Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap

[wattsup]

@all

If I look at this down the road, knowing how builds progress with time, I would say that what the EZ motor should include into its initial design right now is a way for the rotor shaft to be extended above its present level, via a shaft coupling, so that you can add some magnets onto the rising part of that shaft. Then you put coils around those magnets so that the extended level would now be a real secondary output.

Yes there will be some drag but the fact that the EZ rotor is pushing against some straw drag, it may be enough to push it over the top. hehehe

What I mean by the above is shown by an OU member @handyguy1.

He is just oscillating his rotor back and forth, but the rotor magnets are right on the shaft and the winding is crossing it to get all the impress possible. So think of the handguy1 secondary would be mounted vertical onto the EZ motor and the magnet would simply turn in one direction cutting the impress across an output coil.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HHQzWyLTBI
The thread is here;
http://www.overunity.com/3865/power-ratio-over-one/#.UaP5WpxqN2U

The reason I am bringing this up is because the EZ motor has its mag/cascading coil combo on the exterior of a given radius (would remain to be seen if the radius can be a variable) and the handyguy1 motor has its magnets on the shaft at the minimal radius and both of these together now give you maximum leverage delta to make that extra few volts that the EZ motor should be able to muster up given the straw drag. That's what I would call working smart to hunt for an OU situation. That type of delta in leverage would be additive in favor of the drive. So the EZ motor would be a simple drive motor and the handyguy1 type would be your output.

I think this shows how the Romero wheel was doomed from the start because the drive coils and the output coils shared the same radius thus having zero leverage delta. So they should use the Romero wheel in cascading mode like the EZ motor and use a handyguy1 type off the center shaft. There is no real other way. You will always have a fixed maximum torque but you can always vary the leverage point or in drag terms where you want the torque/drag battle to occur.

wattsup

PS: Forgot another reason for the handyguy1 type is that it is showing output at such low swing cycles.

[Farmhand]

Well Farmhand you could at least say it's an extremely efficient motor to run off such a small power source.   Just imagine a motor like that built about 100 times bigger running off let's say a 1 Farad cap.   Seems like that might have some torque.   Just speculating here but at the least it seems like it is a design that makes extremely good use of what little power is available.    And when things get really really efficient then we may be just a hair width away from overunity 
As for dielectric absorption I don't think that's it.   I've hooked up a couple dozen big electrolytic caps that ranged for 1000 uf to 50,000 uf and 16 volt to 400 volt.   All together they lit one small 5mm LED for just a blink.   The voltage may be there but very very little current.

Then you didn't do it right, the low loss capacitor needs to be pre-charged to it's rated voltage and left for some time charged, then just after shorting or draining in use the dielectric absorption effect will happen, some capacitors do it better than others, but the effect is real, no matter if you don't see it happen much or not. Your comment is a perfect example of disregarding a valid factor because it doesn't fit with the desired assessment of what is seen. If a large electrolytic capacitor is used then there is every chance the dielectric absorption effect is at play to some degree.

it can be as much as 15% for electrolytic capacitors

The voltage and charge is real enough to shock a person.

The voltage at the terminals generated by the dielectric absorption may possibly cause problems in the function of an electronic circuit or can be a safety risk to personnel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric_absorption

Once again I'll say I see usable amounts of dielectric absorption in some of my caps, but it isn't free, not one bit.

What is the load it is driving ? how much wind drag does it overcome ? What is the output that shows it makes good use of the input power from the cap ?

If no useful output efficiency is nil, nada.

I admit I didn't watch much when I seen just a rotor spinning and could not see any use for it.

What load does it drive ? What is it's intended function.

When someone build one and tests what it can do as far as powering loads then measures efficiency, there will be figures to judge its performance.

Any electrical device can run from a cap. The amount it draws will determine the length of run time.

I wonder how long Lidmotor's little "Penny" motor could run from that cap, or an LED with an appropriate current limiting resistor.

I'm not saying it doesn't turn the rotor with very little power, I'm seeing it does and probably the power consumption is so small that dielectric absorption could be a factor for it running so long. That's all. I'm also saying I don't see a spinning rotor as output as such, but the weight of the rotor and it's acceleration rate can show the torque applied to it.

