There is no Over Unity

[IronShell3d]

Hi X00013,

The energy input is only small and is just to overcome the Hysteresis loss in the unmagnetised ferromagnetic material that becomes magnetised.

The magnetic field which is "Created" in the new magnet is supplied by the 4 shell 3d unpaired electrons of the now aligned Iron atoms in the new magnet and not by the original magnet.

Hi TK,

Magnetic fields are just energy conduits just like a pair of copper wires are. In both cases, the energy is not in the energy conductor but in the prime energy source. In a magnet that is the 4 unpaired shell 3d electrons of the Iron atom. They are where energy is stored and tapping that energy is what magnet UED (Unconventional Energy Device) research should be about.

I suggest one way to do that is to tap into the H field of the magnet and not the B field.

IronShell3d

[TinselKoala]

Ahh, I see. Hence your handle.

Whew. I was worried there for a moment, but I see that it's still the same old OverUntried Forum that we all know and love.

Carry on.

[IronShell3d]

Carry on.

I would suggest no one thinks they can get power from a pair of copper wires. I mean what comes out is just what goes in, minus losses. So totally conservative.

Likewise so it is for a magnetic field. It just transfers energy from the energy source to the load as in a transformer or motor. So like the pair of copper wires magnetic fields (the B field) are conservative and not a source of energy.

As I have already shown how a magnet's H field can be made to do work, I suggest the eager UED builders here should think awhile about the difference between the magnet's B field and the magnet's H field and understand the B field is just the effect / reflection of the effect of the H field on Iron atoms and not an energy source.

Maybe try to think about how to get energy from a superconducting magnet? I mean we all know there is energy stored there by the power supply that gave rise to the perpetually moving electrons that then created the magnetic field. In reality a magnet is just the same, perpetually moving electrons, expect the belly of our young sun was the energy source and not some high current power supply, which got it's energy indirectly from the sun anyway.

IronShell3d

[TinselKoala]

The only part of that that I find objectionable is the part where you get the energy out of the orbiting electrons.

How can that happen without the electron's energy level -- its quantum orbital level -- decaying by a quantum, that is, a photon, of electromagnetic energy?

And how can the electron's level decay beyond the ground state, or go above the ionization energy, if iron is to remain iron?

Sure, you can use various processes to make an electron jump to a higher orbital or shell, and it absorbs EM quanta when it does so. The same total energy, but perhaps in different wavelength(s), that you get out when the electron decays back to its ground state. So the electron, just like the spring or the mag field, is not an energy source but only a store.

Now, there's beta decay, which is a different sort of event altogether -- but then we don't exactly have iron any more, do we.

(And isn't it the Sun, in your example, doing the work, not the H field?)

[IronShell3d]

Hi TK,

Yup the spinning electron has stored energy that was put there in the belly of our young sun a LONG TIME AGO.

And yes the Iron will change as it gives up some of it's stored energy and the 4 unpaired shell 3d electrons drop into lower and lower shells. However as long as they stay unpaired, the magnetic field will continue.

You could look at this process as momentum transfer from the electron to the load with the magnetic field being the transfer conduit.

There are no free lunches. Use the energy and you change the energy source. That is why I call it UED (Unconventional Energy Device) and not Over Unity, which is in effect, just not setting the square big enough to understand where the energy is coming from.

IronShell3d