Hi Mag

i made a lot of test with the sim and on the bench.

For info,It seems that i have to add a resistor (about 100ohm in the sim )in the circuit to have the same result in real life as per the sim (probably due to long wire and bad connections).
I get better results with the secondary of the MOT (19 Henry inductor and 107 ohms resistance)
From a 25 V source , i can get 23 volt in the receiver cap (10 uF ) and 2 volts in the source cap (10 uF ), if i let the process to completely drain.

But what i can say is when i use the official formula (1/2 x cap value x stored voltage ^2) we never go OU

So if your source cap is 10 uF 10 volt  the stored energy is 100 x 10 x 0.5 = 500 uj. if we divide it in 2 cap of 10 uF, each receiver cap will have
5 volt  and the formuly gives 5^2  x10 x 0.5 = 125 uj       that is  each cap stores only 1/4 of the energy of the source cap. Very bad indeed.

So each time you divide a cap in 2 cap of same capacity  , the voltage is divided by 2 in each cap, ...and as the voltage is a tension ( as a spring ) , the spring in each cap is 2 time less streched , and as the streching is calculated squared, 2 time less streching in a cap is squared less powerfull ...caramba bloody squared voltage !!


But what is interesting is that ,if we only consider the transfer from cap to cap  (directly) , As we decrease the voltage by 2 in each cap, the total stored energy is 50 % less and this transfer is only 50 % efficient. And the same transfer with the inductor and diode can reach 85 % on my bench . And more in the sim (up to 98 %).

So as you sayd,  it would be interesting to study how this increase in efficiency works, and if we can isolate or multiply it ?

Somebody spoke about an electrical pendulum effect ?

Any body an idea ?

good luck at all

Laurent

Hey Woopy

If the calculations are correct, and it actually is 1/2, then the flywheel is doing a very good job.

If the calculations are wrong, not your doing, then I think I know what is conveyed.

If we have 10uf 10v and we apply that to a 10ohm load, initial currents will be 1A and descending as the caps voltage goes down.

If we have 20uf 5v and we apply that to a 10ohm load, initial currents will be .5A and descending as the caps voltage goes down.

BUT, if we have 20uf 5v and we apply that to a 5ohm load, we are back to 1A initial, AND we are working with 20uf cap as compared to 10uv 10v.

And in all reality, the 20uf 5v should have a longer discharge into 10ohm than either of the above. Over time, till the cap is empty, is what will show what is right and what is wrong.

The load is important when considering the voltage applied.
A 9v transistor radio wont run on 5v batt, no matter how many 5v batteries we have in parallel. This is does not say that the 10 5v batteries dont hold as much energy than 5 10v batteries. It is just how you configure amp hours and voltages.



I believe we do have an equal amount of power when we do the split.
I dont see how I can possibly get the numbers I have, by actually loosing half the energy and then coming up with a gain. The only possible way to do that, is if we are able to get the flywheel going for free. Or maybe some of it is free.  We could say that what was lost was stored in the field(flywheel) and the extra that we gain is free. Something is free, thats for sure.

Do an experiment on the scope....

Charge a 10uf cap to 10v and put a 1000ohm resistor as a load and watch.
Then a 20uf at 5v across 500ohm resistor and watch. The 5v into the 500ohm should take as long to discharge over time vs 10uf 10v.  ;]

What would the calculations say that half is?  10uf 10v / 2 = 10uf 7.5v?  Maybe.  Either way, we have our lil flywheel doing nice tricks. ;]

Does that make sense?  You can use any values that you may have to do the experiment. These were just an example as in half here and double there.  ;]

Can you see what is going on here?  ;] 

THEY maybe have us convinced that if we use a 10ohm load in each case, we will assume that we only have half the energy.

This is all just theory woops.  But something in the calculations is not in our favor. ;] 

I should be able to put together a vid this week.

Thanks for continuing on with me woops and Forest. All data is good.  ;]

And thanks Infringer for the vote of confidence. We are going to need all the support we can get. Once we get things going, the creeps will come and confuse. Im just glad that things are as simple as they are, as it is easier to defend. ;]

There is some puzzle to all this though. The way that I got the 1001.25v was so simple, yet it took me 2 days to come up with the simple solution. It was a puzzle.  ;]

Mags

Hi Mag

As i am trying to understand all this matter , i force me to be convinced and to accept that this  "bloody voltage-squared " formula which is applicated to all kinetic energies in this world by THEM  and  is tought in all text books is real and works .

and my question is

- where come the      " squared "       from     in the formula I mean is it a real squared   or something less ?

