Is this the first selfrunning overunity motor w/o batteries ? Mike?s motor

[hartiberlin]

Okay, John,
I totally agree.
Although, I posted this scopeshot already yeasterday inverted, as the big spike?s highest amplitude point seems to be the cap voltage at the switching point and this must be of course positive, if you measure the cap voltage into the positive direction.
Or are these negative spikes rectified via the graetz bridge into the cap ?
Was this scopeshot taken at L3 or at L2 ?
I guess it was taken at L3.

Hope you will soon post more of your success.

=============================
As I just have seen,
there is a difference between unipolar and bipolar HALL IC switches !

The Unipolar switches at 2 positive Magnetic flux density values
on and off with a threshold between them
and the Bipolar Hall IC , which Mike did use,
switches on at a positive flux density at around 20 mT
and switches of at around - 20 mT !

I wonder, what this means to the motor ?
Does it really switch off at all then,
when just a magnet is waived by in the sync wheel ?
Does the Hall IC ever get a negative flux density then
Hmm..
Anyway,
A cheap replacement Hall IC is the Siemens
TLE 4935.

Here is the PDF File.

It can be got for around 1 Euro,
e.g. at www.segor.de

[hartiberlin]

hartiberlin wrote:

As I just have seen,
there is a difference between unipolar and bipolar HALL IC switches !

The Unipolar switches at 2 positive Magnetic flux density values
on and off with a threshold between them
and the Bipolar Hall IC , which Mike did use,
switches on at a positive flux density at around 20 mT
and switches of at around - 20 mT !

I wonder, what this means to the motor ?
Does it really switch off at all then,
when just a magnet is waived by in the sync wheel ?
Does the Hall IC ever get a negative flux density then
Hmm..

Well, hmm, to switch the Hall IC then OFF at all,
he would need a second magnet then to do this with the
inverse polarity !

But Jox said, he did only see one magnet on the sync wheel.
If the first magnet with a North pole facing the Hall IC switches it on, then another magnet must follow with a South pole, to switch it off....
Hmm, does this make sense ?

Maybe he did indeed have the unipolar type, which just
switches on, when one magnet approaches and switches
off, when this magnet leaves , as the field then goes to zero ?

Or how could it be done, that with one magnet only it will
switch on and off, when the magnet just passes by ?
Maybe by turning the magnet be 90 degrees, so the hall
sensor sees North pole approaching and when it leaves sees
the South pole leaving ?
Hmm, strange...

[hartiberlin]

user z_p_e wrote:

It does not appear that the Allegro A3132 is a very "close" replacement for the UGN3030.

The 3132 is about 3x more sensitive, and it's rise and fall times are a magnitude slower.

Both part types require bipolar (i.e. + and - flux) to operate.

The UGN3019 however is unipolar. Equivalent Allegro part A1106.

==========================================


My reply:

Well I just have reread this thread
from the beginning, when Mike was still there.

Mike posted:


user HMM
2007/02/12 02:42
My new relay has an LED indicator, I will give it a try.


2007/02/14 02:41 stefan,
As for the posistion of my flywheel magnets I will give that info later after I have finished my testing.
cheers
Mike


2007/02/15 06:56
@dom I get 2.8v ac spinning by hand

try it with just the main coil to the bridge to the cap and see how fast you can charge the cap to 6v by hand and let me know your results

Mike


=====

1. So now we know, that he got the "new" SS Relay after he
had already done the selfrunning motor video,
so he used for it a different SS Relay, one with a black
top and without an LED in it !

2. He probably used 2 magnets inside the flywheel
(syncwheel) , otherwise he would not have written
"magnets", but just "magnet" !

3. He has got about the right voltage to energize
the SS-Relay at all from the measurement Rob did now make with his new SS relay.
The question is, if Mike did not use
a different SS relay first, as it had a black top and no LED...

Regards, Stefan.

[hartiberlin]

Tonylab7 wrote:

Hi Stefan , if you read Mike's last post on page 20 , he was useing 3 magnets I believe.

