I tried AlgoDoo before I started my sim.  It was fun, but frustrating to try to make a realistic ZED.

Quote from: neptune on August 21, 2012, 07:42:10 AM
@See3d. I am intrigued by your idea of a one layer model. Please give more detail. Are we talking about  a pod and one riser?

Were you able to download my PDF?  It has many details.
I am revising it today.  I will announce when the new version is available.
Yes, Pod and 1 layer in the riser.  Super simple.
  |''''|___|''''|  Riser
|__|_____|__| Tank

Oops. Looks like I forgot something...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khZtoyjF4aA

Quote from: neptune on August 21, 2012, 07:42:10 AM
@Mrwayne. On your website you say that there is to be a change of emphasis, and that you are now working on a simple basic table top model. I get the impression that you are still having problems with the data collection model, in that although it consistently demonstrates OU, it fails to meet some other criterion that you have set yourself, and for that reason you have not yet called in Mark Dansie. You may [or not ] wish to tell us more about that.
       I did say months ago that IMO a simple basic model would be more convincing to a casual observer, so this change of policy definately has a positive side. The new challenge is exciting, and I am sure there will be people who will rise to that challenge.
       One thing I found strange is this. Re the challenge model, I don`t think you gave any specification on the size of this model. And yet you say that gaps of a quarter or half an inch between ringwalls and risers will work OK. This is a bigger gap than in your Data collection model, yet I was envisaging a much smaller model would be built for the challenge. Could you please help to clarify this. I love the idea of a self acting water pump model, simpler than trying to generate electricity, and yet has a visible measurable output.
@See3d. I am intrigued by your idea of a one layer model. Please give more detail. Are we talking about  a pod and one riser?

Multi Question AHHHH my little brain.. just kidding.
The decision to do a parallel build - for a measureable system - is in case it takes much longer to wrap things up for Mark.
I have a lot the utmost respect for his teams bravery and efforts - and I am ready to wrap things up and move on to the next phase.

To be very clear - we are very overunity - it can be measured now - inputs and putputs - we are fighting external issues.

It started with fighting the check valves - remember when I said the capture system does not like to store and supply at the same time - well this is still and issue after the split of the accumulator - now we are bypassing the check valves to see if that is the issue.

We reduced the number of check valves - seemed to get better - we split the accumulators increased the pressure range - now we are bypassing the check valves - I will probably add pilot assisted spool valves - if it turns out to be the Check valve.

- we have 6750pounds of thrust and either the fluid does not go thru the check valve deign parameters - new blockage - sabotage lol - or we are bending the input shaft dead head - (cross beams needed) - the bypass today/tomorrow- will will tell us.

So - knowing we are having trouble with our hydraulic system - not the ZED - we entertained modification to the system - but decided since anew system might have as many issues - to split up - one team (and the challengers) to build the simple input out put desk top - to help our Presentations - or even better a self running system.

Bigger gap - we have done extensive work on the stroke and expansion capabilities of the layering system - it can handle larger gaps - which makes the system easier to build - and more output.

I personally would build the system a little larger than Webbys - if you are going for the $10K it is much more forgiving and has room to handle waste (losses) and better to control.

Wayne

Quote from: TinselKoala on August 20, 2012, 08:48:51 PM
I'm trying to figure out a lowfriction lightweight way to keep risers and stationary walls concentric without adding drag and of course with allowing air and water to pass freely.  I'm envisioning something like a Teflon "star" or "gear" with teeth pointing out and in, like a ring, that can slip over the inner tube and ride between it and the outer tube smoothly with loose clearance, preserving the interwall spacing and keeping everything concentric.

Haven't read to the end of the thread yet this morning, so please excuse me if this has already been mentioned:

Once the ZED is set up (initialized) you always have greater pressure in each inner annulus.  So the outermost annulus (water ring in this case) contains the lowest pressures.  The next inner annulus contains a bit higher pressure at each height when compared to the pressure on the outer side of a given stationary or riser wall.  So the system (once set up) is self centering.  I believe Wayne called this hydrostatic centering or something like that in the patent app.

This effect also allows for thin walled members since the relative pressures inside any annulus wall are small due to only slightly lower pressures on the outside of that wall at the same heights.

The only problem comes with a sealed Pod that is in the highest pressure zone of the ZED: the center Pod chamber.  So a material that can handle the pressures there is needed, or you need to pressurize the Pod internally to keep the maximum pressure differential on the Pod to a reasonable level.

If you keep the Pod bottom open the pressure differential issue is eliminated again, but you loose some lift due to air compression in the Pod.

M.