HHO heaters design questions

[ydeardorff]

If you are using pure stochoimetric HHO, the flame speed is supersonic
and you will end up blowing yourself and possibly neighbours from
here to eternity.

Pure HHO is VERY DANGEROUS INDEED.

You could mix in another gas, maybe air, but if this mixing process should
fail, then you are back on a death trip.

How are you generating the HHO? There may be (probably will be)a better
way to get to where you want to be.

Just like everyone else with an electrolysis unit.
Although, after 20 years of working in the military Im usually a little more safety conscious than the average joe bob six pack out there.
So my heater designs involve flame sensors, thermostats, auto igniters, gas flow solenoid valves, just to name a few things.

So yes hho is explosive, so is natural gas, and propane.
And they have been used for years in home heating. So why not use hho if I can produce enough gas for under 400 watts, heck thats a massive drop on my electrical bill. Even if it used half of what my 20+ year old coleman electric home heater does, thats a plus.

A torch is a simple thing to build so thats my first item on my list, then a home/ workshop heater, and so on, maybe Ill work on a gas cook top too.

after seeing this video, I have all the info i need to build my own system.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8igW-cxnDw

Part of my job was R.E. while I was in the military. So if I can get a decent look at something, I can usually build it.

The biggest problem Ive seen in the designs of what been made available on you tube is the output temps are way to high for home use as a space heater. Imagine your toddler walking by a space heater that has a 1000 degree output temp. That's way to high for anything to be used safely in the home. So Im shooting a bit lower on the out put, but a larger air volume, and surface area in my heat exchangers to compensate.

[Paul-R]

So yes hho is explosive, so is natural gas, and propane.

No, you are wrong, and if you persist, you will kill yourself.

Natural gas and propane burn.
HHO explodes.

This is because the flame speed is so great that effectively,
there is no flame front. It goes off everywhere.

You may ignite it at the burner but it will burn through the burner,
down the feeder pipe, blowing everything on its way. You don't
mention bubblers, and so the flame will burn back to where the
gas is generated. There will probably be a fair amount above
your electrolyser, and so that will get blown to smithereens.

Persist with this and you have enjoyed your last Christmas.
You probably won't make it to Whitsun.

Why not put the HHO into a petrol engine and use the shaft
horspower to generate electricity, and use that for heating?
(You will need to retard the ignition).

At least, that way, there is little chance of a wall of your workshop
being blown out across the street.

Paul-R

Patrick's masterwork will provide all you need:
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapter10.pdf

[ydeardorff]

Im using several flame arrestors, in the system, as well as many safety features, Im not planning on using a bbq lighter to start the thing.

And my cell design allows me to separate the gases. so if the HHO, is a problem, I can add the membranes and just use the hydrogen alone.

[Paul-R]

And my cell design allows me to separate the gases.

In that case, there should not be the problem. But you are
not actually using HHO, but H2 instead.

Don't forget that you need a sophistcated electrolysis system
or you will get not more heat out than the heat value of
the electrciity that you put in. Chapter 10 should help.

[ydeardorff]

yes, I am well aware of that. 20 years working with metals, 5 years on this project, and 3 of that in R&D has led to more time and expense than its probably worth.
I first have to finish refining the design of my cell, then flow test it under varying conditions (recording all data). Then Ill start with an HHO torch for cutting steel, then move into studying the flame intensity temperatures at varying nozzle sizes, flow rates, and distances.

Then on to a home heater, water heater, and cook top.

Should my design have a high enough flow rate, I may look into doing some genset tests with my two 5K gensets I have.

The whole move toward a car and getting better mileage is tantilizing, but I have no cheap car to test it on. Im not going to risk damaging our two new cars on an experiment.

Thanks for your cause for concern. I have more than 20 years military, heavy construction,welding, foundry, and various other industrial trade experience.
I do not take hho lightly, but do know its potential if mastered properly.

But I mean to test out every application I can to this that might render fruit. There are too many Naysayers, as well as BS'ers out there to believe everything you see on youtube, so I mean to test out everything myself, and as scientifically as I know how.

My test bench includes:
70amp pwm with frequency and duration adjustments, and intellegent memory settings (with 50 amp inline fuse)
electrolyzer digital temp gauge
reservoir digital temp gauge
A flame arrest-or between each item on the system (including bubblers)
A source amp gauge
An electrolyzer digital volt/amp gauge
4 power supply test circuits (a car engine start run stand, 240watt comp supply, 480 watt comp supply, and a 600watt comp supply)
A low tech 20 oz (591ml) bottle flow speed tester
An oxygen LPM flow test gauge (vertical ball gauge)
A large display digital stop watch
One large 1 gallon bubbler with air stone diffuser
One smaller one quart bubbler
An ultrasonic emitter system (to test resonance)
And one final oxy/acetylene brass flame arrestor at the work end on the line.
The test bench is also being fitted with an acrylic splash shield, and ventilation system
When mixing chemicals i use splash proof goggles, a full chemical apron, face shield, and elbow length chemical gloves
During testing and leak testing I use K2CO3 (potassium carbonate) as its less caustic than KOH (potassium hydroxide)
When all leaks, and testing have been accomplished then, the system is clean, and flushed then replaced with KOH for actual use.
Potassium carbonate, potassium bicarbonate, and sodium hydroxide can release dangerous gasses so my preferred electrolyte is KOH.
However, the real goal is no catalyst in the water at all.


My reservoir has a low level indicator which Im playing with tying into a relay to kick on an auto refill system via a solenoid valve

Again thank you for the warnings, but I am not the avg Joe here, not knowing what I'm playing with. So again thank you for your concern, and trying to help. Id love to explain my cell more, but I didn't spend 3 years developing it, to just give it away. Im not in it for the money, I'm in this to get the best electrode pairing, plate gap, cell design, and applications worked out into something as useful as possible.
Three years of studying chemistry, metallurgy, electron valances, battery design, corrosion properties, and a semester at ITT tech, as well as my current in process engineering degree, have led to very amazing discoveries thus far.

Im using a 1996 chevy cavalier coolant overflow tank as my reservoir. Although small, it is perfectly suited for this application. its internal baffling, and gas separator design works very well. The small capacity allow the cell to get up to operating temp sooner which helps for testing. As mentioned before it has a switch in it that I may or may not use as a electrolyte level indicator. For now until I know how it works Ill leave it unpowered.