Power ratio over one

[handyguy1]

Hay Guys:

Earlier I said I found a half wave back emf. Well it was not back emf; it is the electricity that the driver coil makes. I finally found the second half wave. All it took was to swap switch 12 bb common and NO wires. The first thing I did was to hook the NC wires to the primary input terminals, but got negative effects. So I hooked the NC wires to the secondary device. The secondary device runs well up to a point. After a while both devices would stop, and not restart. I then removed the NC wires from the secondary device and hooked them to the primary input terminals. This time the primary device worked and pick up a small increase in speed. After a while, the device would stop again. I removed the NC wires and the primary device starts again and runs until the input cell runs down.

After doing this experiment numerous times, I concluded that the problem was timing. The timing of the switches on-off cycle changes with the drawdown of the input cell. From there I charged caps. The device ran smoothly but the charged caps did not add to the self-running of this device.

To learn a little more on the timing problems, I switched out one output coil on the primary device for a driver coil. The primary device now has two driver coils and one output coil. The device runs considerably faster, and the output from the one output coil is noticeably increased. Both driver coils on the same axle seem to eliminate the timing problem. I have not done enough tests yet, however the outlook seems good right now! The next logical step would be to hook the secondary devices axle, to the axle of the primary device, and run three output coils with two driver coils, all on one axle. Right now I am 50 minutes into the first timed test and the device hasn?t stopped and is still running quite strong.

I have also been exploring different caps and different setups for a self runner. There are several problems. The first is that I need to keep some charge in each cap. When the caps are hooked together if one discharges they all discharge. Putting  a diode and resistor between each cap ends up being to much resistance for the device to run. The results are a little straight upward movement and no spin of the magnets or the magnets turn with a great gusto, but only for a half cycle. When I hook the caps to the input terminals, the caps discharge immediately. The solution I was pursuing is hooking the caps to separate micro switches installed on the opposite end of the primary device. In looking for ways to make a self-runner I keep coming back to having one of the coils charging a battery. While I was banting that idea around I remembered the coil is double wound. I haven?t previously done any tests with the output coil split into two separate outputs, by disconnecting the one outside wire from the one inside wire. When I do this, I haven?t noticed any bad effects. Each winding is producing half of the previous total output. Now this gives me the idea of using both outputs from one coil to charge caps, which should give the caps more time to charge.

Well I am an hour and fifteen minutes into this test and the device is still running. The 20 LED?s just barely lighting. This tells me that I am producing just under 60 volts. The device just stopped after one hour and twenty five minutes. This setup is worth pursuing.

Well this is where I am right now. I will post again when I have something!

David

[wattsup]

@HG

Thanks for your last post; I was wondering about the back EMF you were describing. Good tests also.

We did not forgot you man. Just ultra busy with other projects, plus work, plus family, but I am working on a post and will put it up by tomorrow or the next day and hopefully this will give you some more direction on how to get this self-running, as I really believe the particular nature of your set-up is very promising for such an endeavor. I am also preparing (or proposing) a glossary of terms so we can talk the same language here as I think this type for swing set-up will be a major boon for OU.

[wattsup]

@HG

It is good you are seeing that the switching for a self-runner would have to be modified as I had also noticed this but only after doing the Self-Runner 1 diagram. I will try to explain it as simply as possible so you can catch the idea.

But first, I am proposing a glossary of terms so we can talk the same language.

1) Idle - When a micro contact is "idle" this means it is at its normal position when not being pushed down. That means the N/O is open and the N/C is connected.

2) Active - When a micro contact is "active", this means the lever is pushed and now the N/O is connected and the N/C is open.

3) Swing Angle - It is the total top to bottom distance of movement of the swing.

4) Active Angle - It is that small part of the swing angle that the contact becomes active.

5) Idle Angle - It is that part of the swing angle that the contact remains idle.

Now, the first thing to do is adjust all four contact levers so they are active at the lowest possible moment of the swing on either side. So as soon as the swing starts going back up on one side, that sides contacts are immediately idle again. This means two contacts would be active only when the swing is down on one side, while the swing is going up and until the other side goes down the contacts are idle, then the other side is active.

If you compare this with the present contact lever settings, you will notice that one side or the other stay active for a much longer part of the swing angle. And this is normal because with a battery operation, you need that connection to hold and energize the drive coil during it's complete swing angle.

But when you decide to integrate capacitors, these capacitors will now replace the requirement of a longer active state, so all the micro contacts need to do is transfer capacitor discharges which happen in a fraction of a second, just enough time for a contact to be active then immediately idle. Then stay idle while the generator re-charges the main cap.

In the following diagram Self-Runner 2 is based on all contact levers being adjusted to be active when the swing is at the lowest position.

So while in the idle position Cap #1 is being energized by the generator. When the swing reaches any of the two bottom positions, it activates, discharges Cap #1 into Cap #2 and into the drive coil. While the swing rises again, Cap #2 discharges slowly into the drive coil and Cap #1 is being energized again by the generator coil but this time in reverse polarity. When the swing reached the bottom of the other side, Cap #1 now discharges in reverse polarity into Cap #2 and into the drive coil. And so on.

The success of this will depend on the choice of the right capacitor values. I would go with a non-polarized capacitor in both cases. For Cap #1 you need something that is high enough to not create a drive condition with the generator coil, I would say a 100uf 100v. For Cap #2, you need something that can be charged quickly with a high voltage but discharge slowly to give the drive coil enoug time to reach the next re-charge. I would say a 200uf 50v. But I'm sure you will have to test with other cap values to find the best match.

Lastly, you may have to reverse the generator coil wires on their terminals as from my perspective, I cannot foresee the polarities as they are shown on the coils. This will only be evident once tested.

I am looking at trying this scheme with two DC motors and a cam with regular micro contacts. But not right away because of my current project load.

Hope this helps.

[handyguy1]

Hay Wattsup:

Thanks for the support. I am impressed with your understanding of this device, especially without having the device in front of you. Your ideas are definitely helpful. The back emf I was referring to is the electricity that the driver coil produces. When I disconnect the input cell and run the magnets by hand, I can take the measurements on the driver coil terminals and input terminals using a MM.  It is not very much but it is enough to run the secondary device. So this is another power source, independent of the input cell.

Last week I picked up two SPDT submini lever switches from radio shack (275-0016) for the same reason you presented (instant on, instant off). I have been contemplating setting up switches at the opposite end of the device to send a charge from cap to cap.

I?ll set up for your new schematic, and let you know.

David

[hartiberlin]

Now this gives me the idea of using both outputs from one coil to charge caps, which should give the caps more time to charge.

Well I am an hour and fifteen minutes into this test and the device is still running. The 20 LED?s just barely lighting. This tells me that I am producing just under 60 volts. The device just stopped after one hour and twenty five minutes. This setup is worth pursuing.

Well this is where I am right now. I will post again when I have something!

David

Hi David,
do you say,that just running it on charged caps you were able to run it
all in all one hour and twenty five minutes ?

What caps did you use ?

Can you please post a new video with all your latest details ?

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.