@xeee, .99: I think there is a "failure to communicate" here. The input and output powers are each being measured here as the instantaneous product of current and voltage, and the current values are obtained from an Ohm's Law computation performed on the voltage drop across a known resistor. The "power dissipation" of a resistor or an LED when subjected to a given current isn't the issue at all and the ultimate load on the system being measured also doesn't matter.

A _true_ computation of synchronously obtained, instantaneous samples of current and voltage yields the correct instantaneous power, no matter what the "power factor" or phase angle or complexity of the waveforms concerned.

But... major problems are encountered when the samples aren't truly synchronous -- like when they are obtained with two different, low-end, sampling DSOs -- and when the sampling or computation intervals aren't "instantaneous", as when a sequence of samples taken with an instrument with finite, and low, bandwidth is put into a spreadsheet for further computation on an interval-by-interval basis.

Problems such as improper signal coupling, improper setting of the "trace invert" control, excessive wire lengths and poor routing, and low sample rates wrt the signal frequency all contribute to the illusion of overunity performance in the measurements. I stress that _concurrent validity_ is lacking here: there are no indications of any OU behaviour in this system, other than LTseung's computations.

ETA: Unless I am greatly mistaken, the scopes LTseung are using sample their channels consecutively. One channel is sampled and recorded, then the other channel is sampled and recorded. Hence, the samples aren't truly simultaneous but are separated in time by an interval determined by the scope's bandwidth settings.

QuoteHi Lawrence:
Thank you for the 2 boards 85 &  86. We will have the engineers verify the COP of the boards.
Thanks again. regards Tom

@all
The results from this tester will be posted here as soon as they are ready.  Results from many other testers are expected within weeks.  Be patient.  Many packages have been sent out.  You can order from Mr. Zhou directly.  His email is zhouwei.1052@163.com.  Price will vary with quantity and shipping costs. 

@TK
Thank you for the detailed technical comments.  My posted oscilloscope analysis results came from using two Oscilloscopes - one to measure Input and one to measure Output.  Both of them are two channel Atten Oscilloscopes.  Some results are done sequentially - take the Input first and then take the Output.  Some results are done "simultaneously".  The stop button on both oscilloscopes were pressed at the same time.  Both methods yield similar results.   The Average Input and Output Power as computed did not change much.  No capacitors were in the circuit. 

@poynt99
Please use your 4 channel oscilloscope to do the tests on Broad 33.  It will be true simultaneous measurement.  After repeating my tests, you are welcome to do other tests on the board.  Reproduce more.  Using the 2n3055 instead of the 2n2222 will give you much higher Output Power.

@Tom
You have two boards - 85 and 86.  You can use the Output of 85 as Input to 86.  The resulting waveforms will convince all that the "lead-out mechanism" is much more complex than a simple superimposition.  Simple loopback or daisy-chain will not work.  The best arrangement is the Battery Charger for 12V car batteries using 2n3055.  You can try to develop that as a product and see if you can be the first on the Market...  Meanwhile, I shall refer to your group as tester for Board 85.

Hi Lawrence,
many thanbks for sending the 2 boards labeled "38".
They have come in and both are working on a fresh 1.5 Volts alkaline battery.

But I have not yet hooked up a scope,
cause I first need to finish my tax reports, that are already overdue..

So it will be a few days ahead when I will have time to test the boards.

But stay tuned.

Many thanks again.

Regards, Stefan.

Quote

Good for you, for introducing this qualifying procedure. However, that is not WHY I contacted you.


I was reading on your website about your progress as of 2007, 2009. I have an RFP from Xcel Energy, a very large energy company in the US which pays grants for research and for development-level (or any level) new machines or equipment that generates electricity cheaper and better than the current methods (currently the company does a lot of nuclear energy plants - one is 30 miles from my home - and some small amount of wind energy. The Governor of my state, the state of Minnesota, has a platform positive on alternative energy. Solar is very big this year. Wall street likes it. So there will be many projects from solar companies applying for grants this year. The total amount of grants will be about $30 million. Not a lot for what we are talking about but T H Moray and Nikola Tesla could have done a lot with that amount of money. I am letting people know whose work looks promising, about the existence of this money and encouraging them to look at the RFP and apply if they can.