- is it applicable in a pulse situation, i mean when we charge a cap , than stop the proces and than release the power stored to charge another cap ?

are we in a dynamic process where the "bloody formula " is in full action or are we in a special situation where we have to deal with potential ( not squared ) situation

Ok for tonight

goog thinking at all

Laurent

Ok folks.  this is getting nuts.  Good nuts.   ;]

Something that is strange is, the way we think about how a circuit works when we even see it in a schematic.  We forget things or we dont always see the "what ifs" in what is presented.

Remember me saying that it would be difficult to accomplish the switching and conversions of sometimes caps in parallel and then series throughout the process of running a starting source to the end result?

Well I was at work putting circuits together in my head. Well I decided to go against my instincts on something I had thought earlier. ;]

I have only the last part of the circuit to figure, and it is just a bunch of switching. And the timing for cutoff I think I will go with timing from a 555, possibly.

This sounds like we are making things worse. But the results are....

start with a 10uf "capacitance" at 1000v  and process that through 3 stages of Believe Circuit, and we get 1320v into a 10uf "capacitance"

I will disclose this week.  I have the switching down on the 3 stages, and its simple.  Im not pulling a tito here. I just want to see if anyone gets it. Its an important exercise for the mind. It will open a door that you have never walked through and the door is here for the opening.

Tito keeps showing us the radiant energy receivers. And I think that many know of these and believe that you can get free energy there, but wheres the beef?  Not everyone is interested in having 100 wire antenna in their back yards, as he suggested to make 100 of those circuits.  No fun and try portability with that one.
The believe circuit needs no antenna. Just inductors and 1 precharge to get it started. Maybe the antenna can give you the precharge if you dont have a source to begin with.

I am flabbergasted at the level we have gotten to this point. And guess what, with more switching, we can add more stages. 
And get this, with each stage we have less voltage each time. 
I dont believe for 1 single solitary second that we loose anything in power transfers. If there is any, I really dont care cuz I dont see it. 

Common woopy, I know you and forest will figure this out. Run the sim, and start with any voltage you wish, I just like high as we lose less from voltage drop of the diode overall.
Then run 3 stages, 1 at a time. after each stage, reset the sim, replace the caps with succeeding larger values of double previous and just edit the source to the last voltage gotten, as I have described earlier. But run 3 stages.

At the end, what do you do with a "capacitance" of 40uf at 350v to get 1320v into a 10uf cap.   If I told you that an 80uf "capacitance" at about 225v would give us even more, would you believe?  lol

Looks like we are losing here. lol   Just think.  My feet love me and no longer fear being on a plate.   

If you give in and cannot wait, I will tell.  Just give it a shot.  I have given some clear clues. But I wont tito anyone here.  Sorry Teets. Its just how it is.   

Thinking caps men, the party has begun.

Mags believes  You betcha

Well, it looks like Woopy is out for the night.

Well  here is the answer

If we have a 10uf cap at 1000v, we end up with 703v in 2 10uf caps when run through the believe circuit.
We parallel those caps to get 20uf at 703v. Now we use that as our new source in the believe circuit and have a 20uf for the receiver.

We get 2 20uf caps at 500v. Parallel them to get 40uf at 500v, and put an empty 40uf as the source. We run the circuit we get 2 40uf caps at 350v.  80uf tot at 350v

Now for the key.  In that last stage we need the source cap and the receiver cap, each 40uf, to be made of 2 20uf caps each parallel.
2 20uf caps parallel for the source and 2 20uf caps parallel for the receiver.  Got it?   ;]

So we have actually 4 20uf caps all at 350v. Now disconnect them and put them in series. BAM we have 1400v in a 10uf cap.

Like I said, it was a puzzle. I wrecked my brain to get to this position.

Just think, if I had just given up thinking it will never work, when really the gain was there the whole time, we just could not see it yet, or lets say use it. But we did find a way to use it, in the next stage. ;] 
But once we use the believe circuit 3 times to get what we can see as a definite gain, we are home free.  =] We no longer need external input to the circuit.  It compounds the gains as they are made.
So if we start with 1320v , the end result will be 1716v.  =]

Many may have given up at the sight of some physics calculations, or figuring 50% losses in each stage of transfer.  Dont believe that crap.
Do these tests your self, you will believe. Yup. ;]

So here it is folks. No doubt, some of my best work, probably in my lifetime.  I earned it. I didnt get the circuit from anyone, nor my theories, that have yet to be completed.   

Ill be on the bench.   Please, any questions, just ask. ;] 

Mags