Open Systems

[Floor]

Wow

It's aint "all over" yet but it's shure has been intresting.
Nice work guys (all)
               

                best wishes (all)
                              floor

             

[tinman]

     

Test results that at least superficially agree with 200+ years of thermodynamics pass sanity checks.  Tests that don't have that 200+ year hill of experience to overcome.

Unlike most,i would have to agree with you on this

If you add energy by doing work then what is special?

Because the work being done increases the net energy left after each cycle,as can be seen with the test results i supplied.

At this point the most basic part of the rig is still being shaken out.

Yes,i agree. And today i will be mounting everything solid so as we can obtain more accurate readings in a shorter time.I will also be going on the hunt for a second pressure gauge,so as we can check one against the other. I also noticed after doing a leak test with soapy water,that i do have a small leak on one of the bung's-->this would have actually been going against us a little.

If the tests are as represented then the second set data is not reasonable.

The only reason the second test is assumed !not reasonable! is because it go's against every thing you believe,and not because the suppllied data is incorrect.

If there is something you have not disclosed about the second set of tests, then having me run calculations on faulty presumptions is bound to yield GIGO results.

I believe i have said many times that extra energy can be drawn in from the open part of the system-the enviroment which surrounds the system. the first set of tests were to get a calibration of the system,and as you seen Mark,we were at 90% efficiency,and i believe that if the small leak is repaired,then the system will come in at 100%. This means the system is accurate,and will provide accurate test data,and gives us a solid test bed to work with. Im not much good at all those mathmatical numbers ,so that is why i have asked you to crunch them for me.I provide you with the data,and you supply us with the calculations.--> i must say at this point in time that i do appreciate your time.

The question does not make any sense to me in the context of your two fixed volume closed container set-up.

Yes,the two volumes of the tanks are fixed,but the end volume of gas increases as the transfer takes place. Here we have a case where the energy within tank A can do work without any energy loss,and the net result is an energy gain. To put it in a different way,we have a battery providing energy to a system,but the energy within the system climbs to a higher rate to that of which the battery is supplying.

The thing that makes this work,and is also a known and proven fact,is-->a gas flowing at high velocity can create a vacuum. This vacuum is what causes an increase in the volume of gas within the system at the end of each cycle.

I think Webby is catching on,but i hope he holds off until i have the system completed with the ram all setup and tested.
Quote:

That is an interesting approach you are describing,, now I think I finally understand WHY you want to use a ram,, tricky

Below is a quick sketch of the system that achieved the results provided in the last test that makes no sense Mark. Like i said,only energy from the open system(the surrounding enviroment)can enter the system,the stored energy within the system cannot leave the system. This means a net gain in energy. The sketch is just a proof of concept,and dose not relate to my exact design of the venturi i use,as that is one of my own designs,and will be staying with me for the time being.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wokswr_KHXQ

[LibreEnergia]

In the case of the rapid opening of the ball valve, the process being tested here is closest to adiabatic free expansion. In the idealized case the expanding gas does no work and energy in the system is constant.

P1V1 = P2V2 with constant temperature,  as you have measured is the expected result.

It's not a result of any use from an over unity perspective as no external work performed.

[tinman]

In the case of the rapid opening of the ball valve, the process being tested here is closest to adiabatic free expansion. In the idealized case the expanding gas does no work and energy in the system is constant.

P1V1 = P2V2 with constant temperature,  as you have measured is the expected result.

It's not a result of any use from an over unity perspective as no external work performed.

The word !overunity! is a nonsense word,and used by those who do not understand the source. In my last test,i show that work has indeed been done by the flowing gas in the way of drawing in excess energy from the enviroment. The end result is that we end up with a higher energy state than we started with within the two vessel's that can perform usful work. Done the way i have done it shows that the pressurised gas in tank A can do work (via the venturi effect)without loosing any of it's energy-->in fact,the opposite applies,in that the energy state of the gas increases because the mass of gas increases. The venturi will continue to draw in gas from the enviroment until tank B reaches a pressure of 5.2psi. The check valve then closes so as no gas can escape the system. At the end of the cycle,we have an increase in gas volume,and thus,an increase in pressure which results in a higher energy state to that of which we started with.

[MarkE]

The word !overunity! is a nonsense word,and used by those who do not understand the source. In my last test,i show that work has indeed been done by the flowing gas in the way of drawing in excess energy from the enviroment. The end result is that we end up with a higher energy state than we started with within the two vessel's that can perform usful work. Done the way i have done it shows that the pressurised gas in tank A can do work (via the venturi effect)without loosing any of it's energy-->in fact,the opposite applies,in that the energy state of the gas increases because the mass of gas increases. The venturi will continue to draw in gas from the enviroment until tank B reaches a pressure of 5.2psi. The check valve then closes so as no gas can escape the system. At the end of the cycle,we have an increase in gas volume,and thus,an increase in pressure which results in a higher energy state to that of which we started with.

Here is the problem:  You have redistributed energy such that some energy from the surrounding atmosphere ends up stored in the pair of tanks through a one time operation.  The entropy both inside the tanks and outside increased in the operation.  Absent performing new work you cannot restore the system to its prior state, even though you have not performed any useful work.