Quote from: shruggedatlas on October 26, 2007, 01:17:53 AM
You are mistaken.  I strongly defend anyone's right to present a viewpoint, especially in such a peaceful way as an Internet forum.  I am simply debating that viewpoint by presenting contradicting evidence.

Look, there are always going to be holes in any story.  Truthers want to fill these holes with something sinister.  I believe that the official story is largely correct.  We have direct evidence of planes hitting buildings.  We have the people on those planes missing.  We have many structural engineers that conclude that the way the buildings fell is plausible.  We do not have alot of data about other skyscrapers collapsing from plane impact because (surprise), this kind of thing does not happen very often.  Truthers use any uncertainty to say, "aha, it may not have happened this way."  That just does not cut it as far as convincing the masses.

Let me ask a simply question.  Where is the direct evidence that any terrorist did anything? - Other than the 1 fake Bin Laden tape, what evidence do we have?.  That's right..there is none.

Quote from: Freezer on October 26, 2007, 01:44:09 AM

Quote from: shruggedatlas on October 26, 2007, 01:17:53 AM
You are mistaken.  I strongly defend anyone's right to present a viewpoint, especially in such a peaceful way as an Internet forum.  I am simply debating that viewpoint by presenting contradicting evidence.

Look, there are always going to be holes in any story.  Truthers want to fill these holes with something sinister.  I believe that the official story is largely correct.  We have direct evidence of planes hitting buildings.  We have the people on those planes missing.  We have many structural engineers that conclude that the way the buildings fell is plausible.  We do not have alot of data about other skyscrapers collapsing from plane impact because (surprise), this kind of thing does not happen very often.  Truthers use any uncertainty to say, "aha, it may not have happened this way."  That just does not cut it as far as convincing the masses.

Let me ask a simply question.  Where is the direct evidence that any terrorist did anything? - Other than the 1 fake Bin Laden tape, what evidence do we have?.  That's right..there is none.

How can you say "none"?  Have you been living in a cave?

We have voice recordings from one of the hijackers accidentally talking with traffic controllers.  We have testimony of calls and recorded calls from cell phones and air phones from the planes describing the details of those hijackings.  We have videos of the hijackers at the airport.  We have live video footage of the hijacked plane hitting the second tower.  We have wreckage from all four sites.  We have amateur footage of the plane hitting the first tower.  We have identities of the hijackers and their links to Al Queda.  We have corroborating testimony from Al Queda members.  Al Queda has been all too happy to take credit for 9/11.  I could go on and on.

You want to debate that evidence, fine.  But to say there is no evidence is burying your head in the sand and ignoring any viewpoint but your own.

Quote from: shruggedatlas on October 26, 2007, 12:43:40 PM
We have identities of the hijackers and their links to Al Queda.  We have corroborating testimony from Al Queda members.  Al Queda has been all too happy to take credit for 9/11.  I could go on and on.
You want to debate that evidence, fine.  But to say there is no evidence is burying your head in the sand and ignoring any viewpoint but your own.

Just fits perfectly into place doesn't it?  Just because there's evidence of something, doesn't mean someone didn't plant that evidence.  Do you really believe they recovered a intact passport from the rubble of the world trade center collapse?

http://www.sierratimes.com/03/images/foia/foia-10001.jpg
http://www.sierratimes.com/03/images/foia/foia-10002.jpg

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/victims/AA77.victims.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/hijackers.html

Quote from: Freezer on October 26, 2007, 01:00:13 PM

Quote from: shruggedatlas on October 26, 2007, 12:43:40 PM
We have identities of the hijackers and their links to Al Queda.  We have corroborating testimony from Al Queda members.  Al Queda has been all too happy to take credit for 9/11.  I could go on and on.
You want to debate that evidence, fine.  But to say there is no evidence is burying your head in the sand and ignoring any viewpoint but your own.

Just fits perfectly into place doesn't it?  Just because there's evidence of something, doesn't mean someone didn't plant that evidence.  Do you really believe they recovered a intact passport from the rubble of the world trade center collapse?

http://www.sierratimes.com/03/images/foia/foia-10001.jpg
http://www.sierratimes.com/03/images/foia/foia-10002.jpg

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/victims/AA77.victims.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/hijackers.html

Yes, I believe it.  Anomalies happen and weird things survive plane wrecks.  Also, mistakes happen, as the articles you cite demonstrate.  The government has not been correct about everything, but that is a far cry from there existing a massive coverup.

I liken 9/11 truthers to Intelligent Design proponents.  The Intelligent Design proponents point to holes in the evolutionary theory and say, "see there, how can that happen naturally?  It can't; therefore an Intelligent Being designed it."  The theory survives only as long as the holes in the theory of evolution survive.  There is no independent evidence for Intelligent Design, only the absence of evidence from the other side.

9/11 truthers are much the same.  You point to an inconsistency and then milk it.  When one is explained, you focus on another.  So long as there exists one second of time frame unaccounted for and a single soul alive whose whereabouts cannot be vouched for (in other words, he was free to "plant evidence"), the conspiracy lives on.

The only way to win for you guys is to actually put forth positive evidence of your own.  And by positive, I do not mean anything that starts with "it could not have happened this way because . . ."  That is a dead end.  Too many people have already concluded that in fact the planes could have made that impact and the buildings could have fallen that way.  You need more.  You need to find evidence of the actual conspiracy - the people and correspondence and actual explosives used and the massive paper trail that has to be there somewhere.  Money was spent.  Where is the evidence of this?  Find this, and you win.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=DVL4IAKA9Lc