Quote from: aether22 on May 11, 2008, 10:03:45 PM

Q: "how do you know less heat is not being produced and the effect is simply not making the generator more efficient, and producing less heat?"

Good question.

Well you don't, and if this was merely a motor generator that accelerated when the secondaries were shorted far fewer people would be interested including me because it could very well be some mundane effect. (and would likely be assumed to be such)

But to many of us one single experiment sets this apart, it is an experiment that has not been explained, that is of course the initial experiment where the difference between a steel or brass coupling between the generator and motor makes all the difference, and that is a very very worthwhile anomoly!

@aether, I thought that the difference between steel nd brass and also PVC was abandoned now -see below. If I understand corrrectly the whoel idea of "something" feeding abck into the motor down the shaft has been abandoned and instead its concentrating on different coils on the generator. So the basic theory of operation seems to ahve changed completely. Id' appreciate someone posting anupdate of where thats at...?
- Mike

Quote from: OilBarren on April 24, 2008, 08:06:17 AM

IS a ferromagnetic material required or not (the PVC would indicate "not")?  So, what about the brass ...?       

I BELIEVE THAT THE BRASS COUPLING EXPERIMENT WHEN "MAGNETICLLY COUPLED" WITH THE STEEL BAR - RAISED THE INDUCTION MOTOR SPEED TO ABOVE THE CRITICAL THRESHOLD SPEED REQUIRED TO CAUSE ACCELERATION.

ORIGINAL YOUTUBE DEMO VIDEOS BEAR THIS OUT BECAUSE PART 2 IS ROTATING FASTER THAN PART 1 (READ THE "TACH METER" TO THE RIGHT) WHEN THE STEEL BAR IS INSERTED. WE KNOW FROM PART 5 THAT AN EXTERNALLY APPLIED DC MAGNETIC FIELD CAN INCREASE AN INDUCTION MOTOR'S RPM.

QuoteSince you still have the hollow brass coupling available on the original system, why not make up a RANGE of "slugs" which would fit inside that brass tube, and experiment with a variety of OTHER materials -- from other metals, to plastics ... and even various powders ... mercury, sodium ... etc. -- in an effort to see what IS "conducted" into the motor from the coils/magnets ...?

WE CAN GET THE ACCELERATION EFFECT WITH A PLEXIGLASS ROTOR - AND A MOTOR THAT IS 21/2 FEET AWAY FROM THE COILS USING PVC PIPE AS WELL AS NON FEROMAGNETIC STAINLESS STEAL ROD. THAT IS SIMPLY ENOUGH FOR ME.

THE HOLLOW BRASS COUPLER IS NOW A MUSEUM PIECE.

Thane

Ok, here are the first results, I didn't spend a great deal of time doing tests (as I only got everything together kinda late) so maybe I will have better luck tomorrow, but so far no luck and I have no idea what is wrong.

I run it with the home made Triac based motor speed controller (the rotor is directly on the bench grinder axle) it accelerates slowly when on the lowest power setting, but it does accelerate pretty much the same regardless of the state of the HV coils, shorting the coils makes no change I can notice one way or the other.

When I try stepping it down to 80v (rms) by a transformer it does not accelerate but takes longer to stop when spun up by hand if powered (still not noted difference between OS or SC), I can not by hand reach a high enough speed for any effect to kick in. (assuming it would kick in)

I have not yet setup a switch so shorting the coils is a shocking experience, I will wire one up tomorrow.
I will also try shorting different ohm ranges in the coil in case 587 ohms is simply too high.
From this I conclude that I should find the lowest transformed voltage I can get into it that can make it slowly accelerate, somewhat above 80v but below 240v.
I do have an autotransformer (a variac like transformer which really only has one coil) but it is kind of broken and I am unsure if I will be able to get it to work.

Thane, if you could build a simple Triac motor speed controller and see if it works for you that could be better than me trying to buy an expensive Variac, if you are willing I'll find the plans I used, very simple. (I just breadboarded mine)

Q1: Thane, do you want me to find the Triac plane?

At any rate if I find that improving the input is of no advantage then I'll go to a hardware store and purchase a Ryobi bench grinder, and once verifying it doesn't make any difference I will return it and buy one the same model as Thanes (or ask Thane to send me the one he initially planned).

If none of that works then I'll send Thane my coil to make sure it is not the problem.
Scratch that, first I'd cut over a microwave over transformer. (note: 240v ones likely have fewer turns on the secondary, but maybe not it might just be the primary that differs, Thane or luc can you tell me how many ohms the uwave xformer sec coils read?)

Q2: Thane or Luc, can you measure the resistance of 110v microwave transformer secondaries?

