Well a new half baked idea!

For everyone that does not know it I would like to say that magnetic fields are 100% conservative and can produce no energy other than what was put into it initially.
But what does that mean actually? I suppose it would mean if you push together two magnets that are repelling then that is storing energy that one could use minus some small losses that we will ignore for now.

So here is a PM magnetic oscillator that works in a field simulator. Once the arm travels across to the other side, the small cylinder magnet can be rotated with near zero force and the arm will travel again back across to the start apparently with some gain of energy.

I have studied this for some time before I realized why this works and I will say it's not the magnetic field producing work as one might think because we all know that magnetic fields are conservative.
I have added an animation for a better understanding of it's operation.
From this, I may have developed a rotational method of operation using the same principal that makes this device operate.

Hi Lumen,

Thanks for showing this idea. Would have some questions:
1) basically, two block magnets magnetized lengthwise are attached to each other as shown, correct?
2) the small cylinder magnet is also magnetized lengthwise, correct?
3) what do you think would cause the starting oscillations for the cylinder magnet (after the assembly)? An outside initial force?

Thanks and will return.

Gyula

Quote from: gyulasun on October 18, 2014, 04:12:45 PM
Hi Lumen,

Thanks for showing this idea. Would have some questions:
1) basically, two block magnets magnetized lengthwise are attached to each other as shown, correct?
2) the small cylinder magnet is also magnetized lengthwise, correct?
3) what do you think would cause the starting oscillations for the cylinder magnet (after the assembly)? An outside initial force?

Thanks and will return.

Gyula

Hi Gyula,
The original design is four large magnets (2x2x1/4 thick) and a cylinder that is diametrically polarized so it can be rotated after reaching the other side.
When you think of the field from the large magnets connecting to each other, you will see that as the cylinder moves away it encounters only more opposing force.
Moving to the other side it will encounter only increasing attraction until it moves into a neutral proximity between the large magnets.

Interesting design, but the field is not the cause of operation because we know that magnets are only a conservative force right.

Hi Lumen,

Now that you mentioned the diametrically magnetized cylinder magnet,  I can understand this setup much better.   

So the poles are N-S-N-S-N-S-N-S in case for the 4 large magnets. Of course when they are attached the inner poles join to each other in attraction so that there is little flux spreading out at the inner joints, making a long N-S magnet,  right?

If this is yes, (though maybe there is some air gap left between the neighboring magnets you have not mentioned?),  then I can agree with your "prediction" as to the cylinder magnet will ping-pong back and forth, passing through the neutral zone (as you mentioned) in the middle  part of the large magnets by inertia.  In case there are some air gaps between the large magnets, the operation principle does not seem to change as I see it though.

And in case you can indeed rotate the cylinder magnet at the other end with a little input power to benefit from the repel force (again) thus created,  especially when you "may have developed a rotational method of operation using the same principal that makes this device operate",  then surely you have a promising setup.

What hands-on tests have you already managed to do on this setup? Would be very good to build and see any further pitfalls. 
So far the pitfalls to overcome are the friction of the two wheels holding the cylinder magnet (always in parallel position with the large magnets) and also to overcome the possible input power to  rotate force the cylinder magnet when needed.  These could indeed need a minimum input energy but the oscillating forces to keep the cylinder magnet should defeat these counter forces I mentioned as pitfalls, besides producing any extra output to utilize,  beyond these inputs.

You wrote: "Interesting design, but the field is not the cause of operation because we know that magnets are only a conservative force right."

Okay but once you create a setup where these static forces are able to 'see' each other in close proximity, then they invariably interact with each other naturally, so the repel and attract forces should cause the movement of the body of the cylinder magnet  on a confined path you 'prescibed' for it.  The main event it seems is to introduce a preferably small outside force to rotate the cylinder magnet 180 degree at one end and another 180 degree at the other. 


Gyula

The large magnets are thin flat magnets with the poles on the faces as shown and the other poles are on the back side. They are mounted in a stationary plastic block. The wheels are two simple wheels with the center wheel mounted stationary and a thread looped and fastened to the pivoting one. The thread can be attached because it never does a full rotation so it can be connected at a point that never leaves the wheel.

It's all very simple and even a 2d simulator would support it's rotation.
You can't forget that the movement of the cylinder magnet through it's path (which is also along the field lines of force from the larger magnets) is a key part of it's operation.
This is when it hit me that it's not the magnets but how the force is applied that makes it different. Now that is getting us close to the next step.
Part of the field compression process that is storing force (not energy because magnets can't store energy they only store force) is canceled by the Roberval action between the two wheels.