Thread for the project by YT user TheRickoff from the U.S.
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheRickoff
The setup consists of a bicycle wheel built into a PVC pipe structure with square Neodymium magnets glued to the rim in groups.
The stator assembly is also made out of PVC and is movable sideways.
Per his request an image explaining my idea of how to time the stator movement using aluminum bars and a stator spring.
AZ
Hi AquariuZ,
Thanks for the diagram, now I see what you were suggesting. First, I'd like to point out that my rotor magnets are rectangular, not square, and that they are not glued to to bike wheel rim. They are simply held there by attraction due to the fact that the rim is chrome plated steel.
As to your suggestion, I suggest that you build a Pipe Dream apparatus and try it out. I may be wrong, but I think that any use of rods in such a manner as to knock the stator arm out of the way would not only be very noisy, but would also cause the rotor to slow down and grind to a halt because of that slapping action. Further, the idea is really not to push the stator arm away to avoid something, but to pivot it slightly so that the south of the stator is used at one end of the magnet group while the north is used at the other end. Thanks for the try, though. I appreciate your efforts.
Best regards,
Rick :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF2W2Si9d3c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF2W2Si9d3c)
Maybe a cam device?
Or another magnet mounted on a rotor arm above above the wheel that repels a magnet attached to the stator arm? less friction involved?
Nice solution AquariuZ, but I share Rick's view on this.
Even in the bars interact efficiently with the stator, they may not result in the most preffered position of the stator in relation to the rotor magnet groups at all times. The stator is only controlled through a short part of the cycle, it seems? It might work in a fixed RPM setup, when timed perfectly.
If Rick would be able to establish (which I'm sure he's already done) the preferred location of the stator in relation to each degree of rotor movement along one or two magnets groups, a belt/chain drive could be designed to closely match that. Round or even oval cogs connecting rotor and stator. A smooth, silent and efficient operation would be attained.
I believe Rick reported that moving the stator arm in vs. out oer a group goes naturally or requires overcoming over resistance.
By adding a second stator, and connecting it to the former one, or making it part of the the rotor-stator drive/timing mechanism, one stator would be moving in (overcoming resistance) while the other is moving out, the way the stator magnet wants to move by itself. The two might in part or completely cancel out, and net a low energy drain from the rotor in forcing the stators to always be in their optimal position over the passing magnet groups.
If moving the (connecting bar or linkage of the stator of the) magnets takes less energy than is added to the rotor through acceleration, the thing will run on its own.
Even if Rick's hand-assisted rotation was under unity, perhaps having two stator working together might already be closer to achieving this.
At higher rpm, I think the weight on the movin stator assembly will become a greater "jerking" factor, making at least 2x more cycles than the rotor itself.
Depending on the preferred stator movement, I have various ideas to design the timing mechanism, at least conceptually.
AZ
Thanks for starting this thread [and others]
Question: I see your design would be good for high torque low rpm
Do you think in magnets, the available power is the strength of the very first attraction and repulsion on the wheel?
Or as in Ricks design [which seems like it will always accelerate ] will its power be limited to this first pull and repulsion ?
Or are we looking at a magnetic turbine using the fields as fuel ?[which might have more potential energy than the first pull/repel]
Chet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF2W2Si9d3c
Don't see how it could work, the spring force required to keep the stator arm in the first position will negate rotation when the lever hits the aluminum bar. Rick seems to think the flywheel effect is an important factor, but have you seen what happens when neo magnets (any magnets, really) interact with each other? The wheel can seem to have momentum, yet will stop on a dime.
nyctuber
Quote;The wheel can seem to have momentum, yet will stop on a dime.end quote
That very statement seems to Imply potential being wasted by bad design
If one magnet can bring a rail or rotor[with many magnets] traveling at speed to a sudden Stop [which we all have seen]
Seems like a design issue [an understatement]
Chet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF2W2Si9d3c
Quote from: ramset on May 24, 2009, 10:08:03 AM
nyctuber
Quote;The wheel can seem to have momentum, yet will stop on a dime.end quote
That very statement seems to Imply potential being wasted by bad design
If one magnet can bring a rail or rotor[with many magnets] traveling at speed to a sudden Stop [which we all have seen]
Seems like a design issue [an understatement]
Chet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF2W2Si9d3c
I believe you're referring to an eddy brake. That's used on systems which actually generate torque. Rick's setup is getting all of it's input energy from manual movement of the arm. The spring and lever will cancel out the spin.
The tracking mechanism is obviously going to make sure the stator will never find itself in a position where the forces of the magnets result in anything but a desired effect.
An immediate stop of a quickly fast moving mass, by permanate magnet force (moving along each other zero psysical friction) alone, would be quite the invention. The railway companies would want to know about it, as would the military.
In video #16 it does seem that for the first few revolutions where Rick manages to get the timing right, he does indeed with very little effort get the wheel to spin up nicely. That said, a mountainbike with a climbing gear would also see you reaching 60rpm with but a quick flick of the wrist at the crank. How much effort goes into moving that stator, that's the big question.
I just can't wait to see how Rick and his replicators fare!
Quote from: Cloxxki on May 24, 2009, 10:25:01 AM
The tracking mechanism is obviously going to make sure the stator will never find itself in a position where the forces of the magnets result in anything but a desired effect.
An immediate stop of a quickly fast moving mass, by permanate magnet force (moving along each other zero psysical friction) alone, would be quite the invention. The railway companies would want to know about it, as would the military.
In video #16 it does seem that for the first few revolutions where Rick manages to get the timing right, he does indeed with very little effort get the wheel to spin up nicely. That said, a mountainbike with a climbing gear would also see you reaching 60rpm with but a quick flick of the wrist at the crank. How much effort goes into moving that stator, that's the big question.
I just can't wait to see how Rick and his replicators fare!
The spring is exerting force. It needs to exert enough force to keep the stator in the first position. In order to get it to the second position, they have devised a lever/ bar setup. This will require extracting energy from the rotational motion of the disc. The disc is not generating enough torque to do this. It can't work.
Nyctuber
Rick is taking advantage of attraction and repulsion ,using the wall as a kick
No springs [to my knowledge] and very small stator movement on a rail
Rick should NOT be underestimated in his knowledge of magnets [and many other fields]
Chet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF2W2Si9d3c
Quote from: ramset on May 24, 2009, 11:11:45 AM
Nyctuber
Rick is taking advantage of attraction and repulsion ,using the wall as a kick
No springs [to my knowledge] and very small stator movement on a rail
Rick should NOT be underestimated in his knowledge of magnets [and many other fields]
Chet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF2W2Si9d3c
Attraction and repulsion cancel each other out. There is no kick without external applied force. They plan on adding a spring and lever to take the place of his hand moving the stator arm. This will extract energy from the disk and stop rotation. Rick seems like a nice guy but the project makes me cringe.
Nyctuber
Believe me, I see your point
I just think Rick and others can design around this problem[fact?]
I think magnets have a lot more to teach us
Chet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF2W2Si9d3c
Quote from: ramset on May 24, 2009, 11:27:54 AM
Nyctuber
Believe me, I see your point
I just think Rick and others can design around this problem[fact?]
I think magnets have a lot more to teach us
Chet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF2W2Si9d3c
No, they cannot design around the problem. They would be designing around CoE. They want to extract force from nothing. Ain't gonna happen.
Nyctuber
I look at magnets and what we know,the same way I look at cavemen standing around a tar pit scratching their heads
Chet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF2W2Si9d3c
Quote from: ramset on May 24, 2009, 11:45:45 AM
Nyctuber
I look at magnets and what we know,the same way I look at cavemen standing around a tar pit scratching their heads
Chet
We understand every aspect of why Rick's setup can't work as shown, in regards to magnetic and physical forces.
If you want to look into aspects of magnets which are still being investigated, check out Spintronics.
nytuber
Quote; as shown
I haven't seem the complete design, But have every confidence its evolution will yield fruit
Chet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF2W2Si9d3c
Quote from: ramset on May 24, 2009, 12:57:36 PM
nytuber
Quote; as shown
I haven't seem the complete design, But have every confidence its evolution will yield fruit
It can't.
It's actually no different than this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCaKE1bKCjo
nytuber
no offense to member Big fat pothead
But Rick was born with a magnetic[not silver] spoon in his mouth and has seen things that tell him this is doable
Chet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF2W2Si9d3c
PS thanks for the link
Quote from: ramset on May 24, 2009, 01:11:11 PM
nytuber
no offense to member Big fat pothead
But Rick was born with a magnetic[not silver] spoon in his mouth and has seen things that tell him this is doable
Chet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF2W2Si9d3c
PS thanks for the link
I don't know what he could possibly have seen. It's a simple wheel with a stator arm. It never works without applied external force (ie: it never works). Springs and levers will not do it.
nytuber
Quote from Rick
. I have been interested in magnetics all my life, and I'm 64 now. My dad was a brilliant scientist who worked for a company named Magnetic Metals, and he showed me some really interesting stuff. He was always bringing different shapes and sizes of magnets home to show me, and I developed a fascination for magnetics at a very early age. My dad told me that it was possible to build a permanent magnet motor, and showed me a mobile that he had constructed. It worked, and it ran for a very long time - until the magnets lost their strength. That was 54 years ago, when I was just 10 years old, and my dad died 3 years later. There is so much more that I could have learned from him had he lived several more years.
This boy is going to get it done
Chet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF2W2Si9d3c
Quote from: ramset on May 24, 2009, 01:22:39 PM
nytuber
Quote from Rick
. I have been interested in magnetics all my life, and I'm 64 now. My dad was a brilliant scientist who worked for a company named Magnetic Metals, and he showed me some really interesting stuff. He was always bringing different shapes and sizes of magnets home to show me, and I developed a fascination for magnetics at a very early age. My dad told me that it was possible to build a permanent magnet motor, and showed me a mobile that he had constructed. It worked, and it ran for a very long time - until the magnets lost their strength. That was 54 years ago, when I was just 10 years old, and my dad died 3 years later. There is so much more that I could have learned from him had he lived several more years.
This boy is going to get it done
Chet
'MyLow'd has a nice ring to it, but 'RickOff'd' works too....
And nothing against Rick personally, but he seems to have recovered from some sort of head trauma/ brain surgery/injury.
Nyc
Why didn't you just bare your flag in the beginning?
Have a nice day
Chet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF2W2Si9d3c
Quote from: ramset on May 24, 2009, 01:36:25 PM
Nyc
Why didn't you just bare your flag in the beginning?
Have a nice day
Chet
Yeah I knew you'd write me off for pointing out the obvious about Rick's condition.
Albert Einstein couldn't get that setup to work.
See ya.
Wisdom comes with age
Sometimes age comes alone
Chet
Quote from: ramset on May 24, 2009, 01:40:25 PM
Wisdom comes with age
Sometimes age comes alone
Chet
That's a nice saying. Unfortunately, Rick's Pipe Dream was appropriately named.
Nyc
I don't know what horror will beset you if your prophesy comes true?
I do know the learning, is in the doing part
And Rick is doing ,like I have NEVER seen before
You think he has a condition?
Where can I catch /buy / acquire this?
I like his condition
No matter the outcome ,we will be better for Ricks condition
Chet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF2W2Si9d3c
Quote from: ramset on May 24, 2009, 01:53:41 PM
And Rick is doing ,like I have NEVER seen before
Then you will definitely learn something.
D.
nyc
Not nice !
Chet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF2W2Si9d3c
Quote from: ramset on May 24, 2009, 02:12:54 PM
nyc
Not nice !
I'm trying to help. Disconnect yourself from personal attachment to Rick, and look at what he's doing. That's all.
D.
nyc
Rick has shown a cheap way to put together ,step by step [like no other ,in my experience] a good test bed
Until he attains success [or not ] nothing is etched in stone [regarding his technique]
nyc are you from NYC ?
Chet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF2W2Si9d3c
Quote from: ramset on May 24, 2009, 02:37:32 PM
nyc
Rick has shown a cheap way to put together ,step by step [like no other ,in my experience] a good test bed
Until he attains success [or not ] nothing is etched in stone [regarding his technique]
nyc are you from NYC ?
Chet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF2W2Si9d3c
Yep NYC checkin' in.
Nyc
Nice !!
Sometimes I feel like the only guy here from NYC
Regarding Rick [from Maine] time will tell [not much time ]
Chet
Quote from: ramset on May 24, 2009, 02:58:13 PM
Nyc
Nice !!
Sometimes I feel like the only guy here from NYC
Regarding Rick [from Maine] time will tell [not much time ]
Chet
Fugeddaboudit ;D
Nyc
Fugeddaboudit ;D
Yeah, your from NYC
Chet
PS What is perceived as a" condition" to city folk ,Is a lifestyle up in Maine [very sincere and laid back]
Quote from: ramset on May 24, 2009, 06:48:00 PM
Nyc
Fugeddaboudit ;D
Yeah, your from NYC
Chet
PS What is perceived as a" condition" to city folk ,Is a lifestyle up in Maine [very sincere and laid back]
I'm pretty sure I remember Rick from a few years ago, and I seem to recall him talking about rehabilitating himself from a brain injury or something similar.
Nyc
I seem to remember Rick posting in the TPU threads
could be wrong ,that guy had more post's [a very smart guy!!]
And I Do remember somebody recovering,... vaguely
I have family up in Maine,I'm gonna PM Rick and see if he would accept some help
Chet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF2W2Si9d3c
Quote from: nyctuber on May 24, 2009, 06:55:03 PM
I'm pretty sure I remember Rick from a few years ago, and I seem to recall him talking about rehabilitating himself from a brain injury or something similar.
You don't remember me from diddley squat, I've never had a brain injury, and I'm not going to be using a spring or lever with my build. Honestly, I don't know where you come up with all this crap, but you're certainly full of it.
Quote from: rickoff on May 25, 2009, 09:56:22 AM
You don't remember me from diddley squat, I've never had a brain injury, and I'm not going to be using a spring or lever with my build. Honestly, I don't know where you come up with all this crap, but you're certainly full of it.
Then it was someone else. Wasn't meant as an insult.
Quote from: ramset on May 24, 2009, 07:06:26 PM
Nyc
I seem to remember Rick posting in the TPU threads
could be wrong ,that guy had more post's [a very smart guy!!]
And I Do remember somebody recovering,... vaguely
I have family up in Maine,I'm gonna PM Rick and see if he would accept some help
Chet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF2W2Si9d3c
Chet, I think you need a new forum. The only thing offered here is stupidity and extreme negativity. Sure, if you're going to be up this way you are welcome to drop by, check out my machine, and see firsthand exactly what's going on. I'll be adding my flywheel later today, and will try to post a video sometime tonight or tomorrow showing the spin test as a comparison to video 16. The builder's pdf file is ready, and I'll be sending you a link to download that. I'd appreciate it if you don't make the pdf available to any of the unworthy pencil necks here who continually spout off negative comments while having no idea whatsoever about the topic of discussion. Blanket statements such as "it can't work," or "attraction and repulsion forces cancel each other out" have no merit in the discussion of the working principles of my device. My methods take full advantage of both the attraction forces and the repulsion forces. They do not cancel each other out. Instead, they work additively. My machine self-starts from a standstill, and quickly accellerates the first magnet group using attraction. At the tail end of the group the stator is almost effortlessly moved just a small amount to repel the rotor magnet group into further accelleration. These two accellerative forces, seen as each rotor group nears and then passes by the stator, are strong and continuous as long as timing is maintained. It should be obvious that such forces are capable of doing a certain amount of work besides spinning the wheel. I can borrow some of that energy and apply it towards moving the stator. I can also tap the inertial energy stored in my flywheel, which will be substantial. I concede it is possible that I may fail in my first attempt at obtaining proper MOSTAT travel utilizing my tracking system, and without causing drag that will eventually slow the wheel to a standstill, but so what? Would that mean that I must give up? I don't think so!
