Hi Gyula and Mariu
So the LEDs might not be such a good load to test if Lenz has vanished or not, since they work like diodes so they are not offically a resistive load?
Also Mariu, do you have that larger coil you stick magnets behind, in bifilar-wind? And, it is series-cancelling, so you get practically nothing from it in voltage, but when you add the magnets then is sort of jams the bloch wall forward like Gyual mentions with it "marching",  and this upsets the balance of  the coil (sort of) so that then the magnet behind the core, make the coil make some decent voltage - all the while no extra draw...
One thing is, what is the amperage created when the LEDs light up? It could be such low amperage that that is reason there is no lenz effect seen by ammeter....mabye rpm meter will show drop of 10 or 20 rpms that you can't really "see" with ammeter or scope showing the shapes...
Also Gyula mentions somehting about a diode bridge, across each coil, (I assume he means the bifilar) and then also the coil is connected series-adding and canceling-seires too...this would be neat thing if it is that easy to  take power out of coils lenz-free.,...
so: bifilar series cancelling winds, magnet of proper strength and distance behind core, and power comes out from both halves of bifilar at once into load using two diode bridges...

Hi guys

Yes, it is a lenz coil too. I have built other 3 to make sure of that. But anyway it is interesting  how it works. The rotor is NSNS; haven't tested yet on NNNN.

Quote from: konehead on February 24, 2012, 01:48:21 AM
Hi Gyula and Mariu
So the LEDs might not be such a good load to test if Lenz has vanished or not, since they work like diodes so they are not offically a resistive load? 

Hi Doug,

I agree, the strange thing is that LEDs behave as a load only when the AC peak voltage is higher across them then their forward voltage (3.1V for a single white LED) and when the AC voltage goes below that, then the LED behaves as open circuit just like an Si diode below 0.7V.  I attached a picture which includes a single cycle of an AC sine wave with 8V peak to peak amplitude and I show a LED pair connected in antiparallel.  The so called current 'caps' or 'hats' shown below the sine wave are meant to represent current and the horizontal width of these 'hats' indicate the time when the LEDs are able to conduct within a single AC cycle.  When the LEDs can conduct the current is limited by the R series resistor.
IF you connect all the LEDs uniformly i.e. all the anodes are joined and all the cathodes are joined to form a 'single big'  LED and then you connect this 'big' LED to such an AC voltage as shown then the real loading effect from this big LED would further be restricted to only a single current 'hat' within one AC cycle instead of the antiparallel case with the two current 'hats'.
(By the way those current 'caps or hats' waveforms I show in the picture could be seen by a scope across the resistor R.)

One more thing: if you use a full wave diode bridge without a puffer cap, then the rectified waveform looks like as two (positive) half sinewaves within one cycle and if you now load the bridge output with LEDs (uniformly connected of course, not antiparallel) then these LEDs still do NOT represent a full load on the original AC waveform because the half sinewaves will have amplitudes which will be below the LEDs forward voltage threshold, just like in the non-rectified case.  This is why a puffer capacitor is needed at the bridge output to store energy when the AC half waveforms are near the zero line or are less than the LEDs forward voltage.  So with the puffer capacitor in place the (uniformly) connected LEDs now represent a full load to the original AC waveform, in every single moment within a full cycle, as if they were a resistor.
I uploaded a second picture to show this diode bridge situation, substitute LEDs in place of the load resistor  (nothing special of course).


Marius,

Thanks for showing your coil style, this is not what I imagined yesterday,    I show in a picture below what I meant but probably in that case the induced voltage in your setup shown would be much less than what you find with your shown coils arrangement.
I assume you already tested a bifilar coil (as I show the bifilar coil with guiding two wires in parallel close to each other, the start of both wires are joined and left floating and the end of the wires are the output points) and maybe you found they give output but it is rather small, much less than what you have shown in the video yesterday?

Perhaps you may wish to test your LED array as a load with a diode bridge and a puffer capacitor  OR just use a single resistor instead of the LED array: the value of this resistor would be approximately  3V/(12*10mA)= 25 Ohm  try using any value between 22 to 47 Ohm and place the scope across it like you placed it across the LEDs in the video.

Thanks,  Gyula

Hi Gyula
Thank you for the detailed explanation.
A normal bifilar series canceling curent is giving me nothing on the output. This new coil I saw it first in one of Mr. R videos and he put a document on his site about this bifilar mirror image coil. This is just a picture from the patent; i cant upload it here.  I was going to look for it in the site but:
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Hi Mariu
What do you mean by "its a lenz coil too" - is this a typo, and you mean that it is a "no-lenz coil too"
or do you mean it does suffer from lenz?
That is interesting idea, to wind a coil in opposite directions on the core with it attached in middle seems like it should do some crazy things for sure - do you take out power through two FWBRS or diode bridges at once, one on one half, and other on other half?