Quote from: Magluvin on March 31, 2011, 02:42:23 AM
hey Tek

Either Im an idiot and still cant see it yet like a fool, or what Im seeing and reading today has just put me into the 4th dimension of twilight zone.

Something is fishy.  This 50% eff is just nuts.  How do we get anywhere near cop with this in mind.

From the explanation, it takes work to charge the cap.  I always thought that as long as the caps voltage level is lower than the source, that it would gladly accept additional charge to equal the source. Where is the work in that. The source sees an empty or even partially empty cup. I would think the leveling out is a release of unbalanced tensions. The source has to do 2 times the work to get the 1 thing done from what they say.  What da heck. I do not buy that.  We better have cop8 or we aint gunna do nuthin but drain our batteries using caps..
Im exaggerating a bit. But im angry.  Again  Fishy fishy.

Anyone remember the Barney Miller episode where the asian guy ate the marijuana brownies by mistake?  lol  Remember what he kept saying?  Mushy Mushy.    That was his way of saying fishy fishy. =]

Woopy,  this is very awkward, no?  How can these things make no sense, unless there is something wrong with what we know and understand.  I have never run into something like this in all my experience. 

We have gone from having what we might think of as 130%eff, to "we dont really know nuthin at all" all in one day? We found that capacitors are just beyond our comprehension.
Have you ever heard before that it is a 50%eff transfer from batt to cap?


Fishy fishy fishy freekin fishy




Mags marina del fishy

But Mags what do you think of my proposed experiment?

Hey Tek
Well from what im seeing today, i cant say i trust anything at the moment. I understand that if we are open minded that we see things beyond what is in the books.
I can see how if things are flawed on purpose, that there are and were people that are smart enough to design the whole system as they present it, and everything works the way they want it. From design to product, we have all the formulas and knowledge to accomplish things with great predictability. I believe They could be that smart to get it all to work very well, with all the alterations intended to shadow the goodies.
Why are we having issues with cap charging? Why does the sim show a micron of loss in transfer, but the site claims 50%loss, we have seen an apparent 50% loss. The sim cant be that far off, or nothing would work at all with any circuit. Just a simple charge a cap from a battery through a 100 ohm resistor, and discharge the cap through a resistor, and scoped the source. There was no difference in the resistor measurements, and the scope shots were identical for charge and discharge. But the source shot had shown a .12mw more from the source than what the resistors read.  I cannot see that the sim is that far off, cant be, not for such a simple thing. And I have used the sim for 555 designs, and others that when I really built it, it worked perfectly. So I dont buy it, not yet, not right now.  Fishy

I think that if heat is the way to go, I could collect my lunch money fer that calorometer, and try.  i wish I had all the necessary equipment to do things.  Can we make one?

Gotta get to sleep.  Fishy

Mushy Mushy

"We use HALF the energy to kill the source dipole" Bearden
If we continue to Woopy water analogy : one pressurised tank with water is opened and water flow to second tank, both connected and pressure is equalized. So imho if there WAS as water flow then pressure in each container is lower then in original one.Energy in each one is 1/2 because energy is pressure.Energy is not lost.

However :
1. in electric circuit electrons do not move, amperage is just a flow of energy
- there is no empty capacitor ! , electrons are there just in equal "pressure" on both terminals
2. energy in capacitor is dependant on voltage SQUARED
3. can we have capacitor charged partially ? I mean I have two caps : one rated 1uF/400V and second 1uF/63V both charged to 24V for example.Does it mean we have the same amount of energy and charge in both ?
I think, yes - but I'm not sure.

Quote from: forest on March 31, 2011, 04:47:06 AM
"We use HALF the energy to kill the source dipole" Bearden
If we continue to Woopy water analogy : one pressurised tank with water is opened and water flow to second tank, both connected and pressure is equalized. So imho if there WAS as water flow then pressure in each container is lower then in original one.Energy in each one is 1/2 because energy is pressure.Energy is not lost.

However :
1. in electric circuit electrons do not move, amperage is just a flow of energy
- there is no empty capacitor ! , electrons are there just in equal "pressure" on both terminals
2. energy in capacitor is dependant on voltage SQUARED
3. can we have capacitor charged partially ? I mean I have two caps : one rated 1uF/400V and second 1uF/63V both charged to 24V for example.Does it mean we have the same amount of energy and charge in both ?
I think, yes - but I'm not sure.

Theory is the problem. We need absolute scientific proof......calorometer.

Hi Mag

Thank's for the big laugh this morning by imagining you eating your feet.

OK i made 4 small tests with inserting a 10 kohm (10000 ohms)resistor in the "believe circuit"

1- i put the resistor between the + of the charged main cap and the diode.  Results i loose the freewheeling effect and the 2 cap equalise at the half original voltage as per direct transfer.

2- i put away the diode and now the cap is between the + of the main charged cap and the inductor. Result is as per 1.

3- i put away the diode and the inductor and now the resistor is between the + of the charged cap and the + of the receiving cap. Result = 1 and 2.

4- finally i redo a simple direct transfer (without the resistor) and the result is as per 1,2and 3.

It is difficult to be very precise as the scope shot are measured at 25 volts and the space are very small between the marking. But what i can say is that a 10 kohm resistor seems to kill the freewheeling effect , but has no or very low effect on the direct transfer.

@Forest,
i like your idea that a cap is never empty . Can you further develop ?

@ TEK
i am not equipped to try your test sorry.

good luck at all

Laurent