Best regards to you,
Rick :)
Quote from: nyctuber on May 25, 2009, 10:13:36 AM
Then it was someone else. Wasn't meant as an insult.
Can you stop deforming Rick´s character and ridiculing his setup please?
This thread is for serous comments, not vile speculation.
Your comments are driving serious people away. Do it again, and I will report you to the moderators of this forum with a request to have your comments removed.
Please note I am asking nicely.
AZ
Quote from: rickoff on May 25, 2009, 10:40:27 AM
Chet, I think you need a new forum. The only thing offered here is stupidity and extreme negativity. Sure, if you're going to be up this way you are welcome to drop by, check out my machine, and see firsthand exactly what's going on. I'll be adding my flywheel later today, and will try to post a video sometime tonight or tomorrow showing the spin test as a comparison to video 16. The builder's pdf file is ready, and I'll be sending you a link to download that. I'd appreciate it if you don't make the pdf available to any of the unworthy pencil necks here who continually spout off negative comments while having no idea whatsoever about the topic of discussion. Blanket statements such as "it can't work," or "attraction and repulsion forces cancel each other out" have no merit in the discussion of the working principles of my device. My methods take full advantage of both the attraction forces and the repulsion forces. They do not cancel each other out. Instead, they work additively. My machine self-starts from a standstill, and quickly accellerates the first magnet group using attraction. At the tail end of the group the stator is almost effortlessly moved just a small amount to repel the rotor magnet group into further accelleration. These two accellerative forces, seen as each rotor group nears and then passes by the stator, are strong and continuous as long as timing is maintained. It should be obvious that such forces are capable of doing a certain amount of work besides spinning the wheel. I can borrow some of that energy and apply it towards moving the stator. I can also tap the inertial energy stored in my flywheel, which will be substantial. I concede it is possible that I may fail in my first attempt at obtaining proper MOSTAT travel utilizing my tracking system, and without causing drag that will eventually slow the wheel to a standstill, but so what? Would that mean that I must give up? I don't think so!
Best regards to you,
Rick :)
Hi Rick, please do not take notice of idiots like nyctuber.
There are a lot of serious testers and researchers in here.
I for one love what you are doing...
All the best,
AZ
Yep, Pull is bigger then repulsion.
http://www.magnetsales.com/Design/Calc_filles/PullAndPushBetween2RectMagnets.asp
Rick, could you please perform and post some simple control experiments with your rig?
Yours is really easy to test properly. All you have to do is to figure out a system that is repeatable to bring your wheel from the "valley" into the starting position.
There are at least 2 ways to do this: 1) use a weight of just enough weight, and a string wrapped around the axle or periphery of the wheel, as I have shown in some of my testing vids, or 2) run the wheel up to a known measured rpm; and in both cases time the rundown or count the turns or provide some objective measurement of performance.
Then compare the performance of your wheel, WITH and WITHOUT the stator (s) mounted. This procedure will tell you if your wheel is really "working" in any sense that matters.
I'm asking you nicely, to perform the very most basic experiment. It might take you all of half an hour to perform 5 rundowns in each condition.
I'll even offer to pay you your regular salary or wage rate, for the time it takes for you to set up and perform this set of experiments, because I know that one can't expect to get something for nothing.
Sincerely,
--TK
Quote from: nyctuber on May 25, 2009, 10:13:36 AM
Then it was someone else. Wasn't meant as an insult.
Yes, what you have been spouting was definitely meant as an insult. For example - comparing me, and my work, to "BIG Fat Pothead." I'm not amused, and I don't think that any other serious and knowledgeable researcher would be either. If you folks want to have a meaningful forum then you need to open your minds to new ideas and possibilities. Don't be so quick to condemn people or their ideas. Step back a moment and see if maybe you can learn something from what is being discussed. There's no way that you can persuade me to believe that my attempts are futile, and why would you even hope that they will be? Aren't all of you folks here in a search for free energy? And what are you doing to move that search forwards? Blatant and unbridled negativity, and ridicule of others, won't get you there. If you want to prove that this device will not do what I say and show that it will then you must build it to prove me wrong. Just remember that when you spout off a bunch of nonsense it will most surely come back around to make you look rather foolish. So choose your words carefully, be polite, and be certain that what you state is factual.
Rick
Quote from: AquariuZ on May 25, 2009, 10:46:10 AM
Hi Rick, please do not take notice of idiots like nyctuber.
There are a lot of serious testers and researchers in here.
I for one love what you are doing...
All the best,
AZ
And please make note of clowns like AquariusZ who will harp on an observation about physical health, and ignore the fact that Rick is making a simple magnet wheel and attempting to extract enough rotational energy to propel it past the sticky point. One would think Rick would lay out a solution to this crucial factor from the start, but he hasn't.
Quote from: rickoff on May 25, 2009, 11:09:15 AM
Yes, what you have been spouting was definitely meant as an insult. For example - comparing me, and my work, to "BIG Fat Pothead." I'm not amused, and I don't think that any other serious and knowledgeable researcher would be either. If you folks want to have a meaningful forum then you need to open your minds to new ideas and possibilities. Don't be so quick to condemn people or their ideas. Step back a moment and see if maybe you can learn something from what is being discussed. There's no way that you can persuade me to believe that my attempts are futile, and why would you even hope that they will be? Aren't all of you folks here in a search for free energy? And what are you doing to move that search forwards? Blatant and unbridled negativity, and ridicule of others, won't get you there. If you want to prove that this device will not do what I say and show that it will then you must build it to prove me wrong. Just remember that when you spout off a bunch of nonsense it will most surely come back around to make you look rather foolish. So choose your words carefully, be polite, and be certain that what you state is factual.
Rick
No, it was not an insult. Big fat pothead is a goofball, and was the first video i'd seen regarding a simple magnet wheel. My point is that I see no difference. I'm not condemning you, I just don't see how your wheel is any different than a ring of magnets and a hand movement stator setup. You will have to extract the energy from somewhere to move the stator, and it's not coming from the flywheel effect, and you will need to overcome CoE to do it from every wheel I've ever seen.
Why are inventors/tinkerers so sensitive. You do realize you're attempting that has been shown to be impossible, and that the world is full of scammers, so please expect a little critical analysis and don't take it personally.
Rick
I know your VERY busy,[an absolute understatement]
And I also know there is no stopping till success [Thats why I offer my assistance]
I will Help in anyway [honey do list 'picking up supplies,build assist etc...] so you have the time for this very consuming project
I haven't started my replication yet due to a 40 day 7/12 work stint ,hopefully can go home wednesday and start replicating your design
Chet
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=TheRickoff&view=videos
Quote from: AquariuZ on May 25, 2009, 10:44:09 AM
Can you stop deforming Rick´s character and ridiculing his setup please?
This thread is for serous comments, not vile speculation.
Your comments are driving serious people away. Do it again, and I will report you to the moderators of this forum with a request to have your comments removed.
Please note I am asking nicely.
AZ
I believe you mean 'defaming.'
Rick is making a simple magnet wheel, and you people are going nuts over it. The stator arm will need to extract more energy to change positions than is available from the rotating disk. Please show me where I'm wrong, I'd love to know.
Rick said:
"If you folks want to have a meaningful forum then you need to open your minds to new ideas and possibilities. Don't be so quick to condemn people or their ideas. Step back a moment and see if maybe you can learn something from what is being discussed. There's no way that you can persuade me to believe that my attempts are futile, and why would you even hope that they will be?"
In other words, "My mind's made up, don't bother me with facts."
And here I thought he wanted to actually have a scientific discussion on a meaningful forum. Which is why I suggested an easy and objective control experiment to see if Rick's stators REALLY are working or not.
OOps, My bad.
:'(
EDIT to add:
Rick also said,
"If you want to prove that this device will not do what I say and show that it will then you must build it to prove me wrong. "
This is also not true. If Rick would only perform actual experiments and collect data with an open mind, he would very easily be able to prove it himself.
A hint to nyctuber : "90 degrees".
Better support a doer like Rick, and kindly ask him to enlighten you rather than dismissing a setup once the M word has been used. You are not helping the cause of this website. You are turning science into interpersonal conflict, be it intensionally or not.
Rick is doing something different alright. Your problem seems to be with his selfassuredness of the result, which is near. I'm seeing what rick is doing, and wonder how it could possibly fail. Perhaps you could enlighten me?
Let's throw this back on topic, and be friendly to those who are smarter or more pro-active than us?
Quote from: Cloxxki on May 25, 2009, 11:29:54 AM
A hint to nyctuber : "90 degrees".
Better support a doer like Rick, and kindly ask him to enlighten you rather than dismissing a setup once the M word has been used. You are not helping the cause of this website. You are turning science into interpersonal conflict, be it intensionally or not.
Rick is doing something different alright. Your problem seems to be with his selfassuredness of the result, which is near. I'm seeing what rick is doing, and wonder how it could possibly fail. Perhaps you could enlighten me?
Let's throw this back on topic, and be friendly to those who are smarter or more pro-active than us?
By '90 degrees' i suppose you think Rick will manage to get that ever elusive power spike from a simple wheel rimmed with magnets. If you are wondering how it could possibly fail, I suggest you watch his videos and find out.
There is no interpersonal conflict, I have not said one unkind word about Rick. I did wonder about his mental state, thinking a simple magnet wheel will work. That's called critical analysis based on watching someone do somewhing which cannot work but thinking it will.
Try to stay objective and to not get emotionally attached to the inventor it's the only way to fly.
Cloxxki said that Rick is doing "something different".
How different? What's unusual or different about using a moving, externally powered, stator to pump up the wheel? I can show you at least a dozen YT vids from a dozen different workers doing the same thing, with different geometry.
And they are all doing exactly what I show here: the autokinetic magnet motor effect.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXpEqoDJDbM
Secure that stator to a post, or hook it up to your wheel-driven linkage, and the wheel will grind to a quick stop.
There is nothing whatsoever new or different in what Rick is showing, except perhaps the PVC frame.
Quote from: Cloxxki on May 25, 2009, 11:29:54 AM
(snip) You are turning science into interpersonal conflict, be it intensionally or not.(snip)(sic)
What has Rick's project got to do with Science? Science is a process, one feature of which is the attempt to DISCONFIRM an hypothesis by using correctly designed control experiments. Only when the researcher FAILS TO DISPROVE his hypothesis (that the magnet stators are helping rather than hurting, for example) is he in a position to state a positive finding.
This procedure (the Scientific Method) is not being followed in Rick's research program.
So what's the matter now? Is Rickoff doing it "too properly" for some peoples' tastes? He's making a mockery of your mockeries eh, lol? His very existence threatens yours somehow?
Because attempting to backhandedly demean and deride someone simply for producing a well conceived and carried out project, is disgusting and very suspicious behavior that would get you banned in most other forums.
"He's showing everyone how to do it RIGHT! OMG he must pay for that!"
WHO ARE YOU PEOPLE to think you can just dis someone for the hell of it?
...AND WHAT ARE YOUR MOTIVES FOR DOING SO?
You want someone to attack just for the hell of it?
I'm your Huckleberry.
Just don't bring a knife to a gun fight, and remember to wear a raincoat before attempting to piss up a rope.
"Are you feeling lucky, punk?"
".... Want a shot at the Title?"
So you guys had better watch out, lol... I've got more cliches lined up and i'm not afraid to use them!!
We can turn this forum the rest of the way into something that resembles a teen gaming forum with the adult moderators on vacation....
Or we can move ahead and get things done; and insist that people treat others with the respect their work has clearly shown they deserve.
"Yeah, i'm talkin' to you... Are you talkin' to me?"
Hehehe couldn't resist that one ;)
Here's a news flash for all the Professional Bozos out there: No one is going to be intimidated by you losers into not replicating, posting, or coming forward with projects. Your attempts are frankly pathetic; and the harder you try, the more obvious and absurd it all looks. Your "Happy Time" here is over. So why don't you just go back to the political forums and try to convince others that international bankers are really nice guys when you get to know them, lol.
But we expect you'll stick around and try anyway.
Bounty Hunter to Clint: "A man's gotta make a livin' somehow these days..."
Clint: "Diein' ain't much of a livin', boy." ;)
Of course Clint then shot the guy... And no actual bullets will be used here. But there are several types of "death" to worry about, eh? Like getting fired from your sh*tty shilling job for "gross incompetence" hehehe.
:) :) :) :) :)
_____________________________________________________
@Rickoff: Don't waste your time here, m8 . You certainly don't need this, nor anyone to defend you; but we do need YOU and your excellent project to proceed on course ;)
Quote from: TinselKoala on May 25, 2009, 11:53:51 AM
What has Rick's project got to do with Science? Science is a process, one feature of which is the attempt to DISCONFIRM an hypothesis by using correctly designed control experiments. Only when the researcher FAILS TO DISPROVE his hypothesis (that the magnet stators are helping rather than hurting, for example) is he in a position to state a positive finding.
This procedure (the Scientific Method) is not being followed in Rick's research program.
Phase 1: Collect Underpants
Phase 2: ?
Phase 3: Profit!
"Just don't bring a knife to a gun fight"
Now, where have I heard that before?
Oh, yeah, I remember now. It was one of Archer (spit on the floor) Quinn's favorite rebukes to people who wanted him to prove his contentions scientifically.
Quote from: jibbguy on May 25, 2009, 11:54:55 AM
So what's the matter now? Is Rickoff doing it "too properly" for some peoples' tastes? He's making a mockery of your mockeries eh, lol? His very existence threatens yours somehow?
Because attempting to backhandedly demean and deride someone simply for producing a well conceived and carried out project, is disgusting and very suspicious behavior that would get you banned in most other forums.
"He's showing everyone how to do it RIGHT! OMG he must pay for that!"
WHO ARE YOU PEOPLE to think you can just dis someone for the hell of it?
...AND WHAT ARE YOUR MOTIVES FOR DOING SO?
You want someone to attack just for the hell of it?
I'm your Huckleberry.
Just don't bring a knife to a gun fight, and remember to wear a raincoat before attempting to piss up a rope.
"Are you feeling lucky, punk?"
".... Want a shot at the Title?"
So you guys had better watch out, lol... I've got more cliches lined up and i'm not afraid to use them!!
We can turn this forum the rest of the way into something that resembles a teen gaming forum with the adult moderators on vacation....
Or we can move ahead and get things done; and insist that people treat others with the respect their work has clearly shown they deserve.
"Yeah, i'm talkin' to you... Are you talkin' to me?"
Hehehe couldn't resist that one ;)
Here's a news flash for all the Professional Bozos out there: No one is going to be intimidated by you losers into not replicating, posting, or coming forward with projects. Your attempts are frankly pathetic; and the harder you try, the more obvious and absurd it all looks. Your "Happy Time" here is over. So why don't you just go back to the political forums and try to convince others that international bankers are really nice guys when you get to know them, lol.
But we expect you'll stick around and try anyway.
Bounty Hunter to Clint: "A man's gotta make a livin' somehow these days..."
Clint: "Diein' ain't much of a livin', boy." ;)
Of course Clint then shot the guy... And no actual bullets will be used here. But there are several types of "death" to worry about, eh? Like getting fired from your sh*tty shilling job for "gross incompetence" hehehe.
:) :) :) :) :)
_____________________________________________________
@Rickoff: Don't waste your time here, m8 . You certainly don't need this, nor anyone to defend you; but we do need YOU and your excellent project to proceed on course ;)
The problem is that he is not doing it properly at all.
Have you people learned NOTHING from Mylow?
Please give me ONE valid reason why Rick's setup could possibly work.
Quote from: TinselKoala on May 25, 2009, 11:05:24 AM
Rick, could you please perform and post some simple control experiments with your rig?
Yours is really easy to test properly. All you have to do is to figure out a system that is repeatable to bring your wheel from the "valley" into the starting position.
There are at least 2 ways to do this: 1) use a weight of just enough weight, and a string wrapped around the axle or periphery of the wheel, as I have shown in some of my testing vids, or 2) run the wheel up to a known measured rpm; and in both cases time the rundown or count the turns or provide some objective measurement of performance.
