New photo data of the conventional toroid vs. the new primary from Thane & Luc. Thane added a note that he was sourcing out an oscilloscope current probe to double check the power factor to see if this is indeed over unity.

Quote from: JustMe on April 16, 2008, 11:15:44 PM
New photo data of the conventional toroid vs. the new primary from Thane & Luc. Thane added a note that he was sourcing out an oscilloscope current probe to double check the power factor to see if this is indeed over unity.

I WOULD ADD THAT UNFORTUNATELY WE CANNOT EXCEED 2.8 Vout WITHOUT SATURATING OUR SECONDARY AND CAUSING THE PRIMARY CURRENT TO INCREASE.

OUR CLAMP ON CURRENT METER GAVE US A  PRIMARY CURRENT OF < 20 mA..
IF THE POWER FACTOR IS < 0.7 THEN THIS IS OU.

LUC WILL BE WINDING NEW SECONDARIES THURS. AND FRIDAY TO GET THE SECONDARY VOLTAGE UP BEYOND (SHADOW OF DOUBT) UNCERTAINTY RANGE.

ALSO WE PUT THE CONVENTIONAL TOROID IN THERE TO CONVINCE OURSELVES THAT THE POWER FACTOR METER WAS STILL WORKING ALTHOUGH AT SUCH A LOW CURRENT IT MAY BE WACKED.

I DON'T TRUST ANY METER UNTIL I SEE THE SAME NUMBERS 3 DIFFERENT WAYS.

Thane

Quote from: OilBarren on April 16, 2008, 10:40:57 PM
1) HIGH CURRENT COILS IN PARALLEL = REGENERATIVE BRAKING
2) HIGH VOLTAGE COILS IN SERIES = REGENERATIVE ACCELERATION
3) HIGH CURRENT COILS IN SERIES = REGENERATIVE ACCELERATION
4) HIGH CURRENT COILS (PARALLEL) AND HIGH VOLTAGE COILS (SERIES) = REGENERATIVE COASTING
5) HIGH CURRENT COILS (SERIES) AND HIGH VOLTAGE COILS (SERIES) = REGENERATIVE BRAKING
6) DC MOTOR IN GENERATOR MODE + ( # 5 ) ABOVE = MAX REGENERATIVE BRAKING
Thane

Thane, from your own experiments and results, you can easily see by now, that I have not been misdirecting you with regards to establishing that impedance Vs frequency are the underlying key factors involved here. Of course magnet and core and coil parameters e.g size, length, turns etc are important subsets of those parameters which determine the correct (minimum) frequency for a given impedance, because they determine inductance, field strength etc.

All your above results are consistent with these key factors : impedance and frequency.

1. Two high current (low impedance) coils in parallel = regenerative breaking.
They comprise an impedance value of half the value of only one coil. That is Ztotal = 1 / Z1 + Z2
Where Z is the inductive reactance (impedance) of each coil. So you will have a lower impedance which needs a much higher frequency for the phase shift to cause an accelerative effect and not a decelerative one.

2. Two high voltage (higher impedance) coils in series = regenerative acceleration .
They comprise an impedance value of twice the value of only one coil. That is Ztotal = Z1 + Z2
So you will have a higher impedance which needs lower frequency for the phase shift to cause an accelerative effect (which you have) and not a decelerative one.

3. Two high current (low impedance) coils in series = regenerative acceleration .
They comprise an impedance value of twice the value of only one coil. Again that is Ztotal = Z1 + Z2
Again you will have a higher impedance which needs lower frequency for the phase shift to cause an accelerative effect (which you have) and not a decelerative one.

Note here that your low impedance coils in series form a total impedance which is obviously enough ( for the rpm you're currently running at), because the  accelerating effect is now apparent in the series configuration. You may have noticed in my alternator experiments, that the cores and coils were all individually very low impedance. But all eight of them were hooked up in series. 

4) High current coils in parallel and high voltage coils in series = regenerative coasting.
Good observation. If the two coil types are connect as two separated circuits, then it is likely the result of each separate coil circuit being slightly out of phase with each other as well as the inducing mmf.

5) High current coils in series and high voltage coils in series  = regenerative breaking.
For the same reasons as in 4 above, if the two coil types are separate circuits, then there will likely be a phase difference between them.

(Post edit) If all four individual coils were on separate cores, then this phase differential between the high and low cores would not be exist, provided all four cores were correctly placed with respect to each other.

In your experimental setup shown in the photos, the high and low impedance coils are located on the same cores but at differing distances from the magnet face. This means they will experience a time lag (phase difference) between them with respect to the changing inducing flux from the magnets. ...........

If all four coils (that is, high voltage and high current coils) are wound in series as a single circuit, the result will very likely be the same as your own examples 2 and 3 above. There is a limit on how high an impedance you can go before the effect is no longer accelerative, but from what I noticed of the coils you've shown, it is unlikely you will encounter that as a problem. Both low current coils in series would only have approximately the same impedance as one single high voltage coil.

6) 6) DC MOTOR IN GENERATOR MODE + ( # 5 ) ABOVE = MAX REGENERATIVE BRAKING

Yep, exactly what you'd expect from a typical closed system. And if you get acceleration with this then you're a miracle worker.     

Keep on keepin on.!

Cheers and KneeDeep

Quote from: hoptoad on April 17, 2008, 01:24:02 AM

2. Two high voltage (higher impedance) coils in series = regenerative acceleration .

@hoptoad
Cld you (or someone) give me an idea of what is regenerative acceleratoin? I get regenerative braking but I don't get what the power flow is for regenerative acceleration. In regenerative braking the buggy gives back its kinetic energy to charge the battery - that's easy. But if the buggy accelerates, it has to gain kinetic energy which must use power and that power has to come from somewhere - form the batery I guess. So how does the "regenerative" thing come into play? Sorry to ask dumb questions but I'm trying to figure this out.
-Mike

QuoteThane, from your own experiments and results, you can easily see by now, that I have not been misdirecting you

.

I WOULD NEVER SUGGEST THAT YOU WOULD.

QuoteAll your above results are consistent with these key factors : impedance and frequency.

QuoteYou may have noticed in my alternator experiments, that the cores and coils were all individually very low impedance. But all eight of them were hooked up in series. 

I MAKE IT A POINT NOT TO REVIEW OTHER PEOPLE'S WORK - I AM AFRAID IT WOULD DISTRACT ME FROM MY OWN INTUITIVE PROCESS - SO I AM SORRY I HAVE NOT SEEN YOUR WORK.

QuoteYep, exactly what you'd expect from a typical closed system. And if you get acceleration with this then you're a miracle worker.     

ABOVE THE CRITICAL SPEED THRESHOLD THIS SCENARIO WILL ALSO ACCELERATE.
THERE SHOULD BE A # 6 WHERE ALL COILS ARE IN PARALLEL WHICH WOULD PROVIDE MAX DECELERATION AND REGENERATION.

Thane

ps
AETHER22 DID TSUNAMI HIT YOUR HOMETOWN?