Ok... I haven't built this but once you understand the experiments done with a neosphere and a Rodin Coil (ridiculously high RPMS) then you'll understand that with high end wind turbines you can produce a massive amount of energy with little investment. This idea is free to the world. People shouldn't be making money off this... it's how we got into the situation we're in now and that is called Greed my friends.
Now imagine only 1 shaft coming off the Neosphere.... and done in a star pattern around the inside circle of the Rodin... then have the same thing underneath the rodin coil. Imagine the production!
Quote from: jadon1979 on September 23, 2010, 01:25:06 AM
Now imagine only 1 shaft coming off the Neosphere.... and done in a star pattern around the inside circle of the Rodin... then have the same thing underneath the rodin coil. Imagine the production!
I think you will find that this setup will lack the torque necessary to drive a standard turbine type generator. You have to make your generator Lenzless for this to work properly, and keep the mass you are driving down;)
Cheers,
Twinbeard
I believe with the higher revolution wind turbines I'd actually have to increase the rotor size to decrease the torque. This way I could setup a gearing type system and add an array of wind turbines. I've played around with some of them and it's very little torque. The sphere will do at least 20k rpm by itself.
Quote from: jadon1979 on September 23, 2010, 02:16:39 AM
I believe with the higher revolution wind turbines I'd actually have to increase the rotor size to decrease the torque. This way I could setup a gearing type system and add an array of wind turbines. I've played around with some of them and it's very little torque. The sphere will do at least 20k rpm by itself.
Have you played with them under load?
Here, look:
http://www.youtube.com/user/piratetwinbeard
I have a sphere at somewhere around 3.2 Million RPMs...
You still have to bypass Lenz drag.
Cheers,
Twinbeard
Drag would be a good thing... depending on the RPM you're able to pull out of the wind turbines you might burn them out. I do not know how to do the math for figuring how many revolutions you'd get out of (example) 20mph wind... the point would be to achieve max output of the turbine without going over it. I know many variables come into play on this but I do not see it being anywhere near the RPM that this could potentially push out (which will more than likely be a few thousand easily with torque considered)
Quote from: jadon1979 on September 23, 2010, 02:30:13 AM
Drag would be a good thing... depending on the RPM you're able to pull out of the wind turbines you might burn them out. I do not know how to do the math for figuring how many revolutions you'd get out of (example) 20mph wind... the point would be to achieve max output of the turbine without going over it. I know many variables come into play on this but I do not see it being anywhere near the RPM that this could potentially push out (which will more than likely be a few thousand easily with torque considered)
Not sure you quite understand what I am getting at... Lenz will stall your rotor out once you start drawing power from your output stage, unless you use one of the very clever methods available to make him work for you instead of against you. Watch the videos... learn a few things;) No off the shelf generator will have the properties you need. At very minimum you will need to rewind and tune the coils.
Cheers,
Twinbeard
You are understanding what is going on here right? The Rodin Coil is causing the Neosphere to spin inside of the Casing.... the neosphere acts like a rotor.... the rods are attached to the Neosphere and mounted to the prop for the wind turbine. We're replacing wind with the rod... which in this case to save some cash will probably be plastic ones. The Rodin receives from one of the wind turbines. The generators are not in contact with the magnetic field of the Rodin. There would need to be a storage medium between generator A and the Rodin and some nifty voltage regulation. How will lenz stall the rotor?
Quote from: jadon1979 on September 23, 2010, 02:54:09 AM
You are understanding what is going on here right? The Rodin Coil is causing the Neosphere to spin inside of the Casing.... the neosphere acts like a rotor.... the rods are attached to the Neosphere and mounted to the prop for the wind turbine. We're replacing wind with the rod... which in this case to save some cash will probably be plastic ones. The Rodin receives from one of the wind turbines. The generators are not in contact with the magnetic field of the Rodin. There would need to be a storage medium between generator A and the Rodin and some nifty voltage regulation. How will lenz stall the rotor?
Watch the videos, lad. You will see how well I know whats going on;) Lenz will stall you in your output stage. The counter MMF will bring your rotor to a halt quicklike because of the mechanical linkage to the prime mover, as soon as you put that output stage on load. That is, unless you both wind your coils so they act capacitively such that they will phase shift the output AND create a relatively low reluctance flux path between the prime mover and the output stage. That means you have to rewind your coils, and you still have to hit a minimum frequency threshold of about 1000hz to do so. I am not trying to discourage you... in fact, the quality of your model is why I bothered to respond. There are details you are not seeing which will cause what you diagrammed to fail without you fully understanding them. Also, you are going to melt right through that lexan at high frequency. Trust me on that one; I speak from experience.
