Hi NRamaswami,

First of all please bare with me, I try to answer in due order as my time permits.

At the moment it is the core you may wish to decide on, what are the mechanical sizes of the straight "I" laminations you have got?  (If they are I shaped, that is, for I assume you wish to use three electromagnets in a straight line, right?)  So you may wish to think about fitting I laminates with rectangular cross section into say a 4 inch dia cylindrical PVC tube, if this is what you are planning.

Regarding your trifilar and bifilar experiments and the different current draws, it is against common findings: it is okay how you connected the trifilar (or bifilar) windings but then the L inductance for such trifilar coil (three windings connected in series as you also described) should increase about 8-9 times with respect to that of a single wire winding having the same # of turns. And this should be a 3-4 times increase in case of a bifilar coil. 

So the AC impedances should also increase in the same amount: from a single wire coil having say Z=40 Ohm, the impedance would be 9 x 40= 360 Ohm for a trifilar coil having the same number of turns than the single wire coil. 
And then the current draw should decrease: from 220V/40 Ohm=5.5A to 220V/360 Ohm=0.61A.  I understand that you found the 32A office tripper tripped for your trifilar coil and your bifilar drew 18A, so there is a puzzle here: perhaps the winding styles for the trifilar (and for the bifilar) coils were very different with respect to the single wire coil, not allowing for an inductance (hence impedance) increase but a decrease!

Regarding your Ohm meter readings: when you directly short the two measuring tips to each other, ideally you should see 0.000 Ohm in any range, including the 2k range. If this is not the case,  then you have to substract the non-zero Ohm part from the measured part: say the display shows 0.01 Ohm when you directly short the measuring pins and then you measure 0.08 Ohm on a coil, the true Ohm value would be 0.08-0.01=0.07 Ohm for that coil. By the way, using the smallest range (which is perhaps 200 Ohm for your meter) would give more precision (resolution) in your low Ohm measurement efforts.

Regarding your post on the magnet wire: it sounds the magnet wire available for you is not insulated but bare, otherwise you would not need to add insulation to cover it, right?  OR if you mean the magnet wire which is available for you is already has the usual enamel coating, then it does not need any further insulating layer and could be re-used several times. Please address this too.

More to come later. No need to hurry.


Gyula

More interesting. Quote from end of page 20 to page 21

QuoteIn many respects these motors are
similar to the continuous current motors. If load is put on, the
speed, and also the resistance of the motor, is diminished and
more current is made to pass through the energizing coils, thus

POLYPHASE CURRENTS. 21

increasing the effort. Upon the load being taken off, the
counter-electromotive force increases and less current passes
through the primary or energizing coils. Without any load the
speed is very nearly equal to that of the shifting poles of the
field magnet.

Cheers

Hi NRamaswami, I find if I make sharp bends in the magnet wire it can injure the insulation and even loosen the insulation from the wire when trying to straighten the tight kinks. Also the wire needs to be protected from sharp edges on the steel cores ( i wrap the core with wax paper"home made" or transformer tape). It is easily damaged by it rubbing on concrete or sharp steel edges. As long as the magnet wire is not kinked or wound into very small coils I find i can unwind it onto another spool and reuse it. Trick is to keep it under control and don;t allow sharp bends or injuries to the insulation that might cause fault later.

..

Gyula:

Thank you so much.. There seems to be a diffeence in the way factory made 3 core coils work. They have huge insulation which is over and above the 1100 volt insultation of the single core wires and are rated to be capble of withstanding about 11000 volts I think. It is this insulated wire that took so much of amps.

When we duct taped the wires ourselves this did not happen. At that time the wires quadfilar wires took only 7 amps which is consistent with what you are saying. Does insulation huge insulation and gaps between wires have any thing to do with increased amperage consumption and increased magnetism.

If your statement on quadfilar wire is correct then I should be able to immediately replicate the 630 volts output experiment and check using a step down transformer what is the output. I guarantee that in this device when you keep the poles NS-NS-NS the output from the secondary increases with voltage increase. Not only does voltage increase but amperage also increases wth voltage.

I do not have that many I cores. They are very sharp and cut the hands and are only 6 inches long. We have electromagnets that are usually 5 to 6 feet long when we use the 4 inch tubes and so we use the cheap soft iron rods.

