Lifters are worthless

[TinselKoala]

I don't know if my analysis is correct, but here's a first pass:

The setup is as follows, from left to right: Left Stationary electrode, grounded. Rotating cylinder, floating. Right Stationary electrode, powered by HV source.

So the induction occurs like this: the RightHand electrode produces an E-field. This E-field acts on the charges in the metal of the rotating cylinder, which is insulated by the outer plastic. The charges in the metal separate under the influence of the stationary electrode's field. Say the RH electrode is negative. Then positive charge will be drawn to the region of the center cylinder that is in proximity to the RH electrode. Negative charge will be repelled and will wind up in the region of the center cylinder that is in proximity to the other (grounded, LH) electrode.
This is electrostatic induction.
Now, you have the rotor's center cylinder, inside its dielectric shield, having charges separated into regions of positive and negative charge, and opposite charges on the plastic above the metal. Since the apparatus cannot be perfectly symmetrical there will be an asymmetric force between the charged electrodes (the RH one negative and the LH one grounded, so relatively positive) and the regions of charge on the cylinder's dielectric shield. This asymmetry produces a ponderomotive force on the plastic shield which rotates it, along with its metal inner cylinder. Since the charges on the metal are free to move, they always stay under (or adjacent to) the inductors (the stationary electrodes). So the charged regions on the plastic will be moved out from under, as if they are being "squirted" out between the charges on the electrodes and the metal cylinder inside the rotor.

This is mostly all conjecture, based on my imperfect understanding of the devices I have built myself and researched. I think I am going to have to build a replica of JLN's motor and play with it a while before I am certain of its behaviour.

[flathunter]

Thanks for the reply Tinsel!

But I still dont get it....

You see, in the ''soda bottle motor'', the rotor is neutral, and the stationary electrodes opposite signs.  And as far as I can see, its almost what youve just described....just that you said one electrode was grounded, and the other positive or negative.  But the centre not electrically connected. 

But in Naudins motor the rotor is not only floating, but also highly charged with more than 20 kv (positive or negative).  Left stationary electrode grounded, Right positive (perhaps).  How could charge redistribute in the central rotor if its under such high voltage?  And how could one side possibly become more positve in relation to the ground, or to +20Kv.

I hope you do build it.  I recommend the kinder surprise and beer can set up.  ever so easy and quick to do, and very very fast!!!!  Ill get some photos up of minbe tomorrow 

[Steven Dufresne]

I did some exhaustive testing for any reactionless effect of one of Jean-Louis's Poynting Flow Thrusters back in 2004:
http://rimstar.org/sdprop/poynting/cdpoc1/cdpoc1.htm
They showed that the resulting force was a reaction one. They also showed just how much you have to do to eliminate the reaction forces. They crop up in surprising places and the usual sticking the device in a bag is often not enough.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org

[Pseudoscience]

Has anyone considered that lifters may work in a vacuum but actually need air in the gap between the wire and foil?

Has a test with this setup been tried at all?

Has anyone got any idea on this?

To me it seems you need something between the electrodes which a vacuum doesn't provide, what i mean to say is that a lifter may work in a vacuum but you need a self contained air filled space between the electrodes.

[flathunter]

Thanks for the link steve.  Very detailed and informative, but I still couldnt find any pictures of the motor.  Did you try his motor? 

I find it hard to believe that an ionic wind could push my motor to such high speeds. And I dont really understand how the mechanism of ionic wind could explain the rotation of the rotor.  In a lifter I see exactly why ionic wind is caused, and how it provides thrust.  But for Naudins E-motor, I do not.  Can anyone offer an explanation?