Not trying to be argumentative.. saying that first off... and thanks for the model comment... I threw it together in max.
Now: Maybe I am misunderstanding you.... I am performing the same exact thing the wind is. Unless I am reading you wrong... I have been reading up on Lenz but do not understand how it's a serious factor in base model. If I buy a wind turbine... replace the back tire on a stationary bike with it.. it will produce. I can store that energy... instead of a bike chain I have a system that produces many more revolutions. The rotor on the generator can't stall. I'm not passing any Electricity to the generator... I'm just turning it's prop to produce electricity. In the meantime till I can get said turbines I plan on building homemade generators. They will act the same exact way... turn the wheel .. produce..
Again, I'm not trying to be argumentative I'm just trying to get a read on what you're saying. If I apply what you're saying about this design then I have to apply it to all wind turbines and that they will all stall.
P.S. You should look my name up on here I have a few really cool models up.
Quote from: jadon1979 on September 23, 2010, 02:54:09 AM
You are understanding what is going on here right? The Rodin Coil is causing the Neosphere to spin inside of the Casing.... the neosphere acts like a rotor.... the rods are attached to the Neosphere and mounted to the prop for the wind turbine. We're replacing wind with the rod... which in this case to save some cash will probably be plastic ones. The Rodin receives from one of the wind turbines. The generators are not in contact with the magnetic field of the Rodin. There would need to be a storage medium between generator A and the Rodin and some nifty voltage regulation. How will lenz stall the rotor?
Lenz acting in the regular wind turbine will stall your rotor. As always. Of course if the generators are under load. If the generator is not under load it's useless. In your case a rodin coil alone is already a load.
So... you're saying.... If I take a wind turbine... hook it up in a manner to power a lightbulb... start spinning the blades... that it will lock because the light bulb is a load?
I'm not trying to be sarcastic with that question. I'm just trying to clarify that is what you're telling me.
Obviously there will be an initial input to get it going (spin the hub - like the wind would
Quote from: jadon1979 on September 23, 2010, 03:23:10 AM
Not trying to be argumentative.. saying that first off... and thanks for the model comment... I threw it together in max.
I remember using max 15 years or so ago... release 2. I have a brother at autodesk.
Quote from: jadon1979 on September 23, 2010, 03:23:10 AM
Now: Maybe I am misunderstanding you.... I am performing the same exact thing the wind is. Unless I am reading you wrong... I have been reading up on Lenz but do not understand how it's a serious factor in base model. If I buy a wind turbine... replace the back tire on a stationary bike with it.. it will produce.
Yes, it will produce, and you will have to pedal harder with it under load than with an open circuit.
Quote from: jadon1979 on September 23, 2010, 03:23:10 AM
I can store that energy... instead of a bike chain I have a system that produces many more revolutions. The rotor on the generator can't stall.
ahh. now there is our miscommunication, and it is likely my fault. by rotor, I meant the rotor of the prime mover... the sphere.
Quote from: jadon1979 on September 23, 2010, 03:23:10 AM
I'm not passing any Electricity to the generator... I'm just turning it's prop to produce electricity. In the meantime till I can get said turbines I plan on building homemade generators. They will act the same exact way... turn the wheel .. produce..
Again, I'm not trying to be argumentative I'm just trying to get a read on what you're saying. If I apply what you're saying about this design then I have to apply it to all wind turbines and that they will all stall.
P.S. You should look my name up on here I have a few really cool models up.
Not so... the wind puts in an external energy source. It is an open loop system, but I think the miscommunication about WHICH rotor was causing the problem.
Cheers,
Twinbeard
Quote from: jadon1979 on September 23, 2010, 04:17:40 AM
So... you're saying.... If I take a wind turbine... hook it up in a manner to power a lightbulb... start spinning the blades... that it will lock because the light bulb is a load?
I'm not trying to be sarcastic with that question. I'm just trying to clarify that is what you're telling me.
Obviously there will be an initial input to get it going (spin the hub - like the wind would
Wind turbine powerd by wind - open system - you add energy to the system - energy provided by the wind blowing.
Your generator - closed system - 1 motor - 2 generators - no energy added - it will stop.
Rodin coil alone is not an energy amplifier. Or maybe I don't know about something ? Who cares how fast the ball spins. It spins fast but the torque is small.
