Can we demonstrate over unity energy?

[D.R.Jackson]

Ok this is what I have so far to answer this question:

Here is another demonstration of how to further things (see circuit diagram and simulation bellow), and try to answer some of my own questions.  In this version of my circuit I have decided I need somewhere for my AC current through L1 to go besides the power supply, where it creates an undesired current through the 12V battery (I decided to increase this voltage instead of using the 10V DC I used earlier) where C5 is added to provide this idea.  Furthermore D1 is used to block any AC from going into the power supply.

The result of this is the plot seen in the red for the power of V1 written as an equation in the software analysis as -V(v1_in)*I(V1) which is V*I and the minus sign merely inverts it into the positive plane of the graph.  The output power for R1 then is the green waveform
using the equation V(v_out)*I(R1) which is V*IR1.  And finally the power running through the transistor is the blue waveform which is V(q1c)*Ic(Q1).

What I did here is sort of intuitive, having had this same idea in the past but the wrong circuit concept to use it with, and fortunately in this circuit it has worked for me, now I have a demonstration that defies even my own expectations.  Here I have given circulation AC currents another path to follow instead of the power supply where it would only take power away from the over unity scenario.

Now the thing with this circuit is that everything is relative to the type of transistor I am using in the model, and hence its performance and so collector impedance, which means that everything in the circuit would have to be mathematically changed to use another transistor in the circuit, and so this is what electrical engineers are for, to backwards engineer things and re-engineer them with circuit design equations, so I will have to tackle some of that myself.

In review of this transistor I see that I am in no way exceeding its parameters which is good, and as can be seen the collector wattage is around 450 mW but as a small duration instantaneous peak (very small period) as compared to the period or duration of the 1 kHz wave cycle input to this circuit.  You can review a NPX data sheet version of this transistor using this link to an online PDF file: https://www.nxp.com/docs/en/data-sheet/2N5550_5551.pdf

Now I re-tackled my old circuits to see what I did wrong the first time around with the half baked idea, and to show why I was wrong by disproving my circuits. This only made me ask more question and conceive of experiments to use to cover all the basis of disproving everything. 

The the final thing we would have to do with this circuit is to provide a signal source to Q1 that is extremely low in power, in the microwatt range, or use feedback from the output of this circuit to create and oscillation loop to excite Q1 into oscillation and I have tried to tackle that somewhat recently but would have to spend more time on that. 

One thing I did not use much at all except in the output section was resonant circuits, instead I used high levels of inductance which explains using the 1 Henry winding's of the transformer on the collector of Q1 and the 0.25 Henry winding's on the output transformer.

I would say now, we might have something that some folk will want to explore and see how far they can take.  I will provide the LTSpice file for this model here for use if you want. 

[partzman]

DR,

The excess energy your sim indicates is being supplied by the energy contained in C1.  If you check the initial condition of C1 prior to running the sim, it will indicate C1 has 10v dc applied.  If you plot this voltage over time, you will see that it decreases as C1 supplies energy to the circuit.  If you then calculate this energy loss, add it to you input energy consumed from V1 and then compare to the output energy across R1, you will find the COP<1.

Regards,
Pm

[D.R.Jackson]

DR,

The excess energy your sim indicates is being supplied by the energy contained in C1.  If you check the initial condition of C1 prior to running the sim, it will indicate C1 has 10v dc applied.  If you plot this voltage over time, you will see that it decreases as C1 supplies energy to the circuit.  If you then calculate this energy loss, add it to you input energy consumed from V1 and then compare to the output energy across R1, you will find the COP<1.

Regards,
Pm

Ok that was interesting and so I had to check that although the software uses AC analysis on this capacitor and shows that it starts off at 0V and charges up over time.  Furthermore the output of the circuit is AC and any DC in the capacitor would have nothing to do with the AC output through a transformer into R1.  Here is the analysis of C1 note I am using an updated model I have been working on where the capacitors are renamed in a logical order so C1 is now C2 and this is the charge up plot of the circuit.

