Fernando`s Force multiplier

[markusbraunfe]

Hi i_ron, thanks for your replication efforts.

You said no OU so far.
But how about this theory:
due to the CW/CCW rotaton the output shaft contantly speeds up and down, mechanically there is probably no OU but since the generator is directly attached
it gets slowed up and down constantly and this could trigger some strange electromagnetic effect and lead to OU ?

Could someone expert in electromagnetics chime in here ( UFOPolitics etc).

The output current (if alternate) is probably a sine wave with varying frequency  so in order to be usable I assume you have to convert it into DC and then back to AC using an inverter.

Ron, do you have the possibility to attach a generator to your output shaft and then attach some load to it and measure what the input to output power ratios are?

Another idea if my theory is correct, that OU takes place in the generator and not at mechanical level:
I did not do the math but perhaps one could replace the crank with oval sprockets and a chain and obtain a similar speed curve and it would be probably more robust and not destroy itself easily like
the version with the crank.. Putting a counterweight  to the oval sprockets should keep the eccentricity of the wheels at a minimum.

Let me know what you guys think about my theories.

I think if it's real, then Fernando just discovered the effect accidentally by trial and error and does not really know what's going on inside the machine.

I thought the difference between having both shafts turning CW and the shafts turning CW/CCW
would be a proof of gain. Not found, With a 300mm proof bar and a spring scale indicating 1 Kg in each case, the CW case drew 2 amps while the shafts rotating in opposite directions drew 2.32 amps. This is with the shafts 280mm apart and an eccentric of 12mm, (1 inch total) and 290mm, 4.35 Kg flywheels.

Perhaps weights and dimensions are critical?

Regards, Ron

[Honza]

Hi Marcuc and all others

if my theory is correct, that OU takes place in the generator and not at mechanical level

From all I have researched about Ramos multiplier (and Ucros multiplier) points towards the overunity been generated on mechanical level. In one of his interviews Ramos stated that he produced the unit initially without a generator and disguised it as a hydraulic powerpack and other engineers from his work could not understand how it can work when he disclose it to them / pulled it apart.

Both Ramos and Ucros describe the movement of energy in their units as" recycling". Ramos gives the analogy of Kungfu - where instead of resisting the energy of attacker one adds to it and merely changes the direction.
In Ramos unit a part of inertia of the mechanical system is during each revolution transferred forward from one wheel to other and from there back to the first wheel in a figure 8 motion. The speed fluctuation is needed to create the inertia transfer.

In Ucros unit there is no need for speed changes because there the recycled energy is not inertial - he recycles torque. During each cycle part of the torque generated by gravity is transferred forward and returned back again.

In Terawatt system they appear to achieve much the same as in Ramos unit (only softer) by magnetic oscillations on mechanical level. They don't even have any generator on the output.

Ramos unit is construction-wise very challenging as it deals with tremendous forces. What could help is some sort of mechanical softening of the peaks.
What could be worth trying is bearings pressed into in rubber bushes. This should help to get it going but it would add to the durability issues.
Alternatively the design can be modified by separating the cranks from the flywheel & shaft assemblies, and having the cranks mounted on it flexibly (via springs ?). This would be a durable solution for smoothing the peaks but could reduce the multiplication effect.
Ramos unit will never be easy to build but the reported multiplication factor is so great that it is definitely worth the effort.

cheers

[DreamThinkBuild]

Hi Honza,

Thank you for showing the Ucros device.

Seems to work like a seesaw. It has a balanced beam, with balanced weights but as one weight is pushing one crank down it is aiding pulling the other weighted crank up. A balanced beam takes very little energy to move back and forth.

The only thing I'm unsure of is the power take off is it constant or only on the weight of the down stroke? Also is the drive motor turned off during the pull up phase and driven during the push up phase? It's very hard to see the pictures and writing on them.

[i_ron]

Hi i_ron, thanks for your replication efforts.

You said no OU so far.
But how about this theory:
due to the CW/CCW rotaton the output shaft contantly speeds up and down, mechanically there is probably no OU but since the generator is directly attached
it gets slowed up and down constantly and this could trigger some strange electromagnetic effect and lead to OU ?

Could someone expert in electromagnetics chime in here ( UFOPolitics etc).

The output current (if alternate) is probably a sine wave with varying frequency  so in order to be usable I assume you have to convert it into DC and then back to AC using an inverter.

Ron, do you have the possibility to attach a generator to your output shaft and then attach some load to it and measure what the input to output power ratios are?

Another idea if my theory is correct, that OU takes place in the generator and not at mechanical level:
I did not do the math but perhaps one could replace the crank with oval sprockets and a chain and obtain a similar speed curve and it would be probably more robust and not destroy itself easily like
the version with the crank.. Putting a counterweight  to the oval sprockets should keep the eccentricity of the wheels at a minimum.

Let me know what you guys think about my theories.

I think if it's real, then Fernando just discovered the effect accidentally by trial and error and does not really know what's going on inside the machine.

Some good theories...some not so. The flywheel and generator together are not going to experience any speed fluctuations. The lighter driven flywheel, with its belt drive, will do the attempted speed variation.


My machine is kaput, so no generator trials possible


Ron

[Honza]

I'm unsure of is the power take off is it constant or only on the weight of the down stroke? Also is the drive motor turned off during the pull up phase and driven during the push up phase?

I don't have a clear answer to this, although I suspect (based on the Ramos and Terawatt units that the power output is continuous even for Ucros unit, provided there is a sufficient inertia on the output shaft.

As Ron pointed out in the above post - in the Ramos unit there is a sizeable inertia on the output shaft supplied by the rotor of the deployed generator running at 1500RPM or so.
By default the input motor on Ramos unit will be on and off, despite been hooked on all time. This is because of the steep torque characteristic of asynchronous ac motors (comparable to diesel engines). When the revs drop down the motor puts in heaps of torque, and when the shaft speeds up the motor stops supplying torque.
If the shaft overspeeds the synchronous speed of the motor the motor actually becomes a brake and starts to pump power into grid. Usually at < 10% of overspeed the motor pumps full nameplate power back to grid.

In Ucros unit the speed is steady - so the input motor is capable to supply steady input at @ steady torque. The  same applies to the output.
If this is actually utilized by the inventor remains unanswered and needs to be tested during a replication attempt. There could be some further tricks involved in timing the input / output because we know that Ucros claims he has managed to electrically close the loop and achieve self-sustained performance.
My evaluation is that the electrical smartness should not be a prerequisite for achieving over unity (but of course I can be wrong).
One thing is sure - the Ucros unit is less challenging to build but must be many times heavier for comparable power output of Ramos unit because it can only run at small speed. This would aper to make it unsuitable for deployment it in transport sector.