The Rodin is more of a "Field Generator" than an "Electrical Generator". I've seen experiments done where the sphere is floating in the free space inside the vortex of the Rodin coil. One of which a hand was placed on the sphere and it still spun under all that added friction. The rods attached to the sphere go from generator to generator. I do not know if you would classify this sphere as a rotor. It is not touching anything but the rods and is only influenced by it's magnetic field vs the Rodin's magnetic field. Due to the Rodin's unique winding the only issue with this design is when the sphere loses it's magnetic field or the bearings go out on the wind turbines.
As long as the voltage to the Rodin is regulated the sphere will keep spinning. As long as the sphere is spinning in a manner to meet the minimum requirements of the generators to produce then it will continue producing. Until the 1 of the 2 events I listed occur.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvgteaL33F0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6n1L19YEkeU
Make sure to turn your speakers down for this one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xhyrVqfoDk
Hi Jadon,
I appreciate your enthusiasm. Build it, and tell us what you get. IF you do not get the results you expect, read what I wrote above carefully, and you might just get there.
Cheers,
Twinbeard
Quote from: jadon1979 on September 23, 2010, 05:57:43 PM
The Rodin is more of a "Field Generator" than an "Electrical Generator". I've seen experiments done where the sphere is floating in the free space inside the vortex of the Rodin coil. One of which a hand was placed on the sphere and it still spun under all that added friction. The rods attached to the sphere go from generator to generator. I do not know if you would classify this sphere as a rotor. It is not touching anything but the rods and is only influenced by it's magnetic field vs the Rodin's magnetic field. Due to the Rodin's unique winding the only issue with this design is when the sphere loses it's magnetic field or the bearings go out on the wind turbines.
As long as the voltage to the Rodin is regulated the sphere will keep spinning. As long as the sphere is spinning in a manner to meet the minimum requirements of the generators to produce then it will continue producing. Until the 1 of the 2 events I listed occur.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvgteaL33F0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6n1L19YEkeU
Make sure to turn your speakers down for this one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xhyrVqfoDk
lol I do not know if I'd dub it enthusiasm. I think it's closer to lunacy. Over the past few weeks it's been like a vale has been lifted. It's obsession now. I do not have any wind turbines to use so I'll have to make my own generators. I have an idea in my head what I'm gonna do. The shaft itself will not be touching anything. It will be floating on repulsion. Either way I have no doubt it will work and hope to have a video to prove it at a later time. One experiment I would be interested in trying is this:
Since the sphere reaches such a high RPM when it's within a few inches above the center of the Rodin..... How much more RPM if another Rodin was placed a similar distance above the sphere. Is it possible to double the RPM of the sphere doing this? Would be interesting to see. The only reason the casing is there is because I wanted to wrap it in copper also to see what kind of voltage I would get off of it. So let's say it works. That's generator A & B producing, Generator A is split off to a regulator that pushes to the Rodin Coil... whatever is left over could go other places.. like a capacitor so you don't have to spin the generator a few good times with your hand to get it going.... Generator B is excess to do whatever with.
Since it doesn't take a lot of voltage to produce a strong magnetic field out of the Rodin.... I believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that we're on the verge of finishing the puzzle.
Quote from: jadon1979 on September 24, 2010, 02:40:09 AM
I think it's closer to lunacy.
Unfortunatelly I do agree on this one ;]
We shall see. The Rodin coil is the key to the whole thing. If it weren't for that then I would have agreed with all of the statements prior.
I do hope you understand this isn't meant to just magically start off... you have to spin it to get it going and once it's going it'll operate as I've stated. The field is strong enough to generate the torque necessary to "mock the wind" and turn the generator hub.
I know.. I can talk till I'm blue in the face.... it won't matter. I just need to get it built already .... and slap up a video for it. In the meantime .... could you go get a 1" neosphere ... and build yourself an 8" rodin. Put some voltage to the Rodin while holding the sphere in your hand? It would be a nice head start for you building one after I show you that it works... :)
P.S. Just in case you thinking about doing what I said with the sphere in your hand .... don't..... I mean... I know it would prove me right about the torque.... I just don't think it would end up so good for you.
The rodin coil is a great thing. At least in the sense that it is responsible for sparking my interest in electronics and energy research. The very first thing I did with any wire whatsoever, was wind a rodin coil because of some youtube videos I saw last year. :) Granted I also used the very same coil to completely roast my first variable voltage power supply because I wasnt protecting it from the massive high voltage spikes I was sending back from the collapsing field lol
Unfortunately I didnt see any way of extracting useful energy out of it, and have long since moved on to many of the interesting and promising projects that are still undecided here on the ou forums.
