New Choke Configuration. HV Water Dissassociation. (Low Power)

[passion1]

I am using the following tubes:
Material 316L
9/16" x 0.374"
1/4"  x 0.374"
Cut to 8 Inch Lengths
Gap: .06" -or- 4/64" (inch)

Dogs

I have noticed that in one of your waterfuelcell.org postings, your tubes were

9/16" x .035" 316L
1/4" x .035" 316L

Thus I assume, you meant 0.0374" for the thickness and not 0.374"?

0.0374" converts to 0.92mm and 0.035" converts to 0.86mm

A wall thickness of +-0.9mm is much thinner than the 1.2-1.5mm typically used by other
experimenters up till now....
maybe the thinner tubes also helped with achieving resonance???
just an observation.....Great work!!

[Dogs]

@passion, I am using the Lawton PWM version just prior to ravi's changes. I am using the version that has the 100ohm resistors before the pots (D-14.pdf 12st-Nov-2006).

I built it myself, I first prototyped it using one of those plastic circuit thingys. Then I built the real thing. I would suggest doing the same. The prototype is nice to have around as it is easy to debug and modify and serves as a backup PWM in case you blow you "real" one (in a case on a real circuit board), as I have done. Luck for me I have a spare.

Based on the Oscope Images, the duty cycle was about 50%. There are 2 frequencies, the PWM freq and the LC circuit freq (L:Inductors, C:Tubes/Capacitors). The LC circuit's freq is typically about the same as what the PWM is generating. But at resonance, things change drastically with the LC circuit. But, the LC's freq characteristics, voltage amplitude, gating, step charging, can be modified by slight changes at the PWM. The step charging effect is has been the most difficult phenomenon to duplicate.
Relaxation time between pulse trains based on scope images seems to be about 120us for the document (2007-01-01).

@ passion1, RE: Wall Thinckness
I measured the wall thickness: .06" (inches)
The specs say 1.22mm.
Which is about the same size as the gap that I end up with.
Sorry about the .035", not sure what that's indicating.
The sales man also indicated that it was really hard for
them to ensure the exact dimensions of pipe and that
one always has to account for manufacturing error
especially in telescoping applications (one pipe fitting within another). Also make sure that they know that you want a seamless tube.
The resonance you need to hit to get HV is the resonance of the LC Circuit (L=Inductors, C=Capacitor). So tube thickness should not be an issue.
I have also looked into the audible resonance of my tubes which seems to be 1.7k (capture ring and spectrum analyzed), and I don't see a correlation with that frequency and HHO production at this time.

@ Hans, thanks for the details re the invention.

==================================
Time for me to eat some crow...
The circuit diagram that you saw in the 2007-01-01 document was not correct.

You can see what it should have been in the attached document.

I have also been testing output characteristics of a few choke configurations. Not to entirely invalidate the diode configuration that I came up with, my current findings seems to indicate the the configuration as described in the Neogen (cruxwfc) document is quite effective and may be more effective than the configuration that I proposed.

I found resonance for the Neogen configuration at a lower freq than I expected. And most of all I found step charging. At only 1 Amp and only 4 tubes, there was so much generation that I had a slight misty wisps of moisture (cold steam) coming out of the water reseviour.

One additional consideration is that my tube may actually be (finally) in a primed condition. After a few months of "lazy priming" I got discouraged at the production of my tubes. I was being lazy and I had never given them a through disassembly and cleaning.
One day, I finally bit the bullet and cleaned them. Took apart the assembly, washed them with an ultrasonic tooth brush and had them soak in vinegar for about 2 weeks. Nothing really seemed to have changed with regard to appearance. I did not see any white coating that others have described. I did see that one inner tube seemed to have what looked like pitting. Like an ultra thin layer of the tube's surface was pealing off to reveal a grayish irregular surface. Took some mirco images and left it to that...
Then testing one tube, I noticed that production was pretty dam good.
Recently, I've been trying to get bubbles using extreme voltages, as high as 1+ million volts (per my measurements). Looking for that elusive step charging effect and the resulting HHO production. I found the step charging effect at HV, but alas, no bubbles.
Then finally (due to my laziness), I found my proposed circuit and high HHO production. And thus, testing more choke setups using only one choke and no additional HV transformers.

Thus other questions arise:
- Does the high production stem from the fact that the tubes are actually primed?
- Or, is it just that the tubes were never given a good cleaning?

And there are more experiments to be done with regard to choke configurations and optimization of the various frequency settings for optimum production.

Anyhow, check out the new doc.

I'll do the same experiment with new tubes, no priming, just sanded and then cleaned.

Best,
-Dogs

[Dogs]

Another correction to the choke configuration and some initial results.

Next, measurements of output.

-Dogs

[dutchy1966]

I'll do the same experiment with new tubes, no priming, just sanded and then cleaned.

Best,
-Dogs

Hi Dogs,

Thanx for all the great info again. I would just like to suggest another experiment if you are up for it. Would this setup work with aluminium tubing?
As aluminium forms its own protective coating too, it might just work aswell. If you have the time and resources to test this that would be very much appreciated, else I will do it as soon if I have my setup going....

regards,

Robert

[passion1]

Dogs

Thank you for the info and circuit updates!!