Bessler , Karl I! The fat lady is gonna sing , haters bring it I'm not skeered .

[WilbyInebriated]

again with the logical fallacies... 

so how is a mathematician and philosopher suddenly an expert on mechanical engineering?

[johnny874]

again with the logical fallacies... 

so how is a mathematician and philosopher suddenly an expert on mechanical engineering?

Wilby,
You really are lost, aren't you ? He was a contemporary of Newton's. he is also called the Father of Modern Science.
You know, Brown, Planck, Heisenberg, Einstein, et al ? You are aware of this, aren't you ?
It was his observation that a mass in motion had more energy than f =ma which is how he discovered vis viva. This lead to mv^2 and was a break from classical physics, ie. Newton.
because of his place in the scholarly community, he had a great deal to lose by supporting a fraud. Another link to Leibniz folks. Sometimes, it does help to understand the times a person lived in to understand their work .http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gottfried_Wilhelm_Leibniz
With Bessler, he was 7 years old when Newton wrote his the Principia (  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophi%C3%A6_Naturalis_Principia_Mathematica ) which young Bessler was most likely exposed to.

by the way Wilby, you don't seem to know much about mechanical engineering yourself yet wish to say that pumping water violates the laws of physics. But with 2 quick of a pace, people might not have time to understand what was involved with Bessler's wheel. myself, i think you're missing a good deal of it yourself because while you have many questions, you don't take time to consider the answers. Why not accept that you are wrong and let those of us who want to discuss Bessler's work do so ?
One last word about Leibniz, he is a famous mathematician. I think his observation is credible.
                             
                                                                                                                               Johnny
 

[WilbyInebriated]

  Wilby,
You really are lost, aren't you ? He was a contemporary of Newton's. he is also called the Father of Modern Science.
You know, Brown, Planck, Heisenberg, Einstein, et al ? You are aware of this, aren't you ?
It was his observation that a mass in motion had more energy than f =ma which is how he discovered vis viva. This lead to mv^2 and was  abreak from classical physics, ie. Newton.
because of his place in the scholarly community, he had a great deal to lose by supporting a fraud. Another link to Leibniz folks. Sometimes, it does help to understand the times a person lived in to understand their work.
With bessler, he was 7 years old when newton wrote his the Principia (  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophi%C3%A6_Naturalis_Principia_Mathematica ) which young Bessler was most likely exposed to.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gottfried_Wilhelm_Leibniz
by the way Wilby, you don't seem to know much about mechanical engineering yourself yet wish to say that pumping water violates the laws of physics. But with 2 quick of a pace, people might not have time to understand what was involved with Bessler's wheel. myself, i think you're missing a good deal of it yourself because while you have many questions, you don't take time to consider the answers. Why not accept that you are wrong and let those of us who want to discuss Bessler's work do so ?
One last word about Leibniz, he is a famous mathematician. I think his observation is credible.
                             
                                                                                                                               Johnny

LOL yeah... i know who leibniz is. i just wanted to see how far you are willing to go to sell your fallacy.

one last time for the cheap seats... the writings and opinions of leibniz are no more relevant to the authenticity of bessler's claim than the bible is relevant to the authenticity of gawd... which is exactly why you have been compared to christians.

and i didn't say anything about pumping water violating the laws of physics... i said perpetual motion gravity wheels using weights violate the laws of physics. don't post lies about what i have said.

[johnny874]

my "repeated questioning" is because you keep posting math as if it demonstrates the feasibility of this wheel. it's because you commit logical fallacies like appeals to authority with your comments about leibniz... who never even witnessed bessler's wheel. and it's really more of a rhetorical question...

do you even know how andreas gärtner replicated bessler's 'locked room' hoax? do you even know what other bessler 'successes' he replicated and demonstrated to be trickery? don't you think you maybe should?

>>  my "repeated questioning" is because you keep posting math as if it demonstrates the feasibility of this wheel  <<
It does show the feasability of his wheel. When pendulums swing, their fuclrums have the torque equal to mdv or mass times distance times velocity. This torque which is not used is wholly capapble of performing work.
  This is why it is called FREE ENERGY. If this principle is used to jack up a car, it is called hydraulics.
With my hydraulic floor jack, I can lift 4,000 lbs. or 2 tons. I am simply not that strong.  the same principle is used in Bessler's wheel. A weighted lever can move or pump a fluid with more weight a greater distance than it moves. This violated the contemporary work = mass times distance or w =md. This is because a liquid can be displaced. Because of this, a 2 lb. (1kg) weight can drop 10 inches (25 cm's) and pump a fluid weighing 4 lbs. (2kg's) up to a height of 10 inches (25 cm's).
I think once people understand this is where the laws of physcis get violated, then they'll start understanding how special bessler's wheel really is. It's just that no one has thought of using a fluid to achieve over unity but it is wholly possible.

                                                                                                                             Johnny         

edited to add; Wilby, if a lever 11.54 inches long dropped from 15 degrees above the fulcrum to 15 degrees belwo it, it would drop 10 inches. With a 2 lb. weight, it would develop almost 2 ft. lbs. of force. @ 23 inches and a 10 inch drop, it would have almost 4 ft. lbs. of force. This is without inertia increasing it's potential.
Still, with classical mechanics, they would say that equal motion would be required and that would mean that the weight on the lever would have to drop the same distance as the the height gained by the weight being lifted.

edited to add; Wilby, like I said, your running of the mouth is old. You just make the vaguest statements and hope something you can hang your hat on hits. I think people like you who refuse to discuss anything should be BANNED.
I am going to ask Stefan if maybe he can talk to you.

[WilbyInebriated]

>>  my "repeated questioning" is because you keep posting math as if it demonstrates the feasibility of this wheel  <<
It does show the feasability of his wheel. When pendulums swing, their fuclrums have the torque equal to mdv or mass times distance times velocity. This torque which is not used is wholly capapble of performing work.
  This is why it is called FREE ENERGY. If this principle is used to jack up a car, it is called hydraulics.
With my hydraulic floor jack, I can lift 4,000 lbs. or 2 tons. I am simply not that strong.  the same principle is used in Bessler's wheel. A weighted lever can move or pump a fluid with more weight a greater distance than it moves. This violated the contemporary work = mass times distance or w =md. This is because a liquid can be displaced. Because of this, a 2 lb. (1kg) weight can drop 10 inches (25 cm's) and pump a fluid weighing 4 lbs. (2kg's) up to a height of 10 inches (25 cm's).
I think once people understand this is where the laws of physcis get violated, then they'll start understanding how special bessler's wheel really is. It's just that no one has thought of using a fluid to achieve over unity but it is wholly possible.

                                                                                                                             Johnny         

oh gawd... here we go again...
the principle of hydraulics is FREE ENERGY. ok... so then it should be easy to build a working wheel... WHERE IS IT?


interestingly enough there is a way to use water to make a wheel turn with no 'apparent' input... that would also provide a considerable amount of torque in a wheel the size of bessler's.