Any proof?

[ltseung888]

So, i did a bit of searching. I'll have to check for those BMP+CSV, but my HW-colleague just obtained new oscilloscope/analyzer which seems to have these functions (it will take at least a week before I can return to my job-place/room).

P=U*I no doubt, but Joule Thief produces high spikes, right? Oscilloscope/analyzer has its limits as sampling frequency.
Isn't this all a problem of measurement?

Has anybody ever measured total input power (during the process of creation) and total output power
and proved, that measured total output power was greater than total input power ever put into it during the whole process?
This could be done by using three batteries, charge one, use it to start it up, recharge two empty batteries from it and the proof is done.

P.S.: Please, do not treat my reactions as "Hey, you stupid, this can never work!" but as "I appreciate your work and time, but my time is limited too and I have to do some selection first, Thank you".

You are right in quoting the battery charger.  Please go to the excellent on-line book by Patrick Kelly.  http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/

In Chapter 5, he described my FLEET device â€" even better than I could.  He already applied it to produce battery chargers. 

You can also read the huge Joule Thief Thread in this forum.  Many have done the battery charging operation but few have good oscilloscopes to do the Power Measurements.

Once you mastered the oscilloscope measurement technique, you could then build the FLEET prototypes and tune them to achieve COP >1.

If for any reason, your FLEET prototypes fail to achieve COP > 1, I shall help you to tune once you have the bmp and csv files.  As I mentioned, as a last resort, I could send you a tuned FLEET prototype.  The only requirement is that you disclose the detailed testing information openly on the Internet so that all can benefit.
May you become one of the Servers of the Divine Wine

[firda]

Thank you, I finally see that I AM in good hands.

[void109]

Hi Firda,


Strangely, I too am a software engineer that got sucked into these forums years ago, first lurking, then posting and finally building myself.  To date, and I still lurk, I have seen no definitive proof, but there are several projects floating about that have yet to be 'debunked'.  I stopped building maybe half of a year ago, feeling a bit disillusioned.  But it's been a wonderful learning experience.


The notions presented above are one of those hopeful projects I was referring to - the data so far is compelling.  If you are replicating yourself and are new to working with electrical test equipment, as I was, be cautious when using oscilloscopes to test the circuits presented in these forums, as they often produce high frequency high voltage outputs and you can easily damage your oscilloscope.  Both of mine have rated voltages of 600 volts, so I have had to be creative with a lot of measurements.


I only posted because I saw you were going to get your hands on a scope, and I recalled destroying my first scope, and wanted to see if I could head that off for you.

[ltseung888]

Hi Firda,


Strangely, I too am a software engineer that got sucked into these forums years ago, first lurking, then posting and finally building myself.  To date, and I still lurk, I have seen no definitive proof, but there are several projects floating about that have yet to be 'debunked'.  I stopped building maybe half of a year ago, feeling a bit disillusioned.  But it's been a wonderful learning experience.


The notions presented above are one of those hopeful projects I was referring to - the data so far is compelling.  If you are replicating yourself and are new to working with electrical test equipment, as I was, be cautious when using oscilloscopes to test the circuits presented in these forums, as they often produce high frequency high voltage outputs and you can easily damage your oscilloscope.  Both of mine have rated voltages of 600 volts, so I have had to be creative with a lot of measurements.


I only posted because I saw you were going to get your hands on a scope, and I recalled destroying my first scope, and wanted to see if I could head that off for you.

Good point.  You have to understand and protect your oscilloscope.  Do the following:
1.    Use low sensitivity initially (scope probes can be set to 10X or 1X etc.).  I used 10X at the beginning.
2.    Build the basic Joule Thief with the 2N2222 and 3 V LEDs first.  The Output Voltage should be less than 10V as shown in the AC setting of the Oscilloscope.  Do not get into the over 100V range.  You can first use a cheap multimeter to check the Output Voltage.
3.    The shape of the Output Power Curve will tell you quite a lot.  If you are close to or at some kind of resonance, you will see standing waves.  That is evidence of resonance.  For all cases of standing waves, my measurements indicated COP > 1 from the accurate average power values.
4.    Use  the high sensitivity (exposing the oscilloscope to potential harm) only after you have obtained the rough estimates. 
5.    I once got into over 1000V and burnt all electronics.  I was lucky â€" the measuring instrument blew an internal fuse and cost me only $50 to get it fixed.
There is much to learn and take all precautions.

[SchubertReijiMaigo]

Another "problem" with scope it's they're all grounded, with a frequency generator you can have short circuit.


The best to measure anything it's a differential scope, not grounded one...
But it cost much more than standard one...


I have few surprise when working with a frequencies generator, but fortunately not burned my scope (a DSO 2090 USB)...