Quote from: ltseung888 on March 14, 2013, 08:14:54 PM
snip...
For example, Negative Input Power indicates that more Power flows back to the battery than supplied by the battery.
snip...

If there really was more power flowing back to the battery than being supplied by the battery, then an oscillascope would not even be required to read and analyze the complex waveforms.

The battery would never discharge. In fact, even with the leds as loads, if the power back into the battery were more than it was supplying to the circuit, then eventually if would either explode, or fail catastrophically some other way, due to prolonged over charging and over voltage.

In the meantime a simple analogue voltmeter would suffice for average readings, which would show the supply voltage either rising or falling, over the duration of a long test run.

If the battery is eventually discharging, however long it takes, then the power back into the battery must be less than the power it supplies to the circuit.

This doesn't rule out the possibilty that the resultant power consumed by the whole circuit (supplied power minus reactive power), might be less than the lumen output power of the leds. But proving that possibility requires another, different, set of measurements for power consumption versus power output comparisons.

Cheers

Quote from: hoptoad on March 15, 2013, 02:09:42 AM
If there really was more power flowing back to the battery than being supplied by the battery, then an oscillascope would not even be required to read and analyze the complex waveforms.

The battery would never discharge. In fact, even with the leds as loads, if the power back into the battery were more than it was supplying to the circuit, then eventually if would either explode, or fail catastrophically some other way, due to prolonged over charging and over voltage.

In the meantime a simple analogue voltmeter would suffice for average readings, which would show the supply voltage either rising or falling, over the duration of a long test run.

If the battery is eventually discharging, however long it takes, then the power back into the battery must be less than the power it supplies to the circuit.

This doesn't rule out the possibilty that the resultant power (supplied power minus reactive power) consumed by the whole circuit might be less than the lumen output power of the leds. But proving that possibility requires another, different, set of measurements for power consumption versus power output comparisons.

Cheers

Please look at the Input waveform from the oscilloscope.  The voltage changed very little around the 1.xx V mark.  Such a small change is usually not enough to recharge a battery.  The AA battery used normally is NOT rechargeable.  In other words, in all the tests shown, we did not use the feedback power for recharging.  Thus slow draining of the battery is not a surprise.

We (or someone else, Bedini, G-LED?) shall soon announce a 12V car battery recharger using Lead-out Energy.  The car battery is rechargeable.  There will be smoothing, rectifying and protection circuits to recharge one or more 12V car batteries on the Output.  The Output may also have Secondary circuits.  Such a circuit was found to work (with problems) by us in 2010 and was described in Chapter 5 of Patrick Kelly's Book.  The problems are likely to be resolved totally soon.....

*** one new technology worth watching is from MIT:
http://web.mit.edu/erc/spotlights/ultracapacitor.html

Since I already leaked out the 12V car battery recharger information, I shall try to benefit the World more with the use of one or more capacitors.  They are a great help in the car battery recharger.

Board 55 has a 2.3V 10F capacitor connected in parallel with the battery or DC Power Supply.  Board 55 happened to be the one that could light up the LED for 9 hours (blinking and dimming towards the end).

The COP was -3.43.  The Input Power was -0.01075 Watts.  The Output Power was 0.03684 Watts.  (with DC Power Supply ON).

The COP was still negative and increasing.  The Output Voltage Frequency also increased from 4KHz to over 30KHz.  (With DC Power Supply turned off).  Adding a capacitor at the appropriate place did have value.  (See the many videos from TK).

Significance of Board 55:

(1) Board 55 has a Capacitor connected in parallel with the battery or DC power supply..
(2) When Battery is disconnected, the Capacitor continues to act as INPUT to circuit.
(3) The COP was still negative with the numerical value greater than 1.  The negative sign came from average INPUT power.
(4) This conclusively showed that much of the energy lighting the LEDs came from Lead-out Energy.
(5) Thanks to the Atten Oscilloscope.  The 12V battery charger using Lead-out Energy is a FACT.

Quote from: ltseung888 on March 15, 2013, 03:35:11 AM

Board 55 has a 2.3V 10F capacitor connected in parallel with the battery or DC Power Supply.  Board 55 happened to be the one that could light up the LED for 9 hours (blinking and dimming towards the end).

The fact that the capacitor voltage decreased over time proves that the board is consuming more power than it is returning to the power source (capacitor). Thus your "OU" is due to measurement errors. A capacitor is rechargeable. Any current flowing back into it will recharge it.