Thane can you please tell me if this would work: if i built a generator using magnets on the prime mover and high voltage coils, then take the high voltage from thows coils and put them through a step down transformer to get say 12v but high current and use this power to drive a load, would the rotor still speed up because im using high voltage coils even though im transforming the power into high current?

if this is so, could a pulse motor such as a bedini be used to move the magnets over the coils, and if so could this setup produce OU ?

Quote from: mfred68 on April 23, 2008, 01:19:48 PM
Thane can you please tell me if this would work: if i built a generator using magnets on the prime mover and high voltage coils, then take the high voltage from thows coils and put them through a step down transformer to get say 12v but high current and use this power to drive a load, would the rotor still speed up because im using high voltage coils even though im transforming the power into high current?

if this is so, could a pulse motor such as a bedini be used to move the magnets over the coils, and if so could this setup produce OU ?

I JUST PERFOMED A TEST TO CORRECTLY ANSWER YOUR QUESTION - STEPPING DOWN THE HIGH VOLTAGE COIL'S OUTPUT HAS NO NEGATIVE EFFECT ON THE ACCELERATION PHENOMENON. PLACING THE STEPPED DOWN VOLTAGE ON A LOAD HAS AN EFFECT ON REDUCING THE RATE OF ACCELERATION ONLY.

I.E.
NO LOAD (OPEN CIRCUIT) = NO ACCELERATION
AN INFINITE LOAD (SHORT CIRCUIT) = MAXIMUM ACCELERATION

SORRY I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT BEDINI SYSTEMS SO I HAVE NO COMMENT - PERHAPS SOMEONE ELSE CAN?

CHEERS
Thane

Quote from: OilBarren on April 23, 2008, 06:42:54 AM

Quote from: LarryC on April 22, 2008, 10:34:06 PM
Hi All,

I'm posting this to save others wasting time. I tried my HV 205 ohms coil and 6 Lee Valley 1" magnets with and without cups on a ceiling fan induction motor. A ceiling fan induction motor is like a inverse version of the bench grinding induction motor that Thane uses. The shunted bar rotor is on the outside edge instead of in the middle. Using the low speed fan setting ( 27 watts at 605 rpm) there was no acceleration only slight declaration.

Hopefully, I,ll be getting a Ryobi bench grinder soon.

Regards,
Larry

DID YOU TRY A HIGHER SPEED?
WHAT WAS YOUR COIL OUTPUT VOLTAGE?
DO YOU HAVE PHOTOS?

Thane
   

I did try all three speeds. The rpms at medium and low were high for a fan motor (680, 655, and 605). I guess this is due to the light load without the fan blades. The input watts was 40, 30, and 27. The 680 didn't slow down at all, the 655 to 652, the 605 to 596.

The coil output was 32 Volts at 27 MA.

I also varies the coil distance from 1/2 to 1/8 inch.

The first picture is the motor with the  6 neos on the edge and one small neo taped to the side for the tach sensor.

The second has the coil, watt meter and tach.

Larry

Quote from: OilBarren on April 23, 2008, 03:33:12 PM

Quote from: mfred68 on April 23, 2008, 01:19:48 PM
Thane can you please tell me if this would work: if i built a generator using magnets on the prime mover and high voltage coils, then take the high voltage from thows coils and put them through a step down transformer to get say 12v but high current and use this power to drive a load, would the rotor still speed up because im using high voltage coils even though im transforming the power into high current?

if this is so, could a pulse motor such as a bedini be used to move the magnets over the coils, and if so could this setup produce OU ?

I JUST PERFOMED A TEST TO CORRECTLY ANSWER YOUR QUESTION - STEPPING DOWN THE HIGH VOLTAGE COIL'S OUTPUT HAS NO NEGATIVE EFFECT ON THE ACCELERATION PHENOMENON. PLACING THE STEPPED DOWN VOLTAGE ON A LOAD HAS AN EFFECT ON REDUCING THE RATE OF ACCELERATION ONLY.

I.E.
NO LOAD (OPEN CIRCUIT) = NO ACCELERATION
AN INFINITE LOAD (SHORT CIRCUIT) = MAXIMUM ACCELERATION

SORRY I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT BEDINI SYSTEMS SO I HAVE NO COMMENT - PERHAPS SOMEONE ELSE CAN?

CHEERS
Thane

I'm a little confused, you stated that a short circuit (could this be a heavy power hungry load such as several high wattage bulbs?) will speed up the acceleration of the prime mover, but you also say that placing a load (could this also be a short circuit?) on the stepped down voltage has the effect of reducing acceleration, so you get the oppasite effect?
is it the fact that the stepped down high current voltage has the same effect as with the high current coils?

Do you know how much current and voltage you get out of your high voltage coils that cause acceleration? and if its like 120v or 240v, what would happen to the speed of the prime mover if you connect a 100w bulb instead of a short circuit accross the output?

I'm a little confused,

ME TOO!
MOST OF THE TIME

you stated that a short circuit (could this be a heavy power hungry load such as several high wattage bulbs?)

COULD BE BUT MAKE SURE YOU PUT THEM IN PARALLEL.

will speed up the acceleration of the prime mover,

YES

but you also say that placing a load (could this also be a short circuit?)

YES A SHORT CIRCUIT IS INFINITE LOAD ( 0 ohms ).
AN OPEN CIRCUIT IS NO LOAD ( infinite ohms ) WHERE THE GENERATOR IS CONCERNED.

on the stepped down voltage has the effect of reducing acceleration, so you get the oppasite effect?

I SAID (OR TRIED TO SAY) SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT THAT;
1 - 10 ohm LOAD WILL REDUCE THE RATE OF ACCELERATION AS OPPOSED TO:
10 - 10 ohm LOADS IN PARALLEL DUE TO THE INCREASED CONDUCTIVITY

is it the fact that the stepped down high current voltage has the same effect as with the high current coils?

IT WOULD NOT SAY THAT - I WOULD SAY THAT:

THE LOADED HIGH VOLTAGE COILS CAUSE ACCELERATION.
THE RATE OF ACCELERATION DEPENDS ON THE LOAD MAGNITUDE.

THE LOADED HIGH CURRENT COILS CAUSE DECELERATION
THE RATE OF DECELERATION DEPENDS ON THE LOAD MAGNITUDE.

HOWEVER HIGH CURRENT COILS WITH AN INFINITE LOAD (SHORT CIRCUIT) WILL ALSO CAUSE ACCELERATION IF THE SPEED OF THE ROTOR IS IDEAL.

Do you know how much current and voltage you get out of your high voltage coils that cause acceleration?

IT VARIES THE HIGHEST ACCELERATED VOLTAGE WAS 1100 V
AND THE LOWEST (STILL CAUSING ACCELERATION) WAS ABOUT 30 V

IT ALL DEPENDS ON CORE MATERIAL, AIR GAP, COIL PLACEMENT  (COGGING TORQUE) ETC.

and if its like 120v or 240v, what would happen to the speed of the prime mover if you connect a 100w bulb instead of a short circuit accross the output?

IT DEPENDS ON THE RESITANCE OF YOUR LIGHT BULB,

I.E:

A 1 ohm 100 W BULB WILL CAUSE GOOD ACCELERATION

WHEREAS A 1000 ohm BULB WILL CAUSE POOR ACCELERATION

- BUT 1000 - 1000 ohm LIGHT BULBS IN PARALLEL WILL CAUSE GOOD ACCELERATION.

AND FINALLY AN INFINITE NUMBER OF 1000 ohm LIGHT BULBS IN PARALLEL WILL CAUSE
MAXIMUM ACCELERATION.

CHEERS
Thane