Hello Mark and everyone else,

Great job on the through analysis here Mark. I've still got my face buried in data sheets and circuit diagrams for my "ultimate" DDS controller but I just thought I'd come out from under my rock to congratulate you on your continued efforts. I'm very happy to see that someone else is trying to understand the fundamental behavior of this energy. The data and results that you produce will be invaluable to us as we work on more complex systems such as Bob's coil. As soon as I get my control circuit wrapped up and ready to go, I'll be joining you at the bench to characterize this stuff.

@Grumpy,

Great information there! I'm surprised that the reference mentions the moving potentials like squeezing the hose. I think this is another very fundamental line of research that we need to throughly investigate... what can we exactly do to electrons in a wire with a fast changing E-field? in particular, a biased, changing E-field? I can see that Mark's experiments are going to shed a lot of light on this one.

God Bless,
Jason O

Keep it up Mark.   Your cutting quite a path.

You can probably induce current in conductors placed between two of those closed coils, one positive, other grounded.  Similar to experiments of Elihu Thompson and Ludec.  Will not be as profound as squeezing the core.

Just to see what happens, run a few loops of wire around the outside of the toroid, add load, and check.

I'm about to head off for a 10 days holliday with the family --

Latest tests indicate an unusual distributed transmission line resonance is responsable to the primary resoannce I have been looking at -- think of the toroidal coil as the sheath of a coaxial cable and the core coil as the central conductor. There is a significant capacitance between the sheath and the core conductor. In my case the capacitance between toroidal coil and core is 145 pF... and a 6 turn core coil has an inductance of 16 uH (the toroidal inductance is 87 uH). It seems that when you drive the potential of the toroidal coil you induce a resonance in the core coil - but you cant use lumped analysis -- the lumped LC resonance of the core coil and capacitance to the toroidal coil is predicted to be 3.3 Mhz -- but it's measured as 5.65 mHz with a minor peak at twice that frequency.

So -- I may have a clue as to some of the resonance modes now -- there are the standing waves in the toroidal coil as a transmission line and there is a resonance between the toroidal coil and core inductor as a distributed LC resonator. What is still unexplained is why the odd harmonics are so predominant almost everywhere -- particularly the 3rd harmonic. I have been discussing this with someone else with very considerable practical experience (including run-away OU devices) -- they see the same 3rd harmonic predominance in these sorts of devices.

... so finally I decided to do a quick test with a flat pancake coil laid on a conducting plane -- driving the conducting plane with a signal which is then capacitivly coupled to the entire pancake coil... low and behold it resonates - same (actually better) with a counterwound bifilar pancake coil?!?... and the bloody 3rd harmonic resoances are everywhere present ...

Now I am going to have to do some tests with a linear distributed tranmission line and see if I can stimulate the same sorts of resonances and harmonics -- bugger - that requires a more expensive build - a long coil in the precise center of a copper tube.

I know that 3 phase power systems are full of odd harmonic resonances -- particularly 3x harmonics... but what are these harmonics doing in toroidal and pancake coil systems driven by a single pure sine wave? -- is this some clue that these systems are coupling to or generating rotating 3 phase (3 dimentional - spinor?) fields? ... all things to ponder while I am away.

cheers

mark.

I don't see anything "odd" in this yet.

A short excerpt on 'squeezing the hose' ala Thomson...

Great find on the 'Peristaltic Induction' by Thomson, Grumpy..........

An interesting look backwards in time:

On Peristaltic Induction of Electric Currents in Submarine Telegraph Wires
By Professor W THOMSON M.A. F.R.S.

Recent examinations of the propagation of electricity through wires in subaqueous and subterranean telegraphic cables, have led to the observation of phenomena of induced electric currents, which are essentially different from the phenomena (discovered by Faraday many years ago) of what has hitherto been called electro-dynamic or electro-magnetic induction, but which, for the future, it will be convenient to designate exclusively by the term electro-magnetic. The new phenomena present a very perfect analogy with the mutual influences of a number of elastic tubes bound together laterally throughout their lengths, and surrounded and filled with a liquid which is forced through one or more of them, while the others are left with their ends open or closed. The hydrostatic pressure applied to force the liquid through any of the tubes will cause them to swell, and to press against the others, which will thus, by peristaltic action, compel the liquid contained in them to move in different parts of them in one direction or the other. A long solid cylinder of India-rubber, bored symmetrically in four, six, or more circular passages parallel to its length, will correspond to an ordinary telegraphic cable containing the same number of copper wires, separated from one another only by gutta percha; and the hydraulic motion will follow rigorously the same laws as the electrical conduction, and will be expressed by identical language in mathematics, provided the lateral dimensions of the bores are so small, in comparison with their lengths, or the viscosity of the fluid so great, that the motions are not sensibly affected by inertia, and are consequently dependent altogether on hydrostatic pressure and fluid friction. Hence the author considers himself justified in calling the kind of electric action now alluded to, peristaltic induction, to distinguish it from the electro-magnetic kind of electro-dynamic induction. The mathematical treatment of the problem of mutual peristaltic induction is contained in the paper brought before the Section; but the author confined himself in the meeting to mentioning some of the results. Among others, he mentioned, as being of practical importance, that the experiments which have been made on the transmission of currents backwards and forwards by the different wires of a multiple cable, do not indicate correctly the degree of retardation that is to be expected when signals are to be transmitted through the same amount of wire laid out in a cable of the full length. It follows, that expectations as to the working of a submarine telegraph between Britain and America, founded on such experiments, may prove fallacious; and to avoid the chance of prodigious losses in such an undertaking, the author suggested that the working of the Varna and Balaklava wire should be examined. He remarked that a part of the theory communicated by himself to the Royal Society last May, and published in the Proceedings, shows that a wire of six times the length of the Varna and Balaklava wire, if of the same lateral dimensions, would give thirty-six times the retardation, and thirty-six times the slowness of action. If the distinctness of utterance and rapidity of action practicable with the Varna and Balaklava wire are only such as to be not inconvenient, it would be necessary to have a wire of six times the diameter; or better, thirty-six wires of the same dimensions; or a larger number of still smaller wires twisted together, under a gutta percha covering, to give tolerably convenient action by a submarine cable of six times the length. The theory shows how, from careful observations on such a wire as that between Varna and Balaklava, an exact estimate of the lateral dimensions required for greater distances, or sufficient for smaller distances, may be made. Immense economy may be practised in attending to these indications of theory in all submarine cables constructed in future for short distances; and the non failure of great undertakings can alone be ensured by using them in a preliminary estimate.

Link: http://books.google.com/books?id=pOo4AAAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PA21&lpg=RA1-PA21&source=web&ots=y-nJf1a_3O&sig=TBEND1ORWgBehE3lxvWh73aRgpM#PRA1-PA21,M1