Maybe possible idea for duplicating effect of Holcomb and others

[bistander]

Hi Ufo,
I fail to follow reasoning (and functionality) of an 8 pole innermost member to a 6 pole member then to the 12 pole outer. Can you overlay the flux paths on the diagram, or a section of it?
bi

[Ufopolitics]

Hi Ufo,
I fail to follow reasoning (and functionality) of an 8 pole innermost member to a 6 pole member then to the 12 pole outer. Can you overlay the flux paths on the diagram, or a section of it?
bi

Thanks Bistander,

Yes, you are right, and I originally had a six pole innermost magnet rotor (I still have it on a hidden CAD Layer)

However, the innermost PM Rotor would be the last thing I will build, and I was making it fit with the Neo's that I had in stock...which are 55X13X5 mm rectangles...and about same length as cores setup would be.

The ideal setup would should be a six magnets of the same size as each pole (of the two teeth circuit)...I know.

Nevertheless, the relation between the inner 6 poles static core with the 12 poles outer core, you do see the flux path there?

Thanks again

Ufopolitics

[bistander]

Hi Ufo,
So I was looking around on the web for existing 6-pole and 12-pole FEMM graphics. This paper on BLDC analysis using computer methods is very interesting. I will attach two good looking flux plots. These represent conventional magnetic circuits in 3 phase stators, both a 6-pole and a 12-pole. Look at the article for further description of the graphics. The authors also discuss the winding patterns. Just for kicks, I'll attach B H curves found in the article. Check out how the authors use magnetic energy.
Hope this helps.
bi

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Explicative-for-computing-the-magnetic-energy-in-a-soft-magnetic-materials-eg_fig10_3172035

[Ufopolitics]

Hi Ufo,
So I was looking around on the web for existing 6-pole and 12-pole FEMM graphics. This paper on BLDC analysis using computer methods is very interesting. I will attach two good looking flux plots. These represent conventional magnetic circuits in 3 phase stators, both a 6-pole and a 12-pole. Look at the article for further description of the graphics. The authors also discuss the winding patterns. Just for kicks, I'll attach B H curves found in the article. Check out how the authors use magnetic energy.
Hope this helps.
bi

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Explicative-for-computing-the-magnetic-energy-in-a-soft-magnetic-materials-eg_fig10_3172035

Thanks Bistander,

Yes very useful document, and of course 1:1 ratio of exciter and output would be the ideal setup, however, I see it works fine with a 12:6 ratio
Also, it should be considered the three phase poles sequence displacement spacing, when running.

Next posts I will show here simple diagrams, for easier understanding about what I am trying to achieve...

Ufopolitics

[Ufopolitics]

BLOCK DIAG FROM PREVIOUS SETUP

Hello,

Ok, here is a pretty simple Round Block Diagram that shows the "Gain Mechanism" based on a Trigger to Exciter Fields, kind of similar to the way an Exciting System of a typical Generator normally works...except we are not requiring a huge Mechanical input force to achieve our desired output.

So, We need to have a Center Rotary PM Innermost Rotor, based on a belt of magnets, set at NSNSNS.
Then we have a low input Triggering set (Yellow Ring on Graph) of finer gauge coils, wound as an Alternator, connected to a 3 phase DC Exciting Driver.
Third Component (Orange on Graph) are the Exciting Coils, wound on a heavier, higher wire gauge with lesser turns than Trigger, this is also wound based on the 3 phase Alternator winding type, and is connected in a closed circuit to three AC Running Caps of lower capacity (not intended to be fully charged all the time, but in fast charge-discharge "flashes").
And Outer end component (Green Ring on Graph) are the Output Coils, also wound in the 3 phase config. but with heavier wire gauge than Exciter.

So, here is how it "should" work out:

We start the trigger coils (yellow) by turning on the 3 PH Driver, reach desired speed that is verified at magnet rotor shaft.
The Magnets will rotate in sync with Trigger Rotation of the Magnetic Field, in order to have a more solid and steady Field when they are completely synchronized.

Magnet rotation plus Trigger Field together, will amplify magnetic forces and start inducing the Exciter Coils (Orange), and here we will be able to measure power reached at each AC Cap terminals.

I expect to get a much higher operating voltage (like 180-150V) at the Exciter Coils and a running amperage of about 2.0 to 3.0 Amps, once the operational speed of the Magnetic Field has reached the right Frequency of around 60 Hz per phase.

Resuming in short code:

(TRIGGER+MAGNET ROTOR)>EXCITER COILS>OUTPUT COILS

I will love to have a way to calculate all this data precisely, in order to have the right number of turns and gauge for each component, however, the basic main principle is disclosed here, the common sense indicates a plus-minus range of numbers to be used, like finer gauge and more turns on Trigger Coils, which will consume a lower input and not stress the driver system.
The Magnets are going to be Neo's of grade 35 to 52, whichever ones are available for a size that would fit in.
The Exciter Coils need to be wound with coarser gauge and as many turns as I could fit within the core.
And of course, the Output Coils would be wound with a much thicker gauge than Exciter, and more turns, as it has the outer ring core with more room to wind it, as it is based on 12 AC poles.

If I can reach the expected Voltage/Amps at Exciter Field, rest assured, We will reach a very high gain over our already low Input.

Regards

Ufopolitics


Edit 1: The Trigger and Exciter Coils are both mounted on the same ring steel core, however, this is based on fragmented elements which are isolated from each others with a non magnetic material (fiberglass in my case, for easier building of magnet rotor caps and bearings, which would be of aluminum (CAPS))
I believe this type of isolated steel elements will transfer the Field Rotation faster, more precisely and stronger than a full mass of steel core, which in my opinion would turn off the power of the Rotating Field, considerably.