Then compare the performance of your wheel, WITH and WITHOUT the stator (s) mounted. This procedure will tell you if your wheel is really "working" in any sense that matters.
I'm asking you nicely, to perform the very most basic experiment. It might take you all of half an hour to perform 5 rundowns in each condition.
I'll even offer to pay you your regular salary or wage rate, for the time it takes for you to set up and perform this set of experiments, because I know that one can't expect to get something for nothing.
Sincerely,
--TK
I don't want or need your money. I'd be glad to perform more tests, and already have several planned.
You'll have to be a bit more specific as to what you are defining. What "valley," and which "starting point" are you referring to? And how could I possibly demonstrate the "performance" of the wheel without the stator mounted? The wheel is surely not going to perform on its own.
No tests are going to prove much of anything until I complete my timing track, as that is the whole objective of getting this to work at maximum efficiency. Testing my ability to manually time the stator movement won't yield any useful data, since it is impossible for me to accurately move the stator after just a few seconds of operation. As soon as the spinning quickens, everything becomes a blur to me and I cannot visually distinguish the timing points, so have to quit. Still, it does demonstrate that this method produces quick and poweful accelleration. I think that the flywheel test, which I hope to do this evening, should tell us quite a bit when compared to the output in video 16. I'm also going to try some video playback in slow motion to get a better idea of exactly how I want to lay my track out. I will leave just a single magnet group on the wheel, and start from a dead stop with attraction at the front end and moving the stator for repulsion at the tail end. As soon as the group passes by the stator, I will move the stator arm out of the way and wait for the wheel to run down to a stop. The entire movement, from dead start to stop, will be timed. After doing numerous such tests while videotaping, I will go back to the sequence that produced the best results (longest duration) and view that video segment in slow motion to determine the exact stator movement that needs to be reproduced. And then I will know exactly how to lay down my monorail track. Tests such as this are really the only important ones to be considered at this time. After the timing system is completed I will perform any number of tests to your specifications, and perhaps if Chet comes up then he can observe the tests and also lend a hand. It was really difficult, in video 16 to attempt maintaining timing with one hand while taking a tachometer reading with the other hand, so an extra set of hands would definitely come in handy. I'd aadvise you to carefully review videos 15 and 16, and watch the method I am using to provide rotation. Then think about tests which would pertain to this mode of operation and let me know what you come up with.
Best regards,
Rick :)
Quote from: jibbguy on May 25, 2009, 11:54:55 AM
@Rickoff: Don't waste your time here, m8 . You certainly don't need this, nor anyone to defend you; but we do need YOU and your excellent project to proceed on course ;)
Until there is decent moderation in here, I will have to agree.
I might just start a forum of my own just for the heck of it.
AZ
Quote from: AquariuZ on May 25, 2009, 12:21:32 PM
Until there is decent moderation in here, I will have to agree.
I might just start a forum of my own just for the heck of it.
AZ
www.nocriticismallowed.org?
Simplest tracking mechanism I can think of is a wheel on the rotor axle. A pin sitting near its outer diameter, parallel to the axle. On the pin is bearing, fitted inside the end of a rod. The beginning of the rod is again on a bearing, atached to the stator arm.
This I think would work already with 2 magnet groups. Albeit perhaps fast from perfectly. If you'd use a "doubler" like 2 bicycle cogs, 32 tooth on the rotor and 16 tooth on the intermediated, you'd get the required frequency right there. At that point, you'd better buy a rear bicycle wheel though, makes attaching the 32 tooth sprocket a breeze. The 16t ones are especially cheap and efficient, I could offer part numbers (bikes used to be my thing). The 16t cog is well big enough in terms of "throw" towards the stator arm.
Perhaps it's all been tried before, but I've then not been able to find a precedent. I commend Rick for his coming out with these videos before he's done, he obviously doesn't need much of any help, and is wasting time on the critics while he could be proving his point, in a video of a working machine.
Let's just hope Rick is right, and wait for that moment than to wager on it. His methods will be a great example for anyone coming after him. To me, it's looking promising, much more than Mylow's setup ever was.
Nice try on this one, yet the timing and input energy from the hand is the why of what has been shown.
Again it comes down to the how of correcting this problem.
So it is input energy to drive the wheel, as well as some way to time such external energy to make it work.
Well so far it is using the hand as a solenoid to push pull the wheel.
Strange how folks do not understand.
They think they are just timing it, instead of supplying the input energy that is driving the wheel.
Rick It will be interesting to see if you can devise a way to over come this. You are now to the point in this were folks say it becomes imposible to do by just magnets.
So far it has not been overcome.
Good luck.
Quote from: rickoff on May 25, 2009, 11:59:32 AM
I don't want or need your money. I'd be glad to perform more tests, and already have several planned.
You'll have to be a bit more specific as to what you are defining. What "valley," and which "starting point" are you referring to? And how could I possibly demonstrate the "performance" of the wheel without the stator mounted? The wheel is surely not going to perform on its own.
No tests are going to prove much of anything until I complete my timing track, as that is the whole objective of getting this to work at maximum efficiency. Testing my ability to manually time the stator movement won't yield any useful data, since it is impossible for me to accurately move the stator after just a few seconds of operation. As soon as the spinning quickens, everything becomes a blur to me and I cannot visually distinguish the timing points, so have to quit. Still, it does demonstrate that this method produces quick and poweful accelleration. I think that the flywheel test, which I hope to do this evening, should tell us quite a bit when compared to the output in video 16. I'm also going to try some video playback in slow motion to get a better idea of exactly how I want to lay my track out. I will leave just a single magnet group on the wheel, and start from a dead stop with attraction at the front end and moving the stator for repulsion at the tail end. As soon as the group passes by the stator, I will move the stator arm out of the way and wait for the wheel to run down to a stop. The entire movement, from dead start to stop, will be timed. After doing numerous such tests while videotaping, I will go back to the sequence that produced the best results (longest duration) and view that video segment in slow motion to determine the exact stator movement that needs to be reproduced. And then I will know exactly how to lay down my monorail track. Tests such as this are really the only important ones to be considered at this time. After the timing system is completed I will perform any number of tests to your specifications, and perhaps if Chet comes up then he can observe the tests and also lend a hand. It was really difficult, in video 16 to attempt maintaining timing with one hand while taking a tachometer reading with the other hand, so an extra set of hands would definitely come in handy. I'd aadvise you to carefully review videos 15 and 16, and watch the method I am using to provide rotation. Then think about tests which would pertain to this mode of operation and let me know what you come up with.
Best regards,
Rick :)
"The wheel is surely not going to perform on its own."
Actually, that's quite correct.
Rick, how are your stator movements in any material way different from what I am illustrating in the Minato Effect video (the autokinetic magnet motor effect)?
(feel free to skip ahead and start at 3:00 where the action begins.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXpEqoDJDbM
At some point you will have a linkage worked out and a timing system that will "time" as you say your stator movement. At that point you will need to compare rundown times as I have tried to show you, in order to "tune" your timing system--you don't really think it will work the very first time, do you?
So I will here and now make this prediction in front of Allah and everybody: Your device will "run" better with the timing device and stator disengaged and fixed in a motionless position, than it will with all parts operational and "timed" to your desired specification. Of course I will be happy to see you prove me wrong.
Best regards,
TK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4bYfCiZioY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oc-Zr0TEbAU
(Sorry, EDIT to add: Since you are supplying energy to the system by moving the stator mount, even in the initial tests that you have described, the proper control condition for comparison is a bit harder to set up. But I am sure you are up to it. Even the tests you describe should give you some useful information.)
TK
Nice tunes
How come your the only one aloud to play?
You have more toys than anybody [even stuffed ones]!!
Who knows what this nice test bed will evolve into [It definitely ain't gonna break the bank]
Rick is Top ,Top shelf people with lots of smarts
Chet
Anyway back to work for me
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=TheRickoff&view=videos
Quote from: ramset on May 25, 2009, 04:54:46 PM
TK
Nice tunes
How come your the only one aloud to play?
You have more toys than anybody [even stuffed ones]!!
Who knows what this nice test bed will evolve into [It definitely ain't gonna break the bank]
Rick is Top ,Top shelf people with lots of smarts
Chet
Anyway back to work for me
Rick's doing great but there are some pitfalls, and since he looks like he thinks his design is new, I just thot I'd tell him what a lot of other people already have found out.
Ricks setup kinda reminded me of this (old) video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_43fb2Kf3M
notice the springs on the stator? :)
Quote from: Lakes on May 25, 2009, 07:38:29 PM
Ricks setup kinda reminded me of this (old) video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_43fb2Kf3M
notice the springs on the stator? :)
I don't know why you say that, Lakes. My setup doesn't even faintly resemble this, and my machine hasn't, doesn't, and will not be using springs of any kind. The only thing you might say is similar is that he is moving his stator magnet. By the way, he moves it much farther than I need to move mine, and he can't even continue rotating in one direction. Very feeble, I'd say, but I'll let you decide that.
Oh, my flywheel is now mounted, and I will be doing some tests later today. Right now I need to get some sleep, as I've been up all night again.
Here's a link to a photo of the mounted flywheel:
http://q6k2yq.blu.livefilestore.com/y1poZ1dUnqnCSGQcegRGHlqYlF8nWxo733p-6-NdRKV29BeSrkhAd7qGV10Ci2AU3eVtZoMbW5KRDDmJkYcoyjSEw/Pipe%20Dream%20Flywheel%20033.JPG (http://q6k2yq.blu.livefilestore.com/y1poZ1dUnqnCSGQcegRGHlqYlF8nWxo733p-6-NdRKV29BeSrkhAd7qGV10Ci2AU3eVtZoMbW5KRDDmJkYcoyjSEw/Pipe%20Dream%20Flywheel%20033.JPG)
Note: After the photo appears, click the image to show it larger and with best resolution.
Best regards to you,
Rick :)
Rick
I look at your test bed [vertical in this pic]
ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL a privilege to see
The genius of this simple cheap design and all the possibilities jumps right out of the picture
You are an Inspiration
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=TheRickoff&view=videos
Chet
http://q6k2yq.blu.livefilestore.com/y1poZ1dUnqnCSGQcegRGHlqYlF8nWxo733p-6-NdRKV29BeSrkhAd7qGV10Ci2AU3eVtZoMbW5KRDDmJkYcoyjSEw/Pipe%20Dream%20Flywheel%20033.JPG
Note: After the photo appears, click the image to show it larger and with best resolution.
Best regards to you,
Rick :)
Quote from: rickoff on May 26, 2009, 06:49:55 AM
I don't know why you say that, Lakes. My setup doesn't even faintly resemble this, and my machine hasn't, doesn't, and will not be using springs of any kind. The only thing you might say is similar is that he is moving his stator magnet. By the way, he moves it much farther than I need to move mine, and he can't even continue rotating in one direction. Very feeble, I'd say, but I'll let you decide that.
Oh, my flywheel is now mounted, and I will be doing some tests later today. Right now I need to get some sleep, as I've been up all night again.
Here's a link to a photo of the mounted flywheel:
http://q6k2yq.blu.livefilestore.com/y1poZ1dUnqnCSGQcegRGHlqYlF8nWxo733p-6-NdRKV29BeSrkhAd7qGV10Ci2AU3eVtZoMbW5KRDDmJkYcoyjSEw/Pipe%20Dream%20Flywheel%20033.JPG (http://q6k2yq.blu.livefilestore.com/y1poZ1dUnqnCSGQcegRGHlqYlF8nWxo733p-6-NdRKV29BeSrkhAd7qGV10Ci2AU3eVtZoMbW5KRDDmJkYcoyjSEw/Pipe%20Dream%20Flywheel%20033.JPG)
Note: After the photo appears, click the image to show it larger and with best resolution.
Best regards to you,
Rick :)
I was`nt being critical of your setup Rick, just pointing out a possible way of moving the stator.
Anyway I continue to follow your efforts with interest...
Hi Rick. Nice looking test rig. Your stator has north-south configuration on it and will require two stator movements per rotation of the wheel. If you changed that to north-south-north or south-north-south wouldn't that only require one movement of the stator per rotation? Hope this helps. Good luck and keep at it. Don't let the naysayers get you down.
Quote from: the badger on May 26, 2009, 10:44:32 AM
Hi Rick. Nice looking test rig. Your stator has north-south configuration on it and will require two stator movements per rotation of the wheel. If you changed that to north-south-north or south-north-south wouldn't that only require one movement of the stator per rotation? Hope this helps. Good luck and keep at it. Don't let the naysayers get you down.
The naysayers point out that it is an ordinary magnet wheel. The stator movement will require energy input which the wheel cannot provide. Perhaps you can enlighten us about where this energy will come from. Rick hasn't, because it can't be done.
Quote from: nyctuber on May 26, 2009, 10:56:09 AM
The naysayers point out that it is an ordinary magnet wheel. The stator movement will require energy input which the wheel cannot provide. Perhaps you can enlighten us about where this energy will come from. Rick hasn't, because it can't be done.
If people stop trying different setups like you seem to want, then whats the point of having this forum in the first place? Why do you even come to this forum if you think it can't be done? Aren't you just wasting your time? You seem to be right there as soon as anybody posts something. Your not being paid to be here are Ya? ::)
Based on nyctuber's wisedoms, perhaps we best ask the administrators to discontinue the magnet related forums. No overunity to be gotten from magnet, in any setup.
It seems to me the way Rick placed the appropriate poles in the line of the passing magnet groups is costing less energy than is freed in rotational movement. I hope rick will be able to prove the naysayers wrong, and the naysayers hopefully are hoping the same.
Well this is one of the points of this site.
I for one hope some one can find an input to cause such to work. Yet again it would take some form of external energy input, so how will that be done. Well we wait and see what he comes up with.
Of course this is the reality of such a device, in both gravity and magnetic systems.
Quote from: nyctuber on May 26, 2009, 10:56:09 AM
The naysayers point out that it is an ordinary magnet wheel. The stator movement will require energy input which the wheel cannot provide. Perhaps you can enlighten us about where this energy will come from. Rick hasn't, because it can't be done.
Eh, that is just their opinions. Repeated over and over and over, lol.
DON'T BOTHER TRYING! is the actual implied message here.
Why do they put so much time and effort into disseminating that message? One has to wonder ;)
Unfortunately for them, it is somewhat difficult to push such a message without making the intent quite obvious.. It can be done, but not the way these people are doing it lol ;)
This situation could indeed follow the famous the 4 Stages of Acceptance:
"It's impossible". Yeah, right.... Whatever you geniuses say, lol. Then when it is proved not to be, it will next come to:
"It's not worthwhile anyway". Lol, as if we won't notice and remember. It will be a good time for them to get new forum names and I.P.'s about then, hehehe. Next will be:
"I knew it all along"... Then
"It was my idea first" ;)
"Then when it is proved not to be"
LOL I hope it will be proven. So far I have not found a viable solution, or found were any one else has.
Yet folks will try in hopes they can find a solution. I still will wait and see what his solution is before I will say it can not be done. Hoping he is the one who can.
Quote from: the badger on May 26, 2009, 11:18:40 AM
If people stop trying different setups like you seem to want, then whats the point of having this forum in the first place? Why do you even come to this forum if you think it can't be done? Aren't you just wasting your time? You seem to be right there as soon as anybody posts something. Your not being paid to be here are Ya? ::)
It has nothing to do with different setups. There are specific forces involved, and CoE would need to be disproven. I come to the forum because, as you seem to be strangely unaware, there are many areas of experimentation discussed. A magnet wheel is one topic which has basically been played out. Save me the paranoia about MIB's.
Blind cheerleading is far worse than educated criticism.
Quote from: jibbguy on May 26, 2009, 12:37:26 PM
Eh, that is just their opinions. Repeated over and over and over, lol.
DON'T BOTHER TRYING! is the actual implied message here.
