Open Systems

[MarkE]

Mmm
Mark has seemed to have disappeared.

I've been on the road for three days.

[MarkE]

Well even though Mark seem's to have vacated the premises,we will press on.

This is the first system(a proof of concept) to show how the hydroxy gas can be made to do useful work without any energy input needed-->energy is conserved within the system.

In the diagram below,you can see that we are storing the gas produced by the electrolisis system in a storage tank. Once the pressure reaches say 100psi within that tank,we have transformed some of the energy delivered by the battery into heat,and the rest of the energy delivered by the battery is stored within the hydroxy gas-->energy has been concerved at this point.

The fallacy is in assumptions about the distribution of energy from the battery.  The amount of energy that goes into the phase change increases with the ambient pressure.  less and less gas is produced by each J from the battery as the ambient pressure increases.

Once the tank reaches 100psi,valve A opens,and the piston in the pneumatic ram is forced to the opposite end of the ram.This is where we can gain useful work at NO cost to the system,as the energy is still stored within the gas.

Nope.  You just expended energy from the battery.[qote] When the piston in the pneumatic ram reaches it's travel limit,valve A closes,and valve B open's. The spring within the ram pushes the piston back up,and the hydroxy gas within that pneumatic ram is sent to the hydroxy heater(a gas heater converted to run on hydroxy). The energy within the hydroxy gas is converted into heat energy,and once again,energy has been conserved. After one full cycle,the heat energy out is equal to the electrical energy supplied by the battery,and no energy was consumed to gain useful work from the pneumatic cylinder.[/quote]Nope.  As stated before the fallacy is the incorrect belief that the rate of gas production is independent of the surrounding pressure.

This is one (small scale) example of how hydroxy gas can be used to gain energy within a closed system-->the total energy out is greater than that of which was supplied to the system.

Hydroxy(HHO) gas is used as it stores energy within it that can be reclaimed after the gas under pressure has done useful work.

It is yet another example of how a false assumption leads to an erroneous conclusion.

[profitis]

I Think tinman means something like this.extra work out is obtained via density changes in this case.column is arbritarily tall.you may have to include pulser along the circuit

[tinman]

The fallacy is in assumptions about the distribution of energy from the battery.  The amount of energy that goes into the phase change increases with the ambient pressure.  less and less gas is produced by each J from the battery as the ambient pressure increases.

Once again Mark you are missinterpreting my post. I made no assumptions at all.
The higher the pressure,the more compressed the bubbles of gas are forming on each plate. Each plate will continue to produce gas until such time as the pressure reaches the point as to when the gas becomes liquid-and we are no where near that point.
So i leave you to think about these two posabilities,and ponder as too which would be true.
1-the output of gas production remains the same,as the compressed gas= ambiant pressure amount.
2-The lower gas production due to rising pressure=a higher heat production by the cell.
One or a combination of the two are true-->but energy IS conserved.

Nope.  You just expended energy from the battery

Incorrect,as the energy has already been accounted for in the production of heat,and energy stored within the gas-->as you have accepted as being true already. Storeing the gas at pressure dose not change the ratio of energy used(input) to the energy converted into heat and stored in the hydroxy gas.

.

Nope.  As stated before the fallacy is the incorrect belief that the rate of gas production is independent of the surrounding pressure.It is yet another example of how a false assumption leads to an erroneous conclusion.

Please feel free to show us where energy is destroyed,and not conserved.
As i stated,producing and storing the gas at pressure dose NOT change the energy output of the system. If less gas is produced when under pressure,then more heat is produced as a result-->energy is conserved.
The pneumatic cylinder makes no impact on the energy stored in the gas,as the amount of gas remains the same regardless of wether the cylinder is there or not. The rest of the energy was converted into heat during the electrolisis process.

I am afraid you are wrong this time Mark-but please feel free to prove me incorrect.

[tinman]

When the gas reaches a pressure of 120psi(there abouts,depending on tank size),and we are able to supply the pneumatic cylinder with a constant 100psi,it will give an equivalent energy output of 8728 joules of energy at no cost to the system.

As has been agreed upon,energy within the electrolisis system is conserved,and this conservation of energy dose not change due to either a pressure increase or decrease within the gas storage system. A higher pressure results in less gas production per joule of energy,but at the same time it results in a higher heat output from the electrolisis system-->energy must be conserved-->the laws of physics states this to be true.

It is also true that by increasing the storage tank volume and decreasing the pressure of gas within that storage tank,dose not decrease the energy stored within that gas-as long as the same amount of gas remains within that storage medium.