At the moment that this capacitor fully charges about 6.4 seconds into the simulation a 7.6 Hz oscillation begins that places a charge on C1 in this circuit (connected to D1 and L1) that increases the charge on C1 to 22V and then the requirement for power from V1 is diminished down to 380 micro-watt, since the circuit now has 22V DC as the power input, that is in the simulation I have for download here:

http://overunity.com/17603/a-half-baked-idea-re-envisioned/

[partzman]

Ok that was interesting and so I had to check that although the software uses AC analysis on this capacitor and shows that it starts off at 0V and charges up over time.  Furthermore the output of the circuit is AC and any DC in the capacitor would have nothing to do with the AC output through a transformer into R1.  Here is the analysis of C1 note I am using an updated model I have been working on where the capacitors are renamed in a logical order so C1 is now C2 and this is the charge up plot of the circuit.

At the moment that this capacitor fully charges about 6.4 seconds into the simulation a 7.6 Hz oscillation begins that places a charge on C1 in this circuit (connected to D1 and L1) that increases the charge on C1 to 22V and then the requirement for power from V1 is diminished down to 380 micro-watt, since the circuit now has 22V DC as the power input, that is in the simulation I have for download here:

http://overunity.com/17603/a-half-baked-idea-re-envisioned/

DR,

All your previous sims on this thread prior to my post #6 were run in the transient mode not AC.  The difference being that initial dc conditions are taken into account prior to simulation in the transient mode but not taken into account in the ac mode.  In regards to your apparent OU it really doesn't matter as energy is still required to charge C1 and must be taken into account.

For example I've attached two sims of your circuit with both taken in the transient mode.  BTW, let me explain that V3 is a zero voltage source which is used as a lossless current sensor.

In the first pix, C1 has an initial voltage of 10v dc due to being coupled to V1 thru L1,L2, and L3.  The plot cursor for V(vc1) shows that C1 has dropped to 9.9997311v at the end of the simulation which equates to a loss of (10^2 - 9.9997311^2) *1 *.5 = 2.689mJ.  The plot math shows an input energy consumed of 3.024mJ and an output energy of 5.397mJ.  Therefore the COP = 5.397/(2.689 +  3.024) = .944 .

The second pix has an initial condition command which set the starting voltage across C1 and the starting current thru L1 to zero which now allows the circuit to start with zero dc voltage or current conditions which would be equivalent to the start in an AC mode simulation.  C2 is disconnected to clean up the plot as it has no effect on these energy measurements.  Now we can see C1 or V(vc1) starting to charge from V1 and we see an ending voltage of ~4.362v which equates to an energy level of ~9.51J.  The plot math shows an input consumption of 43.75J with the output energy produced being only 77.51mJ. 

As I previously stated, you must account for the energy in C1 to arrive at an accurate conclusion as to whether the device is OU or not.

Regards,
Pm

[D.R.Jackson]

DR,

All your previous sims on this thread prior to my post #6 were run in the transient mode not AC.  The difference being that initial dc conditions are taken into account prior to simulation in the transient mode but not taken into account in the ac mode.  In regards to your apparent OU it really doesn't matter as energy is still required to charge C1 and must be taken into account.

For example I've attached two sims of your circuit with both taken in the transient mode.  BTW, let me explain that V3 is a zero voltage source which is used as a lossless current sensor.

In the first pix, C1 has an initial voltage of 10v dc due to being coupled to V1 thru L1,L2, and L3.  The plot cursor for V(vc1) shows that C1 has dropped to 9.9997311v at the end of the simulation which equates to a loss of (10^2 - 9.9997311^2) *1 *.5 = 2.689mJ.  The plot math shows an input energy consumed of 3.024mJ and an output energy of 5.397mJ.  Therefore the COP = 5.397/(2.689 +  3.024) = .944 .

The second pix has an initial condition command which set the starting voltage across C1 and the starting current thru L1 to zero which now allows the circuit to start with zero dc voltage or current conditions which would be equivalent to the start in an AC mode simulation.  C2 is disconnected to clean up the plot as it has no effect on these energy measurements.  Now we can see C1 or V(vc1) starting to charge from V1 and we see an ending voltage of ~4.362v which equates to an energy level of ~9.51J.  The plot math shows an input consumption of 43.75J with the output energy produced being only 77.51mJ. 

As I previously stated, you must account for the energy in C1 to arrive at an accurate conclusion as to whether the device is OU or not.

Regards,
Pm

I like the simulation but its still not the same circuit, you need to add D1 and C1 as I have it in the last circuit diagram I post before yours here, I would like to see that simulation and have a copy to run if that is ok.  But this information so far is helpful, please not that D1 and C1 in the last circuit model are a part of what I have been doing with this circuit.