Why do they put so much time and effort into disseminating that message? One has to wonder ;)
Unfortunately for them, it is somewhat difficult to push such a message without making the intent quite obvious.. It can be done, but not the way these people are doing it lol ;)
This situation could indeed follow the famous the 4 Stages of Acceptance:
"It's impossible". Yeah, right.... Whatever you geniuses say, lol. Then when it is proved not to be, it will next come to:
"It's not worthwhile anyway". Lol, as if we won't notice and remember. It will be a good time for them to get new forum names and I.P.'s about then, hehehe. Next will be:
"I knew it all along"... Then
"It was my idea first" ;)
'Opinions' based on the results of empirical data, obtained through experiments.
If you're looking for something else, I suggest you try a religious messageboard.
New York, You are the "religious charlatan" here... Shouting the "Scientific Scriptures" as your proofs.. Like every religion, based on Faith ;)
Every single scientific principal in history before the current set has been proved wrong. So we are supposed to go along with your constantly repeated opinions as "The Only Possible Answer"?
Lol, "the only true god has spoken", huh? What a joke.
Actually, i am doing religions a disservice here... And i have much more respect for them than for those who claim to know it all, but really don't know squat regarding if things are possible or not.
In modern religion we are ASKED to take things on Faith, not ordered to with it with it all being sold as "fact"... Often proved over time to NOT be "fact" at all...
This is just more worthless opinions again pushed over and over in a suspicious manner, by someone who has shown us their true motives: By attacking Rickoff for no reason other than to further their agenda.
Every time you post now, we view your words through that filter. Your effectiveness here has ended.
Nyc
Behave yourself at Ricks party
We know you have skills, don't ruin the party!!
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=TheRickoff&view=videos
Chet
http://q6k2yq.blu.livefilestore.com/y1poZ1dUnqnCSGQcegRGHlqYlF8nWxo733p-6-NdRKV29BeSrkhAd7qGV10Ci2AU3eVtZoMbW5KRDDmJkYcoyjSEw/Pipe%20Dream%20Flywheel%20033.JPG
Quote from: rickoff on May 26, 2009, 06:49:55 AM
I don't know why you say that, Lakes. My setup doesn't even faintly resemble this, and my machine hasn't, doesn't, and will not be using springs of any kind. The only thing you might say is similar is that he is moving his stator magnet. By the way, he moves it much farther than I need to move mine, and he can't even continue rotating in one direction. Very feeble, I'd say, but I'll let you decide that.
Oh, my flywheel is now mounted, and I will be doing some tests later today. Right now I need to get some sleep, as I've been up all night again.
Here's a link to a photo of the mounted flywheel:
http://q6k2yq.blu.livefilestore.com/y1poZ1dUnqnCSGQcegRGHlqYlF8nWxo733p-6-NdRKV29BeSrkhAd7qGV10Ci2AU3eVtZoMbW5KRDDmJkYcoyjSEw/Pipe%20Dream%20Flywheel%20033.JPG (http://q6k2yq.blu.livefilestore.com/y1poZ1dUnqnCSGQcegRGHlqYlF8nWxo733p-6-NdRKV29BeSrkhAd7qGV10Ci2AU3eVtZoMbW5KRDDmJkYcoyjSEw/Pipe%20Dream%20Flywheel%20033.JPG)
Note: After the photo appears, click the image to show it larger and with best resolution.
Best regards to you,
Rick :)
Rick, very nice setup
You have sure earned your rest.
AZ
Quote from: jibbguy on May 26, 2009, 02:28:09 PM
New York, You are the "religious charlatan" here... Shouting the "Scientific Scriptures" as your proofs.. Like every religion, based on Faith ;)
Every single scientific principal in history before the current set has been proved wrong. So we are supposed to go along with your constantly repeated opinions as "The Only Possible Answer"?
Lol, "the only true god has spoken", huh? What a joke.
Actually, i am doing religions a disservice here... And i have much more respect for them than for those who claim to know it all, but really don't know squat regarding if things are possible or not.
In modern religion we are ASKED to take things on Faith, not ordered to with it with it all being sold as "fact"... Often proved over time to NOT be "fact" at all...
This is just more worthless opinions again pushed over and over in a suspicious manner, by someone who has shown us their true motives: By attacking Rickoff for no reason other than to further their agenda.
Every time you post now, we view your words through that filter. Your effectiveness here has ended.
Get over yourself. Rick posts videos of a magnet wheel, without offering any solution as to how he will overcome the forces which have prevented every other magnet wheel from working. And you all cheer out of ignorance based on absolutely nothing. You hope it will work, that's all. You get upset at skeptics who have seen it before. No different than religion.
Quote from: ramset on May 26, 2009, 02:38:54 PM
Nyc
Behave yourself at Ricks party
We know you have skills, don't ruin the party!!
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=TheRickoff&view=videos
Chet
http://q6k2yq.blu.livefilestore.com/y1poZ1dUnqnCSGQcegRGHlqYlF8nWxo733p-6-NdRKV29BeSrkhAd7qGV10Ci2AU3eVtZoMbW5KRDDmJkYcoyjSEw/Pipe%20Dream%20Flywheel%20033.JPG
Mylow's 'party' has lasted over three months now. You realize they still think it works, right? In spite of the fact that they can't get their $400 replications to spin. Amazing.
Quote from: nyctuber on May 27, 2009, 05:55:47 AM
Rick posts videos of a magnet wheel, without offering any solution as to how he will overcome the forces which have prevented every other magnet wheel from working.
Perhaps he's simply not dealing with the forces at play in the same way? Not all magnetic motor attempts are approaching the challenge in the same manner.
Stop posting on a magnetical setup forum if you dismiss any form of self-running magnet engine. Let us fools be. Sit back, read, and laugh, feel smarter than the lot of us.
Should against all odds Rick's machine turn out to work, eventually someone will, even if you don't deserve it, take the time to explain why it does work, where none before it did.
Quote from: Cloxxki on May 27, 2009, 06:11:52 AM
Perhaps he's simply not dealing with the forces at play in the same way? Not all magnetic motor attempts are approaching the challenge in the same manner.
Yet the results are the same 100% of the time.
AHH! Now I get it.
At some point there was a modification in the forum policies and no one told me >:(
1. Do not post your PMM trials.
2. Do not post your gravity trials.
3. Do not be nice to those doing #1 and #2. Be as insulting as possible.
4. Repeat your duplicate posts across multiple threads so you gain the attention you crave.
5. Infest as many threads as possible with your repeated book vomit. It doesn't matter if it is right or wrong. Just puke it onto the enjoyment of others.
6. Always claim you do it for the benefit of others even though it does nothing but increase the size of the forum database.
7. Claim 'your idea is crap' because the force you use is conservative.
Is there a force that is not conservative? Lets all tackle that one :D
Quote from: BEP on May 27, 2009, 06:33:22 AM
AHH! Now I get it.
At some point there was a modification in the forum policies and no one told me >:(
1. Do not post your PMM trials.
2. Do not post your gravity trials.
3. Do not be nice to those doing #1 and #2. Be as insulting as possible.
4. Repeat your duplicate posts across multiple threads so you gain the attention you crave.
5. Infest as many threads as possible with your repeated book vomit. It doesn't matter if it is right or wrong. Just puke it onto the enjoyment of others.
6. Always claim you do it for the benefit of others even though it does nothing but increase the size of the forum database.
7. Claim 'your idea is crap' because the force you use is conservative.
Is there a force that is not conservative? Lets all tackle that one :D
Any criticism is viewed as an insult, because people become emotionally attached to the person/project from the beginning. This is the crux of the problem.
Quote from: nyctuber on May 27, 2009, 06:38:08 AM
Any criticism is viewed as an insult, because people become emotionally attached to the person/project from the beginning. This is the crux of the problem.
Any attempt is viewed as no education, because the critics become emotionally attached to their own past failures. After all, if I can't do it and it failed 150 years ago then any one attempting it should be dumped upon until they submit.
The only 'educated' thing to do is - WALK AWAY.
OK look at this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyPYBJfRVQ4
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRqRz9-6ZL8
cat
Quote from: BEP on May 27, 2009, 07:04:05 AM
Any attempt is viewed as no education, because the critics become emotionally attached to their own past failures. After all, if I can't do it and it failed 150 years ago then any one attempting it should be dumped upon until they submit.
The only 'educated' thing to do is - WALK AWAY.
The correct way to approach it is the way I have done it. Nothing I said was remotely insulting, and the true believers had no answers. The second I wondered about Rick's mental state, the true believers pounced and cried 'AH HA!'
My initial question was, what is Rick's plan? No one had an answer.
Quote from: powercat on May 27, 2009, 07:12:13 AM
OK look at this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyPYBJfRVQ4
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRqRz9-6ZL8
cat
I'll point out that TK is showing in detail the reasons why it won't work before anyone gets too excited.
He's using a powered test rig.
TK
I can tell lots of work went into that one [those]
beautiful job!!
Nyc appreciate your concern
Any hooo
'''NOT WHAT RICK IS DOING'''' ,he's not going to make a meat slicer with his stator movement [you guy's don't listen ,to busy with the STOP,STOP stuff]
In my naivety I still feel some are sincerely trying to help[perhaps that time will come]
Rick has shown his stator diminishes travel and increases power [yes I know]and decreases movement with proximity to the rotor array
Very small movement, on I believe he said a guide rail
Chet
so far soooo good
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy0QLgYuraY&feature=channel_page
PS
Dusty's magnet man replication
The pieces come together wheels,gravity, magnets , focused shielded magnets etc...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEQoohqJTYk&feature=channel_page
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7521.msg182818#new
TK's Got a beautiful setup there. I love the adjustibility he has built into that thing. I wonder how Ricks magnet layout would work on it.
Quote from: the badger on May 26, 2009, 10:44:32 AM
Hi Rick. Nice looking test rig. Your stator has north-south configuration on it and will require two stator movements per rotation of the wheel. If you changed that to north-south-north or south-north-south wouldn't that only require one movement of the stator per rotation? Hope this helps. Good luck and keep at it. Don't let the naysayers get you down.
Hi Badger,
I think you mean that the rotor (the bike wheel rim) has N-S-N-S configuration. Actually there are four directional movements per each wheel revolution, or two returns to the stator pole of starting origin. I cannot use 3 rotor magnet groups, as you suggest, because that would place two groups of the same polarity in succession, which would have a counter rotational effect.
Don't worry, the naysayers are fading away with each positive development, and the ones who remain unconvinced and skeptical can not possibly deter me from proceeding on course. While I see that this forum tends to have more than its fair share of whiners, complainers, mudslingers, disinformation specialists, and uninformed critics, I can see that there are a few people like yourself here who are genuinely interested in pursuing a free energy project which has real possibilities.
Thanks for your interest, and your polite comments, Badger.
Best regards,
Rick :)
Quote from: lostcauses10x on May 25, 2009, 01:15:40 PM
Nice try on this one, yet the timing and input energy from the hand is the why of what has been shown.
Again it comes down to the how of correcting this problem.
So it is input energy to drive the wheel, as well as some way to time such external energy to make it work.
Well so far it is using the hand as a solenoid to push pull the wheel.
Strange how folks do not understand.
They think they are just timing it, instead of supplying the input energy that is driving the wheel.
Rick It will be interesting to see if you can devise a way to over come this. You are now to the point in this were folks say it becomes imposible to do by just magnets.
So far it has not been overcome.
Good luck.
Yes, so far the stator movement is accomplished by hand movements of the stator arm, but this is only temporary. The stator arm was only used as an experimental device for testing purposes. It will soon be replaced by an entirely different mechanism. What some of you fail to understand is that the input energy is all spent in moving the stator - not in moving the wheel, and that it requires little energy to do that. It is purely the magnetic interactions that are rotating the wheel, and you will clearly see that occurring at the front and tail ends of the magnet groups, where stator movement is halted. At those points, the unmoving stator produces rotation and accelleration forces, and this is clearly demonstrated in the videos if you watch closely. It is most easily seen when the wheel is just starting into rotation. At the end of one group, the stator is already positioned properly for entry of the next rotor magnet group. Watch the videos carefully, and you will see how that works. The beauty is in the simplicity. No need to complicate things by thinking of a hundred reasons why it might not work. Instead, climb onboard the project and start thinking about reasons why it is feasible, and begin suggesting ideas to overcome any negative aspects that actually do remain to be solved. I can honestly say that there aren't that many left to worry about, and that every development so far has proven to reap a positive result. At some point I may find myself up against a brick wall, and may need some help to get past that, but I won't be discouraged. Instead, I'll rely on my own ingenuity, and that of countless other helpful replicators and fellow experimenters to crush that wall and move beyond it.
Best regards to you,
Rick :)
Hi Ri,
i admire your efforts.
do not kid yourself that the actions of moving the stator is not what is powering your wheel.
One device i worked on would self start by moving the stator in, accelerate then slow down over 12 minutes. Had me fooled for a few minutes.
You are correct some energy goes into moving the stator.
The big problem is overcomming the cogging or sticking point. many people have use variuos mechanical and electrical means to do this. In all cases more energy was expended than could be harnessed from the device. Some people Like Mylow are more creative and use fishing line to overcome this.
I encourage you and your efforts as you may find a way of overcomming this. Many others (hundreds have failed) It is the hard work of people like you that may one day overcome the problem.
Most of all, enjpy what you are doing its not a bad hobby.
I look forward to following your progress and if I have something constructive to say I will forward it. You area decent honest person. I only attack those who choose to fake and the delusiional few who tend to attack everyone if they question anything.
Mark
Quote from: TinselKoala on May 25, 2009, 04:56:20 PM
Rick's doing great but there are some pitfalls, and since he looks like he thinks his design is new, I just thot I'd tell him what a lot of other people already have found out.
Tinsel, let me just say up front that I am not suggesting that there is anything new about anything that I am doing. I never made that claim, nor infered it in anything I have said or written. Surely every conceivable thing that can be done with magnets has been experimented with by someone at one time or another. I am only piecing together the most positive aspects into a build that is simple, straight forward, and easy to replicate by anyone wishing to do so. My primary purpose in releasing this project in an open source environment has been to make this very useful test apparatus available to all. It is the only idea that I can, and do, claim ownership to, and yet I am giving this idea away freely. There are countless uses for employing this test stand. Besides the current use for which I am utilizing it, it can also serve as a test stand for a pulse motor, Bedini SG, a mechanical Beseler type wheel, and other uses. It can be used vertically or horizontally, and the open structure makes it easy to work on projects and to implement structural changes and enhancements. So in this regard, my apparatus is something new and different, and which is sorely needed by experimenters. In regards to my current magnetic motor-generator project, the advantages of many replicators using the same experimental apparatus should be self evident, since whatever works for one will work for all. Standardizing the test platform will allow experimenters to pursue the same outcome using somewhat differing methods, and sharing their test results openly will allow other experimenters to avoid unnecessary duplications and to pursue other yet unexplored approaches to problem solving. If anyone here can think of a better way to move this, or any other, project forward then by all means do so, instead of maintaining a no productive attack dog stance whenever someone suggests a better way of doing things. Remember, I only came here because I was invited. I am not trying to promote myself, or to cram my ideas down anyone's throat. I fully acknowledge it is possible that I may fail in my quest, but my mind is not constrained by such negative thoughts. You can be with me or against me in this quest. If you are against me, and I do fail, then perhaps you will derive some satisfaction in saying, "I told you so." But will you really have gained anything of importance? I think not. On the other hand, those who are with me have a great deal to gain if we can move this project forwards to successful completion, and very little to lose if we are wrong in our beliefs. I don't want followers who blindly believe in what I say and who look on me to lead the way at every step. I want intelligent, open-minded, and methodological thinkers who will stand shoulder to shoulder with me in a think tank mentality dedicated to achieving success. There is no place in this for disbelievers, or ego strokers who wish to assert their claim to superiority by attempting to attack others and bring them down. down. I am just a common, ordinary man, make no claim to be a genius, and don't want to be regarded as one by anybody. I only ask that you give my ideas and methods due consideration. If you don't like or appreciate them, that's fine, but then move on to something else and stop being an unwelcome nuisance to those who are interested in learning more. Keep in mind that you will never learn anything useful if you contunuously maintain a negative attitude and a mind closed to acceptance of possibilities that are different or opposed to your normal thought processes.
