebody will have a job at the old transportation factories making mandated conversion engines and the mechanics will have something to do besides replacing oxygen sensors.
we dont have nearly enough energy. currently our demand is increasing faster than our supply. that';s why there are plans for nearly 1200 MW's of electrical generation to be installed in the U.S. over the next 5 years.
and in 10 years even that will be obsolete.
globally, we are doomed. more and more nations are becomming techonoglically capable, and will be providing their citizes with electricity. This will require even more generation.
Geothermal is not a long-term option. geothermal energy is not "renewable". it takes a LONG time for that heat to regenerate after it is diminished. Nuclear is not "clean". it produces many tons of hazardous waste every year. This must be stored safely.
Wind, Solar, and Wave energy are clean, AND renewable - but the technology is inefficient and expensive.
currently most of our electricity is produced by Coal fired plants.
almost ALL of our cars are ran on Oil.
if we got rid of both of those, only 1/32nd's of us would be able to drive, watch t.v., use our computers, or even turn on the lights....
to replace that with solar or wind would require MUCH more land-space then most of us are willing to give up.
wave-power is the only pheasable solution that we currently have, and noone seems to be willing to invest in that.
We need a new energy technology. plain and simple. Storage is not the problem. we have plenty of ways to store excess energy.: -- hydrogen, electrochemical, flywheels, compressed air,. ect.
what we need is excess energy TO store.. that, and only that will steer us away from fossil fuels.
when we have more energy than we can use, and electricity drops to 0.001 cents per KW/hr, electric cars will pop out of the woodwork.
I will share some (personal) "truisms" I have collected in my wanderings:
1. We have a surplus of believers in scarcity. What's we really need is people who know we live in an abundance.
2. Our entire lives have been programmed around the idea of scarcity, and that is simply not true. There is enough of everything, it's just not evenly distributed among everyone.
3. For as long as you have your head on your shoulders you live in an abundance because you can come up with all kinds of ideas.
4. If you have one idea and I have one idea we can both get richer if we shared those ideas between each other.
etc...
Bucky Fuller talked about abundance a lot, but how many people know about him. He is as obscure as Tesla is among "normal" people.
Why do you think that is, and who made sure of it? (this is just a rhetorical question, you don't need to reply to it) :)
Quote from: sm0ky2 on January 20, 2009, 09:03:56 PM
we dont have nearly enough energy. currently our demand is increasing faster than our supply. that';s why there are plans for nearly 1200 MW's of electrical generation to be installed in the U.S. over the next 5 years.
and in 10 years even that will be obsolete.
globally, we are doomed. more and more nations are becomming techonoglically capable, and will be providing their citizes with electricity. This will require even more generation.
Geothermal is not a long-term option. geothermal energy is not "renewable". it takes a LONG time for that heat to regenerate after it is diminished. Nuclear is not "clean". it produces many tons of hazardous waste every year. This must be stored safely.
Wind, Solar, and Wave energy are clean, AND renewable - but the technology is inefficient and expensive.
currently most of our electricity is produced by Coal fired plants.
almost ALL of our cars are ran on Oil.
if we got rid of both of those, only 1/32nd's of us would be able to drive, watch t.v., use our computers, or even turn on the lights....
to replace that with solar or wind would require MUCH more land-space then most of us are willing to give up.
wave-power is the only pheasable solution that we currently have, and noone seems to be willing to invest in that.
We need a new energy technology. plain and simple. Storage is not the problem. we have plenty of ways to store excess energy.: -- hydrogen, electrochemical, flywheels, compressed air,. ect.
what we need is excess energy TO store.. that, and only that will steer us away from fossil fuels.
when we have more energy than we can use, and electricity drops to 0.001 cents per KW/hr, electric cars will pop out of the woodwork.
I would agree, more energy is needed. But not just more energy, it needs to be a portable form of energy that doesn't need to be plugged in. Electric cars will not "pop out of the woodwork" until a better form of portable energy can replace the large bank of batteries that are used in electric cars. Also, car prices must become much more affordable again, like they once were in the 1960's and 70's. Once portable energy becomes available, it will eliminate the need for large banks of batteries that are used now and will reduce the large battery bank, down to a smaller battery buffer to absorb short term high current drain. The magnet motor is a likely future option to provide this needed portable power source.
There is plenty of deserts for solar arrays there is plenty of oceanthermal ocean currents neuclear fuel rods can be recycled windenergy up the gazoo plasma technology geothermal bubbling in yellowstone at the surface. There needs to be a standardized synthetic fuel that is transportable just like we have been transporting and storing for years. There also needs to be a new direction in what we do with energy. Manufacturing shit for rich people to show off to other rich people aint working and selling the general public some dream about homeownership and resurecting temples to oneself is another scam that needs to end. Industrialized nations really got to sit back and see what they are making. The chineese got sold on industrialization. Problem is the family farm isnt going to be there when the young man runs from his new slave job in the factory. Vital services like food clothing shelter heat and health care at an equitable level for all is the path of the future. Profit is dead. Capitolism is dead. We're all in the people business now like it or not.
