Bessler , Karl I! The fat lady is gonna sing , haters bring it I'm not skeered .

[WilbyInebriated]

Willby,   why do you say Bessler was  "confused"  and an "outright liar"?    Do you have any other info besides what's available at Besslerwheel.com  ?

i didn't say that. i said in all likelihood he was confused or an outright liar. yes i do, try a physics 101 class...

In fact, it is not really his reputation that is on the line here, but that of great mathematicians and "scientists" of the time who witnessed the machine run and inspected it.  If it wasn't for such eyewitness accounts from such illustrious folk, I wouldn't have wasted any time on this.   

i see, so you're basing your assumed principle on a logically fallacious 'appeal to authority'. and where is the math from these "great mathematicians" showing how and why bessler's wheel works... what was inspected? bessler's 'secret sauce'? the magical box inside the wheel?

So, how do explain the machine outputting power to the water screw and slowing down to 20 rotations per minute from 26 when not loaded?  This demonstration was done not for a few minutes but DAYS!  The shaft bearings were exposed, no compressed air used, etc...    All this was performed in the presence of very skeptical folks with keen eyes.  The only thing they couldn't see was inside this light wooden frame wheel.  What was inside and what powered it?  Gravity?  something else? 

i don't. nor do i care to spend my time pondering on things that allegedly occurred hundreds of years ago. what powered it? probably a well fed koala...

yes it is, which makes this invention the more intriguing.   Recently I was introduced to the exploits of Eric Laithwaite, and watched the Christmas video where he demonstrates gyroscopes and raised a 40 lb gyroscope above his head "effortlessly",  and I have to say that's very impressive so I'm keeping an open mind.   If this invention works based on weights and gravity alone, it is because it is taking advantage of some dynamic imbalance, not static, although I just read that there was one wheel that had to be tied down so it wouldn't turn, so maybe it was a static imbalance as well.   very intriguing!




EM

no. it makes this 'invention' impossible... so how is eric laithwaite relevant here? are you saying bessler had a gyroscope in his wheel? and you know, if bessler was here right now posting his 'ideas' you would most likely be speaking to him the same way you spoke to stiffler and to mrwayne and to... etc. etc.

[EMdevices]

i didn't say that. i said in all likelihood he was confused or an outright liar. yes i do, try a physics 101 class...

Willby,  I can tell you don't do very well with probability and statistics, because you're very bad at judging "likelihood".      How can a confused guy build such a novel machine and impress the most critical minds of his time?   

no. it makes this 'invention' impossible...

well it apparently was created and it worked and it was witnessed by a lot of people, so why impossible?    I don't think there were any animals inside powering the wheel, you can do better than that.


EM

[johnny874]

Willby,   why do you say Bessler was  "confused"  and an "outright liar"?    Do you have any other info besides what's available at Besslerwheel.com  ?    In fact, it is not really his reputation that is on the line here, but that of great mathematicians and "scientists" of the time who witnessed the machine run and inspected it.  If it wasn't for such eyewitness accounts from such illustrious folk, I wouldn't have wasted any time on this.   


So, how do explain the machine outputting power to the water screw and slowing down to 20 rotations per minute from 26 when not loaded?  This demonstration was done not for a few minutes but DAYS!  The shaft bearings were exposed, no compressed air used, etc...    All this was performed in the presence of very skeptical folks with keen eyes.  The only thing they couldn't see was inside this light wooden frame wheel.  What was inside and what powered it?  Gravity?  something else? 







yes it is, which makes this invention the more intriguing.   Recently I was introduced to the exploits of Eric Laithwaite, and watched the Christmas video where he demonstrates gyroscopes and raised a 40 lb gyroscope above his head "effortlessly",  and I have to say that's very impressive so I'm keeping an open mind.   If this invention works based on weights and gravity alone, it is because it is taking advantage of some dynamic imbalance, not static, although I just read that there was one wheel that had to be tied down so it wouldn't turn, so maybe it was a static imbalance as well.   very intriguing!




EM

   EM,
>>   In fact, it is not really his reputation that is on the line here, but that of great mathematicians and "scientists" of the time who witnessed the machine run and inspected it  <<
Is this an obvious reference to Liebniz ? Most people over look him when it comes to Bessler.
Also, they do need to thnk about his mv^2/r=cf (centrifugal force). With Bessler's wheel, if a weight has 1kg2m/s^2/1m=cf, then with an inertial velocity of 4m/s, it is less than gravity's acceleration of 9.8m/s which means that the weights would still fall in the direction the wheel is rotating and would strike the hub making 8 knocking sounds per revolution.

@Wilby, when you're sober, read post #14.

@Thing, care to let us know a little about your invention ?

  @All, with Bessler, do believe he found pumping water to be special (a refernece to his "special weight" quote attached to Mt 20). Water does not conform to the normal rules of leverage a solid weight uses. If 1 foot pound of force is applied to a pump, it can pump 1 pound of water up 1 foot.
The distance the pump travels doesn't matter. It could have a lift of 12 inches for the water with a 1 inch drop/movement of the pump. Basic hydraulic theory. If anything, Bessler realized certain attributes of hydraulics well before anyone else thought of using hoses to pump fluids. 1700 was the very early stages of the Industrial Revolution.

                                                                                                      Johnny874   

                                                                                     

[johnny874]

yes it is, which makes this invention the more intriguing.   Recently I was introduced to the exploits of Eric Laithwaite, and watched the Christmas video where he demonstrates gyroscopes and raised a 40 lb gyroscope above his head "effortlessly",  and I have to say that's very impressive so I'm keeping an open mind.   If this invention works based on weights and gravity alone, it is because it is taking advantage of some dynamic imbalance, not static, although I just read that there was one wheel that had to be tied down so it wouldn't turn, so maybe it was a static imbalance as well.   very intriguing!




EM

  EM,
Don't forget that the Segway uses gyro power to maintain it's balance.
Of course, gyro's helped the U.S. to defeat Japan in WW II because gyros allowed for more accurate
aiming of our big guns at sea. Great stabilizers.
Did see one large gyro in Seattle at the science museum where it was slow to start moving but was hell to stop.
Still, they seem to be a closed loop system that stores energy very well.

                                         Johnny

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-hcpj1G1T8

edited to correct content

[WilbyInebriated]

Willby,  I can tell you don't do very well with probability and statistics, because you're very bad at judging "likelihood".      How can a confused guy build such a novel machine and impress the most critical minds of his time?   

yeah... those who were wrapped up in astrology, ghosts, bloodletting and such? those guys who just a generation earlier laughed at galileo? and it would take another generation before those same 'critical minds' laughed at sadi carnot...

now, where's that math from these "great mathematicians" you spoke of?

 

well it apparently was created and it worked and it was witnessed by a lot of people, so why impossible?    I don't think there were any animals inside powering the wheel, you can do better than that.


EM

well then it should be easy to build shouldn't it... why don't you have a working bessler wheel? look at what you do have: a perpetual motion machine 'powered by weights and gravity' whose secrets are now lost. you have no evidence how bessler’s wheel was powered, it could have been clockwork, or a heat engine, or a well fed koala in a wheel. bessler is an interesting piece of historical arcana, nothing more.