Best regards,
Rick :)
Quote from: nyctuber on May 27, 2009, 07:27:33 AM
The correct way to approach it is the way I have done it. Nothing I said was remotely insulting, and the true believers had no answers. The second I wondered about Rick's mental state, the true believers pounced and cried 'AH HA!'
My initial question was, what is Rick's plan? No one had an answer.
There you go again, nyctuber, hoping to convince others that your blatant attacks, insults, and outright lies were of honorable intentions. If anyone is interested in what you have to say then let him step forward and say that he stands with you. After that, it would be best if all who do stand with you simply take your b.s. elsewhere, because it will be understood that no one else is interested in hearing it. Frankly, I would have thought that this forum would have rules of proper conduct that should have ousted you from further participation in discussion threads long ago. My advice to you is to find another thread or forum with a subject that you truly
are interested in - perhaps one where the participants all enjoy abusing others, and also being abused by them.
Good luck to you in your search,
Rick :)
Oh, I nearly forgot to mention it but the "plan" that you speak of is quite well documented in my videos if you take the time to watch them. But of course you won't, since you are not really interested.
Quote from: markdansie on May 27, 2009, 09:31:50 PM
Hi Ri,
i admire your efforts.
do not kid yourself that the actions of moving the stator is not what is powering your wheel.
One device i worked on would self start by moving the stator in, accelerate then slow down over 12 minutes. Had me fooled for a few minutes.
You are correct some energy goes into moving the stator.
The big problem is overcomming the cogging or sticking point. many people have use variuos mechanical and electrical means to do this. In all cases more energy was expended than could be harnessed from the device. Some people Like Mylow are more creative and use fishing line to overcome this.
I encourage you and your efforts as you may find a way of overcomming this. Many others (hundreds have failed) It is the hard work of people like you that may one day overcome the problem.
Most of all, enjpy what you are doing its not a bad hobby.
I look forward to following your progress and if I have something constructive to say I will forward it. You area decent honest person. I only attack those who choose to fake and the delusiional few who tend to attack everyone if they question anything.
Mark
I assure you that I am not kidding myself about anything, Mark. I know that the wheel will not continuously revolve unless there
is continued movement of the stator magnet. All I am saying is that there are ways to overcome and nullify the negatives while augmenting the positive aspects, and to achieve self sustained movement by doing so. Thanks for your kind words and support of my efforts.
Best wishes to you,
Rick :)
Quote from: nyctuber on May 26, 2009, 10:56:09 AM
The naysayers point out that it is an ordinary magnet wheel. The stator movement will require energy input which the wheel cannot provide. Perhaps you can enlighten us about where this energy will come from. Rick hasn't, because it can't be done.
Another false statement from the OU disinformation specialist. I have made it
very clear where the energy to move the stator will come from, and this can be easily summed as follows:
1. The power of magnetic interactions of attraction, repulsion, and accelleration.
2. Inertial momentum of the accellerated mass.
I have also made clear the methods I will be using to take advantage of these forces. Nothing that I have done, or am currently doing, is unknown or left unexplained. I have thoroughly documented every step that I have taken, and all of these steps have shown useful information and positive results.
These forces are convincingly powerful enough, when combined, to offer the solution which has previously evaded a great many experimenters and made itself known to only a very few. My aim is only to rediscover what works, and make this information available to all. What is
your purpose here? You needn't answer that question, as I'm quite sure that the rest of us already have a pretty good understanding of your purpose here, and aren't interested in hearing any more of your negative perceptions, outright deceptions, and innuendos.
Rick
Quote from: jibbguy on May 26, 2009, 12:37:26 PM
Eh, that is just their opinions. Repeated over and over and over, lol.
DON'T BOTHER TRYING! is the actual implied message here.
Why do they put so much time and effort into disseminating that message? One has to wonder ;)
Unfortunately for them, it is somewhat difficult to push such a message without making the intent quite obvious.. It can be done, but not the way these people are doing it lol ;)
This situation could indeed follow the famous the 4 Stages of Acceptance:
"It's impossible". Yeah, right.... Whatever you geniuses say, lol. Then when it is proved not to be, it will next come to:
"It's not worthwhile anyway". Lol, as if we won't notice and remember. It will be a good time for them to get new forum names and I.P.'s about then, hehehe. Next will be:
"I knew it all along"... Then
"It was my idea first" ;)
Hi Jibbguy, and thanks for standing with me. Don't worry, I won't be wasting much time here in unproductive replies and debates with deceivers and naysayers. But at the same time I won't slam the door on those who sincerely and enthusiastically seek to explore my methods and possibly learn something from them. I'd like to see as many people as possible become involved in this project, and have all the information so widely and thorougly provided that there is no possibility of it becoming hidden from those who seek it.
Thanks again, my man, and best wishes to you,
Rick :)
Quote from: nyctuber on May 27, 2009, 07:30:32 AM
I'll point out that TK is showing in detail the reasons why it won't work before anyone gets too excited.
He's using a powered test rig.
And a rig that is a different build, using different magnets, materials, and methods. But at least he is trying, and I salute him for that. Where is
your contribution?
Quote from: the badger on May 27, 2009, 11:23:29 AM
TK's Got a beautiful setup there. I love the adjustibility he has built into that thing. I wonder how Ricks magnet layout would work on it.
Probably not that well if this is an aluminum rotor, as I suspect may be the case. I also see the upright block (steel, I presume) that is apparently used for nullifying an undesirable magnetic interaction, and notice that is usually where things tend to hang up. I assume the horseshoe mag is alnico, and that the rotor magnets are ceramics. Try all neos, group and orient the magnets as I have shown, and see where it goes. Some flywheel effect would definitely help out. A solid rotor does not offer a good flywheel effect. To achieve that, much of the mass nearer the center must be removed, allowing the majority of weight to be centered in a relatively narrow band at the outside perimeter. That's why a steel rimmed bicycle wheel already has good flywheel effect, and when further weight is added (as in the form of my 3+3/4 pound birch plywood ring) this greatly enhances inertial momentum to smooth and even out rotations, and to overcome rotational resistance points. Very nice machine work, TK. You really aren't that far away from succeeding, so do keep trying.
Best wishes,
Rick :)
rickoff - thanks for sharing your device. Some thoughts...
Quote from: markdansie on May 27, 2009, 09:31:50 PM
do not kid yourself that the actions of moving the stator is not what is powering your wheel......In all cases more energy was expended than could be harnessed from the device.
rick - The movement of the stator WILL impart SOME of the rotational energy into the wheel. True, a larger % will come from the magnetic interactions, but the MOTION of the stator will impart rotational energy to the wheel. This imparted rotational energy from the stator will then require greater output from the wheel - and so on - kind of a mini catch-22.
Quote from: rickoff on May 27, 2009, 09:48:41 PM
If anyone here can think of a better way to move this
I believe you are attempting to move the stator in the most efficient way, rotating it the way you are.
Trying to 'pulse' the stator up and down required lifting the weight of the stator, AND seperating magnets in this direction required the most energy.
Another method would be to 'twist' the stator along the horizontal axis. Better than up and down, but still not as good as the rotation you are using.
Quote from: rickoff on May 27, 2009, 10:44:39 PM
Nothing that I have done, or am currently doing, is unknown or left unexplained.
I am unclear as to HOW you are going to move the stator... how will will it be linked to the wheel etc..
Thanks
Quote from: rickoff on May 27, 2009, 10:44:39 PM
Another false statement from the OU disinformation specialist. I have made it very clear where the energy to move the stator will come from, and this can be easily summed as follows:
1. The power of magnetic interactions of attraction, repulsion, and accelleration.
2. Inertial momentum of the accellerated mass.
I have also made clear the methods I will be using to take advantage of these forces. Nothing that I have done, or am currently doing, is unknown or left unexplained. I have thoroughly documented every step that I have taken, and all of these steps have shown useful information and positive results.
These forces are convincingly powerful enough, when combined, to offer the solution which has previously evaded a great many experimenters and made itself known to only a very few. My aim is only to rediscover what works, and make this information available to all. What is your purpose here? You needn't answer that question, as I'm quite sure that the rest of us already have a pretty good understanding of your purpose here, and aren't interested in hearing any more of your negative perceptions, outright deceptions, and innuendos.
Rick
My purpose is to point out the obvious, about using or momentum or the 90 degree rule to create a magnetic perpetual motion machine. I'ts all been tried before, none of it has worked. If you make it work, then good for you. My initial questions about your device met with zero answers from 'the fans,' and I was directed to a 30 page messageboard showing the construction of what appeared to be a simple magnetic wheel/ stator arrangement. When I asked for a summation, not really wanting to sift through 30 pages, I got no answer.
My point is this:
If you're doing a magnet wheel project, it will save ALOT of time and unnecessary arguing if you simply lay out your plan from day one. I'm not really even a critic of people trying interesting projects, I just cant stand the madness surrounding 'hope science.'
You do seem to have a plan, it would have been nice to know about it from day one. That's all.
Quote from: rickoff on May 27, 2009, 10:10:41 PM
There you go again, nyctuber, hoping to convince others that your blatant attacks, insults, and outright lies were of honorable intentions. If anyone is interested in what you have to say then let him step forward and say that he stands with you. After that, it would be best if all who do stand with you simply take your b.s. elsewhere, because it will be understood that no one else is interested in hearing it. Frankly, I would have thought that this forum would have rules of proper conduct that should have ousted you from further participation in discussion threads long ago. My advice to you is to find another thread or forum with a subject that you truly are interested in - perhaps one where the participants all enjoy abusing others, and also being abused by them.
Good luck to you in your search,
Rick :)
Oh, I nearly forgot to mention it but the "plan" that you speak of is quite well documented in my videos if you take the time to watch them. But of course you won't, since you are not really interested.
Yeah, none of my posts were attacking in nature, until the true believers needed a scapegoat. Yes, I wondered if you'd had a brain injury. I thought I remembered you from a few years ago talking about it. It wasn't an attack, but for some reason people need a scapegoat to rail against.
A more mature approach would to simply acknowledge the understandable skepticism when seeing what appears to be a simple magnet wheel. Not everyone feels like watching 16 videos or reading 30 messageboard pages which seem to be showing the construction of a conventional magnet wheel/ movable stator setup. I'm not going to be your scapegoat for voicing normal skepticism. It's pretty sad how sensitive inventors/tinkerers seem to be. Grow up.
rickoff
Deleted a long post with questions.
Simpler to say keep us informed of your progress. And good luck.
@ New York: There is no logical reason for your so-called "skepticism" here, which in actuality is nothing of the kind. If it was legitimate, you would have waited to see more of the actual outcome before trying every trick in the book to dis the project; and you would have more to offer than your continually repeated opinions... Which certainly do not gain in worth by the repetition.
Now you are claiming to be a "scape goat" lol... So you are the "victim" here, eh? That one's a classic ;)
Poor little New York: Trying to save the world from magnet motors... No one understands you.
...You are understood, alright ;)
And what it boils down to is this: A cynical attempt to use this site's dedication to Free Speech against itself.
Quote from: capthook on May 27, 2009, 11:56:24 PM
rickoff - thanks for sharing your device. Some thoughts...
rick - The movement of the stator WILL impart SOME of the rotational energy into the wheel. True, a larger % will come from the magnetic interactions, but the MOTION of the stator will impart rotational energy to the wheel. This imparted rotational energy from the stator will then require greater output from the wheel - and so on - kind of a mini catch-22.
I believe you are attempting to move the stator in the most efficient way, rotating it the way you are.
Trying to 'pulse' the stator up and down required lifting the weight of the stator, AND seperating magnets in this direction required the most energy.
Another method would be to 'twist' the stator along the horizontal axis. Better than up and down, but still not as good as the rotation you are using.
I am unclear as to HOW you are going to move the stator... how will will it be linked to the wheel etc..
Thanks
Hi captain,
You are correct in that the stator HAS to move to provide continuous rotation, but once the stator is moved to the proper position, rotation continues through the forces of repulsion and attraction with no stator movement (and for a good distance) until the next positioning movement is required. And, nothing about the stator movement imparts any rotational force to the wheel other than the magnetic interactions that are involved.
To understand how I am going to attempt to move the stator, you must first take the image of the stator arm that I have been using completely out of your mind. The actual stator arrangement will look nothing like this. It will be as lightweight as possible, and I will probably be using clear Lexan to mount the stator so that we all have a clear view of what is going on when looking down upon it from overhead. The Lexan mount will pivot freely on a non-magnetic shaft that will project downwards towards the rotor from above it, with the pivot point aligned at the centerline of the wheel rim and the pin set at an 8 degree angle to correspond to the slope of the rim. This allows the height of the stator magnet to be constantly maintained. Now because the stator will pivot, it will swing in a concentric arc, across the rim, and this I see as being very important. That's because each point of movement occurs at the tail end of a magnet group, where repulsion is used to accellerate the group further along. The arcing motion allows the stator magnet to actually chase after the group, providing the strongest repulsion effect possible. The way my stator arm is now pivoting, from the outer frame post, the pivot point is incorrect. It does allow chasing a magnet group when swung in one direction, but moves the stator away from the tail end of a group when moved in the opposite direction. So the new stator will be far more effective at achieving higher rotational velocities due to full accelleration bursts with every movement. The stator mount will be connected, at the end farthest from the pivot, to a linkage which connects directly to what I would prefer to call the tracking carriage. This carriage will be a device that rides upon a monorail track. Just picture a monorail train, and I think you will get the idea. For best operation, the tracking carriage will need to be suspended from a sliding mechanism mounted above it, which will allow stable but free linear horizontal movement. The track will be mounted somewhere beyond the outer perimeter of the bike wheel (most likely about 3 inches from the rim edge), where the greatest leverage is afforded. The track will slowly snake inwards and outwards at exactly the points that are needed to maintain absolutely perfect timing, and the tracking carriage will follow the track in perfect harmony. Each movement of the carriage, inward or outward, will result in the desired movement of the stator via the carriage to stator mount linkage rod.
So there you have it, in a nutshell so to speak. As the videos progress, I will be showing the materials that I will be using to accomplish this. Since I always like to utilize low cost methods for testing my ideas, I will not be building the tracking system using the best available materials, such as ceramic bearings for the stator pivot and the tracking carriage, but I think it will be good enough to show that the idea does at least have merit for further study and enhancement.
Do you have the picture now, and have I explained this well enough? Much of this has been mentioned by me in the comments sections of my videos, but you may not have read all of that. It is also mentioned in my builder plans, which are available to anyone serious about building the apparatus and becoming a part of this project. Those who are interested should e-mail me (rickandlezel@hotmail.com) and request a link to download the construction pdf file. Please don't anyone e-mail me with questions, as I will never be able to respond to them. I will answer any polite questions that arise here, however, (or at least as many as I have time for) and that will give everyone a chance to see the answers. Most everything, though, is completely spelled out in both words and photos in the builders pdf, so please refer to that before asking something.
Thanks, and best wishes,
Rick :)
Why not make the pdf freely available Rick?
You can alway attach it to a post here.
Quote from: rickoff on May 27, 2009, 11:34:52 PM
Probably not that well if this is an aluminum rotor, as I suspect may be the case. I also see the upright block (steel, I presume) that is apparently used for nullifying an undesirable magnetic interaction, and notice that is usually where things tend to hang up. I assume the horseshoe mag is alnico, and that the rotor magnets are ceramics. Try all neos, group and orient the magnets as I have shown, and see where it goes. Some flywheel effect would definitely help out. A solid rotor does not offer a good flywheel effect. To achieve that, much of the mass nearer the center must be removed, allowing the majority of weight to be centered in a relatively narrow band at the outside perimeter. That's why a steel rimmed bicycle wheel already has good flywheel effect, and when further weight is added (as in the form of my 3+3/4 pound birch plywood ring) this greatly enhances inertial momentum to smooth and even out rotations, and to overcome rotational resistance points. Very nice machine work, TK. You really aren't that far away from succeeding, so do keep trying.
