PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?

[JouleSeeker]

Professor,
[snip]
I'm glad there is a good possibility of using the calorimeter, i put my money on that method

Jaime

PS: Regarding the procedure with the calorimeter, will it measure the power converted to light by the led? Using a diode would ensure all the power is converted to heat.
Can there be wires comming from the circuit to the outside of the calorimeter?

Yes, even light will be captured in the closed calorimeter and converted to heat.
There may be THIN wires from circuit to environment... this is not a problem.

@Forest - good point.  LED placed in light will produce a voltage.

[JouleSeeker]

@Laneal -- I built the circuit you suggested, attached LEFT.

For comparison, I show Xee2's circuit RIGHT.

I re-built the Xee2 circuit with new components, so that I could implement your mods (left) and make comparisons.     But I used 3Mohms instead of 2Mohoms, and a 3.3mF cap.

As I noted previously, the Xee2-circuit (like the sj1 circuit) shows a "re-brightening effect" -- and I think this is an interesting effect:

1.  Stage 1, the green LED glows brightly at first (3.13V) but dims rapidly, essentially off at 1.674V .

2.  Off or about 4 seconds, then

3.  The LED comes back on again, and now the power consumption is way down.

In stage 1, the Pinput measured by the cap/time method is about 1400 uW.
In stage 3, the  Pinput measured by the cap/time method is about 8 uW, for this build.

I find this dramatic off-rebrighten effect with LARGE change in power consumption to be very interesting.  I can't explain it yet. 

Now, the Laneal mod, shows Pinput as:

1.6V to 1.5V in 68 sec => 7.4uW, about the same as the Xee2 version

[xee2]

1.  Stage 1, the green LED glows brightly at first (3.13V) but dims rapidly, essentially off at 1.674V .

With Vin = 3.13 volts you are driving the LED directly from the battery/capacitor through the collector coil. This is equivalent to putting the LED directly on the battery and there is no current limiting except for the LED. When Vin drops to below the LED turn on voltage, then the LED is only turning on when the magnetic field of the collector coil collapses.

[nul-points]

 

With Vin = 3.13 volts you are driving the LED directly from the battery/capacitor through the collector coil. This is equivalent to putting the LED directly on the battery and there is no current limiting except for the LED. When Vin drops to below the LED turn on voltage, then the LED is only turning on when the magnetic field of the collector coil collapses.

i agree - for the Xee2 circuit - but this explanation doesn't apply for the other circuits (eg SJ1) where the LED is connected in reverse polarity to the DC supply


WRT  Forest's comment about the 'solar' power characteristic of LEDs:
i've used LEDs as a supply source for v. low-powered circuits in the past and they will only provide input when they are connected with a particular polarity (ie. forward biased wrt the supply rail polarity - as in xee2's example)

for example, you'll notice from all my SJ1 variants posted here, that i always have the LED reverse-biased wrt the supply rail polarity - this way the LED is never providing additional supply as an optical source (and incidentally, neither will it experience 'direct drive' from the source if the supply voltage is increased greater than the LED 'turn-on' voltage)


for circuits which DO have the LED in the same polarity sense as the supply then the tests results can be confirmed with some test runs either in a suitably darkened room,  or with the LED suitably covered

hope this helps
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com

[JouleSeeker]

i agree - for the Xee2 circuit - but this explanation doesn't apply for the other circuits (eg SJ1) where the LED is connected in reverse polarity to the DC supply


WRT  Forest's comment about the 'solar' power characteristic of LEDs:
i've used LEDs as a supply source for v. low-powered circuits in the past and they will only provide input when they are connected with a particular polarity (ie. forward biased wrt the supply rail polarity - as in xee2's example)

for example, you'll notice from all my SJ1 variants posted here, that i always have the LED reverse-biased wrt the supply rail polarity - this way the LED is never providing additional supply as an optical source (and incidentally, neither will it experience 'direct drive' from the source if the supply voltage is increased greater than the LED 'turn-on' voltage)


for circuits which DO have the LED in the same polarity sense as the supply then the tests results can be confirmed with some test runs either in a suitably darkened room,  or with the LED suitably covered

hope this helps
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com

Excellent points, Xee2 and NP...  especially this (NP):

i agree - for the Xee2 circuit - but this explanation doesn't apply for the other circuits (eg SJ1) where the LED is connected in reverse polarity to the DC supply

Last evening I was re-checking the waveforms.  Xee2 circuit at 3+ volts shows no circuit pulsing, and direct LED lighting is confirmed.  Pulsing starts at lower voltage, around 1.6V in my build.

OTOH, sj1 circuit always shows pulsing when operating, and the waveform has a complicated high-frequency pattern, typically over 1 MHz.

Thanks again.