I replied:

Tonylab7,
you are right,
Mike wrote there his last message:


2007/02/16 05:11 thank you Dom,

Lets build and then compare results
I am going to build another to the same specs and see if it performes the same.

When you get your motor to run on a battery, charge a cap off the bridge dc then time the ss relay to dump this charge back on the battery. when you get the correct timing the motor will draw little to no current from the battery. this will be the same timing for the moddified circuit. use three magnets in triangle formation.

Hope this helps

cheers mike

===============


Okay, now we know he used 3 magnets in the sync wheel
oriented in a triangle, so each at 120 degrees positioned
probably .

Now the question is, how was the polarity of these 3 magnets ?

Was it N-S-S or N-S-N ?
You always have one switchon point in the circle
and 2 switch off points, if you go round and round again...

So the first would be with 2 cycles:
N-S-S-N-S-S
and the second would be
N-S-N-N-S-N

So this would only change the duty cycle, which timing
would switch it longer ON or OFF, if he really used the bipolar version of the Hall IC, which needs
different polarity to switch off again.

But he said, when the Hall IC was broken, he was
"looking again for the 3030", which is the bipolar version...
So if North switches the Hall IC on and
South off, then in the first above case the ontime will
be 33,3 % to 66,6 % off
and in the second case the other way around, that means
66,6 % ontime and 33,3 % offtime.


Regards, Stefan.

[stevesrd]

Hi this is steve, Ive been doing some experiments with coils and bats. Mainly transformer type coils and single AA bats. Been noticing some unusual effect where the bats seem to charge up as they are in use but very slowly.
I wont give my exact designs yet since Im not sure what I will do with them yet, but basic designs are sinply coils usually those with three leeds on one side, two leeds on the other, wiring a transistor and a diode and to a led light to the three leds side. Which causes the coil to pulse with high voltage. I have even made one of these that uses the high voltage sent to a rectifier then to a second AA bat essentially charging one bat with another bat. In the bat to bat charger I Drained the bat I charged running a motor with it to be sure it was drained. Charged it 16 hours with my bat to bat charger and then used that recharged bat to run a motor for 14 hours. Seems to work. Also as to the unusual effects like I said using a single weak bat put in my coil pulser, the bats slowly charge up, This was not my bat to bat charger device here,,the bat can be seen to charge up either by leaving the meter connected to the bat as its in operation in the device and watching the numbers slowly rise in time, or by simply
testing it before and after use with the same overall reading results. I am using a single double AA bat in my coil pulsers.  Im assuming the high voltage is somehow self charging the bat to some degree since I end up with higher reading after many hours or a day or nite of use whichever way it goes, basically 12 hours trials so far. And like I said leaving the meter connected to the bat ,,or simply turning the meter on and off over time,,same difference I see the numbers rising slowly,,not falling. Anyway for those interested just give it a try,,seems to be many ways to wire it so the transistor will cause the coil to pulse with high voltage. You can tell you have high voltage by several ways,,one the led will light or blink,,depending on how you wire it,,since the leds I use wont lite up except with 2 double aa bats. But one bat will work if its powered by high voltage from a coil running it,,or you can simple stick your tongue on the two output wires usually on the other side of the coil,,which by the way will zap you but it wont hurt to bad lol. Anyway something to look into no doubt. Ive noticed a new bat used in the coil flasher device will fall in digits,,usually on the 2000m dcv setting in no time,,however once a point is reached
they fall no more if the device is wired correctly.. And if you use a weak bat the digits which show up low on the meter will rise over time , usually several hours,,on the meter to a certain point then level off, tho they may keep rising if its powered longer.Once they level off they seem to remain there no matter how long you run the devices/pulsed coils.. All tho I have only ran them around 12 or so hours so far. On a few newer designs Im working on I have been getting the digits to keep rising but slowly with the hopes since I usually use weak bats to see if I am getting any results,,to maybe reach a design that would fully charge its own weak bat up all the way. Anyway hope that helps someone,,by the way if you want to contact me,,send me a pm in messenger under the name inhabitor2005