I will also try and make an air core coil as a 'secondary' tachometer to verify the first one isn't wonky, it seems good most of the time but not always.
Thane, in your opinion what RPM should I not need to go above to get the effect to noticeably kick in?

Q3: Thane, what is the highest speed you think I might need to reach to have the effect be obvious if it is in fact working?

The gap between the steel of the coil and the neos on the rotor varies from about 3mm to 9mm due to imperfections in the wheel and welding, 6mm might sound bad but it's far better than anything I managed to put together. (it would not be possible to have the magnets any closer unless I added another set of magnets on top or a set of fatter magnets because otherwise the coil would be cut by the wheel rim)

I WILL get this to work, even if I need to plead with Thane to send me a complete package including coils, or send Thane my setup, or eventually even visit Thane!
But perhaps more immediately expedient, Thane would you be interested in me making a video of my failed attempt. (assuming it remains failed tomorrow)

Q4: Thane, want a video of my setup in action? See if you can spot any error?

I suppose another possibility would be that it is working to a point of balance, meaning that it is causing an equal amount of acceleration and deceleration, if so running it in isolation (non steel shaft which is able to stop the effect in all cases where a single coil has been used) may find shorting the HV coil slows the rotor where running it connected has no effect, not as dramatic but still interesting. (note quite sure I can do as much with 'no effect' though.)

Q3: Also Thane do you think the extra high resistance might be the downfall of my coil?


I know this is a messy email and no fun to reply to, but I've gotta get this working and so far I'm just bamboozled, it has been successfully replicated by most who attempted, in fact my attempt is IMO the only one which appears to be a complete failure without some pretty good idea as to what was wrong. (If I understand I_Ron's attempt correctly it was quite different, and Larry had at least some success)

In the end I wonder if maybe it is a combination of my core material supporting too much in the way of eddy currents (like an extreme shorted high current coil) and the resistance/impedance of my coil being over double anything you have run adding up to a null net effect. If so a microwave transformer may be the best bet as soon as I verify mine will be suited so if you get that ohm figure to me within about 8-12 hours I should be able to test it tomorrow assuming it matches.

Quote from: Super God on May 11, 2008, 10:34:10 AM

...I thought this was about watts not oranges. =D

Yes, very true, it's about watts, not oranges. I was trying to use an analogy to illustrate the flaw in Larry's thinking. So, forget oranges. Back to Larry's original statement:

Quote from: LarryC on May 10, 2008, 06:50:40 PM

If it were possible to feed the 7.7W back to the grid. Then the utility company would only charge us for 122.3W while using 130W. Whoa   Now you're generating 130W of heat using 122.3W.

Larry's logic requires that if you sell 7.7W back to the grid, you get to use that 7.7W too in your own system. That's not the case - if you use it in your own system, it's not available to sell back to the grid; or conversely, if you sell it back to the grid, it's not available to use in your own system.

DUNE BUGGY GENERATOR COILS - FOR BENCH TESTING

Thane

Quote from: OUman on May 12, 2008, 07:11:42 AM

Quote from: markzpeiverson on May 12, 2008, 12:35:37 AM

The whole reason for the element of probability in Quantum Mechanics (QM) ala the Uncertainty Principle is because we are dealing with oscillations that are of a very high frequency; many orders of magnitude higher than even our fastest pulsed lasers.  The likelihood of our instruments 'illuminating' or catching the oscillation is highest at either extent where the oscillation has to slow down and reverse direction.  However, get a fast enough 'strobe' light with the ability to very finely tune frequency and phase, and the probabilistic nature of QM will vanish!

-M

You have misunderstood the Uncertainty Principle. The probabilistic nature of QM is NOT to do with the ability/inability of instruments to measure accurately enough. It is much more fundamental than that. Google the subject and you'll find the proper interpretation.

That is certainly possible, but I am at least familiar with the explanation you refer to.  Care to explain how we are able to measure and distinguish elements which are on the order of the Planck length (10^--34m)?  If so, please do it thru email since I don't want to waste more room on what can only be a philosophical debate... The most energetic EM radiation known (gamma rays) has a wavelength of perhaps 10^-21m. That's still over 10 decimal places larger that the dimension of the Planck scale... thus, in my humble opinion, plunging QM into the realm of probability.  Let's not even get into the mathematical machinations that QM has had to resort to in order to become an acceptable model.  It is an accurate model within its realm, but far from complete.  And there are now models gaining favor which do not have to resort to mathematical 'adjustments'...

In case you aren't aware of it, there are numerous interpretations of QM as discussed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpretation_of_quantum_mechanics.  All the facts, m'am, all the facts.

JMHO,
-M