The first file attached is the RFP for energy production research, that is work at either the developmental stage, the research stage or the commercial stage of a machine such as I saw described on your website.


The second file attached is the RFP for higher ed research programs applied to projects either in the theoretical stage or the application of research to overcome milestones in the developmental or commercial stages


Do you see now where I'm coming from? I was trying to gain a basis for discussing your projects on whatever terms you find poignant at this time, in order to explain how this money could help you and what is involved. A request for proposal (RFP) is something you are probably already familiar with....it opens at a certain time for those with proposals to consider it and then closes so the next phase can start (April 1,2013) the proposals that are considered are chosen by that date and thereafter qualified as to peer review available etc and documentation. Then contracts are negotiated with milestones for payment (they give you the money when you complete the phase of the project previously funded...see how that works? Like a construction contract.) the funding comes through after all contracts are negotiated and signed, early next year 2014. But the proposals have to be in to them in a week.


All the information you need to apply for this money is attached. I've read the proposals and talked to the RFP manager of the fund where the money comes from which is approved by our state legislature. There is an election year in 2014. If great strides were to be made in ZPE research and development it would help my state, it would trend the industry away from nuclear power (which may be killing people through weird cancers all over the world as well as polluting Mother Earth) and it would help our pro-alternative-energy-Governor get re-elected so that MORE money can come out for this work in the following years. As far as I know our state gives out the most money for this



I do not believe this is one state's or one country's job, to produce ZPE...I think it is every country's job to come up with whatever innocations they can....but some countries cannot do it for competition with oil and nuclear industries. My theory is if everyone does what they can, there will be too much innovation for the old industries to fight off and they will finally allow themselves to fade not being able to fight on so many fronts.


I saw the electrical/magnetic generator on your website and I believe magnetics is one of the adaptations of the principles of ZPE that can be developed. I am in touch with a number of engineers working on this, but most of them need money. So as a retired attorney in Minnesota with a love for this industry and the work of TH Moray and Nikola Tesla, I do what I can to find sources of money. Someday if/when I win the lottery or come up with some other largesse of my own I will fund this research and development, but today this is what I have to offer.

Now you do not need me anymore unless you want to ask questions about the RFP or sources in the area for peer review, etc. You have what you need if you want to pursue this.

Thanks for your offers, if I can find someone who can do this testing work it will likely be in the universities in St Cloud or Minneapolis at the University of Minnesota. If I find someone I will send them your way.


Good luck in your good work to help the planet. I hope you succeed.

Peace and Light

Chris Harbron

Another tester in USA.  I shall send a package to him.  Also one individual tester in California has received the package.  It looks like most of the packages arrived safely.  PhysicsProf is the exception - probably lost due to his moving.

Quote from: TinselKoala on March 18, 2013, 12:02:50 PM

I stress that _concurrent validity_ is lacking here: .....

It is good that TK accepts that the oscilloscope method in measuring Input and Output Power is a scientific and valid way.  He is concerned about the experimental details and the accuracy of the Atten Oscilloscopes.  These are signs of good researcher.

There will be multiple testers with different (and better) oscilloscopes - especially those at top Universities.

My focus is on having ONE scientific approach to demonstrating OU with the particular boards.  Fortunately, I have many of these boards and can share them.  As far as "concurrent validity" is concerned, I leave it to the many testers or TK to suggest additional tests.  The ones that are likely to come out from my bedroom are:

(1) The 2n3055 oscilloscope test-ready board which can provide 10 times the Output Power.
(2) The 2n2222 boards driving toy motors instead of (or in addition to) simple LEDs.
(3) The Oscilloscope analysis on FLEET Battery Chargers.

I prefer to sow seeds.  It is likely that others will come out with the above much faster than I can.  Many will be able to produce commercial Lead-out Energy products.  My job is to open the floodgate.  It is essentially done in Hong Kong and China.....  The chance of Big Oil stopping the water is zero.  It may be a good idea to have a slower transition than sudden death of Big Oil.

*** Patrick Kelly also received the package in UK.....