Self accelerating reed switch magnet spinner.

[conradelektro]

@Conradelektro,


                        Try doubling your rotor strength, or striping half the wire off that coil. You're picking up too much induction! I advised you not to let coil face exceed three eighths of an inch.


                         Try just one wrap of wire for me. Just one layer, and compare the results.

I will do more tests by reducing the number of turns. But that has to wait a week or so.

The only way forward I see is that synchro1 builds a coil himself and shows the world how it works.

Greetings, Conrad

[synchro1]

@Conradelektro,


                        Thanks for the effort! You're an astute experimenter and I have great respect for your care and precision. I really have no way to gauge the critical criteria of your experiment without access to your test lab. I can see now that the proportions of your rotor strength and speed are way below the ones we use in the bearingless Bedini experiments. Your flux field is way too weak compared to the ones we produce with over twenty five thousand rpm's with rotors of many times the strength. I am sure you can get closer to the forecasted results if you downsize the coil wraps dramatically. The considerable coil inductance is overwhelming the subtle flutter effect from the core magnets. Nice try!


                        There are other experimenters who follow this thread who have the kind of powerful magnet sphere rotors Lidmotor uses. It's very simple to spin one up bearingless, and build the kind of coil I outlined. Good luck to the believers who care to put additional effort into this project.  

[MileHigh]

Conrad:

My compliments on your experimental setup, it's very neat and clean.  I have a few comments.

Note the two inductance measurements are nearly the same.  So that shows that the relative permeability of the magnet stack is close to one.

You are correct that there is no neutral zone and your tests confirmed that.  The simple application of common sense states that the further you move the pick-up coil away from the spinning magnet the lower the output from the coil. 

It looks like you adjusted the two different test setups by moving the coils closer or further away from the spinning magnet so you got the same RMS output voltage on your scope.   I am assuming that you also waited a few seconds to let the rotor speed stabilize.

Note that for the air core test the spinning magnet is rotating at 26.4 Hz to generate 152 mV RMS into the load resistor.  And for the stacked magnet core the magnet has to rotate at 29.2 Hz to generate the same voltage.  You also mentioned that the stacked magnet core was slightly further away from the spinning magnet.  Note there are two variables that changed at the same time so it's hard to be certain of what is exactly going on with just one test.  However, it looks like at first glance that the air core performs better as a pick-up coil compared to the stacked magnet core because its output voltage would be higher if the spinning magnet was also spinning at 29.2 Hz.

With respect to reducing the number of turns in the pick-up coil like Synchro said, that's not going to do much if you change the impedance matching resistor.  So if your current coil is 56 ohms and your new coil with less turns is say 20 ohms, then if you change the load resistor to a 20-ohm resistor you will get approximately the same results.

There is a misconception that if you add turns to a pick-up coil it becomes a more powerful coil with a more powerful output.  Or you can allege it is better at picking up energy from external magnetic induction.  This is not true.  If the geometry of the coil remains the same (but you change the number of turns) and you change the load resistance to match the wire resistance of the new coil with less or more turns then it will perform approximately the same way.  When you have a new coil with less turns driving a lower value of load resistance the output power measurement will be the same.  The measured voltage will be lower but the current will be higher and the power measurement will be the same.

How much or how little energy a pick-up coil can output is primarily a function of the geometry of the coil, not the number of turns.  The main factor is the cross-sectional area of the coil that interacts with the external changing magnetic flux that determines the power output.

MileHigh

[MileHigh]

Synchro1:

Take a look at the size speed and magnet strength of Lidmotor's neo sphere spinner with the two smaller neo's attached.  Compare the flux he's generating to the size of his tiny satillite neo inside "Maggie" satellite. Your rotor is very slow and weak compared to his. Your flux field is very deficient compared to his, and completely overwhelmed by the amount of wire you have in close proximity.

What you see in Lidmotor's clip is an example of impedance matching.  When the rotor is spinning and Maggie is far away and doesn't have the small neo magnet in "her mouth" then the rotor "sees" a high impedance "landscape."  Since the landscape is high impedance the rotor spins at high speed because there is no external load.  The Maggie coil doesn't generate enough EMF to switch on the LEDs so it looks like a dead open-circuit coil.

When you put the small neo magnet in the "mouth" of Maggie everything changes.  The magnetic field from the spinning magnet and the magnetic field from the small neo interact and start to mesh like gears.  On top of that the neo magnet itself is sitting inside the Maggie coil and that's attached to an LED load.  So the spinning neo magnet starts driving the LED load and it itself is being driven from the big spinning magnet.

What this all means from the perspective of the big spinning magnet is that the impedance of the "landscape" has changed from high impedance to a lower impedance.  That facilitates more transfer of power out from the spinning magnet and into the "load."  As the large magnet spins it feels some Lenz drag due to the meshed gears between the large magnet and the small neo magnet.

So that's the explanation for Maggie.   Maggie makes a small change to the impedance of the landscape as seen by the large spinning rotor magnet.  The impedance change is in the direction of the matched impedance and therefore more power is drawn by the "landscape" "load."

MileHigh

[conradelektro]

"Satellite Coil" slows down the rotor in a similar way than a generator coil and produces about the same output.

I did a similar experiment than Lidmotor http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dr85aHLmB1g , who has a little ball magnet spinning inside a coil (Maggie) at quite a distance from a spinning big ball magnet (which is driven by some drive circuit with considerable power input).

I used my vertical magnet spinner and my "synchro coil". I removed the magnet stack core from the "synchro coil" and put a 6 mm ball magnet in the air core.

At about 100 mm distance from the spinning rotor the 6 mm ball magnet inside the air core of the "synchro coil" starts to spin and the "synchro coil" produces an output.

And if I move the "synchro coil" with the spinning ball magnet inside closer to the rotor (to about a 80 mm distance) I can produce the same output as in my former test with the "synchro coil" http://www.overunity.com/13852/self-accelerating-reed-switch-magnet-spinner/msg380869/#msg380869.

An if I move this "Satellite Coil" even closer the rotor slows down till it stops.

Interesting enough the output of this "Satellite coil" (with the spinning ball magnet inside the air core) behaves essentially like in my former test, just that I have to do the test at a distance of 80 mm to 100 mm from the rotor (instead of a distance of about 20 mm).

My point, a "Satellite Coil" slows the rotor down just like any other generator coil. But only with a low torque and low power demand magnet spinner like my vertical model this is clearly visible.

People spinning their rotor with several Watts (instead of 15 mW to 25 mW) do not see this slow down, because it is only very small. But if they would measure the output of their "Satellite Coils" carefully, they would see its very small output in comparison to the power input to the rotor.

Sorry, I did not make any photos yet. More tests to come.

Greetings, Conrad