Quote from: sparks on January 20, 2009, 07:44:27 PM
In the mean time the automotive people better start making electric engines to replace the archaic smog producers they got going now....
...and broadcast the energy to them using Tesla'a Patent 1,119,732 (Wardenclyffe Tower) ?
How difficult would this be, Sparks?
Paul.
I think Tesla was talking about creating a plasmasphere. Which really woud be kinda disruptive to most forms of matter. It's like the Tesla Howitzers where they use a lazer to create a plazma tube from gun to target and send emp pulses through the plazma. I think there might be huge problems with siting tesla towers. :) This isn't to say that a contained dually low temperature plasma wouldn't make an ideal high power transmission line. No voltage drop relative to the field so a kid could touch one standing in a bucket of water and not even know it.
The answer(s) are clearly solar and geothermal. The trick is figuring out how to efficiently collect and transfer that energy.
If only there were some way to beam solar energy collected in space, by satellites, down to the Earth's surface...
I love it!! everyone is accusing the previous generations of the wrong decisions based on exactally the same principals... Lol its like being in a school and having the preschoolers accuse the kindygarden kids of weakening the play equipment because it broke when they aere playing on it... LOL!!! you problem is not the amount of energy available or even how we generate it. These 2 problems will be solved as we NEED to solve them. As there is still oil coming in these don't NEED to be solved. You need to start lobbying for technology to become super efficient rather than more powerful. That has been our downfall for years. More power and more modcons on everything we buy. The biggest reason car manufacturers put R&D into certain areas is because these are the areas that people put money into. Nobody cared how much their car cost to run until about 2 years ago with the oil hike and even then it was only something for them to winge about it didn't really stop anyone from buying new cars that still only get 25-30 MPG... and you all get on here and moan about there not being any cars with good economy... As a society we just don't care until this changes why should companies put money into thing people don't really want??? they won't re-coup their money so it becomes a bad investment. Thus no flow. there are small funds set up that look into said research but that is more to improve over heads rather than anything else... You need to look at which models of everything that consume power are released and what are the big sellers... Everything from cars to trucks to fridges, washing machines all the way down to air-conditioners... Infact our world wide scales of efficientcy is a joke!!! A state of the art air-conditioner is only 1KW more efficient then one that is 10 years old... 1KW!!! what daes that mean... a 5KW split system air con bought today has the same power and does the same amount of cooling as a 6KW system in 1999 (you could proberly say as far back as 1995 if you wanted to) ooo but it has a remote control and exact temperature control as well as it runs 30% quieter... ZIPPY DOO!!!! it is peoples perception on what they want out of their belongings is what companies will make... Think about that before you all start accusing big business and the oil company conspiracy. I'm not saying that there is not something out there pushing us to take these choice but we are not lemmings...
Quote from: erickdt on January 21, 2009, 06:45:14 PM
If only there were some way to beam solar energy collected in space, by satellites, down to the Earth's surface...
in a giant Fiber-Optic Cable, down the center of the 'space elevator'
A space elevator type arrangement to a geo-stationary satellite is an interesting idea. It would be very technically challenging but well worth the effort in my view especially when you consider the fact that they say enough light energy from the sun reaches the Earth's surface every day to power all of humanities energy needs for the rest of our existence (as a species) on Earth.
Another interesting technology that could be used as a means to this end could be our developing understanding of quantum entanglement which allows for the "teleportation" of energy.
Corporations ain't gonna do shit unless their is profit (whatever that is) in it. These people are convinced pieces of paper with ink on them hold some value of some sort. Just the nature of the Beast. Problem at hand is that the corporations are running out of paper. They got bad paper (defaulted mortgages) they got bad plastic, they got worthless stock certificates, they got ceased properties mildewing and rotting away vacant they cant find anybody to slave away the rest of their lives maintaining for them. So who the hell is gonna implement some new energy collection and distribution system that there is no profit in implementing.
Most probably a government with a little more integrity than the Bush regime demonstrated. They impeach Clinton for getting some on the side an Bush sends in young men to die in Iraq so corporations can seize the countrys only way of staying alive. Jeesh. War on terror bullshit. Just some paranoia propoganda.
Maybe we need an inland sea. Pump some water into this inland sea from all sorts of solar arrays windmills whatever and let it flow back through the deserts for some aquaculture for food production (sun and water and plants are a good combo) A giant manmade waterfall out there in the desert where they really need the water and have plenty of sunshine to drive the pumps and desalination plants.
