Wow its odd how things go full circle: If the plasma won't "ignite" water it doesn't directly touch... Then are we back to the Meyer patents?... A water mist injecting, plasma -arc generating "plug" that ignites electrolyzer-created HHO to get it done with sufficient power and authority? The "exploding" water (or whatever its doing, lol) acts as the energy catalyst that the HHO would seem to need to be the most efficient? ...And thus manageable amounts of HHO are used and not the huge amounts that many predict are required to power a vehicle (...and that Meyer's cell obviously could not deliver alone).

Quote from: xbox hacker on July 11, 2008, 08:57:44 PM
The plasma shot that i used for my forum avatar, is from my design and a magneto form a B&S engine. I made a pickup like Cap70 did and will put it on the engine to trigger a standard ignition coil...then i might not have to spend $40 for a Accel coil.
I

Accel was under $30 from pep boys.

Good Luck, Larry

Quote from: jibbguy on July 11, 2008, 09:00:48 PM
Wow its odd how things go full circle: If the plasma won't "ignite" water it doesn't directly touch... Then are we back to the Meyer patents?... A water mist injecting, plasma -arc generating "plug" that ignites electrolyzer-created HHO to get it done with sufficient power and authority? The "exploding" water (or whatever its doing, lol) acts as the energy catalyst that the HHO would seem to need to be the most efficient? ...And thus manageable amounts of HHO are used and not the huge amounts that many predict are required to power a vehicle (...and that Meyer's cell obviously could not deliver alone).

I guess you are responding to Dr Stifflers comments:

QuoteYes indeed. you appear to understand and seem to have a handle on fact. Big discharge area with a very significant amount of input energy to support it.

The reaction id far from what a carbon based fuel flame front is. It is a localized condition and even though it results in a very specific and energetic response, it only responds to the area of excitation. This is a very important bit of science knowledge, but its not the manna from heaven for ICE engines.

I realised a while ago that this effect was going to raise huge problems for ICE.  The idea of converting our existing ICE fleet to water is exciting, but probably misguided.  In that respect, HHO probably is better. Big Oil will allow the use of Hydrogen vehicles, because they can sell hydrogen and control the technology and prices.  The Government will be right behind this - because any energy that can be Sold can be Taxed.  Don't underestimate the force that Big Oil and Big Government will exert to maintain their strangle hold.

The technical issues of rusting/corroding, hydraulicing and freezing will be enough to kill successful ICE conversions.  That's even before considering sparkplug design and timing systems and optimising combustion chambers.  (FWIW - you can lower the compression ratio by adding multiple head gaskets - and you can get camshafts ground to optimise performance - but I think the previous problems are enough of a buzz killer).   

So it that respect - I think conventional, underunity, hot HHO technology might emerge the winner, even though it's not the best.  The backyard tinkerers can probably make their own hydrogen - until the laws get changed and bootlegging  hydrogen becomes a Terrorist activity. 

For this reason you might want to consider converting ICE to compressed air instead. Could be a lot easier to do - especially if you don't bother with regenerating brake losses.  Gate the flow to each cylinder with a solenoid valve, and control speed with timed impulses of air pressure during the power stroke when both valves are shut.

The power of low-temp plasma water explosions could be used in a simple home-based air compressor.  (lightening & thunder in a box).

This would open the door to researching the best spark plug for creating explosions in a water tank.  I am suspecting a parabolic dish spark plug will be found to be best for this. 

Sorry to take this off topic - but I think it's an important reality check for ICE experimenters to know what they are up against.

IF you beleive the whole "Big Oil" "Government Conspiracy" theories, wouldn't that serve as more of an incentive to make this work? People could give up now and say "what's the point?" or they could continue down the current path. If you beleived in that theory, I would have thought giving up would be the last thing you would want to do? I know you're not talking about giving up entirely and I know very little about the idea of powering an ICE on compressed air, but using water to power a compressor to produce air to use in a car sounds rather inefficient compared to harnessing the power at the source.

Quote from: send_to_nice on July 11, 2008, 10:25:31 PM
IF you beleive the whole "Big Oil" "Government Conspiracy" theories, wouldn't that serve as more of an incentive to make this work? People could give up now and say "what's the point?" or they could continue down the current path. If you beleived in that theory, I would have thought giving up would be the last thing you would want to do? I know you're not talking about giving up entirely and I know very little about the idea of powering an ICE on compressed air, but using water to power a compressor to produce air to use in a car sounds rather inefficient compared to harnessing the power at the source.

I think you misunderstand me.  I am not giving up, or suggesting anyone else give up.  I am giving what I believe to be good advice (or at least something to consider for yourself).  Are you American?  It's pretty obvious to the rest of the world that the oil companies are holding the world to ransom.  Big oil money has bought and sold the governments of this world - anyone with half a brain can see this.  No conspiracy theories needed.  It's blatant and obvious.  The Bush family & Saudi Arabian friends wanted to preserve their oil empire - and look what they did to protect it.  This has nothing to do with what the American people wanted - and they are paying the price for it.  It's debatable whether the American people even fairly voted this tyrant in - because big oil money can buy anything, even votes.  Not that it really matters ... Meet the new boss - Same as the old boss ...

My suggestions are intended to save low budget inventors from wasting time and resources on the wrong things. 

I believe that there are those amongst us who want us to fail - and one way they can do that is to enthusiatically approve of ideas that they know will lead up a blind alley ...

I don't think water arc technology is a blind alley - I think big oil should be afraid.  So afraid, that they probably have infiltrated all forums such as these and are hell bent on diverting them down blind alleys.