you can really see if a person doesn't have to offer more,




IT KEEPS ON REPEATING NONE SENSE.


I believe everyone knows truth though they are silent,


AND STILL IT IS MUCH MORE BETTER IN GOD'S SIDE CAUSE SOMEDAY A GREAT PUNISHMENT WILL COME TO THOSE THAT ARE NOT IN HIS SIDE.


AND THAT'S TOOO SOON.


God bless everyone
otits L. Noicaro  [size=78%]  [/size]

Quote from: Bruce_TPU on October 06, 2012, 02:50:16 PM
My answers in bold!


Ahh, for this question is the crux of the matter.... "How do I know this is true?"  Well, it is NOT because I one day picked up a book and started reading.  No, you must understand, that I have PERSONALLY met the author of the Bible, the LIVING Word of God, the Lord Jesus Christ.  He showed me His POWER, and His power is the power to save me, to change me, to set me free. 

Thanks for taking the time to answer.  Many of the other forum members have responded as well, but in brief, all of your responses were based on Christian dogma.  So I will tackle this last bit, for everything else you say depends on it.


This thread is about the probability of god's existence.  And probabilities require real evidence.  You simply cannot use some private conversations you have had with god as a basis for your argument.  If you could, then I would counter with the fact that many devout Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Zoroastrians, Wiccans, what have you, also have private conversations with god and are just as sure of god's message, which wholly contradicts yours.  Many of these faiths either completely ignore Jesus, or insist that Jesus was simply a holy man/rabbi, but not a divine being.  And all of these people will swear on everything holy that god speaks to them and tells them the truth of their particlar sect of Muslim, Jewish, etc. faiths.


Now I know, there have been billions of Christians who all believed roughly your version of events, but you must understand that the truth of a thing is not related to how many people believe it.


I tell you what, pretend that there are no Christians in the world, and you just happen to dig up this 2000 year old book, spend some months studying it, believing its truth, and having some vision or whatever you want to call it, to where you decide the truth of the book.  You now have to convince someone that this book is the true version of God.   If you are speaking to an atheist, you will get nowhere, as they will require demonstrable proof.  If you are speaking to a "person of faith", but a person of obviously some other faith, you will also get nowhere, as everything you say about your "private relationship" with Jesus will be countered by this person's private relationship with their own god.  You will have a very very difficult time making any headway with anyone.


Compare this, say to a situation in real science.  Let's say you want to assert that air is something tangible.  This is not preposterous, as some centuries back, most people considered air to be "nothing", and not worth studying.  Visible things found on earth were something, but air was nothing at all, so the wisdom went.  Well, if you wanted to demonstrate the truth of this assertion, it would not matter at all that no one believed it - no "faith" is required at all.  You could demonstrate the substance of air via air pumps.  You could demonstrate what air is made of, as a critical part of it, oxygen, is necessary for animal life (Joseph Priestly made numerous experiments with glass bowls and mice).  You could demonstrate how plants create oxygen.   You could calculate the mass of air via precision instruments.  And so on.  I promise you, with enough time, the world would accept your version of what air is. 


So, let me re-ask, what reason do you have that would convince another person of the truth of your Christian dogma.  What observable evidence do you have.  (For example, does praying to Jesus work better than praying to Poseidon?  Is there evidence of this?, etc.)  Please leave "faith" aside, as it appears that "faith" means believing in something based on inadequate evidence.  This is a science forum, so let's stick to good evidence.

Quote from: eatenbyagrue on October 09, 2012, 05:15:26 AM

Thanks for taking the time to answer.  Many of the other forum members have responded as well, but in brief, all of your responses were based on Christian dogma.  So I will tackle this last bit, for everything else you say depends on it.


You simply cannot use some private conversations you have had with god as a basis for any argument.  If you could, then I would counter with the fact that many devout Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Zoroastrians, Wiccans, what have you, also have private conversations with god and are just as sure of god's message, which wholly contradicts yours.  Many of these faiths either completely ignore Jesus, or insist that Jesus was simply a holy man/rabbi, but not a divine being.  And all of these people will swear on everything holy that god speaks to them and tells them the truth of their particlar sect of Muslim, Jewish, etc. faiths.


Now I know, there have been billions of Christians who all believed roughly your version of events, but you must understand that the truth of a thing is not related to how many people believe it.


I tell you what, pretend that there are no Christians in the world, and you just happen to dig up this 2000 year old book, spend some months studying it, believing its truth, and having some vision or whatever you want to call it, to where you decide the truth of the book.  You now have to convince someone that this book is the true version of God.   If you are speaking to an atheist, you will get nowhere, as they will require demonstrable proof.  If you are speaking to a "person of faith", but a person of obviously some other faith, you will also get nowhere, as everything you say about your "private relationship" with Jesus will be countered by this person's private relationship with their own god.


Compare this, say to a situation in real science.  Let's say you want to assert that air is something tangible.  This is not preposterous, as some centuries back, most people considered air to be "nothing", and not worth studying.  Visible things found on earth were something, but air was nothing at all, so the wisdom went.  Well, if you wanted to demonstrate the truth of this assertion, it would not matter at all that no one believed it.  You could demonstrate the substance of air via air pumps.  You could demonstrate what air is made of, as a critical part of it, oxygen, is necessary for animal life (Joseph Priestly made numerous experiments with glass bowls and mice).  You could demonstrate how plants create oxygen.   You could calculate the mass of air via precision instruments.  And so on.


So, let me re-ask, what reason do you have that would convince another person of the truth of your Christian dogma.  What observable evidence do you have.  (For example, does praying to Jesus work better than praying to Poseidon?  Is there evidence of this?, etc.)

  oh boy another none sense 


i'm tired, my nose is bleeding in English.


Christians!, the floor is now yours. depend our flag. 

I have already showed all the vital point medicine to these atheists. but still not comprehending right to the truth. 

i'm out a here!

Quote from: Tito L. Oracion on October 09, 2012, 05:29:07 AM


  oh boy another none sense 


i'm tired, my nose is bleeding in English.


Christians!, the floor is now yours. depend our flag.  [size=78%] [/size]

I have already showed all the vital point medicine to these atheists. but still not comprehending right to the truth. 
[size=78%]
[/size]
[size=78%]i'm out a here! [/size]

Tito, you have yet to give any reason beyond dogma.  If you have any evidence for Jesus that we can verify and test (any double blind studies?), please let us know what it is.

Quote from: TechStuf on October 09, 2012, 04:10:38 AM
snip..
The best definition of an atheist I have found is
snip..
Yahweh bless you wilby, and your associates, in Christ.  For it is these blessings that are all the proof you truly seek.

Its interesting and a little ironic how the meanings and definition of words can change throughout history to eventually mean the opposite of their original intent.

Today, an atheist  is usually associated with a non belief in any god, and an agnostic is associated with a non belief in any religion.
Some people are either, and some people are both.

But in ancient greece, theists or agnostics (words derived from ancient greece) were followers and believers of all the greek gods including the god called "agnostos theos". Theology then was the study of and belief in "theos"(plural), which included "agnosotos" and the student/believer was a theist or agnostic, or both.

The name of the god "agnostos theos" means "unknown god". Theos means god, and the suffix was applied to the whole pantheon of greek god/s.

Any christian therefore who proclaims and rejoices in the name of (their) god, be it yahweh, jehovah, elohim or the great flying spaghetti monster, is (in the original greek meanings), an atheist or gnostic, because they do not believe in an unknown god, or a pantheon of gods, they believe only in one "named, known god".

Cheers