Lenz free generator + a different pulse motor!

[NoBull]

Which implies roughly equal distribution of the flux between two core parts that is not true.

Why?  Guyla's analysis implied approximately equal reluctances of paths A and B so the flux sharing between them must also be roughly equal.

And you can not directly compare magnetic reluctance to electrical resistance as the reluctance of the same region can change the moment flux starts flowing!

The reluctance becomes variable only when nearing non-linear portion of the BH curve (e.g. saturation) in the magnetic path but Life is Illusion's invention did not stipulate that.
BTW: It is possible to use a PTC thermistor to electrically simulate the non-linear behavior of the BH curve.

...as soon as the magnetic loop is being established the first path becomes more and more 'conductive' for the flux...

Why?
Because of non-linear relationship of reluctance to flux density ...or because of opposing MMF ?
If it is the latter then I'd like to notice that opposing MMF does not constitute reluctance, just like opposing electrical voltage is not a resistance.

BTW:  Magnetic "Conductance' is called Permeance.

[kEhYo77]

@NoBull

Have You seen TinMan's video I linked?
What are your thoughts on that real life experiment data?

[BorisKrabow]

Boris,

by the way, position C in your reverse Lenz - pic is wrong concerning field-polarity
When approaching ( A) a North-field is generated in the coil which is compensated by the pm
When leaving the middle position B , field in the coil will change to South thus amplifying
the S-field of the pm-magnet-> more drag is acting on the rotor.

Kator01

Hi Kator01  I'll try to explain without knowing English ))) . in position B Lenz law magnetic field in the coil max . in position B reverse Lenz magnetic field in the coil minimum (different poles of magnets N + S = min ). Position C Lenz law magnetic field is reduced ,appears inductive current that antagonizes opposite magnetic field . Position C reverse Lenz  magnetic field  increases and induction current has the opposite direction than  Lenz law  ,  that is why magnetic field of the coil promotes acceleration N + N .
    a similar principle in generator Kromrey    the greater the load the faster it rotates         youtube.com/watch?v=6OHxzT61nyU

[gyulasun]

....
Which implies roughly equal distribution of the flux between two core parts that is not true.
And you can not directly compare magnetic reluctance to electrical resistance as the reluctance of the same region can change the moment flux starts flowing!
So as at the beginning reluctances of both paths might be roughly the same, but as soon as the magnetic loop is being established the first path becomes more and more 'conductive' for the flux, that is why it is concentrated there in the end.

....

Hi kEhYo77,

I agree with you that a rigorous and precise comparison between paralleled electrical resistors and paralelled magnetic cores can surely reveal the nonlinearity issue of the cores, so in the paralleled cores the magnetic flux can divide unequally BUT I maintain that the difference is but a few percent (say less than 10%) provided the input flux entering the two paralleled cores does not bias the cores towards the saturation limits so the magnetic operation point on the BH curve can remain on the more or less linear part of the curve.

I also agree with you that as you wrote  "...as soon as the magnetic loop is being established the first path becomes more and more 'conductive' for the flux, that is why it is concentrated there in the end."  PROVIDED there is NO any air gap between the center core and the C core on the right hand side. I think the air gap is the explanation for any significant difference in the flux quantities of the yellow and the blue magnetic path I indicated in the picture taken from tinmans video, see the attachment.

IF the blue magnetic path would be constructed from a closed ring core and the two prongs that bring the flux of the rotor magnets into the setup would be attached to the ring core say at 6 o'clock and at 12 o'clock positions while the output coils would be wound in the 8 to 10 o'clock and in the 2 to 4 o'clock areas of the ring core, then there would be no any significant difference in induction just because BOTH output coils share the same closed magnetic path.
The input prongs would be perpendicular to the plane of the ring core, both would be attached to the side of the ring core with identical and at least as small air gap as there is now in tinman's C core attachment, the latter are fastened by probably with glue and two rubber bands. I assume that the air gap in tinman setup between the two C cores I indicated in red in the picture can be any value between say 0.06 to 0.1 mm.  This gap can already cause a magnetic reluctance value high enough in the secondary path of the setup so that the input flux prefers to choose mainly the yellow path.

Agree?  Remember that in the drawing made by Sam earlier in this thread, there were no any air gap indicated or referred to between the center and the C core.

Gyula

[broli]

Actually both of you are partially right, the flux is NOT equally distributed and it is NOT concentrated on the closest return path either. The answer is a mix of both. I already conducted quite a few of experiments and ran many simulations to convince myself of this. I attached some simple FEMM simulations showing this.
Perm. of core is linear at 1000 (so no saturation is possible) I tried with non linear steel as well and gave pretty much the same result
N52 magnet
And as gyulasun points out, indeed even the tiniest air gap will cause almost all of the flux to go through one leg.

To me this was common knowledge. What is not so common knowledge is the effect of the air gap between rotor and stator and resulting back torque. This is where my simulations broke down.