Best wishes,
Rick :)
Argh.
Your statement about flywheel effect is wrong. The reason flywheels have holes near the center is to reduce their overall weight without correspondingly reducing their rotational moment of inertia. If you have 2 flywheels of the same dimensions, one with holes and one without, the one without holes will be the better flywheel. It will also be heavier.
I can prove this assertion if need be, but any elementary physics book can explain it to you. And if you think about it, how could removing material possibly increase inertia? It cannot. You take 2 flywheels, identical in dimensions, they have identical inertia. Your claim is that by removing material from one, you will increase its rotational inertia.
Your assessment of my testbed is also wrong. There are no ferromagnetic materials whatsoever on or near the disk. In the vid shown I believe I had the keeper on the alnico stator, but all hardware and supporting parts are non-magnetic stainless steel and brass and aluminum and plastic.
(EDIT I forgot about the ball bearings in the articulated stator system. There are 3 ball bearings and their races are indeed ferromagnetic. They tend to remain relatively far from the rotor magnets though.)
I have many different magnets and have tried many different configurations. I have a data-logging tachometer, vibration sensors, Hall effect sensors and other instrumentation that tell me exactly what my wheel is doing. I have 3 different ways of imparting known and repeatable starting momentum to my disk.
And I have another disk of the same dimensions (except thicker) made entirely of Acrylic Plastic.
And I can make that linkage swing magnets in any plane, horizontal or vertical, and I have many different kinds of stator magnets and mounts for them.
I am succeeding just fine, thank you. I can prove, using my apparatus, that ANY arrangement of magnets that you or anybody can come up with, will actually subtract energy from a spinning disk rather than add to it.
For example, on my wheel here's the runup-rundown profile of a pretty good magnet arrangement (non-articulated stator, Mylow configuration). Most others are much worse. Can you show any data from your rig that even hints at an improvement obtained by putting magnets on it?
I suppose if the system accelerates ,that run down stuff goes right out the window
perhaps carbon fiber lever/track follower
Many possibilities with Rick's test rig
Chet
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=TheRickoff&view=videos
Quote from: jibbguy on May 28, 2009, 02:19:54 AM
@ New York: There is no logical reason for your so-called "skepticism" here, which in actuality is nothing of the kind. If it was legitimate, you would have waited to see more of the actual outcome before trying every trick in the book to dis the project; and you would have more to offer than your continually repeated opinions... Which certainly do not gain in worth by the repetition.
Now you are claiming to be a "scape goat" lol... So you are the "victim" here, eh? That one's a classic ;)
Poor little New York: Trying to save the world from magnet motors... No one understands you.
...You are understood, alright ;)
And what it boils down to is this: A cynical attempt to use this site's dedication to Free Speech against itself.
There is a better reason for my skepticism than your blind worship based on hope. In fact, you should thank me for it.
@New York: Yes, Thanks for showing us what you are really all about by your previous actions here.
___________________________
@ Tinsel: It appears to be "splitting hairs" regarding the flywheel. with a bicycle wheel with spokes, having the weight out at the circumference is probably the best way to go ;)
Regarding the run down: You are supposing a KNOWN type configuration. Having neat toys to monitor it (and they are very, lol and worthy of envy), can't change that.
With a manually-operated MOSTAT to avoid "Mr. Sticky"; we all know there can be continual rotation with decent torque possible, we all can see that and have known about the possibility of such for a long time now; with many different designs. So replacing that with an efficient MOSTAT has the capability to ruin that equation that always seemed to end in a "minus" before... By changing the Equation itself, and thereby the "rules".
With a design such as Rick envisions the energy needed to operate the MOSTAT is a "Constant"; while scaling-up the wheel or changing the number of magnets or their specific configuration can indeed change the amount of possible torque available.... So although the MOSTAT is a "constant" user of energy (mainly dependent on RPM i guess), the Rotor's specific configuration is a "variable" supplier of energy per RPM.
So the key will be to change the variable to exceed the constant. In such a system there will be a minimum size or minimum number of mags that will work at all: Scaling-up or changing basic magnet configs can increase the total torque available per RPM... There really is no disputing this. Meanwhile the energy needed to run the MOSTAT remains the same for a specific RPM.
Although, i guess we need to add a Disclaimer about that torque produced by the mags at a given RPM... We DO NOT know yet for sure if that is a '"constant", or another variable. With conventional electric motors, it pretty much is a linear constant for the input energy (within the mid operating ranges of the motor anyway). But with permanent magnets as the only motive force, who knows; there could be more or less energy produced at higher RPM's for all we know yet; or even a "resonant frequency" -like effect for a specific config of magnets; where a specifc RPM produces the most torque. It will all need to be tested... Since there is no model available.
That's where your expertise and equipment could be very useful ;)
But using a "regular" run down test without the MOSTAT he envisions, is pretty much without meaning in this case (because we can't know that constant energy value for the equation yet).
So that is why the predictions of Doom are premature ;)
And why endeavors such as this ARE important.
Quote from: jibbguy on May 28, 2009, 09:31:08 AM
@New York: Yes, Thanks for showing us what you are really all about by your previous actions here.
And thank you for confirming your status as blind emotional cheerleader.
Lol where's the emotion, "Mr Victim" ? .... Although i guess "humor" is an emotion if we get technical about it ;)
Can you show us more energy in backing such a claim than you do for the knee-jerking denials?
Quote from: jibbguy on May 28, 2009, 09:52:01 AM
Lol where's the emotion, "Mr Victim" ? .... Although i guess "humor" is an emotion if we get technical about it ;)
Can you show us more energy in backing such a claim than you do for the knee-jerking denials?
The claim just proved itself again. Don't forget your pompoms.
40 mm quad Orkelons are my favorite ;)
Check out Tuber's previous posts. For someone who doesn't believe in magnet power 95% of his posts are in the magnet section. He hasn't tried to help anybody at all. He has over 550 posts and has only be on the forum 2 months. He just HAS to get everybody to give up on this project! His paycheck depends on it. ;)
EXPOSED ;D ;D ;D ;D
TK reverse the concept of stator and rotor with this one.
What he calls his stator is the item that gets magnetic drag from the rotor in this one.
Think of his stator as an oscillating rotor. Of course this is easy to see by having to use the HAND to over come that drag, that it is there.
Some torque and or force measurements would be good on such.
One then could see such relations to the velocity changes to the fly wheel , and be able to estimate the MOI of such.
One then could see what and were the problems are.
Oh folks do not realize that even such ideas (if found) applied to the electromagnetic motors of today would be so useful and cost to use savings, that such would be applied rapidly.
On of the reasons I still think about the guy and what he shows with the induction motors and PMs.
Like I said I had wrote a post with a lot of questions, mostly relating to measurements, I thought about it a bit, and decided to drop it and wish him luck and hope he keeps folks informed of what he finds.
If you want to play TK use the whipmag rotor layout and two stators in a position they can not vibrate. You can get damn close to original rundown times. Takes a bit of work to position them to do so, but they will get damn close. I suspect playing with strengths and positions one might eventually get the conservative of a break even, yet such a test bed and the precision placement of such would be difficult to make.
Yet at best one might eventually achieve a equal, not a gain from such.
Note if they are allowed any motion it will be a loss. LOL such does not over come friction and normal drag of course.
to others:
The why I mention this to folks is simple. On a free flywheel, with no work to be done but its own friction and drag, and push or pull that has to be done by the stator would also need to be compensated by device to at least equalize the loss of such.
This is something on the latest attempts of today I do not see at all. Even the drawings and ideas short of that perpetual mobile it is not shown or even considered.
To get a break even on the loss, some thing must be placed to equalize it. You know I still am thinking showing Unity; Motion at unity would be a good thing by the way. LOL
Ricks vid # 18
Chet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ga2_Yp__oI&feature=channel_page
If everybody thinks alike
SOMEBODY is not thinking
#19
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07xSRWoHn14&feature=channel_page
It`ll be interesting to see the mech that Rick uses to move the stator.
It is interesting to note the similarities between a PMM and a RC tank used for transferring charge between capacitors. It is thought by many that this can be done with an electrical or electro-mechanical load placed in between, and have that load driven for free. This is not so unfortunately.
The same is true of Rick's pipe dream. The energy required to move the stator is going to equal, and actually because of frictional losses, exceed the amount of energy that is gained by the flywheel through its rotation.
What will happen once Rick "connects the link" between the rotor and stator is the rotor will gradually slow similar to how it does now without any stator movement.
This really has been tried dozens of times before with no success. It doesn't appear Rick did any research beforehand. It matters not what configuration is tried, the result is always the same. Confirmation should be just a few videos away.
This is not a skeptical point of view as I have indeed tried this myself.
.99
Poynt
The energy to move the stator can vary
I don't know Ricks technique [between the rail and stator]
However, would a very,very [did I say VERY] light, fairly long[and very strong] Lever change things?
In your opinion, which I value TREMENDOUSLY!
Chet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6bE9TzetSA
Chet,
I expect we will see fairly soon.
I hope Rick proves me wrong.
.99
I just came across this...
For Rick:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJKTFZqu5Eo&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK8rBgJfmBI&feature=channel
.99
Poynt
Lots of heavy moving parts and connections there!
Chet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YRUDd0hyRI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRPMZQAPQ50
using veljko molkovic's principles to make a gravity wheel; experiments and progress
also, check this guy's video out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6bE9TzetSA
and feel free to browse inquorate's wm2d sims, as well as actual experiments, at
http://www.youtube.com/user/Inquorate
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7509.msg183868#new
If Rick does it, then he will be the first.
Chances are pretty good though that whatever mechanism he is going to use, has been tried before.
I wish him luck.
.99
@ramset
Geez that magnet shielding idea. I will try and make one or two of them and try it on my own wheel. I left the guy a comment but I guess it takes time for new comments to appear on the page.
Basically, I think his thin rectangular magnet open side is giving two polarities plus the blotch wall, since his neo magnets are polarized through the 1/4" thickness. This will still give him two polarities off the edge so not a real danger for those looking for reasons to stop his videos.
BUT, if you take a nice square neo magnet polarized through one of the thicknesses, then shield leave one corner open, then you will only have one real half polarity coming out and only then would it be a real mono magnet. I made a quick drawing to show. Sorry for off topic. But I need some of these. Hmmmm.
@wattsup,
hy buddy we finally found you again. We have been waiting for an update on your Mylow replication and a summary of the project to date?
Mark
Wattsup
@All
I believe Rick will approve of ANY productive Comment towards realizing success.
He has built a great cheap TEST BED with Many possibilities!![Gravity ,Magnet Etc...]
Chet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YRUDd0hyRI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRPMZQAPQ50
using veljko molkovic's principles to make a gravity wheel; experiments and progress
also, check this guy's video out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6bE9TzetSA
and feel free to browse inquorate's wm2d sims, as well as actual experiments, at
http://www.youtube.com/user/Inquorate :o
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7509.msg183868#new
Ricks page http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ga2_Yp__oI&feature=channel_page
Quote from: wattsup on June 01, 2009, 09:01:16 AM
BUT, if you take a nice square neo magnet polarized through one of the thicknesses, then shield leave one corner open, then you will only have one real half polarity coming out and only then would it be a real mono magnet. I made a quick drawing to show. Sorry for off topic. But I need some of these. Hmmmm.
What would you do with a single pole? Even if you make one.
Its still a potential well and will move things only once, and will stop when it reaches the lowest potential.
What we need is a moving shield which can switch off/on a magnet pole. Such is possible, but it probably takes more energy to move this shield than one gets out of such system.
@Omega_0
I had interviewed an inventor back in Dec. 2008, of a magnetic shield. See here.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6207.msg143204#msg143204
His patent is at the end of the article. But no more news on this so far.
Yes a moving shield is one answer, but if you can make a real mono-magnet with only one half field being exposed, this will give you pure directionality without the reversing other half of the same pole. By putting just one of these stators on a populated wheel of matching rotors, the combined directionality will give much better chance of a free turning magnet wheel. But it has to be tested for sure to find out.
Quote from: wattsup on June 02, 2009, 04:58:09 AM
@Omega_0
I had interviewed an inventor back in Dec. 2008, of a magnetic shield. See here.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6207.msg143204#msg143204
His patent is at the end of the article. But no more news on this so far.
Yes a moving shield is one answer, but if you can make a real mono-magnet with only one half field being exposed, this will give you pure directionality without the reversing other half of the same pole. By putting just one of these stators on a populated wheel of matching rotors, the combined directionality will give much better chance of a free turning magnet wheel. But it has to be tested for sure to find out.
Exactly. But correctly shielding one side only seems very difficult. Most shielding only disperses the field.
I am positive that the key to create a magnet motor is in shielding for an inert stator. After all, didn't Henry Ford prove it with cow magnets?
AZ
All
These boys are working on the same problem [May not be a problem much longer]
Chet
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/4313-magneticgravitymotor-idea.html
Quote from: wattsup on June 02, 2009, 04:58:09 AM
.............if you can make a real mono-magnet with only one half field being exposed, this will give you pure directionality without the reversing other half of the same pole. By putting just one of these stators on a populated wheel of matching rotors, the combined directionality will give much better chance of a free turning magnet wheel. But it has to be tested for sure to find out.
Its possible that the rotors will not cog on the attracting pole (say, its shielded), but they will refuse to enter the repulsing pole with double resistance. So net result will be the same. A shield will only change the distribution of field in space, it does not weaken it. Unfortunately .... :(
The holy grail is switching a magnet on/off (not just shielding) ... well sounds impossible.
Quote from: AquariuZ on June 02, 2009, 07:16:45 AM
Exactly. But correctly shielding one side only seems very difficult. Most shielding only disperses the field.
I am positive that the key to create a magnet motor is in shielding for an inert stator. After all, didn't Henry Ford prove it with cow magnets?
AZ
Do you seriously think this story is real? Why would Henry Ford have given a shit about oil company profits. Oil companies were small fry in his day.
If he could have built a car that ran on nothing he would have done it! He would have been the ONLY car manufacturer on the planet. Who would buy a car that needs petrol when you can buy one from Henry that runs on nothing.
Really, some people will believe anything!
Hans von Lieven
Edit Henry was bluffing when he said this. No more, no less.
Quote from: hansvonlieven on June 03, 2009, 03:32:01 AM
Do you seriously think this story is real? Why would Henry Ford have given a shit about oil company profits. Oil companies were small fry in his day.
If he could have built a car that ran on nothing he would have done it! He would have been the ONLY car manufacturer on the planet. Who would buy a car that needs petrol when you can buy one from Henry that runs on nothing.
Really, some people will believe anything!
Hans von Lieven
Edit Henry was bluffing when he said this. No more, no less.
Yup, I do believe that a homopolar magnet could make a magnet motor possible. Hence I am some people.
HvL saying Henry was bluffing and it being so are not really equal now, are they? If I want to know if a homopolar magnet motor could function I must try to build one and experiment. Likewise if I wanted to see if Henry was bluffing I would need to build the concept and see for myself...
Lucky for me and my wallet I rarely want to know.
For what it is worth, I have now seen with my own eyes that the second Mylow project is an epic failure, and the first project is about to fail because of the outrageous amount of Euros wanted for the channel magnets here in Spain. No freedom in sight then.
AZ
Cow magnets are simple bar magnets that are encased in some neutral material. The idea is that metal bits that the cow ingests get captured , stay inside and don't injure the cow. They are available around the world. There is nothing homopolar about the device.
