YOU CAN SEE HOW I DID IT HERE:
(YELLOW COIL TO THE RIGHT)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogLeKTlLy5E

AND HERE:
WHITE COIL TOP-MIDDLE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vX8Cxkrpqs&feature=related

I DID NOT CALIBRATE - JUST USED IT TO VIEW ROTOR SPEED REACTIONS ON THE VOLTMETER.

Thane

Quote from: aether22 on May 13, 2008, 09:26:59 PM

Thanes HV coils aren't, they are only really HV when open circuit at which point they have little effect.
When they are shorted they have very little in the way of conventional voltage, which is to say an imbalance of charges, this is because every inch of wire resists current and every inch picks up an induced voltage, If the coil were 'perfect' there would be no 'charge imbalance' voltage.

However that is not the only kind of voltage that in fairness exists, if you know the ohms, the current and the 'left over' impedance you can tell how much voltage there is when shorted (Which IS NOT the same as the open circuit voltage due to the current in the generator coil cancelling the rotors field), and while it will be something it will not be near as much as when it is open circuit.  (Another way to tell is to have another cowound coil (of a fractional number of turns) that remains open circuited and measured for voltage the whole time, you can even compare the voltage it has when the other coil is and is not shorted to see the voltage drop)

And what happens when you add 2 such coils together? (refering to 2 HV coils as in the uwave transformer demo)

From a standard electrical view, very little when shorted, the difference between shorting a coil through it's self and through an identical coil induced identically is zero because no charge imbalance voltage is generated.

And this other 'type' of 'voltage' is different in that it does not really add up, 1 + 1 is not 2, it's just 1 over here and 1 over here,  A voltage is generated by each inch of wire and is 'expended' over that same inch of wire because the current is allowed to run at it's limit.

An analogy would be the difference between a 90 mile river and a 2 mile river, if water flows at the same speed and volume past a point it does not matter how much more river there is up stream or down stream. (until you build a damn, then it makes a huge difference, depending on how mach area you are willing to flood)

In the same way you will have the same number of electrons flow past a section of wire at the same speed in a 30 gauge wire shorted coil around a time varying magnetic field if it's 1 turn or 1,000 turns. (That is not actually quite true because 1,000 turns will create more counter emf, but a 1,000 single turn loops would be identican to a single 1,000 turn coil)

Thane, if you do not believe me then when being careful to run the motor at the same speed (while leaving the HC coils open) measure the current flowing through the HV coil shorted in series, and each one shorted individually, you will see the same current in both instances)

That is absolute fact ELECTRICALLY, however the aether is another matter entierly!
More turns means a faster more powerful flow.
Thanes recent results still insist an aether (or other 'out there' theory involving 'something else' flowing in the wire besides electric fields and electrons).

I THINK WE NEED TO LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENS WHEN A VOTAGE IS SIMULTANEOUSLY INDUCED AND DROPPED ACROSS THE SAME COIL?
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/ohmlaw.html#c2

Thane

Quote from: OilBarren on May 14, 2008, 06:49:36 AM
YOU CAN SEE HOW I DID IT HERE:
(YELLOW COIL TO THE RIGHT)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogLeKTlLy5E

AND HERE:
WHITE COIL TOP-MIDDLE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vX8Cxkrpqs&feature=related

I DID NOT CALIBRATE - JUST USED IT TO VIEW ROTOR SPEED REACTIONS ON THE VOLTMETER.

Thane

Hmmm, well why didn't I think of that?
That is more practical since I have noted with every frequency counting meter I have (including a new frequency bench meter!) a tendancy to measure the wrong 'signal' sometimes or become somehow confused at times.

So using voltage should be quite practical and hopefully less prone to error. (BTW if the optical tach was reading correctly at the time I have had the rotor up to 30 hz or 1800rpm without the effect being observed, and that is with 18 magnets on the rotor!)

One thing though, do you always have meters so far away because if they are closer things get screwy, or is it just how you prefer to work or for clarity of demo?

Well in an ideal shoted generating coil there is no voltage drop (or rise) at all, and the microwave coils would be decently close to 'ideal'.

At any rate that 'law' is extremely obvious and has no bearing on my point.

note: it is also possible that my usage of the word 'voltage drop' in the above sentance is compatible only to that link you posted and not applicable to how you or I may have applied the word. (mainly because there is no source of 'voltage' in the sense that website refers to in this cae)

Anyway I hope the point is clear, that electrically there can be no difference (as long as we keep things purely electrical) between a single shorted generating coil or 2 identically induced in series.

One other noteworthy thing is that if my Eyes don't decieve me the microwave setup is almost a magnetically closed circuit which is interesting, in part since if not required for the effect it is more practical.

Quote from: aether22 on May 13, 2008, 09:26:59 PM

Thanes HV coils aren't, they are only really HV when open circuit at which point they have little effect.
When they are shorted they have very little in the way of conventional voltage, which is to say an imbalance of charges, this is because every inch of wire resists current and every inch picks up an induced voltage, If the coil were 'perfect' there would be no 'charge imbalance' voltage.

However that is not the only kind of voltage that in fairness exists, if you know the ohms, the current and the 'left over' impedance you can tell how much voltage there is when shorted (Which IS NOT the same as the open circuit voltage due to the current in the generator coil cancelling the rotors field), and while it will be something it will not be near as much as when it is open circuit. 

@aether, I'm not followign this sorry. I thought that if any coil is shorted its voltage must always be zero (if its a prefect short of course) - even though the coil itself isn't "perfect" (meanign it has resistance and reactance). What's that other kind of voltage thats not zero? Is it to do with the aether flow? IS there the same effect in the bi-torroid transformer? Can you send me link to get info about all this, sorry to bug you.
-Mike