The link was from July 4th and you have been reduced to a parrot whizzing into the wind.

My intention was to give some explanation to my question about the ideal inductor driven by the ideal voltage source.  And you have done nothing but attack me and dig yourself into a hole and demonstrate your moral bankruptcy, just a troll.

This 'debate' is over and thanks for showing everyone your true colours.

Quote from: MileHigh on July 19, 2013, 02:54:27 AM
Magluvin squirm all you want.  Go to post #434 and have another look.  I know you saw it but you can't acknowledge that you are wrong and you end off the night with an attempt at deflection.

Hopefully you and others will generate some legitimate data about the coil configuration as per Tesla's patent.  Easier said than done.

Rational analysis of this special coil configuration is telling us that it is marginally different from a regular coil of the same number of turns and dimensions.  That's what we are trying to examine here.  The claims and the fantasy claims versus the rational analysis and the actual bench testing.  Which ones are real?  Which ones are the truth?  I think of the excellent contributor Itsu and his great clips.  He has been examining Kapanadze claims on his bench for months and months and none of the claims and speculations from the various Kapanadze threads have ever turned out to be true.

I have done the testing on the bench myself, and yes, it was a long time ago.  BFD.  I have measured the inductance by looking at the L/R time constant of a coil.  I have measured the energy stored in a coil.  I have done the AC and pulse analysis of a coil on the bench.  I have measured the core saturation level.  I have sat through all of the derivations based on looking at the geometry of the coil.  I understand the differential and integral equations that describe the behaviour of a coil.  I have done the S-parameter modelling for a coil.  I have done the linear network analysis that allows you to solve for all loop currents and node voltages in a circuit where coils are some of the circuit elements.

So going back to the basics:  What can we say about this coil configuration in looking at the patent, and looking at what we know about how a coil actually works, and what we can see on the bench?  For this most basic of components are we going to try and understand it, or is the "free for all" mentality going to extend down to the most basic circuit components that people work with on a daily basis?  Do we delude ourselves and listen to anything anybody says about the coil or do we try to really understand how a coil works so we can apply that knowledge to other circuits and other experiments?

This notion that I am somehow a "bad guy" for trying to get enthusiasts to understand the basics so that they can get more out of their bench experimenting and circuit analysis is just plain ridiculous.  I am fully aware of the self-defeating patterns that happen over and over on the threads.  The fact that we can't even try to get on the same page for a bloody coil says a lot about the state of free energy research.

MileHigh

This isn't just a bloody coil. There is somethingt that the capacitance of the coil, being so high, that brings other effects to the table. Adding more of the Voltage conversion does do something. Something rather odd with very high oscillations or impulse currents.


Do anything you want but do not try to compare the DC component of this coil. It will not work because it is not based off of the DC end of things. The capacitor inside of the coil is a very important role in this design. It not only cancels self inductance but also creates a larger capacity inside of the coil. Hence my naming it a Cap/Coil. There is nothing wrong with stating the coil as it is and that is a Cap/Coil.


There is also a phase relationship between the two coils that are series connected. Both coils have currents that move from outside to inside and each could be considered to be in a different phase to each other. My ideas on the acceleration type of operation are but only an observation from previos work,the only thing that will tell the two is to measure the first coil on an oscilloscope and the second coil on channel b. This should show the phase relationship and if it modifies one to the other through the capacitance and induction. As for proof it will come but on my time and not your demands. If you can not wait or are impatient then maybe you should get a bench together like I have done.


My scope isn't the best and I have to get another probe. They are not cheap. The scope is a B+K Precision 1477, 15Mhz Max.


So accurate data collection will be high on the list. My next buy will be a damn good fluke Multi meter, Hopefully the best but we will see what I can afford. I have shown the Oscilloscope before on Energetic forum with my work from the Joule thief thread there and with the addition of the Captret experiments.


The Captret experiments led me an Ibpointless to the crystal batteries. Then I started on the bifilar design because I wanted to see every aspect of the captret. From the self charging of a capacitor to the inductive relation of the plates to the case(induction).


So the bifilar I believe is the culmination of all of these investigations. My investigations.

There is also another investigation that I am planning on doing. Two coils of different metals suspended in a crystalline medium like alumn. Further experiments will be tried on the medium of oils as well. This will improve the dielectric value and increase the capacity even further. This does two things: A: it raises the capacity. B: increases the dielectric break down incase the magnet wire looses it's sheath of dielectric. Oils have been shown to extend the range of Peak voltage of the coil. Extreme voltage potential of the impulses will need to be dealt with and this is the perfect way. The drive caps of the exciter and driver unit will be oil filled as well to include these properties in the AC operation of the bifilar coil. This should augment the AC current even further.