Hans von Lieven
The single polarity is simulated, that's all.
Besides the point I previously made BTW.
AZ
@AquariuZ
Just wondering how your Mylow replication is comming along
Mark
Quote from: markdansie on June 03, 2009, 04:13:03 AM
@AquariuZ
Just wondering how your Mylow replication is coming along
Mark
Or the Sjack Abeling one for that matter
Hans von Lieven
Quote from: TinselKoala on May 28, 2009, 06:09:17 AM
Argh.
Your statement about flywheel effect is wrong. The reason flywheels have holes near the center is to reduce their overall weight without correspondingly reducing their rotational moment of inertia. If you have 2 flywheels of the same dimensions, one with holes and one without, the one without holes will be the better flywheel. It will also be heavier.
I can prove this assertion if need be, but any elementary physics book can explain it to you. And if you think about it, how could removing material possibly increase inertia? It cannot. You take 2 flywheels, identical in dimensions, they have identical inertia. Your claim is that by removing material from one, you will increase its rotational inertia.
That isn't my assertion at all. I am just saying that a better flywheel is made by removing mass near the center and placing it at the outer perimeter instead, where it enhances rotational inertia to a much greater degree. And, what you say about about a heavier flywheel is not always true. I guaran-damn-tee you that a solid flywheel weighing 20 pounds will not outperform a 19 pound spoked flywheel which has 80 percent or more of its weight placed at the outer perimeter.
Quote from: TinselKoala on May 28, 2009, 06:09:17 AM
Your assessment of my testbed is also wrong. There are no ferromagnetic materials whatsoever on or near the disk.
Okay, then what the heck is that large block jutting straight up from the rotor which causes the stator to hang up and stop motion when above it? You didn't answer that.
Quote from: TinselKoala on May 28, 2009, 06:09:17 AM
I have many different magnets and have tried many different configurations. I have a data-logging tachometer, vibration sensors, Hall effect sensors and other instrumentation that tell me exactly what my wheel is doing. I have 3 different ways of imparting known and repeatable starting momentum to my disk. And I have another disk of the same dimensions (except thicker) made entirely of Acrylic Plastic.
And I can make that linkage swing magnets in any plane, horizontal or vertical, and I have many different kinds of stator magnets and mounts for them.
Well bully for you, TK. That's fine and dandy. It probably took a lot of money to get all of that, and you need to realize that most people out there just can't afford such an investment. That's why I developed the Pipe Dream apparatus, which is inexpensive to build and can be built by anyone with a minimum of ordinary tools. No machine shop operations are involved. My main purpose is to allow everyone who wants to get involved in the Pipe Dream Project the ability to do so. Besides, it makes a lot more sense if many people start with the same basic build. That way, if something works well for one then it will work well for all. If everyone has a different build and uses different materials and magnets then there is no way to accurately compare or verify results.
Quote from: TinselKoala on May 28, 2009, 06:09:17 AM
I am succeeding just fine, thank you. I can prove, using my apparatus, that ANY arrangement of magnets that you or anybody can come up with, will actually subtract energy from a spinning disk rather than add to it.
No, you can't prove jack diddley squat about my arrangements or methods with your apparatus. The only way you can prove anything at all about these factors is by building my apparatus to specs and precisely following my procedures.
Quote from: TinselKoala on May 28, 2009, 06:09:17 AM
For example, on my wheel here's the runup-rundown profile of a pretty good magnet arrangement (non-articulated stator, Mylow configuration). Most others are much worse. Can you show any data from your rig that even hints at an improvement obtained by putting magnets on it?
I'll be happy to show you the data once I complete my tracking and timing mechanisms, and have no doubt whatsoever that the results will prove far more beneficial than any of the Mylow configurations. By the way, did you include the fishing line in your Mylow configuration? I would have to say that one thing about your Mylow configuration test made no sense at all, and that is the rate of rotor speed that you went to in your spin up. Mylow's best speed results were at 90 rpm (and that was probably with the fishing line drive attached), so a spin-up faster than that gives you no useful and relative data about his configurations from your run down test. Obviously the faster you spin up, the longer it will take to run down. How long did it take to run down from 90 rpm?
I really can't get over the attack dog attitude that seems to prevail here, TK. I applauded you for your efforts, complimented you on your machine work, encouraged you to continue your quest, and made a couple of simple and polite suggestions. In turn, you get all huffy and jump all over me with your attack dog attitude. Maybe you just had a bad day, and if that's the case then I'm sorry to hear that. But with the constant barrage of flak that prevails here I really have to wonder about intentions. Do you see me as a threat? I'm not here to threaten anyone, or to cram anything down their throats. You can like my apparatus and my methods, or you can despise them if you wish. It really doesn't matter to me. But if you don't like what you see then simply focus your efforts on a thread or project that you
are interested in. If we are all here for the same reason (in pursuit of energy independence) then wouldn't it be wiser to make helpful suggestions rather than uninvited and unwelcome attacks? I think so, and extend a helping hand to anyone who cares to accept it. Remember that I did not start this thread. I only came here by invitation and to answer questions from those who are truly interested in what I am doing. I really don't have time for petty bickering and unproductive debates with others who have a different mindset and goals. Therefore, I will not reply further to anyone unless their post shows earnest interest and is stated politely.
Best regards to those who
are earnest and polite,
Rick :)
Quote from: poynt99 on May 31, 2009, 09:45:01 AM
What will happen once Rick "connects the link" between the rotor and stator is the rotor will gradually slow similar to how it does now without any stator movement.
This really has been tried dozens of times before with no success. It doesn't appear Rick did any research beforehand. It matters not what configuration is tried, the result is always the same. Confirmation should be just a few videos away.
This is not a skeptical point of view as I have indeed tried this myself.
.99
The rotor may indeed slow down after I "connect the link," but will in no way be similar to what it does when the stator is locked. That's because with the stator locked there are 4 accelerative forces and 4 decelerative forces encountered per revolution. In moving stator mode, there are 8 accelerative forces and zero decelerative forces met by the stator per revolution. Therefore, the only factor that can possibly slow the revolutions with the moving stator is the amount of force required to move it, and I do believe there is adequate inertial momentum at the wheel and flywheel to provide that force. I am sure that you would be amazed at how little force is actually required to move the stator when the stator to rotor gap is at 1.75 inches or higher. At that height the required force is really negligible, while acceleration effects are still very good.
I know this has been tried dozens of times before with no success, but not with my exact build and methods. I may also try dozens more times and fail, but I will continue with the quest until I succeed or die. What did you do after you tried and failed? You accepted defeat and gave up, didn't you? And you took to heart what all the naysayers kept telling you. Now their mindset has become yours.
When I do die it is my hope that the many who are now replicating my Pipe Dream apparatus and methods will continue from where I left off. At least they will have the advantage of knowing everything that I have done, and how to duplicate it, which until now has been something pretty much unheard of.
And don't kid yourself - I did tons of research before setting out on this quest and establishing the direction of this project. Everything that I have done so far has a definite purpose behind it, and is not a product of happenstance or blind exploration. I wouldn't be so presumptuous as to claim that I will succeed on my first attempt at a self runner, but neither should you be so presumptuous as to claim that I will fail. Time will tell, but for now no one knows for certain. It really seems to me that several people here not only expect that I will fail, but also hope that I will, and I just can't fathom where that attitude comes from. Maybe it just grows on you after hanging out here too long. If so, I'll be sure not to spend much time here.
Rick
Quote from: rickoff on June 03, 2009, 07:02:07 AM
Therefore, the only factor that can possibly slow the revolutions with the moving stator is the amount of force required to move it, and I do believe there is adequate inertial momentum at the wheel and flywheel to provide that force.
There are 4 stator movements per revolution I assume, and it is necessary that the force required to do this is available from the rotor, plus excess force to keep the rotor moving.
Quote
I am sure that you would be amazed at how little force is actually required to move the stator when the stator to rotor gap is at 1.75 inches or higher. At that height the required force is really negligible, while acceleration effects are still very good.
I am sure you will be amazed at how little force the rotor actually has after each quarter rotation. If it has not been measured, how can one be so certain that it exceeds the force required to move the stator? You can not include inertia into the equation, just the raw forces.
Quote
What did you do after you tried and failed? You accepted defeat and gave up, didn't you? And you took to heart what all the naysayers kept telling you. Now their mindset has become yours.
Actually, I put it on the shelf for further thought. I have an open mind. After all, I was willing to entertain the idea that Mylow had actually succeeded.
Quote
Time will tell, but for now no one knows for certain. It really seems to me that several people here not only expect that I will fail, but also hope that I will, and I just can't fathom where that attitude comes from. Maybe it just grows on you after hanging out here too long. If so, I'll be sure not to spend much time here.
No, no one knows for certain as you say. I hope you do prove me wrong. By all means. If your apparatus really is as fundamentally different than every other ever tried in the past, then perhaps you are right, but I must confess that I do not see it myself.
Good luck,
.99
rickoff
You say there is little force to move the stator and that the rotor will have more than enough force to do this, What are your measurements of this force?
Oh well time will tell if your feel is right.
Quote from: lostcauses10x on June 03, 2009, 11:58:30 AM
rickoff
You say there is little force to move the stator and that the rotor will have more than enough force to do this, What are your measurements of this force?
Oh well time will tell if your feel is right.
Well, at just 5 rpm it takes a 6 ounce force at the rim to stop the wheel. At higher rpm, of course, it takes much more force to stop the wheel. But at 5 rpm, or any speed, it requires just a 2 ounce force to move the stator.
Rick
I am anxious to see how you will have us move the stator.
I believe help will come from many places!
You are one of a kind
Thanks
Chet
Quote from: ramset on June 05, 2009, 07:23:59 AM
Rick
I am anxious to see how you will have us move the stator.
I believe help will come from many places!
You are one of a kind
Thanks
Chet
Waiting for video #20, will Rick show his Stator mech??, stay tuned to this channel! :)
@Rick: Your objections to my "attack dog" tone, as you put it, have nothing at all to do with the viability of your device. You can experiment all you want but I am telling you that you are exploring a dead end. Years from now when you finally give up, and have all those pipes and magnets lying around, I would like you to remember one little thing:
I told you so.
And your comparisons of the "force" it takes to stop the disk or move the stator are irrelevant--because "work" is the quantity you must equate here... that is, force applied over a distance. How much WORK does it take to stop your disk? How much WORK does it take to move your stator around?
Force is not work, power is not energy, tra la.
Now, all you have to do is to prove me wrong. Because as long as your device doesn't run itself, I have no need to prove you wrong--you continue to demonstrate it quite well yourself.
Carry on.
(Have you come up with a rig that "runs" better than my moving overhead stator rig? I think not.)
Quote from: TinselKoala on June 06, 2009, 01:32:46 PM
@Rick: Your objections to my "attack dog" tone, as you put it, have nothing at all to do with the viability of your device. You can experiment all you want but I am telling you that you are exploring a dead end. Years from now when you finally give up, and have all those pipes and magnets lying around, I would like you to remember one little thing:
I told you so.
And your comparisons of the "force" it takes to stop the disk or move the stator are irrelevant--because "work" is the quantity you must equate here... that is, force applied over a distance. How much WORK does it take to stop your disk? How much WORK does it take to move your stator around?
Force is not work, power is not energy, tra la.
Now, all you have to do is to prove me wrong. Because as long as your device doesn't run itself, I have no need to prove you wrong--you continue to demonstrate it quite well yourself.
Carry on.
(Have you come up with a rig that "runs" better than my moving overhead stator rig? I think not.)
I have nothing, http://www.youtube.com/user/homeproject?blend=2&ob=1
Quote from: TinselKoala on June 06, 2009, 01:32:46 PM
@Rick: Your objections to my "attack dog" tone, as you put it, have nothing at all to do with the viability of your device. You can experiment all you want but I am telling you that you are exploring a dead end. Years from now when you finally give up, and have all those pipes and magnets lying around, I would like you to remember one little thing:
I told you so.
And your comparisons of the "force" it takes to stop the disk or move the stator are irrelevant--because "work" is the quantity you must equate here... that is, force applied over a distance. How much WORK does it take to stop your disk? How much WORK does it take to move your stator around?
Force is not work, power is not energy, tra la.
Now, all you have to do is to prove me wrong. Because as long as your device doesn't run itself, I have no need to prove you wrong--you continue to demonstrate it quite well yourself.
Carry on.
(Have you come up with a rig that "runs" better than my moving overhead stator rig? I think not.)
TK - I see you're at it again. Don't you have anything better to do? Perhaps not, but I do and really don't have time for this kind of malarkey. My remarks about force, in post # 148, were in response to a question asking about force. Point is, you don't know me and you don't have any idea at all about what I do or do not know. You just keep assuming that you are a know-it-all, and that I am just a back woods tunkle head who doesn't have a clue. Have it your way, I really don't don't care what you think. I can see that your abundantly negative attitude springs from a long line of past failures, and now you have convinced yourself that no magnetic motor can possibly work. I'm not at all convinced of that, and I am not used to failing. So where others, like you, have given up and admit defeat, I will keep on trying until I get it right or die.
I won't be answering any further hostile or demeaning comments here, as I have many better things to do and little time to waste, so don't even bother responding. If you want to know anything more about my build then you will just have to wait and see, like everyone else.
Rick
If a person could present a business model for success It would look like Ricks.
Take a good concept, Magnets and their potential, create a cheap simple test bed get as many minds as possible together, utilizing at first a step by step approach [put together like a pro] with the understanding that ""failure is not an option""
FAILURE IS NOT AN OPTION
All ideas [positive] are welcome
Chet
Quote from: rickoff on June 07, 2009, 04:16:21 AM
TK - I see you're at it again. Don't you have anything better to do? Perhaps not, but I do and really don't have time for this kind of malarkey. My remarks about force, in post # 148, were in response to a question asking about force. Point is, you don't know me and you don't have any idea at all about what I do or do not know. You just keep assuming that you are a know-it-all, and that I am just a back woods tunkle head who doesn't have a clue. Have it your way, I really don't don't care what you think. I can see that your abundantly negative attitude springs from a long line of past failures, and now you have convinced yourself that no magnetic motor can possibly work. I'm not at all convinced of that, and I am not used to failing. So where others, like you, have given up and admit defeat, I will keep on trying until I get it right or die.
I won't be answering any further hostile or demeaning comments here, as I have many better things to do and little time to waste, so don't even bother responding. If you want to know anything more about my build then you will just have to wait and see, like everyone else.
Rick
What an excellent post this was.
"until I get it right or die."
Full marks, a pat on the back and two shots of Tequila over here please...
AZ
Failure may not be an option, but in this case (permanent magnet motors) it is an inevitability.
You are working against simple and irrefutable physical laws.
Just as you cannot add 3 plus 3 and expect to get 7 (failure is not an option, remember, so why not keep trying, you'll get the Nobel in math when you succeed!!), you cannot succeed in this particular endeavor.
It truly pains me to see creative and intelligent and talented individuals wasting time, effort and money on something that is so simple and so clearly impossible. And to see them defend their efforts while shouting out "failure is not an option" or "I am used to success" -- as if either of those things had anything to do with an attempt to break laws of physics -- is truly ridiculous.
But sure, it's your life. Do what you want to with it. But if you don't do your homework, or listen to those who just might know more than you do, you will spend a lot of time re-inventing the wheel, and then "spinning" it.
Or the SMOT, in this case.
For example, Rick, nothing you have shown so far is in the least bit new (or physically, as opposed to psychologically, even interesting). Now, your stated misconceptions about energy, power, force, acceleration, inertia and so forth betray the fact that you don't know as much as you think you do, Rick, and your arrogance and superiority complex is keeping your mind closed to real information.
But don't worry about any of that. It would be so easy to PROVE ME WRONG, if only you could. But you can't. Because you are exploring a dead end, and you can't (or more likely , won't) even read the signs that others have left for you.
