Here are two rules that I have developed and used for myself. I find it to be quite handy. :D Its just so much easier to think this way, for me anyway.
1.) Right hand rule (modified)
I changed the standard right hand rule into the electron model of the right hand rule. *(This isn't deflection of a wire or current flow) This rule describes the forces on a moving electron. Why? Because any free electron moving through a magnetic field will experience a force causing it to change direction.
2.) Left hand rule (sorry, backwards picture)
*(Note: the description in the image is wrong!!!) The thumb actually points in the direction of electron flow rather than the current flow. Current flow is opposite the electron flow (I know it's strange). Electrons flow from negative to positive. Because electrons are negative and thats the pole they originate from. Current, on the other hand, flows from positive to negative. It must be a hold over from the old days when they didn't know about electrons.
What is this "force"?
I believe Ed called it magnetic current ...
Quote from: Grumpy on November 12, 2009, 05:05:02 PM
Nice picture of Tesla. thanks for posting that. Was that taken in his New York Lab?
Barrett's theory is complicated. Didn't he prove portions of it? I recall that he received a couple of patents.
Looking at your right hand rule, creating a force on a conductor in a magnetic field might produce a current.
EDIT:
if you apply an electric field pulse perp to the magnetic field (index finger of your right hand using your rule diagram), while the field is changing (pulse rise) will it create a force is that will induce a dipole current (like a displacement current)?
Ah. Well two things are happening at the same time it looks like, a electric pulse and a magnetic pulse. I would calculate the two things separately then sum the two results, like this;
The electric pulse will attract the electrons, causing the electrons move in the direction the index finger points, moving across the magnetic lines of flux (thumb) so the electron will end up not where it was headed but below it somewhere between the index finger and middle finger (Speed and flux strength will determine how much it curls toward middle finger.)
Second part, the magnetic pulse. Imagine we start our calculation again. We have a electron sitting there and a magnetic field comes up upon it. The direction of the lines of flux stays the same so our thumb stays pointing in the same direction as the time. What's different is magnetic field is moving this time. Let's say magnetic pulse comes from a source from below (you never said so I'll assume). As lines flux expand up from below they move past the electron. Even though our electron is not moving and its the magnetic field that is moving up, the electron would feel like it is moving through field downward so point your index finger downward. Does that make sense? The magnetic field expands upward, so our stationary electron moves through the field down ward. (That's a tricky part...) So, now that there is motion between our electron and magnetic field the electrons starts to feel the force of deflection. It starts moving now toward the direction the middle finger points (sideways).
Now I can add the two results; Result 1, electron was moving toward electric field but was deflected down. +PLUS+ Result 2, electron was deflected sideways.
EQUALS= The electron tends to move in a circle that moves down and back toward you. Note, it would have done that anyway from the first result but the expanding magnetic pulse made it happen more quickly and made the circle tighter and smaller.
Quote from: Grumpy on November 12, 2009, 05:44:05 PM
What is this "force"?
The lines of force, as described in second picture, are what I alway refer to as magnetic lines of flux. It's the magnetic field lines.
Any time a free electron moves it create a magnetic field that expands from it like wake from a ship or a sonic boom from a speeding bullet. The magnetic field is like a spinning cone with the electron at the apex.
The other force.
The one that exist during the initial rise of the pulse.
Quote from: Grumpy on November 12, 2009, 09:06:28 PM
The other force.
The one that exist during the initial rise of the pulse.
Which pulse? I assumed two different pulses from two different sources. An electric field pulse from a source sitting in front of the electron and a magnetic pulse originating from some where underneath the electron.
Maxwell was right, yes the aether is the mirror of it, zpe/vaccum is instantanous.
Quote from: angryScientist on November 12, 2009, 09:18:09 PM
Which pulse? I assumed two different pulses from two different sources. An electric field pulse from a source sitting in front of the electron and a magnetic pulse originating from some where underneath the electron.
When electricity is first applied to the wire, there is a force perpendicular to the wire that exists while the voltage is initially rising. As I recall, this is attributed to polarization. I'll dig up the reference later today.
What I'm getting at is: just like moving a wire through a magnetic field, or a magnet along a wire induces current (particle drift) in the wire, you can induce drift by applying this "force" perp to the conductor while apllying a magnetic field perp to both the force and the wire.
This brings up a question or two:
1. Why does drift keep occurring when you connect a wire across a battery?
2. Can you "enhance" the drift by external means?
Quote from: Grumpy on November 13, 2009, 08:15:06 AM
When electricity is first applied to the wire, there is a force perpendicular to the wire that exists while the voltage is initially rising. As I recall, this is attributed to polarization. I'll dig up the reference later today.
What I'm getting at is: just like moving a wire through a magnetic field, or a magnet along a wire induces current (particle drift) in the wire, you can induce drift by applying this "force" perp to the conductor while apllying a magnetic field perp to both the force and the wire.
This brings up a question or two:
1. Why does drift keep occurring when you connect a wire across a battery?
2. Can you "enhance" the drift by external means?
The way I see it, current through a wire can be thought of in two ways. The simple way for dealing with DC calculations. There's a voltage across a wire along with resistance then current plus a magnetic field and a electric field. Doesn't matter what time it started, etc. Simple math.
Then there's AC. Time factor comes into play. The time it takes for electrons to get from one part of the wire to another becomes important. The behavior of things (susceptibility, permittivity) the electrons pass next to becomes important. A everything seems to be affected by everything else. That's a lot to think about!
I saw the left hand rule for current up above. Gosh that's a nice looking picture. Thanks for it. I don't know though, I still get confused when thinking about current flow. It just backwards from how I like to think, in electron flow. Most people think electron flow and current flow are one and the same. Most times it's not a problem but sometimes it can lead two people to be very confused at each other.
Quote from: Grumpy on November 13, 2009, 08:15:06 AM
This brings up a question or two:
1. Why does drift keep occurring when you connect a wire across a battery?
2. Can you "enhance" the drift by external means?
?
Quote from: Grumpy on November 13, 2009, 08:15:06 AM
When electricity is first applied to the wire, there is a force perpendicular to the wire that exists while the voltage is initially rising. As I recall, this is attributed to polarization. I'll dig up the reference later today.
What I'm getting at is: just like moving a wire through a magnetic field, or a magnet along a wire induces current (particle drift) in the wire, you can induce drift by applying this "force" perp to the conductor while apllying a magnetic field perp to both the force and the wire.
This brings up a question or two:
1. Why does drift keep occurring when you connect a wire across a battery?
2. Can you "enhance" the drift by external means?
Sorry Grumpy,
My mind has been a little preoccupied. I'm back.
I guess I don't know what you mean by drift when a wire is connected across a battery. I'm scratching my head. You mean something other than the current flow I imagine.