Something like that dead sea deal where you can almost walk on the salt water crystals.
Little Know Fact:
Currently in north america every night millions of millions of kw's of power are just wasted due to lack of consumption. machines are not easily shut down and started therefor they run all night.
We all need to do more for conservation before we can even think of trying to change to an alternative power supply.
with a small battery pack placed in every home to capture this nightly waste, We could start a nation wide conservation project that would ensure maximum partition by every home in the country. If you take the cost of just the first phase of projected power plants and start a Conservation Project we would have a surplus of energy without increasing our green house emissions. 1 charger/inverter priced at 400$ in bulk for project li if ke this 200-250$
4 batteries priced @ 200-300$ base models Bulk price @ 150-200$
1 remote monitor w/consumption info/battery charge 200$
total cost per home 1250.00$ per home
this free energy could quite possibly prevent black-out's since all homes now have battery power thus eliminating the promptness that downed power lines reducing risk to repairmen and residents of affected areas. Brown-outs would be a thing of the past All for a small price compared to the vast expansions predicted in electricity demand.
Not to mention this will be implemented as a energy conservation project but not reduce the current economics something greatly needed in this economic times.In time people will consume less energy as battery awareness is in there faces every day. As a person that makes a living producing oil and gas and a resident of earth I'm looking for realistic changes to happen. with a new electric car made today it would still take 20 years to get gas cars off of the streets so being save by the electric car is a pipe dream. The best thing about the simplicty of this plan implamenting it would be realisticlly a 1 year projcet with only minor expectantins of budjet overruns. As the government supplies the people with a Green solution to reducing stress and increasing to a surplus today's power grid. Anyway just a thought on where the money should go to ensure smooth transition out of this fossil fuel period and into a Greener was of life. Oh ya did i mention this is only step 1 to each house becoming solar/wind powered.
GOOD LUCK EVERYONE WITH FREE ENERGY CHALLENGE BUT UNTIL ITS SOLVED WE NEED SOLUTIONS PEOPLE WILL ACCEPT AND WILL AFFECT CHANGE TODAY SO KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK
Here's another proven source of "free energy": Geothermal. All you do is dig a deep hole and feed some steam pipes into it. Viola, free, enviromentally sustainable energy.
That's why the idiots at the dept. of the interior turned the hottest spot in America into a national park. Put up benches around a Geyser for people to look at a natural wonder of the world. For chisssake it's a river getting boiled off by a lava dome real close to giving off some thermal energy no one is gonna be able to handle. Don't want my rear end sitting on those benches when that pimple pops.
All this hand wringing about when is yellowstone gonna blow. Drill a hole down there and let the pressure off slow and controlled and get some energy out of it.
Drill alot of holes and alot of thermal conversion plants. Stop worrying about the natural flora and fauna because it isn't gonna make much difference when it's ashes up in the stratosphere. The usa dept of energy have got to be the most inept pencil pushers on the planet.
I agree w/ both gregr and crazy_ewok that efficiency and storage are 2 REALLY big things that can stretch our reserves,
1.) Quit designing as if it'll (power) never run out.
2.) Start building a better battery. We're still using 150yr. old technology for most batteries.
Power plants are always producing over demand to make sure they can meet demand and have room to ramp production to meet reasonable demand increase should it spike.
What if they had a 2 week "buffer" of stored electricity to draw upon (with capacity up to 3 weeks) and therefore could schedule production to meet the exact electricity need without the risk of not meeting demand?
To do that batteries have to become much smaller, lighter, and have a much greater storage capacity and charging efficiency than public technology has right now.
Once this obstacle is overcome the above idea might have a place and you start having much more compartmentalized electricity draws as more things will use batteries.
The former downfall of present days tech (size and weight) to include batteries a lot of devices that they would make sense in (cars, PC's, radios, cell phones and a lot of energy that is now wasted will actually be put to work (or a battery for a cell phone that lasts 1yr., like a watch battery).
Even with an over-unity device it would be beneficial as it could be the collection buffer that the consumer draws upon that is always being filled, even if it's not @ the rate of the temporary draw, it will compensate with time.
Geothermal is good as a battery, and the capacity is HUGE, but I still wonder what the draw of a century's use might do as we assume the core of our planet is molten from it's 1st formation and cooled to the present state it's in.
What if you hasten that with artificial draw? We already know that humans can have a marked effect on our environment with our present day evidence of the effects of energy production.
Just a way to think that our reliance and use of oil should teach us.
As to the battery, there are a few good threads here that are discussing some new approaches that I'm very interested in experimenting with.
P.S. The beanstalk (space elevator) idea is really cool as panels outside the atmosphere would have a constant production that atmospherics couldn't interfere with, but I think we have to conquer the geosynchronous satellite/ exact earth positioning a bit more before it'd be a possibility.
;)