Quote from: LarryC on October 12, 2012, 12:37:45 AM

So TK, are you libel for promoting this scam? All has been recorded:
(http://www.overunity.com/Themes/default/images/useron.gif)ashtweth_nihilisti
Re: Hydro-Electric Reactor (Coger international)« Reply #14 on: Today at 06:01:06 AM »Quote
looks like they were busted for selling shares?
http://www.corp.ca.gov/ENF/pdf/c/cogarfinancial-DefaultJudgment.pdf

Am I promoting that scam? Is it a scam? How do you know?

No, I am pointing out that rumors and pictures and videos of a "working model", a "patent", a bunch of engineers and endorsements, a fancy web site and a bunch of claims do not mean that there is really anything there at all to get excited about. And I am pointing out that each of us has a skeptical threshhold, depending on our own experiences and education and so on. It looks like we've found yours.... somewhere between the Zed and the Hydro-Electric Reactor. The only way that you and I differ is where we place that line, I guess. You aren't going to be spreadsheeting the Coger device, I'll bet, because you _know_  (believe, really) that it's a scam and can't work.

Well...... some of us believe the same thing about MrWayne and the Zed. Is that a reason to be disrespectful to us? Well, then... should I be disrespectful towards YOU because you don't believe in the Coger device, in spite of all the evidence in its favor?

QuoteSo is there any specific testing that anyone thinks would prove either way that a simple three layer (1 Pod, 2 riser) ZED system is or is not an OU construction?

M.

With Mondrasek's set up and measurement capabilities, are we saying that there is no way to determine a hard number for the efficiency of the upstroke + downstroke?

I am looking for a simple cross check for hysteresis in the ZED system from anyone who has a build.  I have it and believe it must be from unrelieved friction/stiction in my crappy build.  But I am not 100% sure due to recent additions to my test bed.

I was not happy with the variability of releasing stiction in my system by tapping on the workbench surface.  So I attached a "shaker" to one of the legs of the ZED stand and base plate.  It is a simple DC motor from an OLD CD drive.  I attached an off center weight on the spinny part to make it vibrate when running (yes I built a vibrator).  It is being powered off the same DC/DC converter that I was using to regulate the LED lighting when I was joking about that.  The intention was that this added "shaker" would cause my test ZED system to stop exhibiting variable behavior that I attributed to stiction (due to the crappy nature of the build).  But I have run a simple test with the shaker on (it does a fine job compared to banging the workbench top BTW) and was not pleased:

With the shaker running and the three layer ZED (1 Pod/ 2 Risers) fully loaded in a mid stroke condition I do the following:

1)  Lift slightly on the lift load being supported by the ZED.  The system then settles back down to a position of ZED height "a" and input fill tube water level height "b."

2)  Push down slightly on the lift load being supported by the ZED.  The system then settles back up to a position of ZED height *lower* than "a" (see #1) and the input tube water level height *above* "b" (see #1).

So more stiction than the "vibrator" can overcome?  Or hysteresis?

If anyone with a better build (yes I am talking to you, Dale) can tell me if you observe a similar condition or not it will help me to understand if the system has a hysteresis condition that I was unaware of or if I still have a stiction problem for TK to factor into any data that is recorded.

M.

No pressure Ehhh M. ?? LOL
Mine's apart at the moment waiting for a couple of "just delivered" parts to be installed tomorrow.
BUT - I have had trouble getting it to return to an exact same state. I've attributed some of that to possible air leaks or such but I've also let it sit static - loaded - for days - and not detected a change I could blame on a leak.

I think you and Webby might have more total time playing but yes, I do seem to be observing some of the same.

That's part of the reason I'm trying to get "fussier"... with setting up and tracking changes.

Maybe I'll have more to contribute by Sunday afternoon.
Dale

Quote from: wildew on October 12, 2012, 05:59:40 PM
No pressure Ehhh M. ?? LOL

Not our baby to birth, right?  So no pressure...  Just get it done!

I just ran another quick test and hoped to gather data that was usefull.  I started by engaging the "shaker" and then adding a little bit of input water so that the fully loaded ZED would lift to a new location between the hard stops.  It moved up nicely and settled at a reading that then varied by only 0.03mm on the digital indicator (due to the vibrator).

I then lifted the weight on the ZED system and let it settle again.  It then read 0.50 mm *above* the previous readings through the same range of fluctuation.

I then pushed down on the ZED system and let it settle again.  This time it *also* read above the reading from just after having adding more water.  But it was below the reading recorded above (fluctuating through the same range).  It was exactly 0.28 mm below the readings where I had just lifted the weight and then let it settle.

So all that was weird (unexpected) to say the least.  And I began to try to repeat the same tests immediately.  But when I pushed down on the ZED Pod/Riser system I "blew skirts."  I was probably not being as gentle with this system that is running very close to it's limits as I should have been.  So I have to set up again.

Either way, interesting results.  I'll try to do better next time.

M.