It might be that hese coils are polarized as well. This means two coils should be used on a battery source. One positive and one negative. I would think we could figure out the n/s of these coils from the faces of the flat pancakes. We could either increase current bucking compressing or increase voltage by current aiding or acceleration mode.

The output I would think should be augmented AC via laser like excitation of the current going through the bifilar coils but I'll have to experiment more before determining that route.

Like I said the videos of tinman are very telling about the coils abilities to create an imbalance. I would think there would be some kind of standing wave on the surface of the flat coils. Like a surface that can be impulsed like a drum head. In this analogy you could think of it like this glorious video shows:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5u5nXZqYq0

This is what we are looking for. This exactly type of action.

I think if you check out the water hammer you might see how this concept works.

Quote from: MileHigh on July 19, 2013, 02:54:27 AM
Magluvin squirm all you want.  Go to post #434 and have another look.  I know you saw it but you can't acknowledge that you are wrong and you end off the night with an attempt at deflection.

Hmm. Well you did say post 434, which is only a page back. I didnt read it and just thought how could that be weeks ago. But I see it was a copy of an original post now. So you can see MY train of thought at nearly 3am, or was it 2.  Ok. I apologize for saying you lied based on the point of my confusion of weeks ago.  lol I was 2 hours late for work this morning and posted what I did before I left.

Then you posted a bit later and I saw it on my phone. I went back through posts and I could not find what post where you said what I pasted above. I was like, jimmy edited his post!!     Seriously.

I was kinda po'ed most of the day planning on figuring out what is what when I got home. But then I found it, then found the post and read it. 

But on the statement that you taught me something with that post, well just because you posted it doesnt mean that I dont know much until you posted it.    You said you were into car audio. Ever make a custom passive crossover for a system?  This is old school for sure. Low pass, band pass and high pass. I learned a lot back then working with a guy that developed home speaker systems. His stuff was not cheap. $2000 for a pair of 6 1/2 with 2 tweeters.  Vented, no sub needed. He would test them with just a high end cd and a nice stereo amp with just a volume control. This guy spent ridiculous money on wire and cable.   He would sit you down in a room with 1 chair and tell you to close your eyes and hit play.  It was a beautiful thing.

Also back when I had first met Poynt in Roses thread, couple years back. I had some conflicts with statements like 'back emf" or counter emf when describing what happens during a field collapse. The problem I have with it is there is nothing, back, reverse or counter about it. The current continues in the same direction as the input.  Though, that isnt always the case, as you and I have argued before at OUR.
I think I made a vid on YT that shows it. Will look. I had a pulse motor that I used 1 diode to capture the collapse current into a cap. But when I reversed the diode, I still got more than input voltage into the cap. Now that is what I would call BEMF.  I even wrote theories on why I thought it would do so. And the reason I proposed was due to that tiny ity bitty capacitance in the coil. I believe it was the Energy Amplification here and one on an OUR thread.  Now granted, when I reversed the diode, when the reed closed, the reed sent power to the coil and to the cap(through the diode) directly from the source. No inductors inline with the diode/cap. So how did the cap reach just about as much voltage beyond input voltage with the diode in either direction?


Anyways, sorry about the confusion there. Its the man thing to do.    I dont hold on to my mistakes, I clear them up when realized. Been here before.

Ok, gota eat and check out this LCR meter.  Now that I got it, it seems a bit cheap compared to what I thought. Instructions on folded paper.   


Mags

Quote from: MileHigh on July 18, 2013, 08:45:01 PM
It's quiet around here, perhaps we are waiting for some test results.  So I will go back and comment on my question and the answer.

The question:  You have an ideal inductor of three Henries.   You connect the inductor to an ideal voltage source of seven volts.  What will happen?

The answer:  i = 7/3 t

So the current flow is zero when the voltage source is first connected (t = 0).  Then the current rises in a linear ramp, at one second, the current is 2.33 amps.  At two seconds, the current is 4.67 amps.  After ten minutes, the current is 1400 amps.

Notice that as time goes on, more and more power is being pumped into the coil.   At one second, the power flow into the coil is 16.33 watts.  At ten minutes, the power flow into the coil is 9800 watts.

