Getting energy from asymmetry of the magnetic field experiment

[ayeaye]

Yes right, there is asymmetry then too.

There shouldn't be in the Coulomb model, that is by the Coulomb model, the energy at both sides of the pole must be always equal. So it is certainly a non-Coulomb irregularity.

"and at the end of the left travel there is a very big repelling force more than .4"

Yes, may be interaction with the other end of the big magnet. The magnet being under an angle should avoid that, like i had no measurable repelling force at the left side.

"Approximately, to convert kg to Newtons, multiply by 9.8, to convert kg * cm to milli Joules, multiply by 98. Like you had 37 milli Joules at the left side, and 29 milli Joules at the right side."

[telecom]

So where do we go from here?
I wonder if these vertical forces can be utilized as well, since they are quite big.

[ayeaye]

Dunno. Try to measure all forces. If you can put the moving magnet to the other side of the aluminum bar and the big magnet at the right distance from it, then you can also measure forces when the vertical force is up and not down. I tried to measure these too, but other than the forces at the left and right that i measured, i couldn't find any other horizontal measurable forces, that is not any strong enough to be measured.

Also, try to measure friction at all points, by measuring force just before the magnet starts to move in the direction pulled, and the force just before the magnet starts to move in the opposite direction. It is a bit tricky, and with spring scales i couldn't do that very well, with electronic scales it may be easier. Then you can calculate the real force and friction at any point. The friction forces appeared to be not that great, and shouldn't change the general result, but as a matter of accuracy they should be measured.

The most important is to measure overunity beyond any doubt. That has a great theoretical importance.

Other than that, trying to find ways how to increase the energy gain, and maybe trying to achieve acceleration. That is magnet entering the field with speed and no initial force, and exiting the field with increased speed. That is going through all the field, with gaining speed. When that happens, then that alone is enough to show overunity.

"I wonder if these vertical forces can be utilized as well, since they are quite big."

Mechanically it may be difficult. But say when the forces are enough to make a disk to rotate. Then a small axial movement of the big magnet can be utilized in an electromagnetic way, to get energy, without decreasing the energy that causes rotation.

[telecom]

Dunno. Try to measure all forces. If you can put the moving magnet to the other side of the aluminum bar and the big magnet at the right distance from it, then you can also measure forces when the vertical force is up and not down. I tried to measure these too, but other than the forces at the left and right that i measured, i couldn't find any other horizontal measurable forces, that is not any strong enough to be measured.

Also, try to measure friction at all points, by measuring force just before the magnet starts to move in the direction pulled, and the force just before the magnet starts to move in the opposite direction. It is a bit tricky, and with spring scales i couldn't do that very well, with electronic scales it may be easier. Then you can calculate the real force and friction at any point. The friction forces appeared to be not that great, and shouldn't change the general result, but as a matter of accuracy they should be measured.

The most important is to measure overunity beyond any doubt. That has a great theoretical importance.

Other than that, trying to find ways how to increase the energy gain, and maybe trying to achieve acceleration. That is magnet entering the field with speed and no initial force, and exiting the field with increased speed. That is going through all the field, with gaining speed. When that happens, then that alone is enough to show overunity.

"I wonder if these vertical forces can be utilized as well, since they are quite big."

Mechanically it may be difficult. But say when the forces are enough to make a disk to rotate. Then a small axial movement of the big magnet can be utilized in an electromagnetic way, to get energy, without decreasing the energy that causes rotation.

Yes will try playing some more with this setup.
The disc idea may work, since we can try using rotational momentum of the vertical forces.

[ayeaye]

More about friction. Yes there is static friction and dynamic friction. Maximum static friction is  us * N  and dynamic friction is  uk * N , where N is the force perpendicular to the surface, and us and uk are coefficients of maximum static friction and dynamic friction. Dynamic friction doesn't depend on speed. The Coulomb model of friction.

Maximum static friction may be greater than dynamic friction, though on dry surfaces there may not be much difference. But regardless, we only need to know the maximum static friction.

Maximum static friction is the friction at the moment when the object starts to move towards the sum of the horizontal forces to it.

We have two forces to the magnet, the attraction of the big magnet, and the pulling force of the scales, these forces are opposite to each other. When the attraction force is great enough, the magnet moves towards the neutral position, and when the pulling force is great enough, the magnet moves in the opposite direction.

The maximum static friction is against the sum of these forces, so the summary force to the object is always less by the maximum static friction, when the object starts to move.

Therefore, the force we measure is less by the maximum static friction when the magnet starts to move towards the neutral position, and greater by the maximum static friction when the magnet starts to move in the direction pulled. Thus when we measure these two forces, the real force is the average of these two forces, and the maximum static friction is the difference of these two forces divided by two.

The scales measures the force against. In the first case it is the real force to the magnet minus friction, and in the second case it is the real force to the magnet plus friction. Because in these two cases the friction is to the opposite directions. In the first case against the real force to the magnet, and in the second case in the same direction as the real force to the magnet.

When we know the maximum static friction at a certain point, and we know the perpendicular force at that point, we can calculate the static friction coefficient us, and knowing that and the friction at any point, we can calculate the perpendicular force at any point.

Just some basic things necessary to know.