The downfalls of conventional electrolysis - and how to fix them

[mscoffman]

Ok, here's how I'm going so far
With regards to the buffer transistor, would I still need the resistors?  And what feeds the collector?
If I'm on the same page, then I can have 1 NPN to bias the other 3.  My best assumption is that the collector would be fed straight from + battery

@niofox;

Things are looking great in the schematic!

Except:

A) you need to move the back-emf diodes from being in series
with the inductors to being in parallel with the inductors. Keep
the end that is connected to the diode where it is and
swing the diodes down to connect to the other side of the coil.
Wire will be where the diodes are now.

What these do is if the coil back emf drives the transistor side higher
more (+) then the battery is, the diodes absorbs this power to let
the coil get ready to do the next pulse. 

B) I'd try the base drive the way it is...If it doesn't work because it loads
the signal generator down too much I'd get the 2N6284 transistor
darlington pair that wikipedia suggested and replace the MPS
transistor with those...they require much less base drive even though
the MPS is faster. Have it so the transistors are easy to replace.
the 2N6284 won't require a buffer transistor. Having three different
wire gauges coil doesn't make a whole lot of sense from a magnetic
standpoint. A little bit from the EMF standpoint. And connecting all coils
maybe even in series to one transistor is a possibility. I just stuck
with your initial intention. You should try the puzzle through the hand
drawn schematic for that Stanley Meyer type cell I gave above
in this thread to see what they are doing. He's putting back-emf to
work, I think.

If you where to build it, a quick run thorough with an oscilloscope probe
would make sure you are not (a) loading down anything too much and
(b) the signals are not distorted. Then adjust the component values
accordingly. When one design something, one can do all the math carefully
vs. probe the resulting circuit to see what going on. It possible to do a lot
with a DVM only, but it would take more time.

:S:MarkCoffman

[mscoffman]

...
By the way:
The reason why I personally terminated my experiments in 2008 is not because I questioned Chris' credibility. Initially I was just as excited about the concept hoping that it was 'The Solution', but after working a lot with this really nasty saturated NaOH/KOH concentration, I started asking myself how viable this solution would be in practice.
Even if one get this to work, and eventually get an engine running on it, what happens if the vehicle is in an accident? Could one safely with 100% certainty prevent this solution from spilling? What is the legal implications if the solution spills and anyone gets hurt? This is really vicious stuff....
The saturated NaOH/KOH is >100 x stronger than the concentration typically used in 6 series cell hydrogen boosters and people are already complaining about a typical weak NaOH/KOH solution saying its "not ideal/dangerous".
(Note that I have built several 6 series cell boosters and I am not scared of using NaOH/KOH, but there is a BIG difference between using a few teaspoons of NaOH/KOH in a liter of water compared to a saturated solution!! And anyone that think I am exaggerating clearly has not worked enough with it yet...)
Not trying to be negative, just being realistic and sharing with you the reason why I personlly did not continue experimenting after my initial tests.
If anyone of you can make it work, I would be just as excited, (at least you should be able to use it in stationery installations) but still the implications of the saturated NaOH/KOH solution is in my opinion the BIGGEST real-time implementation obstacle.

@passion1;

This is why I think one should not consider the idea for use
in a product before one knows how to produce the result.
Once one proves that one is producing HHO with oxygen
and hydrogen in a (stoch.) balance and how many HHO output
liters per watt that is all that should be required of this experiment.

76watts per 1 liter of HHO at standard temp and 1 atmospheric
pressure is the breakeven point. 12volts@6amp can produce
1 liter HHO per minute. 1 liter input water can produce
like 1500 liters of hydrogen. Compare that with the specs
that were given... That is what we are up against. We need
more than Faraday efficiency.

First of all Sulfuric Acid is pretty nasty stuff too and
we seem to get along with it ok.

Second if we wait a little longer for the cell to come up
we may be able to have the cell produce the H+, OH- ions
itself,  like Stanley Meyer suggested. Even though we
may need some other metals ions too.

At some power level, at some frequency and
with some antenna design almost certainly
magnetolytics is possible. It would then just
be a matter of tuning and adjustment of
the electrolyte.

Also If your experiment produces only hydrogen and
no oxygen it means you have just dumped nails into acid
(actually, aluminum cans into HCl) and are getting a
chemical reaction that absorbs oxygen and binds it to
the metal in the electrolyte to produce the extra energy...
that is no good. We need the real thing.


:S:MarkSCoffman

[ramset]

Jesus
Quote
If you have a circuit for a single coil?
-----------------------------------------------
First let me thank you for your presence here
You are a selfless open source engineer ,that works tirelessly for this cause!

I will try to find out if this circuit can be modified/used with one coil or a different configuration is suggested.

Exx another selfless experimenter/open source engineer,

A good crowd of men showing up here!
Workers,builders,experimenters.
This is starting to feel real good fellows!!

great stuff!

Perhaps this time will be different Chris?

Chet

PS
5 watts  5 minutes  1 gallon of water into gas

[niofox]

@mscoffman

Ok, I think I got a bit too far ahead of myself
I believe that I understand a lot of what you've taught me here so far and I will be pondering on it all as I go, but I'm thinking maybe I need to starting off a bit simpler with a 1 coil design

Since you mentioned re-using back EMF it so happens that my best experience with that is Bedini's stuff
I have all the duplicate components from my Bedini rigs and I figured I could re-use them here

This is essentially where the idea for running multiple test setups in the same circuit came in
I just decided to start from scratch in my previous posts for some reason
I will try to work in multiple later when I have more bench experience with the SigGen addition to the whole thing

I will definitely look up the suggestions you made.  It'll still be a week yet before the SigGen arrives, so I've got plenty time.
Meanwhile does this look like a successful setup?

[niofox]

Darlington Power Amplifier
http://www.nteinc.com/specs/200to299/pdf/nte251.pdf
500ma Base Current
vs
http://www.nteinc.com/specs/2600to2699/pdf/nte2670_71.pdf
5A Base Current

Is that what I'm comparing?

They only sell NTE locally
Hopefully they have these in stock