Doug:

We have done a small Square device Like this. CW-CW-CCW-CCW. All of them are placed in a rectangular way. It essentially means that the parallel electromagnets are wound in the opposite direction. and so we have the NS-NS-SN situation here. Not just that it is NS-NS-SN-SN ..

Results for you..

Each electromagnet 2.5 inch diameter. Soft iron core. 8 inches long.

Primary 4 sq mm wire on two oppposite electromagnets. Secondary1.5 sq mm wire on all the four.

Primary turns 35 x 3 layers. Secondary turns 65x 3 layers.

Total number of primary turns 105+105=210

Number of secondary turns 65x3=195 per electromagnet.
For 4 electromagnets Total secondary turns 195x4= 780 turns

Primary 210 turns and secondary 780 turns.

We gave a load of 220 volts and 7 amps and connected the circuit like this.. Mains Phase - Primary input - Primary output - Resistive load of 10x200 watts lamps - Mains Neutral.

Secondary was connected to secondary load.

Primary input 220x7 amps. = 1540 watts.

Secondary output -- only 12 volt lamp is able to burn in a light way.. Nothing more than that. Magnetism is present in all cores but is very weak in two of them and strong in two of them. Though the magnet is small the current given is significant and output is unacceptably low.

Primary and secondary are both only single core wires. I did not put them as routine electromagnets for the wires will not stand a chance to act as electromagnets. We will need a lot of turns of the primary wire being 4 sq mm wire and out experience is that it requires a minimum of 240 turns of wire for the magnet to remain stable.

We will repeat the experiment of Dieter as well and report.

My boys will test it now in NS-NS-NS configuration and I will report the output. I will also provide the primary and secondary turns. We will see the results. We will use the same above method and then find out what is the result in the secondary. I do not know theory and so I really go by the experimental results.

We will accept the experimental results.   

Marathonman

"so unless you have a working device powering your home as we speak in which i ask you "why haven't you brought it forward" then i would suggest you drop the religious dogma that has corrupted you and go to anger management classes for getting mad at someone that is trying to desperately help this OU forum and myself get off the grid. i enjoy this forum and i welcome advise and suggestions from anyone and would never ever bad mouth anyone for bringing Dogmaless ideas to the table. when we solve this riddle i think there should be a CLEMENTE FIGUERAS day on the calendar .... GOOD LUCK MY FRIENDS"

I did not get mad ,I'm still not mad.
  If you get it to work, I hope you have enough sense to check the Laws under which you live before you make a mistake that puts all your efforts into the trash can. Laws regarding commerce. If you had you would be right there with me.
  Anger is something that is earned.Maybe some day you will be angry to and when you think back to this day remember I don't hold any ill feeling towards you even if you may have thought so.
  I still believe in hope.

  So when you and your grand kids noticed the other coil in a coil, did you notice what it is connected to. Maybe it's not so much a coil as a form of shield to extend the block wall effect (bloch e i e i o). American humor regarding Old McDonnald.
So in effort to help you to reach you objective I will direct you to the patent by tesla only because it is easy to understand. # 512340 The reason for the reference is the coil enables current to pass without opposition. It would not be influenced by the field in the core as it crosses the bloch wall giving you clean separation from the N and S pole ends of you cores. I did mention the patent a long time ago dont blame me if you all ignored it.

The only way to get off the grid is to learn for yourself so it can never be taken away from you by anyone. I think your doing pretty good.
Im touched by your concern that I need anger management, I will have to try to watch that show more often. Just kidding ,Im pretty passive most of the time though I agree there is always room for improvement.


NRamaswami The core you tested 2.5 x8 one hmm I dont know what to think about your results. Are windings tight? Do you have to thick a former over the core? You could place a shield around the outside of each coil to help lock the flux into your core material but I would check the windings first of the coils and make sure they did a good job on them. Sloppy windings burn off a lot of power.

   

Doug:

I concede the magnetic flux loss issue is there. I had been told by a client that at 90' magnetic flux loss would be very heavy. Seems to be the case also here.  I will not be able to do much this week due to heavy pending work and will get back to testing later.

Gyula: Your insight is so accurate that I'm really stunned. But I'm still unable to understand why the multicore wires perform well only when they are wound two times and do not perform well when the layers are more than 2.

If my understanding of your writing is correct, greater inductance will increase the magnetism but would also consume more amperage and greater impedance would reduce the amperage consumption but would lead to lesser magnetism in the coil. Am I right? Please reply at your conveience.