The Rodin Coil and Marko's quacky mathematics are at the very least raising awareness to the possibility of alternate energy sources and the possibility that we may just "have it wrong".
I agree. That coil is no magic bullet. It has interesting properties, but thats about it. There is quite a bit more to the puzzle to make COP > 1 systems.
Quote from: void109 on September 24, 2010, 12:56:51 PM
The rodin coil is a great thing. At least in the sense that it is responsible for sparking my interest in electronics and energy research. The very first thing I did with any wire whatsoever, was wind a rodin coil because of some youtube videos I saw last year. :) Granted I also used the very same coil to completely roast my first variable voltage power supply because I wasnt protecting it from the massive high voltage spikes I was sending back from the collapsing field lol
Unfortunately I didnt see any way of extracting useful energy out of it, and have long since moved on to many of the interesting and promising projects that are still undecided here on the ou forums.
The Rodin Coil and Marko's quacky mathematics are at the very least raising awareness to the possibility of alternate energy sources and the possibility that we may just "have it wrong".
I would hope no one would take the last 2 comments as a reason to NOT experiment with the coil. I don't think these guys are being the way I'm about to describe - Too many people think "Well, I couldn't get it to work so it must be impossible" and they discourage others from doing so. It's part of the problem that "mainstream science" suffers. Our current way of living would not be if it weren't for "accidental" discoveries. Always think outside of the box. You just might find that one variable everyone else was missing. One of our biggest fears should be to give up or limit ourselves because of someone Else's short sightedness or vanity.
P.S. Those "quaky mathematics", as you so nicely put, inspired me to start writing a compression agent. There are still a few bugs on decompressing I have to work out but the compression results alone destroy anything out there right now. If I can crack the last part of the decompression then you'll more than likely be using this in one form or another in the near future (and I will be living very comfortably). Maybe you prejudged it because of the other things he floated in his presentations. He's not the best presenter.
I certainly dont want to discourage anyone from looking into and finding a use for the rodin coil, it does have interesting effects that I dont believe are being employed anywhere. I do take some issue with what you said, such as:
Quote from: jadon1979Our current way of living would not be if it weren't for "accidental" discoveries.
Two men whom you may think are examples are not. Edison and Tesla. Edison was the experiment first, theory second, but he was quite methodical in his approaches, there werent any accidents. Tesla was the man who went for theory first, experiment second, also there wasnt any accident in his methodology. The accidental discovery is the outlier not the mean.
Quote from: jadon1979Those "quaky mathematics", as you so nicely put
I was very much interested in this idea of 'vortex based mathematics' as I've always toyed with the idea that we have 'it all wrong'. However, nowhere, could I find ANYTHING defining any kind of axiomatic systemetized language to define this vortex based mathematics. Just him and various others saying, this plus this is that, therefore this and that divided by those equals the name of god...
If you found some resource that actually puts definition to this thing, please for the love of his god, post the url :)
First glance, I thought, he's a genius! Finally a new Tesla! After watching countless hours of videos and pouring over the web it became: boy, he sounds crazy, and some things are illogical that are being said, however, often genius and madness are two sides of the same coin... Lets just listen and watch. Ultimately after I was sufficiently saturated with nonsensical gibberish it just boiled down to: he's freaking crazy and he found a cute way to wind a coil. I personally dont believe he understands what he is saying (although I'm absolutely sure he thinks he does). I'll admit, blushingly, this realization was heartbreaking for me, but I did pick up a new interest: energy research, so I'll always have that to thank him for.
Now none of this is saying there wont be some interesting and novel use for the rodin coil. It just strikes me as a bunch of mystical hocus pocus.
And lastly:
Quote from: jadon1979Those "quaky mathematics", as you so nicely put, inspired me to start writing a compression agent.
I'd be interested to know what about the mathematics was inspiring as I wasn't able to find them defined anywhere. (Not just pages of numbers, pictures and such). I'm also a software engineer, and I've been over the material he's made available on the web a few times, and I dont see any application being derived from it. But I might be missing the bigger picture.
After writing this, I'm realizing that this might be sore spot with me, and I just didnt realize it haha. It was my first investment of time toward an energy project, and my first disappointment of many in OU research. It's like the first girlfriend you lost, you'll always remember her face, bitter-sweet memories :)
PS: I have seven different shades of coil hand wound myself in my office. I'm not just quacking from my armchair, I've built them repeatedly for various purposes. They are interesting, and I'm sure I'll keep tinkering off and on with them in the future. Sorry for the rambling rant, I slept in today and for some reason I have a lot to say right now.