To Bruce and anyone else that cares!  LOL

Not defending anyone, but your statements above are incorrect.  Electrons travel slower through iron then through copper.  Slower through copper wire than silver plated.  Etc.

Personally, all here, would have time better spent working on Ossie and Luc's circuit.  It is producing cold electricity IMHO.  Lots of avenues for experimentation with  those who are more astute as to what is happening.  I am in the middle of a critical build, or I too would be hands on.  If any of you build the circuit given by Luc or Ossie, or Hacker and would like some "interesting" areas of experimentation, PM me.  I will not respond unless you have built it and have it working.

Cheers all,

Bruce

Sorry Bruce, but you're wrong.  Now we're in my ballpark, Physics!  Electrons themselves in different metals move ("wiggle") at different speeds depending on the number of free electrons per unit length and a host of other factors we really don't need to cover without getting to technical, not really related to these plasma circuits and BORING, but the actual speed ("wiggle") of an electron is very slow on the order of .02 mm/sec if I remember correctly.  If you are really interested, PM me and I'll do all the calculations for you to illustrate it.

Electricity on the other hand, contrary to what we were taught as children, isn't really the flow of electrons, because they really don't physically flow or move through a wire.  Electricity is a propagated electromagnetic wave and travels near, but not quite, the speed of light. 

But just for the sake of argument, let's just say different conductors propagate an electromagnetic wave at different speeds, but will still be near the speed of light.  Do you really think S1R's coils could "slow down" a propagated electromagnetic wave so much that it compensates for the difference in timing on a motor rotating at most of 7000 RPM?  That revolutions per minute... that's not even in the same galaxy as approximately 186,000 miles per second, let alone being in the same ballpark!  Nuff said!

Geo

By the way, it is actually almost starting to annoy me as to the plasma arc and water, running a car being called the S1R idea, experiment, theory, project, concept, etc.!  This was done in the early 1950's ('51 or '52 I think) by Adam Crawford of Scotland, and he supposedly did have an automobile running on tap water using a plasma arc. 

Supposedly it was even broadcasted on Scottish television, but was either suppressed, not taken seriously or for whatever reason, was lost for many years.  If anything, this should be called the Adam Crawford Project to Give Credit Where Credit Is Due or simply call it a Plasma Arc Watercar!

This is not a S1R "thingy" especially from a guy who has played the game for 3 years with no proof whatsoever about an El Camino, and only after recent REAL plasma arc circuits created by Luc, Ossie, Capacitor70, myself, XBox, JCBX, and others, did he finally show a video with a Briggs and Straton motor only idling on water.  Did it rev up?  Could it rev up? 

Whatever... Capacitor70 and JCBX have done just as much as S1R and actually a helluva lot more, since they designed the circuits themselves.  My guess Luc, Ossie and I know I will be able to join the ranks of getting a motor to run on tap water very soon.  It's all just a short matter of time before we all start doing it!  Let's keep the FOCUS on the right thing and not be distracted by BS!

Regards,
Geo

Quote from: geovel56 on July 10, 2008, 10:58:09 PM
(Snip)

But just for the sake of argument, let's just say different conductors propagate an electromagnetic wave at different speeds, but will still be near the speed of light.  Do you really think S1R's coils could "slow down" a propagated electromagnetic wave so much that it compensates for the difference in timing on a motor rotating at most of 7000 RPM?  That revolutions per minute... that's not even in the same galaxy as approximately 186,000 miles per second, let alone being in the same ballpark!  Nuff said!

Geo

@Geo

I never said, nor agreed to the S1R information.  I was making a point that Iron CAN delay a pulse, and Silver plated wire WILL allow a faster pulse.  Electricity does not move at the same speed regardless of the conductor.  Sorry.  And you can keep your physics books on the shelf, for I do not think they will have much to say about cold electricity either, considering they do not even acknowledge its existence.  The point I was making is that you said iron would not delay a pulse and I say that I know for a FACT that is not true.      It is important for other reasons for people to understand this fact.

You would be better off hanging up your physics books for a bit and reading Aspden, or Linderman and then doing some bench work to determine what really is "real" and what is just as "real" but as yet undiscovered.     Or read Gerry Vassilatos describe Tesla's discovery of Radiant electricity and how similar that is to what is taking place in Luc's and Ossies circuit.  But surely you know all of this already, seeing how physics is your specialty.  Tell us, what makes the spark so special?  Why does it get cold or cooler than hotter?  What is the significance of the HV on top of the LV?  Why are the Diodes so important in the setup, not in an electronics way, but because of the physics of cold electricity production?

Hmm...   Not in the physics books?

Good luck,

Bruce 

I think the main problem with the coil replication right now is the MAIN WIRE need to be uninsulated. I know some say that not make sense but its maybe what we are missing, I will try the coil this week end as described, without the insulation on the main wire.