The wind resistance reduces dramatically with less speed and less protrusions from the rotor.

Maybe I'll waste some time and see how long I can make a rotor spin from the charge in a cap.

To be competitive we need to know some things.

1) how much does the rotor weigh ?
2) how much charge is in the capacitor to start ?
3) how fast does he spin it at first to get it going ?
4) how fast does it spin on average under power ?
5) what is the brand and make/size of the capacitor he uses ?
6) what is the average continuous power draw of the circuit from the capacitor ?

Or we could just do what works to make it look good. If I get board which is rare, I might try it.

Is he using one coil to charge a cap for the next, if so it's a version or variation of the resonant charging circuit in Tesla's "IGNITER FOR GAS ENGINES" patent.
The principal which I showed a working motor using just recently. And is now a motor rated to 50 or 60 Watts max but is very useful at even 5 Watts or less.

The principal of Tesla's that I showed covers a cascade of two coils as in a regular resonant charging circuit as well as multiple coils in the same way which is just an extension of the basic circuit and any other iteration using the same principal in a pulse motor.

If it is that principal he is using it's a good idea and I wish him well with the research. If not the principal he's using then I still wish him well.

But the dielectric absorption effect can play a real part, especially if one is aware of it and how to maximize the effect.

I'm biased towards LaserSabre because he gets jollies from tricking people. And allows people to spread rumors his devices are OU when they are not and he does little to set the record straight.

I also understand he didn't link the video and start the thread.

Cheers

[conradelektro]

...........
What relays did you get those coils from?  I like those. 
Mags

Most parts of this relay (white coil) can be taken off with a pair of tongs. Then one has to drill into that little cross at the back side to get the metal part off.

If you want such coils look through the relays you can find, you want a relay with high DC resistance (which means very many turns of wire on the coil).

Some relays are in a plastic housing which I open with a fine hack saw (black coil). I also had to take off metal parts with the fine hack saw to get at the black coil.

The relay coils have nice metal cores which you can use or take out, depending on the experiment.

There is the question of using a core or not. I found that an air core (no core) shows interesting effects, again when low power draw is the goal.

Some experimenters want pulse motor coils with very little DC resistance (thick wire, few turns). I found that coils with high DC resistance (many turns of wire, thin wire) show some interesting effects in pulse motors (especially if one wants low power draw).

But these are my empiric observations based on crude experiments and crude contraptions.

Greetings, Conrad

[conradelektro]

If no useful output efficiency is nil, nada.   ......

I admit I didn't watch much when I seen just a rotor spinning and could not see any use for it.   ......

What load does it drive ? What is it's intended function.   .......

When someone build one and tests what it can do as far as powering loads then measures efficiency, there will be figures to judge its performance. ....

I wonder how long Lidmotor's little "Penny" motor could run from that cap, or an LED with an appropriate current limiting resistor.  .....

Or we could just do what works to make it look good. If I get board which is rare, I might try it.  .....

Cheers

May be it is all just a nice hobby. I see it like that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_ludens

Greetings, Conrad

[conradelektro]

I could do a first test with my LaserSaber 3D-printed motor replication (version with six coils and six magnets on the rotor, all magnets have N towards the coils, drive coil pushes).

Instead of a Reed switch I use 5 coils in series as a trigger and only one coil as drive coil. Very strange way to do it, but it worked fairly well. (The other way round, 5 drive coils and 1 trigger coil also worked, but not so well.) Each coil has about 90 Ohm DC resistance.

See the circuit with a 2SK170 transistor as switching element. It still worked with 0.3 Volt supply Volatge (the mA draw and the rpm are written on the circuit).

I attach a strange scope shot (see the circuit for the attachment points of CH1 and CH2). May be the experts can tell me what is going on. My interpretation: the current is not strong enough to drive the scope electronics reliably? The capacitance of the probe and the 1 MOhm resistance of the probe create strange artefacts?

The power draw is higher than I expected, the motor stops quickly on the 1000 µF electrolytic capacitor.

I will try 3 trigger coils and 3 drive coils and also 6 drive coils with a Reed switch, but it will take time.

Greetings, Conrad