Why overunity MUST be difficult or even impossible to replicate.

[forest]

"Unknown" energy source can be in balance in normal state.     
For example ant can ride on elephant  without knowing it 
C'mon, you have to knwo what I mean , right ?

[Pirate88179]

"Unknown" energy source can be in balance in normal state.     
For example ant can ride on elephant  without knowing it 
C'mon, you have to knwo what I mean , right ?

Now, if we can just get the elephant to ride on the ant, THAT would be overunity.

Bill

[profitis]

Ant don't need elephant no-more

[Farmhand]

Interesting. You are right in that you do not have to know everything about everything to show that something is impossible, you merely have to know everything about one thing, which we do not. That is an argument from incredulity, since you bring in the concepts of formal and informal logical fallacies.


Since we are on that topic now anyway, is it not arrogant to challenge an argument and then end your short dissertation with an argumentum ad hominem?


Here is a 'heads up', so to speak -- You do not have a sole lease or ownership of logical, rational thought. Either agreement or disagreement are both allowed and encouraged. Both positions are often highly subjective states anyway, since in very few cases that I have witnessed have the positions been determined logically, but instead tend to be based upon personal bias and emotional preference.


Me stating something you dislike or disbelieve does not inherently make me arrogant.


Simple fact: The 1st law of thermodynamics (energy is neither created nor destroyed), as a physical law, only applies within the framework within which it was proposed (within a closed system). Application of this law outside of that framework invalidates it's applicability. Many scientist seem to have forgotten that little principle concerning physical laws, in that they are only laws within a very specific situation.


If any system is not closed, then the first law does not apply.


We also do not get the privilege of defining ad hoc what is, or is not, a closed system by definition. The definition does not get to change at a whim, or the law is invalidated. We also do not get the logical privilege of limiting the system to suit our desired outcome.


Any unknown energy source that does exist within any system is already a part of the system being examined. Our lack of knowledge concerning said energy source does not allow us to exempt said energy source from the system -- with either an argument from ignorance or probability. To do such is true arrogance.

The only truly closed system is the Universe itself, the Universe is everything so nothing can enter because there is nowhere to
enter from and nothing can escape because there is nowhere else to escape to. The Universe is a closed system and logically
the conservation of energy applies to it.

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[Farmhand]

ant is riding on the elephant , is that free energy ? 

Yes it is free energy, neither the elephant nor the ant have any money and so there was no fee for the energy the elephant
dissipated, no one paid for it, and it cost nothing to harness. Totally free energy.

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