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Overunity Machines Forum



P-Motion und eine Version des Bessler PPM

Started by helmut, January 29, 2008, 02:31:01 PM

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helmut

Nachfolgend wird ein Design beschrieben,das von P-Motion entwickelt wurde,und
die Basis f?r das"Bessler Rad" darstellen k?nnte.
Ein kleiner Prototyp wird zur Zeit angefertigt.
Es ist nicht garantiert,das da? Design perfekt funktioniert,aber man arbeitet daran.

Der Pendeleffekt

Johann Besseler behauptete im 17th Jahrhundert,das Perpetuum Mobile erfunden zu haben.
In seinen Zeichnungen waren sehr h?ufig Pendel dargestellt,so das davon ausgegangen wird,das
in seinem PPM das Pendel eine wesentliche  Funktion erf?llte.

Deshalb ist im folgenden Aufbau ein Pendel integriert.
Im Grundgedanken ,wird davon ausgegangen,das es unterhalb der Achse eine Ebene gibt,auf der
ein rundes Gewicht ,von der Mitte weg nach aussen rollen kann.
Mit der Bewegung nach Au?en erh?ht sich das Kraftpotential.
Das Rad ger?t in Bewegung. Das Gewicht kann nur begrenzt nach Aussen rutschen,da es mit
einer Stange verbunden ist,die auf einer Gleitfl?che (zwischen der Achse und dem Gewicht)aufliegt,und
dem Gewicht die Gelegenheit gibt,wie ein Pendel zu schwingen,das seinen Aufh?ngepunkt (Virtuell)
oberhalb der Radachse hat.Dies f?hrt dazu,das das Gewicht von seiner ?u?eren Position aus das Rad in ein Gleichgewicht bringen kann,sobald die 6 Uhr bzw.12 Uhr Position erreicht ist.Das dabei ?bertragene Moment,soll das Rad um weitere 90Grad drehen lassen.Danach kann sich die Sache wiederholen.



wird fortgesetzt

helmut

Bessler007

The one undeniable fact about the Bessler wheel is this:  He claimed it was a real example of perpetual motion.  The fact is "his claim".  Any attempt to claim more than that fact has to move into the realm of faith and belief to substantiate it.

For example if someone were to actually make a working wheel (P-motion? :) ) they can believe their model is "how Bessler did it" and they can have all the faith in their belief they want but they will always come up short of having a material fact supporting their belief.


  • Nachfolgend wird ein Design beschrieben,das von P-Motion entwickelt wurde,und
    die Basis f?r das"Besseler Rad"

Any "basis" is not knowable.

That is of course unless they can resurrect Bessler and personally ask him and are assured he isn't lying.


Bessler007
Cmdr, BHS
mib HQ
:)
http://www.bessler007.blogspot.com
Please try again. If you come back to this error screen, report the error to an administrator.

helmut

@Bessler
The "Basis" is according to a experimental construction.
There is no Need to claim any false Statements.

helmut

hansvonlieven

Tach Helmut,

Bessler benutzte KEIN Pendel. Das ist ein Irrtum. Er nannte es noch nicht mal ein Pendel, sondern Perpendicule und das ist was ganz anderes.

Hier meine alalyse davon die ich an anderer stelle veroeffentlicht habe:

G'day Helmut,

Bessler did NOT use a pendulum. Tat is an error. He did not even call it a pendulum, he called it a perpendicule, which is something quite different.

Here is my analysis of it which I published elsewhere:

Hans von Lieven



Quote from: hansvonlieven on October 23, 2007, 03:59:55 PM
G'day Alan and all,

Regards the wheel at Merseburg, and incidentally the wheel at Weissenstein which shows a similar arrangement I would like to say the following.



If you have a look at the drawing you will notice that on the left hand side it shows the same wheel shown from the side. There are actually two pendula involved, one in front of the wheel, one behind the hammer mill the wheel is driving. Both are driven by the main shaft without any other connection to the machine shown.

The same arrangement is here at the Weissenstein wheel.



I have used the Weissenstein illustration for my analysis as it is a better depiction of the principle and a clearer scan of Bessler's original drawing (courtesy University of Goettingen). Only the colour and my comment regarding the centre of gravity have been added, otherwise the picture is original.

A closer look at the pendulum reveals that in reality it is not a pendulum at all. The two counter weights at the top shift the centre of gravity of the device very close to the fulcrum. This arrangement virtually cancels any pendulum effect. So what is it and why is it there?

It is my assessment that it is a very sensitive indicator of the balance of the entire device at any given point.

Like this:



Can you see the parallels?

So what was Bessler doing there? The answer is as simple as it is obvious.

Bessler used the device to set and adjust his weights inside the wheel during construction! After the wheel was built there was no further need for it and in fact in some of Bessler's designs he dispensed with it altogether though it is my guess he would have still used it during construction. A further indication that my analysis is probably correct is that in the earlier Merseburg wheel the device is much cruder in construction, indicating that Bessler was very much aware that the more precise the device the more accurate his measurements became. Hence the much greater care spent in its construction in the Weissenstein wheel.

It utterly amazes me that in almost 300 years no-one I know of has ever commented on this and that even today people that study Bessler still call it a pendulum when it is very clear that it is not.

Hans von Lieven
When all is said and done, more is said than done.     Groucho Marx

helmut

Hallo Hans
Vielen Dank f?r deinen Beitrag mit zus?tzlichen Informationen.
P-Motion hatte mich gebeten,den Inhalt seiner Seite mit seinen Setup zum Bessler Rad
in einem deutschen Forum auszustellen.
Hierbei handelt es sich um einen experimentellen Ansatz.
Er beabsichtigt damit,Besslers Geheimni? auf die Spur zu kommen.
Die Bilder (Skizzen)von seinem Aufbau werde ich noch einstellen.
Jedenfalls werden in dieser,seiner Version Pendel eingesetzt.
In der Beschreibung wird nicht Besslers Rad beschrieben,sondern die Interpretation von P-Motion.

PS
Mit der Numnmer 8 ist aus meiner Sicht eindeutig ein Pendel abgebildet.
Die Masse (8) befindet sich am Ende der Pendelstange.
Die Anordnung weiterer Verstrebungen in Form von Dreiecken k?nnte dazu gedacht gewesen sein,um ein
Federn des Pendels zu unterdr?cken.Dazu w?hren auch die seitlich positionierten ,auf H?he der Achse
befindlichen Gewichte bestens geeignet.

Gru? aus Duisburg
helmut