Its maybe why no one are able to reproduce the effect, I imagine that create a new effect different from a insulated wire.

@ Bruce,

For one, I have built a circuit I am testing, how about you?  Second, an uninsulated BARE WIRE in a coil touching another winding is a dead short... period!  It's not going to DELAY anything... are you a complete moron or just partially?  Why don't you actually read what I wrote intead of running your mouth with inane drivel. 

I said there is no way the electricity going through that coil could EVER slow down the propagated electromagnetic wave enough to compensate for not having to change the timing of the motor as stated by S1R.  I also said even if there is a difference between one metal's propagation speed, they are all near the speed of light which isn't even in the same galaxy, let alone the same ballpark of speed differential required as S1R claimed.  Next time be more careful what you say.  It is far better to be silent and be thought of as a fool, than to open your BIG mouth and prove it!

Third, Luc invited me to his forum as one of the pioneers, in fact I believe Ossie came in the day after I did.  I was invinted because he knows I have put together a team to work on this.  We have 2 donor cars, a 1974 Chevy Blazer and a 1998 Ford Windstar.

Our goal is to get the Blazer working first, take all the necessary measurements and collect the pertinent data which would be necessary for a car like the Windstar with its computer and pollution crap, to effectively either create circuits to fool the computer into thinking it is running on gasoline, or to create a plug and play module to replace the computer altogether.  My group has unanimously agreed that everything we do, tests, failures, successes, trials and tribulations will all be reported as they occur on an ongoing basis to keep everyone informed and to keep it all PUBLIC DOMAIN.

Both Luc and Ossie came up with outstanding circuits and we as a group have been trying to enhance them and keep that forum focused on the taks at hand without "crapster" distractions.

Now to explain why the spark plug is cold and not hot and also why the water is not hot... it is almost identical to Peter Graneau's replication of an experiment done in the very early 1900's... 1907 I believe.  What is happening is this is a cold dense fog reaction to a plasma arc.  The fog is generated at the point where the plasma arc comes in contact with water droplets (ionization).  Fog droplets are many times smaller than water droplets.  The cold dense fog droplets and spaced apart from each other.  The smaller the fog droplets are, the more bond energy per unit mass is liberated and more strongly the droplets repel each other. 

The "tearing" of the liquid water molecule is accomplished by overcoming the Ampere tension forces of the water droplet.  This is easily done because the energy required to overcome this force is on the order of a fraction of a joule.  A plasma arc easily accomplishes this.

The energy flow through the fog is ionized, but does NOT heat the water, but rather the energy is stored electrostatically and then the ions recombine after the explosion back into water droplets.  Ionization is an energy absorbing action.  During the explosion, the water molecules do NOT undergo a chemical change, and the energy stored is due to the intermolecular bond energy per unit mass.  The reserve energy is equal to the latent heat energy of evaporation.

This is NOT an instantaneous disassociation of water into its components of hydrogen and oxygen and burned, it is not any type of hydrolysis or steam reaction.  This is NOT a thermal reaction, it is NOT a chemical combustion reaction.

IT IS an electrostatic/electrodynamic mechanical energy phenomenon.  Very similar to Lightening and Thunder in the atmosphere.  Water is a very very peculiar substance with an incredible amount of energy potential.

Since the is no combustion/burning of anything, there is no heat generated.  The temperature of the recombined water droplets after the explosion is very close to the ambient temperature of the water and dense fog prior to the plasma arc hitting it.  The speed at which the fog is exploded initially is at supersonic speeds and a sonic boom is both heard and felt, just like thunder after a big lightning bolt flashes.

This is a cold temperature event, not hot or even warm.  Part of the reason the spark plugs are not hot and even cold, as Ossie has reported from his tests, is because of this phenomenon, as well as the recombination of water afterward causing an evaporation effect along with very high fog/water molecules being propelled cooling it off.  It was also noted in Graneau's experiment that he believes the output energy released was greater than the input.

That's the most basic way I can explain it, although there is quite a bit more to it.  I think this should give you, and everyone else a good understanding of the effect.

Now, don't EVER tell me to hang up my Physics books again!  Just be a man and admit you were wrong in stating the delay in a propagated electromagnetic wave could EVER be slowed down enough to account for the effect S1R is claiming.  How absolutely ridiculous!  It's even more ridiculous than comparing how fast an olympic sprinter runs the 100 meter dash to the speed of a bullet from a gun!   The time differential isn't even close!

But PLEASE, build his coil with the uninsulated BARE WIRE windings touching each other as his picture shows, and tell me there isn't a dead short.  The electricity will NOT go around the coil, but straight across the bare wires in contact with each other, so the coiled wire means nothing.  Better yet, test it with your tongue and report to us what happened!  LMAO

Geo