Quote from: CRANKYpants on November 20, 2008, 01:24:46 PM
THE ACCELERATION DOES NOT REQUIRE ANY ADDITIONAL INPUT POWER - IN FACT IT REQUIRES LESS..

1/4 HP DC MOTOR = 10 - 15 WATTS
1/3 HP INDUCTION MOTOR = 200 - 400 WATTS
5 HP GAS LAWNMOWER ENGINE = 3730 WATTS
90 HP DIESEL ENGINE = 20,000 WATTS

T

Yes, I understand what you're saying. And what I'm asking, is what input power you're running before any acceleration occurs (which does not require any additional input). Is that ryobi a 1/4 HP? So is it drawing 10-15 watts? You said your output was 8.2w at 2900 RPM. So, peak efficiency best case from those numbers is ~80%?

I understand that it requires no additional input, so have you pushed the RPM's output past the input? I would think that would be an interesting experiment. How does input power react once RPM output power exceed's input power. Is this even possible? Does it draw more if reached, does it fail, etc...

QuoteWE CAN GET ACCELERATION FROM A COIL AT 200 RPM - PRODUCING LESS THAN 25 VOLTS USING LAMINATED CORES - SATURATION IS A NON ISSUE HERE BECAUSE THE VOLTAGE ACROSS THE LOAD (AND HV COIL VOLTAGE) CONTINUE TO INCREASE - THEY WOULD NOT INCREASE BEYOND SATURATION - IF THEY WERE SATURATING WHICH THEY ARE NOT.

Saturation is not a cut off point, you would still see an increase, but it would be smaller than when not saturated.  But, assuming there is no saturation (which I'm sure your right and there isn't) the effect of acceleration does not seem to increase the output beyond the input.  This means there is something that is restricting it.  A true Lenzless operation theoretically could go beyond the input, right? 

What happens when you remove the core?

Let me repeat it here as well  .

Thane have you ever thought of combining your work with Lindemann's work. His no back EMF motor would give much better results than the induction motor you're using now. No?

Quote from: broli on November 21, 2008, 06:50:13 PM
Let me repeat it here as well  .

Thane have you ever thought of combining your work with Lindemann's work. His no back EMF motor would give much better results than the induction motor you're using now. No?

I MIGHT IF HE WAS A MAN OF INTEGRITY. ALAS HE IS NOT, THIS CRITIQUE HAS NEVER BEEN UPDATED NOR HAS HE EVER BEEN TO THE LAB.
T

No Useful Output & Nothing Important
On Feb. 6, 2008, Peter Lindemann, DSc, writes: http://peswiki.com/index.php/Talk:Directory:Perepiteia_Generator_by_Potential_Difference_Inc#No_Useful_Output

I have reviewed all seven video links. In all fairness, I would like to say that Thane has built some nice demonstrations and spent a lot of time running experiments. That said, the films show nothing important. First of all, the films do not show enough detailed information to evaluate the demonstrations. Second, no free energy is shown. In fact, the generators are never shown producing any useful outputs. They are either shown producing voltage in "open circuit" mode, or they are shown in "short circuit" mode, where the generated voltage drops below one volt. So, ZERO WATTS are produced in either case.

The changes in mechanical drag are due to changes in inductance and hysteresis. Back in the 1980's, both John Bedini and I independently worked with "variable reluctance" generators. We both saw that these designs work like an inverse to a standard induction generator. That is, they produce maximum drag in "open circuit" mode, and minimum drag in "short circuit" mode. John found that the point of maximum benefit in this situation is to charge a battery, where the impedance of the generator "sees" the battery as a "near short circuit". Under these circumstances, the generator free-wheels and the battery charges quickly.

Unfortunately, Thane is not showing any useful benefits from the generator output. So, there is no "efficiency" to calculate because there is no output!

The real problem with these demonstrations has to do with his motor drive. The motor driving his system is a single phase induction motor. This type of motor has almost zero starting torque, and only produces its rated power at rated speed. So, the rated speed of his motor is probably in the neighborhood of 1725 RPM. Running this motor in the 100 RPM range converts 98% of the input electric power to HEAT. He says he has a capacitor in the input circuit to the motor, but this is never shown in schematic, so we don't know how it is hooked up. If the capacitor is connected in SERIES with the motor winding, it will act as a current limiter, and skew the power factor of the motor towards reactive power. This is fine, IF you want to limit the mechanical power of the motor as well. If the capacitor is connected in PARALLEL with the motor winding, it will act to produce reactive power for the motor locally, and reduce the amount of power it draws from the wall. But again, this would only be significant at rated speed.

The effect he shows when a magnetic field is applied to the motor shaft would be undetectable if he was operating the motor correctly. It is a very weak effect. It is probably caused by the external magnetic field interfering with the induced magnetic field of the rotor. This would not happen if the motor coils were not being severely current limited and the rotor was not "slipping" severely in the rotating magnetic field of the stator.

My GUESS is that the capacitor is in SERIES with the motor winding. This will limit the current to the motor to a specific maximum. At the speeds he is running these motors, the only other mechanism to hold back the input current would be the resistance of the wire in the motor coils. If that is all he had, the motor would quickly over-heat and melt the insulation right off the wire. The fact that the motor is running hot is proved in the seventh film where a large black fan is shown blowing on the motor!

From the data presented, my best estimate of the efficiency of the demonstrations is that over 90% of the energy going into the motor is converted to heat. The changes in drag of the generators is standard behavior for variable reluctance topologies, so accelerations or decelerations of the motor DO NOT represent energy production, just changes in HYSTERESIS DRAG. Since no output energies are ever measured, the input to output efficiency ratio is ZERO.

Thane Heins may have more important discoveries in his lab, but they are not demonstrated in these videos.

I'm really sorry to have to comment negatively on Thane's work. He is exploring a new effect, and he is pretty brave to put out his data. It took John and I years to figure out what these kinds of generators were really doing and why. It is not obvious, and it takes a lot of experimenting and thinking to work it out.

Thane really needs to show the complete schematic of his test apparatus, including the strength and orientation of the magnets on his generator wheel, as well as the specifications on his drive motor. There is a lot of important data missing from the demos.

PL is a very smart doctor, see what his library consists of



(esotheric and money-making  )