Meanwhile, I note that you have not answered me: Do you have a moving-stator configuration that "works" better than mine? If so, let's see it. Please show a typical rundown from a known starting impetus, as I have done, and compare that performance with an equivalent setup with weights instead of stator magnets. Take the ratio of the rundown times. For you to have any hope whatsoever of overunity, you must at some point obtain a ratio greater than unity with this test.
Here's a Math Equation for you....
> Rick's design as intended will incorporate a MOSTAT that has an energy usage value which is a "Known Constant", and is directly related linearly to the "RPM".
> The energy output of the device, as expressed in rotational movement produced by the rotor is a "Variable" dependent on the particular configuration of the magnets.
Let's say in a hypothetical case that the energy expended by the MOSTAT is "100" (just an arbitrary figure, representing what is needed to move it for one complete revolution at a specific RPM of say "50"). And let's label the energy produced by the rotor mags at that same RPM as "X" (...Represented as the actual "spinning power" of the rotor which includes bearing friction, air resistance or any drag caused by magnetic interaction with the MOSTAT). So this Equation would be:
X-100 = ...?
We cannot possibly know until we solve for the variable "X" .
All we know is that "X" must be "Greater Than 100" ; in order for the device to spin continually. If "X" turned out to be "99" it wouldn't spin for very long. If it was "101" ; it should...
And that's only a 2% diff in output... But it makes all the difference in the world between being right or being dead wrong ;)
At that "almost" point of "99".... Would anyone bet the farm that another 2% of output could not be gotten somehow by adding more magnets or changing the magnet configuration??
The device can be configured any number of ways to produce greater or lesser rotor power... "X" can be many different values. So why are we so dead-sure "X" cannot be greater than "100"... ? That adding more mags, changing the N-S configuration of the magnet groups (maybe so the MOSTAT has only "2" movements per revolution verses "4" and thus lowering that Constant value as well), would not change the solution to our Equation to a "plus" value?
Besides which, is everyone so sure that the torque output per revolution created by the rotor magnets will not actually change with RPM?... That it is indeed a "Linear" function? That this is not ANOTHER Unknown as well (another Variable to solve for)? Anyone who has ever successfully built a working all-magnet motor.. Isn't telling us if this is a "Linear" value or not hehehe ;)
So empirical observation will be the only possible way to know if the torque total output changes with RPM ... Or if "X" can be made to exceed the Constant at a specific RPM as well.
Luckily, the clever design of this device will allow for changes that can quickly and easily be judged for their effects on the outcome... Something very important when testing new devices; as only ONE variable must be changed at a time to properly understand results.
jibbguy
A simple rule of this. Just how much forces and energy input does the wheel need with out rotor to keep it going at say 5 rpm for one hour?? At 5 PRM I bet without keeping an input force and without the stator I can stop it with out any force. Let friction do its thing.
Were as I find this amusing, I do not see any way for it to happen without external input. Which at this point is MR HAND.
So far no sign of ou in what has been shown. I hope, but have realistic doubts that such will be shown with this set up.
Quote from: TinselKoala on June 07, 2009, 12:54:10 PM
It truly pains me to see creative and intelligent and talented individuals wasting time, effort and money on something that is so simple and so clearly impossible. And to see them defend their efforts while shouting out "failure is not an option" or "I am used to success" -- as if either of those things had anything to do with an attempt to break laws of physics -- is truly ridiculous.
you spending $900 and 80+ hours of your time on the mylow thing makes that statement look truly ridiculous. if anyone here gave a crap about your cherry picking opinion TK, we might all go in on a 'i told you so' medal for you.
PS
he didn't answer you because he said he wasn't going to respond to your kind anymore... and you still expect an answer after reading that you're not getting one? are you mental?
Quote from: jibbguy on June 07, 2009, 04:04:36 PM
And that's only a 2% diff in output... But it makes all the difference in the world between being right or being dead wrong ;)
At that "almost" point of "99".... Would anyone bet the farm that another 2% of output could not be gotten somehow by adding more magnets or changing the magnet configuration??
I will bet the farm. If you can show me how adding even one permanent magnet to ANY device increases rundown time, I would be truly impressed.
I like to know TK is here !!
Hopefully someday soon he'll see something new!
Chet
Quote from: utilitarian on June 07, 2009, 04:53:31 PM
I will bet the farm. If you can show me how adding even one permanent magnet to ANY device increases rundown time, I would be truly impressed.
Specifically arranged rotor and stator magnets can lift the rotor weight off of the physical bearing thus reducing the friction and increasing the run down time. Effectively, you create a magnetic bearing with the magnets which overide the physical bearing...
Os
Quote from: WilbyInebriated on June 07, 2009, 04:46:44 PM
He didn't answer you because he said he wasn't going to respond to your kind anymore... and you still expect an answer after reading that you're not getting one? are you mental?
Mega dittos, Wilby! ;D
Quote from: utilitarian on June 07, 2009, 04:53:31 PM
I will bet the farm. If you can show me how adding even one permanent magnet to ANY device increases rundown time, I would be truly impressed.
Where's your farm, and what's it worth to you? Does that offer include the tractor, the livestock, the feed, the house, the barn, and the entire property? How many acres is that? What state and county is that in? I have a cousin looking for a free farm.
Best 2 U,
Rick :)
Quote from: lostcauses10x on June 07, 2009, 04:45:05 PM
jibbguy
A simple rule of this. Just how much forces and energy input does the wheel need with out rotor to keep it going at say 5 rpm for one hour?? At 5 PRM I bet without keeping an input force and without the stator I can stop it with out any force. Let friction do its thing.
Were as I find this amusing, I do not see any way for it to happen without external input. Which at this point is MR HAND.
So far no sign of ou in what has been shown. I hope, but have realistic doubts that such will be shown with this set up.
A hand can come in very handy for magnetic experimentation. When I performed the hand held stator demonstrations in my earlier videos, I did that because it clearly shows the different types of stator movements that can be used to achieve rotation. You should try this yourself, and you would learn a great deal about the magnetic interactions that are occurring. Holding the stator magnet in your hand gives you insight that would be otherwise impossible to obtain. Likewise, moving the stator arm by hand, to produce rotation, also yields further significant insight. This is an evolving process that takes what works well and constantly seeks ways to make it work even better. If I were doing this all alone then it might take me the rest of my life to succeed, but I think you are missing the point. The point is - I am not alone in this. This is an open source project that is gaining world wide interest. Every day I receive several new requests from people who want to join the project and help move this idea forward. Several people have already completed a replication of the Pipe Dream apparatus, and are reporting their own test results to the other participants. Since my main goal in all of this was to design a low cost, standardized test apparatus, and to put it into the hands of as many people as possible, I would have to say that I have already succeeded. In going about this the way that I have, everyone who wants to knows exactly what I have done so far, what I am now doing, and what I plan to do next. It takes a heck of a lot of time to fully document everything this way, but I feel this has to be done to do things right. The builder's document is now at 100 pages and still growing, with step-by-step instructions and photos that even a third grader could understand and follow. If I were not documenting everything in this manner then I would be much further along with my own build, so I do what I can with the time that I have, but hope that other replicators will move ahead even faster by using my hard work as a springboard. I'd love to see someone beat me to the finish line, and you see - that's what this project is all about - helping people get there. The only requirements for joining the project are a positive mindset and a will to succeed.
Rick :)
Quote from: rickoff on June 08, 2009, 02:14:26 AM
Where's your farm, and what's it worth to you? Does that offer include the tractor, the livestock, the feed, the house, the barn, and the entire property? How many acres is that? What state and county is that in? I have a cousin looking for a free farm.
Best 2 U,
Rick :)
Sounds like a fair trade. Free energy device for a farm. Some might offer more than a farm.
Industrial size device based off Rick's design:
I now see a big cilindrical drum, inside and outside stuffed with PM's. Let's imagine the drum with its axis along the grond.
Each "slice" of the drum gets alternating S/N facing magnets. The stators are mounted N/S-N/S-N/S etc or soemthing along 2 bars which can slide laterally, without friction of course. Inside and outside of the drum rim, to interact with all magnets. The stators could even be lightweight drums of their own, though all one piece.
A very heavy counterweight for the stator drum acts like short pendulum. Short, so it oscillates quickly. At the end of each swing though, the pendulum is held in place. Additionally, there is a track mechanism to gain any efficiency lost from the pendulum and lateral magnetic interaction. Key word: heavy :-) The pendulum does force the system to run at a fixed speed I suppose. Hmm.
Rick said
Quote;
The point is - I am not alone in this. This is an open source project that is gaining world wide interest. Every day I receive several new requests from people who want to join the project and help move this idea forward. Several people have already completed a replication of the Pipe Dream apparatus, and are reporting their own test results to the other participants. Since my main goal in all of this was to design a low cost, standardized test apparatus, and to put it into the hands of as many people as possible, I would have to say that I have already succeeded.
And I say
Thanks Rick, I love how lite and portable it is
Easy to carry around and show folks !
You could make a board game from this [actually several types]
Better than playing scrable[which I stink at]or cards or Rubicks cube
THE SPINNER"S THE WINNER
Chet
PS
The winner gets the Farm [lost causes, if I win you can keep the farm]
PPS you could call the game !
"HERESY do you dare"
Rick (or someone) should start a Yahoo group for this... :)
Quote from: rickoff on June 08, 2009, 03:01:48 AM
A hand can come in very handy for magnetic experimentation. When I performed the hand held stator demonstrations in my earlier videos, I did that because it clearly shows the different types of stator movements that can be used to achieve rotation. You should try this yourself, and you would learn a great deal about the magnetic interactions that are occurring. Holding the stator magnet in your hand gives you insight that would be otherwise impossible to obtain. Likewise, moving the stator arm by hand, to produce rotation, also yields further significant insight. This is an evolving process that takes what works well and constantly seeks ways to make it work even better. If I were doing this all alone then it might take me the rest of my life to succeed, but I think you are missing the point. The point is - I am not alone in this. This is an open source project that is gaining world wide interest. Every day I receive several new requests from people who want to join the project and help move this idea forward. Several people have already completed a replication of the Pipe Dream apparatus, and are reporting their own test results to the other participants. Since my main goal in all of this was to design a low cost, standardized test apparatus, and to put it into the hands of as many people as possible, I would have to say that I have already succeeded. In going about this the way that I have, everyone who wants to knows exactly what I have done so far, what I am now doing, and what I plan to do next. It takes a heck of a lot of time to fully document everything this way, but I feel this has to be done to do things right. The builder's document is now at 100 pages and still growing, with step-by-step instructions and photos that even a third grader could understand and follow. If I were not documenting everything in this manner then I would be much further along with my own build, so I do what I can with the time that I have, but hope that other replicators will move ahead even faster by using my hard work as a springboard. I'd love to see someone beat me to the finish line, and you see - that's what this project is all about - helping people get there. The only requirements for joining the project are a positive mindset and a will to succeed.
Rick :)
Rick, I agree the hand expriements show us what is needed to be done. "Move the stator"
I think the scientific question becomes "How do we move the stator with less work than that is produced?"
Also, how to measure this to ensure we are getting more work done.
Bill
Quote from: maw2432 on June 08, 2009, 05:02:50 PM
Rick, I agree the hand expriements show us what is needed to be done. "Move the stator"
I think the scientific question becomes "How do we move the stator with less work than that is produced?"
Also, how to measure this to ensure we are getting more work done.
Bill
Hi Bill,
There are nearly an infinite number of possible methods, and combinations of methods, that can be used for stator movement. Some will obviously prove to be better than others, and as experimentation results are received from Pipe Dream project participants and entered into a searchable central database, focus will be directed at further enhancing methods shown to provide the most beneficial results, as well as exploring methods not yet reported. I am currently working on a tracking/timing method, while others are working on differing methods of achieving the stator movement. The whole idea behind sharing all this data is to help speed the project forward by allowing experimenters to avoid pitfalls and needless duplications of efforts already made and documented, while focusing on new techniques or enhancements to techniques that have already been demonstrated as beneficial. Working in this organized manner allows each person's efforts to have the most substantial, positive, and effective contribution to the project's outcome. The data received from, and shared by experimenters, will be very exacting reports of all involved factors, and the results obtained during a standardized test procedure. I'll be explaining more about this aspect later, but I think you now see the dynamics that are involved. So you see, I could go on and on talking about the method I am currently exploring, and why I think it is likely to work well, but it is irrelevant at this point until it is actually tested and the results are confirmed by others. And my next step will then be either to enhance this method, if it appears to nearly work, or use a different approach or combination of approaches.
Best 2 U,
Rick
Quote from: callanan on June 07, 2009, 07:11:13 PM
Specifically arranged rotor and stator magnets can lift the rotor weight off of the physical bearing thus reducing the friction and increasing the run down time. Effectively, you create a magnetic bearing with the magnets which overide the physical bearing...
Os
Yes, Callanan, a very good point, and something we have been giving due consideration. If stator movement can be accomplished in an efficient manner that allows even low rpm rotation, then the rotation speed can certainly be enhanced through use of better bearings, specialty lubricants, magnetically assisted resistance reduction, or by use of methods allowing for bearingless levitation of the rotor axis. All of these methods are available, and none are ruled out for experimentation.
Rick
Rick, I have been waiting for views of your new stator setup, but can't find it on yt.
here is the simple drawing I made but I doubt it would work.
Jerry
Quote from: rickoff on June 08, 2009, 02:08:04 AM
Mega dittos, Wilby! ;D
What part of my post leads you to believe I expect an answer? I'm just making a statement, since rickoff has proven incapable of actual discussion of anything contrary to his preconceptions.
Now, where's rick? He's either A) commercializing his permanent magnet motor discovery, or B) tearing his hair out because he still hasn't come up with a moving stator design that works better than mine does.
Which do you think is more likely?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3JHdIzPmfk
Here`s another (old) video.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJKTFZqu5Eo&NR=1
Quote from: Fatman on June 26, 2009, 07:27:13 PM
Rick, I have been waiting for views of your new stator setup, but can't find it on yt.
Here is a link to a photo showing a section of test track laid upon a Masonite strip attached to the clear polycarbonate track base. http://q6k2yq.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pVPrrniGKCQI4P64BbYJXHh8PW_9nEHbhCCv_61xChN1hcDIBhXxKMwhzC4YavBI_BbUMD3XUvcb0JCA2YRGYLw/Tracking%20System%20part%203-H.jpg (http://q6k2yq.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pVPrrniGKCQI4P64BbYJXHh8PW_9nEHbhCCv_61xChN1hcDIBhXxKMwhzC4YavBI_BbUMD3XUvcb0JCA2YRGYLw/Tracking%20System%20part%203-H.jpg)
I have made up several of these adjustable Masonite arcs so that I can try out many varying tracking configurations and determine what works best. The Masonite will then be used as a drilling template so that the polyurethane timing track can be attached directly to the clear polycarbonate track base. I am currently working on the stator carriage and support mechanisms, and once these are completed then serious testing can begin.
Thanks for your continued interest,
Rick :)
If TK and or Sean A.K.A Clanzer can not get it to work then I don't think it will work. they are pretty dam smart and exceptional at engineering, I highly doubt they are wrong.
Jerry
While I applaud TK's work in this, I think his approach is significantly different from Rick's, as TK's stator is moving in a circular/sine mannor (pardon lack of teck lingo). His stator is only shortly doing useful work.
Rick's stator will be more precisely timed, at reduced stator amplitude.
I had some simpler ideas to time the rotor and stator, more cude certainly than TK's, and I seem to recall Rick expressed his preference to more specifically place the stator, and not give it that cyclic nature. While his timing mechanism is bound to be higher-friction than TK's, I do leave room for his stator to produce more positive work per cycle. Can't wait for Rick's first attemps at a self-runner!
How has progress been for the pipe dream replicators? Rick is obviously investing a lot of time in the documentation and explanation process as he goes along, and could have completed his first version long ago not having to deal with that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7d4WWzWLP1k&feature=channel
Its that time
Chet