The coil is soaking up all of this power supplied by the voltage source and storing it.

A mechanical inductor is simply a flywheel that spins on a a high quality bearing.  You substitute the voltage for torque.  You substitute the current flow for angular velocity.  You substitute the inductance for the moment of inertia.

The question could have been rephrased:  You have a flywheel on perfect bearings with a moment of inertia of three kilogram-meters-squared.  You connect a constant torque source to the flywheel of seven newton-meters.  What will happen?  I am sure that you can all imagine what will happen if you think about the flywheel example.

People talk about doing all sorts of fancy lab experiments and Tesla impulse experiments but they can't even answer a basic question about how a coil functions.  That means there is a good chance your lab experiments are just going to be a fuzzy walk down a garden path of your own creation, and not real research.

I'll give another example.  Nowadays most people are just average Jow Blows when it comes to performing maintenance on their car engine.  They open the hood and see a network of hoses and cables, you can barely even see the engine block.  It's not like looking under the hood in the 1960s.  They have no clue what the majority of those hoses are.  The average Joe Blow does not have the umbilical connector and equipment to jack into the engine computer and read the error codes and interpret them and know what action to take.  So the average Joe Blow would not even consider doing an engine overhaul, it's just too complicated and outside of his area of expertise.

But on the forums, people that don't understand the basic building blocks of electronics are more than happy to do "research" into high frequency impulse effects and play with coils, etc, etc.  A wise person would want to master the basics before doing that.  That ties into the whole "intense" debate that transpired here.  Not one person was willing to say, "I don't know the answer but I would like to learn."

So we can now return to the quiet time on the thread and wait for results or whatever...

As soon as you start talking of "Ideal" components you stray away from physical reality.

Why not just say an inductor with three Henries and 100 Ohms resistance ? The ideal voltage is OK because that can be pretty much made to happen in reality if there is sufficient DC resistance.

The ideal situation is so far from reality it is funny.

MileHigh can you do the sums for us to show the difference between your "ideal inductor" situation and a similar situation using an inductor with the three Henries and also with 100 Ohms DC resistance ?

Then with AC excitation or pulsed DC excitation (Alternating polarity pulsed DC or unipolarity pulsed DC) and tuned to minimum reactance with the 100 Ohms DC resistance. We can deduce that if the effect of the self induction is cancelled and the coil only faces the DC resistance the delay for the maximum current is practically negated. That is what the patent is about and that is basically the claims of the patent. Is it not ?

Cheers

P.S. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I have great respect for the knowledge you higher educated guys bring to the table. I can see your point in your example, but can you see the point I'm trying to make ? The coil is like a flywheel yes, but a flywheel has windage and bearing drag, a coil has DC resistance, it cannot be avoided and should not.
The patent talks of the DC resistance, the goal is to pass currents with no other significant opposition than the DC resistance. Lets see you do that with a flywheel !

At times it seems you almost try to provoke people to try to say they know more than they do, so that you can make them look bad or silly. Not saying you are trying to do that just that it seems that way at times. I do see where you are coming from. To me it seems like a sport to you, I and the others here are not your playthings, just sayin, just in case.

By all means debate is good but as far as I am concerned the debate is over the patent is explained. Not trying to brag but for an uneducated man in this field I think I hit the nail on the head with the turn spacing (self capacitor plate spacing or insulation thickness) meaning the voltage applied has to be considered, and differing voltages will produce different resonant frequencies because of that. Do you agree that insulation thickness or distance between conductors means different voltages will secure differing levels of self capacitance in a given coil ?



...

Consider for a moment an oscillator inside an electrostatic generated field.   The energy leaves the oscillator as electromagnetic waves or as particle boys call it photons or light.   The space volume the oscillator occupies is less energy dense upon each radiation from same.    Mean while the electrostatic field  permeating the same space is non variant in field strength.   It's Tesla's bottle in a lake.   The electrostatic field moves electricity (the water) continually into the tank which transforms it into electromagnetic waves that radiate from the same space.  There is this whole dimensional field of energy density. 
    I really think his bifilar pancake coils is a tank inside his transformer.   The below link gives some pretty good insight into what Tesla was into.   No gain from the medium yet just plain old power distribution using one wire.   His radar-like ground waves came later as he got into microwave bands.  [size=78%]http://www.tfcbooks.com/tesla/1919-05-00.htm[/size]